Plot twist Adc doesn't mean Attack Damage Carry but it means Always Dying Carry

It's a hard role to sell, when your pitch is "does a lot of damage LATER, but nothing else" while every other role is "does a lot of damage NOW, and also has mobility/utility/durability/etc"

"Safely output their dps from a distance." ""SAFELY"

I mean, they technically are dying a lot

As my man skooch once said, also known as the “god-has-left-us patch”

Tbh, I feel like it's either a oneshot machine (basicaly a ranged assassin) or you don't notice them at all in team fights

Yes, riots incessant desire to make every role able to carry has made the traditional form of adcs irrelevant. Only mobile adcs are able to perform consistently now. It's no wonder qt left league.

In a way, I feel like yasuo and yone are really a big issue for the ADC class. If the crit items for ADCs get too good, it’ll make those champions OP. I’ll always wonder why they thought double crit passive was a good idea. Seems fundamentally too gold efficient and limits how good crit items can be

Feels good to play ADC when you are the one ahead. Because your lane opponents are inting

​the problem is that I play adc for the champions not the role. if I can just play irelia, syndra, etc instead of an actual adc then I might as well play mid or top

I bet he is going to say "the role is more popular than ever before and its balanced" but in 15 minutes

"Aside from Kindred and Corki, all marksmen are played in the botlane". Quinn is always forgotten, even when mentioning marksmen who are/can be played in other lanes.

"Just play mages it's way better" would have also been a good title.

I used to main ADC cuz I was good at it and I liked it. Now I main ADC because it feels like a responsibility. No one plays the role, and if I leave it to some random player I'm risking myself to lose because they normally feed.

One thing people forget is that the role that an ADC fulfills was meant to be a very very specific one: Safe, unrestrained and consistent DPS. This has more layers to it than it meets the eye. The range was meant to keep them safe... but now everyone has a million dashes, so naw the range doesn't matter. Auto attack damage is not limited by mana or silences... but then Riot removed all the silences from champs and everyone now gets mana for free from runes and Lost Chapter. (Like, for real. One you notice than newer champs like Kayn and Pyke have better base mana regen than ACTUAL mages like Soraka or Sona, you know Rito don' messed up). This is also the reason why APCs are not a real thing because the "attack damage" in ADC actually refers to "dealing damage with attacks". So, yes, Yasuo is an ADC. So is Yi and Trynd. They also were supposed to provide consistent damage... which can't happen because: - People can dash our of range as previously mentioned. - Everyone else can close distance and kill you (which shouldn't happen) - All fights end in less than 5 seconds. If you notice, all popular marksmen right now have something in common: Big burst ability + Hail of blades with Kraken Slayer (Kai'sa / Trist / Twitch / even damn Kog'maw) or extremely hard bursty poke + Dark Harvest (Sivir / Varus / MF / Senna) with Samira being the only actual outlier... but Samira is Samira. The role isnt dying. It's dead and buried and Rito laughs about it, just because ADC actually get to be meaningful in coordinated play. Just like Sona and Soraka. Ironic that they say they want people to have fun and get along when they turn the game into five 1v1 and the first who gets a kill can 1v9 (except ADCs) and nerf all strategies that require actual cooperation. And then they wonder why everyone is toxic and frustrated. They literally provide zero incentive to work together. Assassins should be able to get kills on champs that make mistakes or are on low HP, even if they tanks. But they shouldn't just be able to delete a player from the game, that is really unhealthy. Tanks should not be able to stun a player out of a fight for 10 continuous seconds while dealing the same damage than the ADC and healing what absurdly little damage they take. They should be able to tank for the teammates, tank towers and monsters and peel for the backline. Mages shouldn't have free mana whenever they like. They should be able to get huge mana pools so they can cast more spells in critical situations, but not be able to spam them so when they miss they can just try again. Supports should choose between supportive damage, utility and protection. But then again, Moonstone/Mandate exists. ADC suck. The only thing holding them together is DH and hail of blades and some overtuned buffs from Rito. Das my rant.

ADC is hit or miss. The game either is decided way before you start doing anything useful or you scale and start melting enemies. The biggest issue for me is that it feels like you are a plan B in case the game lasts long. If it’s short it’s never because of the ADC. And in season 11 games are short and snowbally like never before.

