Mall - Ep25 - Factorio Expand-a-Base

  Рет қаралды 425

MysticFish

MysticFish

Ай бұрын

In this episode, we give a tour of our mall, including some circuitry for adding construction and logistics bots when needed.
Blueprints: factoriobin.com/post/QqDu9cQ2

Пікірлер: 27
@Jester121680
@Jester121680 Ай бұрын
Been waiting for this one!
@Pystro
@Pystro Ай бұрын
When I first saw that bundle of logic in the corner I thought you had done something cool and made an "are we ready to expand" analyzer. That wouldn't be too hard: A The final goal would be a "this is how many ingredients we're missing" signal (which you could display on a progress bar made from lamps): You get it by summing 1 for every less-than-zero signal on the "this is how many items we're waiting for" wire. B The "this is how many items we're waiting for" wire is the "sum of all items in chests" count plus "this is how many items we should have" signals (negative). If you want to ever look at it, you may want to filter it for only negative values. C The "this is how many items we should have" signals are essentially a "this is how many we can ever craft" (negative) signal, but slightly modified by adding "these items look uncraftable" (positive) signals (and _optionally_ feeding their sum through a filter that only allows negative signals through). D The "these items look uncraftable" (positive) signal wire is the sum of a "this is how many we can ever craft" (positive) signal wire and a "WE'VE SEEN THIS" (negative) signal wire, fed through a filter that lets only positive signals through. E The "WE'VE SEEN THIS" (negative) signal wire is a "we've seen this" (positive) signal, but multiplied by minus a million or so (which makes it "louder"). F And the "we've seen this" (positive) signal comes from a bog standard binary memory cell (output 1 for every signal larger than 0). This could be fed from the same wire that carries the sum of items in chests, but you'd probably want to instead get it from the inserters that input into the chests. Otherwise bots putting a manually crafted items into a filtered storage chest would mark that item as "craftable". G And finally, the "this is how many we can ever craft" (positive and negative) signals come from a constant combinator (or probably a set of them) and an arithmetic combinator multiplying it by -1. And if you already have the inputs for B and its sum (before filtering) on the same wire (right next to all the outserters), then you you can easily set them to work when [item they're providing] is smaller than zero. That will make the item counts work from a single constant combinator. [edit: Wait no, that wouldn't allow the inserter to grab the very first item ever produced. Unless you set them to work when the value is
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
Ha, you got ahead of me. I was already planning a “we are ready to upgrade/expand” logic, but I was going to distribute it out with each of the blueprints/grid cells, so we could upgrade the logic along with the cells. The logic is indeed pretty simple (even simpler than you’ve outlined): just connect a decider combinator to a roboport to read the logistics network, hook up one or more constant combinators with negative demand, speaker to show a (silent, I think) alert that we are ready to upgrade something. That way we can look at the map and see what all our upgrade options are. (It strikes me that we maybe don’t even need the decider and can just hook everything up to the speaker).
@Pystro
@Pystro Ай бұрын
@@mysticfishgames Yours is easier because you are doing the upgrade to keep up with build options by hand. Most of my logic goes into figuring out what we should expect to have.
@Pystro
@Pystro Ай бұрын
Are you _asking_ to be suggested a simpler/smaller circuit logic? I wouldn't have done so, but in case it was to be understood that way: It's not simpler (to understand), but you can avoid the multiplication by 100, if you re-order the operations: Fist sum up how many bots are busy over the last 900 ticks; then divide by how many bots are available at the end of that 900 tick window (the number only changes right at the start of a window, and then only by 1 or 12 or whatever); then multiply by 100(percent) and divide by 900(ticks) in a single operation and then compare against the 90% target - or just check if it's higher than a target of 90*900/100=810; And then finally you multiply the "yes, I need a ... bot" signals by C. I personally would work with the "bots available" figure directly and check if it's lower than a target of 10% (or 10*900/100=90). I don't know if that could create problems for the duration while not all wires are in place though - then again, that's when you want to seed the system with a certain number of bots anyways. And I don't get why you have to take the tick duration of the averaging window _from the clock_ at 19:41. Just make the clock resetting combinator (at 15:22) compare against a "N" signal from a constant combinator, and then you can divide by the same "N" at the end.
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
One of the benefits of dividing by T rather than just the constant 900 at the end is that I can observe the current running average in the middle of the 15 seconds. Which was highly useful while I was debugging.
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
Oh, and I wasn’t necessarily asking, just predicting that someone would invariably suggest alternatives! Which is cool!
@Pystro
@Pystro Ай бұрын
