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Mama Rose By Any Other Name

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And Now They Sing

And Now They Sing

Жыл бұрын

"The change of name from 'Gypsy Robe' to 'Legacy Robe' initiated by the Actors' Equity Association is remarkable. It is a step towards accurate representation of Roma people in mainstream society. We are moved by their honorable choice." -Roma Peoples Project, 2018
What do you do when a classic musical has a title that is an unambiguous racial slur? Well, the answer certainly shouldn't be nothing. Zach Barr (they/them) discusses the history of the term itself, the arguments against changing the title, and what would truly be at stake in making-or not making-this adjustment.
Music in this video is provided by Lobo Loco, and used under a Creative Commons BY-NC-SA license.
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Пікірлер: 25
@user-jb7md3bk8i
@user-jb7md3bk8i 6 ай бұрын
The musical was not named by Laurents or Sondheim or Styne or the producers. It was named by Gypsy Rose Lee who insisted on it. Her only condition for the sale of the rights to her story, other than money, was that the musical had to be called Gypsy. It was her express wish and I would assume contractually necessary until the work enters the public domain. Even if I am wrong about the legal issue, I would respect her wishes.
@TheGladInGladiator
@TheGladInGladiator 10 ай бұрын
About the argument that “do that many people really care about this?” it implies that being progressive is only something that should be done in response to criticism of something that’s harmful rather than because it creates a more inclusive and safe environment for everyone. If we have to wait until a certain threshold of people are upset over something to make a very simple change then it isn’t trying to be more socially conscious, it’s just people who are completely ambivalent trying to cover their asses.
@josephottavi-perez8203
@josephottavi-perez8203 5 ай бұрын
Title Options: - Rose’s Turn - But Not Rose - Here Comes Mama 😂
@gwynfromRARE
@gwynfromRARE 3 ай бұрын
Also!! "Raggedy Ann: a Musical Adventure" which is being revived and staged starting next year is now "Rag Dolly: The Raggedy Ann Musical." And the first show is 40 years old! Just another example I thought of. Also random but I just found your channel and I'm binging everything. I love your narrative style!!!
@Ayden_B
@Ayden_B 11 ай бұрын
I think it’d be so simple to just change the name to “Gypsy Rose” that way it’s clearly about the historical figure while also not losing anything
@RudigerVT
@RudigerVT 7 ай бұрын
this was very interesting. Another aspect of this, though, is that the whole piece was crafted by Louese Rose Hovik, to burnish her legend and image. as long as it remains under copyright, I doubt that the trustees of the estate would allow any change. There have been a couple of somewhat recent, excellent biographies of Louese Hovik, and they may be worth consulting for more background on this angle.
@mikeymullins5305
@mikeymullins5305 11 ай бұрын
I thought this musical was about.... well.... the ethnic minority mentioned in the title for quite a while. So if it was something else that would he somewhat less confusing to at like 14 year old me.
@BrendanClifford
@BrendanClifford Жыл бұрын
Just for the record, Drood is still The Mystery of Edwin Drood, the shorter name is a marketing effort (one I don't think particularly makes any difference to bringing in audiences).
@talianudell547
@talianudell547 Жыл бұрын
Great video, and really well said! Any ideas for alternative titles? My friend and I thought maybe “Let me entertain you”- covers a lot of bases, and it’s intrinsic to the show
@kbye2321
@kbye2321 8 ай бұрын
For me, it seems a little too long... I personally would see "Rose" or "Roses" as a possible contender.