I have a suggestion for a video... "When Support stopped being Support" Basically the thing that I've been seeing too much, people playing Mid mages as Support, stealing kills and minions for their ADC and whatnot

the main advantage of playing marksmen: they are FUN and learning them feels a lot more rewarding than playing something like mundo or garen or yi. this is the same reason why fighters and assassins with high skill ceilings are so popular (riven, yasuo, akali, etc.). they take a lot of time and effort to learn, so when your practice finally pays off, it feels great. i didn't main adc until a year ago, i basically only played support but always had a soft spot for marksmen since playing an ice archer (ashe) in the tutorial back in the day is what drew me into the game. so senna's release as well as a huge frustration with my adcs on ranked pushed me to switch roles and despite it being a big pain to this day, it is also the most fun i'm having with the game. especially over the past months i've been trying other roles more regularly as well but nothing could really keep my attention (besides maybe irelia). sure, they are kinda easily replacable in the bot lane at this point. but as it's said in the video, the high risk/high reward that come with marksmen will keep them in the game. and i don't think they'll ever be not viable (unless crit items get fully butchered again but even then, many can still just build lethality), it's just a higher learning curve than it used to be imo. tl;dr - marksmen bring me joy in this toxic af game, no matter what, so they are worth it

Is the role dying? Maybe but is the laner dying? apparently not according to my 0/7 support

There's another reason Shieldbow isn't always great: Serpent's Fang exists.

Ye, probably. The role in general is item reliant. That means that ADCs become impactful 25-30 minutes into the game. With turret plates, heralds, and the item/champion changes to make them more snowbally (snowballcreep?), that's just too late. At 25 minutes, the game is usually so one-sided, your impact is meaningless. Not to mention if you ARE useful, you just get deleted by tank Sett or Garen with stridebreaker.

Forgot too talk about the two greatest peaks for Marksmans/ADC. The Dawn of Lethality (When a Jhin could 100 - 0 anyone with the last bullet in Curtain Call) The Marksman Rework (5 Attack Speed Kog'Maw) and the subsequent revert of it.

I think the traditional ad carry archetype which is an immobile squichy carriy with ton of sustained damage is dying yeah, right now if u look at the most popular adcs they're all hypermobile hard to kill semiassassins that can oneshot like Kaisa, Tristana, Vayne, Samira ... etc

What happened is that ADC realized they weren't feeding fast enough. So they decided to die as a whole in order to permanently boost the enemy team.

4:33 That Ezreal missed literally everything and still won against Senna

you basically hit the nail on the head, our role feels like it's just...not effective even if we are carrying so hard we can 2-3 shot an enemy with 2-3 autos, if our allies don't protect us we may as well not even be champions. I can't name the number of games where I've left lane like 10/0, but then realized the enemy had a 3/5 top laner and well that means I dont exist I guess. and what's worse is that if we leave lane NOT having done well our only chance of getting back in is to turbofarm which...we cant do. becasue either teammates follow us to the lane and take all the CS so we struggle to even get like 10-30 cs in 10 minutes (I'm not joking. this happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME and I hate it) or we do FINALLY get to have some CS to ourselves an-oh look 4 of the enemy team showed up to kill the 0/5 adc just...because we are the adc. ok then. we're just constantly in a "damned if you do, damned if you dont" situation and thats WHY we complain so much. almost EVERY OTHER ROLE has at least SOME way to defend itself, even if it's not super strong it's THERE. Shieldbow and merc scimitar just arent enough

Fix the snowballing and ADC feels like an important role again

So, your final answer is something like: - Marksmen are no longer needed in the modern League. Mages, unconventional ranged champions, and even bruisers can work. - Having variety in the bot lane is good, both for Bot and Support. - Since Riot's approach for roles is "every role, and therefore any class, should be able to carry", then just play whatever you like the most down there. - People still play Marksmen cuz they're fun and the power vs risk fantasy they bring is enough to make people excited. I personally think you missed a lot of topics: - Since ADC has the highest damage ceiling, they must have the most difficult pathway to achieve it. The most unfun meta is one where ADCs are just too strong and they get to achieve their peak much early in the game. They not only have a lot of damage, but they also lack counterplay for the most part since you can't dodge autos. - For ADCs to be effective, they need to have high cs scores, low deaths, and not fall behind in xp. Just like in the previous point, to achieve their peak they need to play perfectly. That's why pro players have no problem at getting rank 1 playing only ADC in soloQ; their macro, good cs scores, safe playstyle allows them to scale and impose a threat in midgame just by pure farm and xp, without needing kills. Of course, low elo players can't handle that, and that's why they are the worst performers for that role and the only times they get to carry is when they get fed (which happens often in bot lane). - Sometimes, the threat of doing damage is good enough by itself. Of course, the assassin is going to target you, cuz you're not only squishy but also dangerous. Being a priority target can force opponents to misplay while trying to reach you. If the enemy Kled tries to get to you by burning flash, R, everything, then even if you die, you still get value out of that, and if their team overextends, then your team can win after. - ADCs need to have their agency limited cuz when an ADC gets ahead, their support also gets ahead. In the modern League where any support can carry games too, that becomes especially dangerous. The agency of an ADC + their support needs to be not that much higher than the agency of a mid, otherwise, the game becomes heavy bot lane focused. And it kinda is right now due to early Dragon elements.