About your first row of machines for intermediaries: Does the rest of the mall have the capacity to consume its full output? Because otherwise the intermediaries would be overbuilt (except for the few times when you grab intermediates for handcrafting). 10:00-ish: That belt feeding logistics bots into the roboport is not OCD compliant. I would have fed the bots in from the bottom. But _it'll work._ *_It's fine._* _I don't need to ask you to change that._ 10:48 Those explosive cannon shell machines look set up wrong. You can't input into the output slot of a machine, can you? 23:19 Leaving the beacons in the initial blueprint will beaconize the mall before beaconizing the module modules. I'd guess you'd probably want the priorities the other way around.
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
Ha! There are lots of parts of this mall which are not exactly perfect, and I just finally went “meh, good enough” rather than refactor at some point. Including the logistic bot belt. :) Explosive cannon shells are ok. Regular cannon shells on the left, explosive cannon shells in the middle, artillery shells on the right. They all build properly (if you pause the video you can see the resulting explosive cannon shells and artillery shells in their output chests). It’s quite possible the intermediates are overbuilt, but there are quite a bit of things that are hungry for red chips, so I’m ok with an overbuild there. “Nothing succeeds like excess!”
@ritinfek
@ritinfek Ай бұрын
It would have been very interesting how you determined the needs in FactoryPlanner. pls consider this in future editions
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
Sure thing. I usually do go over the factory planner if it factors in heavily to a design. I didn’t think it met that bar, but since you are interested: first I did a plan for blue belts and adjusted the target production so that it consumed exactly one blue belt of iron plates. Then I did it again for blue undergrounds. Finally, I did a plan where I produced an equal amount of gears and green circuits, and again adjusted so one full blue belt of iron plates were consumed. I then tacked on the 3 red circuit assemblers, but I just kind of eyeballed that and didn’t include it in the plan.
@ritinfek
@ritinfek Ай бұрын
Besides the whole excellent setup - the use of splitters and undergrounds in the basics / interrmediats section is stunning - after looking closely ist really nifty executed I learned a lot. But: With all due respect @MysticFish, the combinator setup is imho for over 90% of the users over the top. Isn't there (as you humbly mentioned) an easier and better understandable solution, digestible without being a math buff?
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
Sure, there are lots of ways to do things that are simpler. We could just decide on having a certain number of construction and logistics bots, and just stop inserting once we’ve hit that number. Or, we could insert bots whenever the number available drops to zero. What I like about the design I described in the video is that it is adaptive (doesn’t require knowing the target number of bots ahead of time) and adds some smoothing out so we don’t overproduce bots just because of a temporary surge. As I’ve said before: it’s all tradeoffs. Simpler logic vs. more complex behavior.
@RadiumEyes
@RadiumEyes 26 күн бұрын
When's the next episode coming? ☺
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames 26 күн бұрын
Soon, I hope! I have been busy with the non-Factorio parts of life, but I am almost done with the next episode. Thanks for your patience. :)
@erndog0110
@erndog0110 14 күн бұрын
You ever coming back to finish this ?
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames 14 күн бұрын
Yep!
@ritinfek
@ritinfek Ай бұрын
In order to build this mall you have to produce many of the entities (blue belts & underground, beacons, pipes e. g.) first - where do they come from?
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
We’ll make a mini-mall in the jumpstart base (which we have not yet designed-coming soon!) for the basics; the rest we will either handcraft or build here.
@Pystro
@Pystro Ай бұрын
@@mysticfishgames "or build here." Oh, does that mean that the "upgrading" (or rather the initial build) of this mall will be done in a way so as to prioritize the missing items?
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
No, not necessarily. I was really talking about higher tier items that are only used after we start upgrading (like stack inserters, AM3s, red and blue belts, and beacons).
@erndog0110
@erndog0110 Ай бұрын
Great series !! When are you gonna stop teasing and start building it? 😂
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
Hahaha, we are *so close* to being ready to start the playthrough. Just a handful of designs to go!
@erndog0110
@erndog0110 Ай бұрын
Torture Pure torture 🤣🤣
@ritinfek
@ritinfek Ай бұрын
I let it run for many hours and the red and green circuits are still not backing up...
@mysticfishgames
@mysticfishgames Ай бұрын
Did you run the version in the published blueprints (yellow belts, assembly machine 2s, tier 1 modules) or did you upgrade all the way to blue belts, AM3s, and tier3 modules?
@ritinfek
@ritinfek Ай бұрын
@@mysticfishgames i run the published bp only - MY MISTAKE. NOW IT WORKS - the reason is, I didn't watch your video till the end where you explained why sticking with yellow belts on the BP
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