@michaelwilliamybarra2409
@michaelwilliamybarra2409 7 ай бұрын
@@kbye2321 I for one would think naming the show "Rose's Turn" would be the most selling option for what the show will be like. It's both the biggest number performed by the star of the show, AND it gives newer audiences an understanding going in of the power struggle between Mama Rose and Rose Lee that slowly but surely develops throughout the story. As Rose Lee's career as a stripper rises, the scale of dominance turn's in her favor while the final number is the now dethroned Mama Rose's last ditch effort to try to ring some form of power back for herself. I also don't think "Let Me Entertain You" is inherently a LONG title(at least no longer than say "Little Shop of Horrors"), but it is a very VAGUE one to me(I mean, who is this "me" I'm supposed to know and care about to buy a ticket, and why does all the "entertaining[even if it's meant to be read ironically(which I feel to be more dramatically accomplished with the aptly titled “Parade*”]" HAVE to come after being clouded by all this backstage drama involving a different central figure who doesn't even sing the number being referenced, and whom the story is more or less actually about. With “Rose’s Turn” you get both the prominent name of the show’s focus(as with your first suggestion of “Rose”) AND the idea of what the story thematically involves(my proposed upgrade to your second suggestion of “Roses”). But that’s all my perspective of an Ideal title. What do you think? *Parade as the show's title is first in reference to the Confederate Memorial Day parade(and it’s illicit winds of Southern Lost Cause based emotions) that begins and ends the show, and secondly arguably treats the crux of its subject matter(The real life case of The People vs Leo Frank) as much like a “parade” as everyone else involved in that time did(sensationalizing reporters, coached witnesses giving enticingly inciting testimonies, the prosecutor being noted as famous for “running a real showboat in that courtroom”, the expressed jubilation of the crowds in the streets after the verdict was announced, the projected response from the north to the case, etc.), therefore further highlighting the dramatic irony at the heart of this dark story.
@kbye2321
@kbye2321 7 ай бұрын
@@michaelwilliamybarra2409 Honestly, yes! Rose's Turn is a much better title for all the reasons you give and it primes the audience for what to focus on: mainly Rose and how her upbringing and wanting to be noticed and cared for by her mother is the subconscious catalyst for her actions and philosophy which drive the show forward. It tells us many things: this show is about Rose, it deals with power (which I opine is mainly to separate yourself and to grow into your own person, which Rose notably did not, as her actions were always connected to not letting go of her children, Herbie, and her mother.) It also has the same name of a song as you mentioned, which I feel is a fun tradition to continue and I like it especially since having this particular song as the title makes it more poignant and emphasizes the points you and I mentioned. So yes, I think that Rose's Turn is such a great name, and in some ways, is an even better title than Gypsy, since sadly few people really know who she is exactly outside the theatre space and are not especially primed to expect a show more about her mother and all the themes we mentioned. Rose's Turn prepares a potentially unaware audience of the themes, lessons and important things to watch out for in the musical. YES!!
@danielqcallahan
@danielqcallahan Жыл бұрын
You make an excellent case. Personally, I’m in favor of changing the name as well. If there was a show that used the n-word as its title (assuming it didn’t do so with the intent to court controversy), people would rightly demand its being changed. As you say, who is harmed by changing it? Nobody, and changing it can be a force for good. So, there’s no good reason not to do so.
@piecesofme8531
@piecesofme8531 Жыл бұрын
Art shapes public opinion. Hence why Slave Play was/is so damaging by perpetuating the idea that black women slaves enjoyed being raped. But anytime black people complain about the use of anti-black racist slurs or anti-black imagery and ideology in media, we’re just being “sensitive”.
@shawnmulligan2894
@shawnmulligan2894 Жыл бұрын
My only note is that his name is pronounced "Ju-lee" Styne, not "Jewel." But otherwise a very interesting video essay that makes a great point!
@DavidBenkof
@DavidBenkof Жыл бұрын
It's also (and this is the title of the video!) "Madame Rose." She is NEVER called Mama Rose.
@DavidBenkof
@DavidBenkof Жыл бұрын
Upon further reflection, I don't know if the essayist reads the comments. But if he does, and is thus informed that she's never ever called "Mama Rose" in the show, and yet he doesn't change what is clearly and definitely an error, I don't think he can be taken seriously when he says someone ELSE should change their own title!
@anamaalonso7411
@anamaalonso7411 Жыл бұрын
@@DavidBenkof 🤣
@bradleyhalverson1026
@bradleyhalverson1026 Жыл бұрын
@@DavidBenkof Within the theatre community that role is widely and consistently referred to as “Mama Rose” so that is likely why they titled their video as such. Also letting you know, in case you were unaware, that the essayists pronouns are they/them/theirs.