"We never once as a community explored what other scenarios can come out of having more variety in the botlane..." We did and it was fucking awful. As a support player, trying to support mages during the collapse of AD Carries was a tricky scenario because enchanters functioned better with auto attack based champs, meaning you'd either A) Have 2 mages bot (counterbuilding was stupid easy) B) Have a Tank and a Mage Bot (ideal, but stale having little variation as a supp main) C) Just play an enchanter and fuck your team comp There are outliers of course, you could argue to play like pyke support 30 games in a row, but the main idea here is that when you add more variation to the botlane, you actually restrict it as well. The same reason that Senna doesnt perform well with other ADCs in bot and would instead opt for tanks is the same reason why playing Swain and Morgana in bot isn't ideal. They don't cover each other's weaknesses, they simply share one, so they steamroll or get steamrolled.

"we have never had a melee adc in bot lane" pre-rework morde: am i a joke to you :(

Getting a lead as a Marksman just isn't as gratifying as it is for Mid, Top or Jungle. It takes a long time before you really feel any difference, and by the time you do, the game is about to end. And it wouldn't be a problem if other types of champions were becoming popular in Botlane... if Marksmen were viable anywhere else. But if you want to play Marksman, it's usually bot or bust.

The reason ADC sometimes feels worthless is true that it's because of the lower base stats and stat growth, as well as lack of defensive itemization and lack of defensive tools in their kit, but that's just the surface, the symptom. The real problem is that ALL marksmen are balanced around the fact that they are tied to a support. It's a class that has a culture and identity around itself. They aren't ''bot laners'' they are support and adc, contrary to any other role that doesn't define itself by the class that plays it. Riot fed this idea by endorsing the playstyle throughout the years, creating more supports and more marksmen meant to be played in tandem, so it's no wonder the role feels this way and why Riot has been trying to reverse all the damage they've caused by feeding it. This results in issues such as the ''Bot diff'' circlejerk, since theoretically if a role provides 20% of the team's power, the support and marksman basically provide 25% and 15% respectively, but when mid-late game comes around, that 15% that the marksman provides, becomes a 20% on its own. This is why you have most pro play metas centered around late game and marksmen, this is why junglers in pro play are just a second support. This is also a reason why assassins and divers are so obscene sometimes, they have to be, or the bot lane duo will always carry past 30 minutes unless they are very behind. How could anyone justify this class having defensive itemization if it has a whole role dedicated to providing protection for it? How can this class ever get more mobility, more base stats, more agency if they have a walking meat shield peeling and tanking for them all the time? It's no wonder then, that when the average solo queue adc player gets caught in the river and one shot, we as a community blame the role and circlejerk about it, which, while true and right, we perpetuate that stigma that there HAS to be a marksman bot and they HAVE to be supported. ADC or 'Marksmen' should be a class, not a role, their power curve should be more in line with other classes instead of below average at the start and above average later. Then and only then will the whole ADC memes come to an end and we can all have a more balanced experience when playing this class.

Wish the League carries had the same impact like the Dota Carries i mean they are basically unkillable and going in a 1v1 with em in mid to late game is basically suicide unless you are the opposite team carry

I personally hate the elder dragon, it is impossible to have a 40 or 50 minutes game now, everything is so fast and boring, in 15 you know which team won

ADCs are the enbodiment of the problem that Solo Q has: Team play its a must. Even if you can technically carry alone, without a team you are basically useless. Also, on the support part... Rakan showed you cant do a jack of all trades master of none on this role. On the other hand Pike taught us that you cant simply put the best parts of 2 roles, tanks CC and assasins instant burst, on a kit making him "support" (member when everyone picked him for the mid lane?) and also completely counter the best part of enchanters with an execution. Yumi taught us that you cant simply overtune an untargetable hyper buffing parasite and finally Rell its the prime example of "shoe horned healing because... support"

1:32 seeing tryd ditch that wave and krugs was a heartattack

Marksmen is a class for champs that deal super high damage to a single target while mages are a class that deal high damage to multiple targets, i always think that should have way more sense if the mid lane was the lane for marksmen while the mages go bot with the supp, also if the adc is in mid, just by ganking him and taking out the enemy midlaner, jungler and him could rotate to herald or drake in early game to take it easily.

Say we (adcs) go other lanes... We'd be either 1) Chewed out by top, 2) Get chewed out by midlane or 3) Become an ATM that's easily accessible by the assassin midlane/mage midlane. There's no winning if ADC's leave the botlane.

The amount of time a bot diff has resulted in a loss is astounding.

In my opinion Riot makes it difficult with the items. Because they cost so much gold, you need to be ahead or you'll always be behind. Farming barely does you any good too until you start racking up kills, but that's only if you participate in fights that you are incapable of making an impact BECAUSE you are behind. And because your whole role is reliant on building damage, you can't just switch to defensive items like other classes because there simply aren't enough options like that in store.