@DavidBenkof
@DavidBenkof Жыл бұрын
@@bradleyhalverson1026 And you think I'M the one being petty? Exiting the conversation.
@RumperTumskin
@RumperTumskin Жыл бұрын
No strong opinion either way at this point but very interesting video. My main issue is with recognition - how will you (or your grandmother) know that there's been a change, or know that it's only the name? I would suggest for a couple of years (sure - next revival), the new and old titles must both appear to build familiarity. To your question at 17:10, my opinion is that any changes to the production should be made in the original continuous run, by the original producer and original creative team. Love Never Dies is a reasonable example - modified near the start by the original team. I don't, for example, generally support adding or removing sections from musicals. I'm also not thrilled with changing fundamentals of roles (say Chicago's Mary Sunshine or Matilda's Miss Trunchbull cast as females). IMO feel free to refer to a modified show as a "modern take" or "reimagining", but I expect a production touted as the original to be exactly that. I'm not sure a title change "counts" as such, but it's potentially the beginning of a slippery slope, as these things often are.
@Greg-fs2rh
@Greg-fs2rh 7 ай бұрын
I really don't think the comparison between the name of the musical Gypsy and the Negro League is a good on. On is the name of a person being used as a title. The other is the name of an organization and if there were ever a show about it, I am sure the whole name would be used. I say just leave the title of the show alone. I think us theatergoers are well aware that the name is not being used as a slur or to depict a certain segment of society and that it is the first name of a character in the show.
@ZoraTheberge
@ZoraTheberge Жыл бұрын
I think the reason it’s mostly fine is because it’s the name of the stripper, Gypsy Rose Lee. If the revival we’re all anticipating happens, it becomes a branding issue. “Audra McDonald in Gypsy” will absolutely sell better than “Audra McDonald in The Traveling Star” or whatever. Most Broadway audiences are older affluent white people on vacation. The industry ultimately does have to sell to the clueless out of towners in Time Square. There will be a segment of them who missed the memo and will think it isn’t The Mama Rose Musical. That last Oklahoma revival played a very small house and many older patrons definitely left at intermission because they didn’t know what they were seeing. The licensing company and the estates will change the name when they notice it drops in popularity and it affects their bottom line. Somebody somewhere is always doing Gypsy.
@michaelwilliamybarra2409
@michaelwilliamybarra2409 7 ай бұрын
Even if that's so, though, this show(like many classic musicals of this and the Golden Era) has a good deal of song title's that stick out at people just as much(if not more) than the title of the show itself("Everything's Coming Up Roses", "Some People", "Let Me Entertain You", "Rose's Turn", etc.). While I'm not EXACLTY on par with just referring to this show as "The Mama Rose Musical", I think even just using the most prominently performed and recognized number of the show "Rose's Turn" would work just fine, as that's ultimately what the show would bank on audience to see, while giving unknowing audiences at least an idea on how to interpret the dynamic struggle between Rose Lee and Mama Rose for control over the former's career and glory. When Rose Lee begins to branch off into her stripper career, it's HER turn to shine the power of the spotlight away from her mother's all consuming grip on her life, and then after she tells of Mama Rose for good(regardless of what direction the new revival will take of their last scene together on stage), Mama Rose will try to make HER turn to shine herself in spite being of the age(and temperament) that the entertainment industry would find "undesirable". My point being is that, even if local theatre company's still use the original title after this impending revival finally closes, there's at least an alternative ready to be taken advantage of that gets to the heart of the story first and foremost and doesn't HAVE to rely on a recognized racial slur that really only shines a light on a character who only BECOMES the center of the stage in a traditional character dynamic format(and on top of that, a role that has only three times recently been casted with more easily recognizable actors in their prime, Tammy Blanchard, Laura Benanti, and Lara Pulver) when both the story and marketing's focus has always been on her mother. Maybe "The Mama Rose Musical" feels pretty pedantic as well, but at least "Rose's Turn" will at least satisfy most of the experienced theatergoers' expectations of the experience they intend to have with this show, while newer generations are allowed a chance to more easily pinpoint an idea of what the show will be like for them.
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