Wait until we get to support. I will explain in the comments of that upcoming video why making every single role including support be selfish as possible, might be one of the most dick-headed moves you could ever do in a MOBA game.

The discussion at the end about positions and roles makes me think about how roles work in Dota. Dota generally sorts positions by farm priority, so position 1 is the hard carry who spends most time farming while 5 is the hard support. Notably, unlike league, different types of heroes can function as a position 1-there are squishy melee hard carries, bulky fighters, ranged carries, and so on- the only criteria is that they want to farm the most. It's possible to imagine a future League where champions are sorted like that rather than the "tank or bruiser top, mage or assassin mid, marksman bot"

How i love that you started the video for my main role with a song from my most favourite video game series :3

Just an ADC main here! I would say that the main advantages of having a marksman on your team are: Consistent DPS in TF Decent tower siege Objective shredding Late game advantage Now, depending on the enemy composition, you can get away with not having the marksman fill some of these roles (Ezreal and Jhin are playable despite not being able to shred tanks easily, but they do double down on tower siege, so it's kind of an occasional trade-off you can make). However, it is true that marksmen are no longer needed to fill these aspects of a team composition. Cassio, Ryze, Azir, as well as a bunch of fighters can very easily cover the DPS aspect of marksmen. Heck, even assassins such as Yi and Yone can! And with wizards being able to do magic damage to towers now, having an ADC to do the job is also hardly needed. Finally, many other champions can assure your team doesn't fall off too hard late game (Kayle, Kassadin, Yi, Veigar, Yasuo, Yone, and these are only the damage dealers), and even if you don't get to have them on your team, "having advantage if you manage to get to the late game" is a big "if" to base your composition around. So yes, I would say that you can get around not having an ADC, but you'll have to be careful, not anything is going to work, you need to get a good balance of ranged and melee champions (if you are not going for a HardDiveComp, which would be hard, but not impossible, to pull off), else they'll siege-kite you out of existence, and you need to have at least one champ that can shred tanks and objectives. Personally, I think it would be interesting to see ADC getting more independent and becoming some sort of ranged fighters that could flex lanes, and have more mages in the botlane, I do not know how could riot balanced that, but it would be neat. Not getting my hopes up tho. Great vid!

The problem is that when you get behind as adc you are useless bc you have no cc (which doesn’t scale) and you need your items but you aren’t rewarded for getting ahead any more than top or mid and maybe even less

Why would i play a role that spend 70% of the game afk farming and still can get one shoot by a leblanc or vladmir when i can just play ornn or shen and never die

Pretty great video as always. I love this type of explanation from all the sides of the game. What has happen before, what did it lead to, and how other classes affected this role as well. Nice job!

As an adc main.. I can tell you, it’s satisfying to carry as an adc but those games are so rare it’s really not worth it for the 1 million times you’ll be one shot before you can blink.

I love the adc role. My only complaint is full tanks one shot me all while I’m cc’ed. I don’t mind anybody else blowing me up because at least they built some damage but when a tank does it I just feel like the only agency I have is staying alive in the back line and baiting cool downs and gap closers. I just wish they gave Lucian his slow removal on E again because of all the slows in the game but a high elo streamer said it best. ADC is just a survivor horror game and the objective is stay alive and do damage if possible

Adc role is only fun when the game is slow paced. I personally feel ez is overrated 😔

I would like to say i appreciate your channel so much ! :) Your video topic are always interesting, really fun to watch and how you discuss about it sound really professional. Keep up the good work

I've had a weird and stupid idea that could maybe shake up the meta. Having top laners and adcs switch. so you'd have adcs in a solo lane and top laners would be with a support or another top laner. Top laners synergies well with each other and supports in the early game, even more so than adcs synergies with supports. this could help adcs achieve higher levels quicker allowing them to scale faster. As I said it's a weird and stupid idea but if we could spread it and have it tested out we might find more options to make the game flow better, plus it'd be a cool shake up to the meta. Just imagine how terrifying something like sett and leona would be to fight as a mostly melee lane

I take breaks from League to play Dota once in a while and the sheer variety of the " carry " role is so refreshing, right from the lane they start in to the kind of characters played in that capacity. There's literally no restriction to the kind of character that can be played as a carry and that's something that's super fun to experience. The closest we got to this in LoL was when Garen Yuumi was a thing in bot and the smite midlane funnel meta existed.

"When everyone is super, then no one is" -Syndrome "The Incredibles"

Vars' call to action at the end takes me back to ye olde days of yore, when bot lane was 2 bruisers. Real OGs remember things like Garen bot and Blitz/Alistar lanes

I always felt like having a bruiser on bot turns out to be way more useful than a ADC

Just realized that a large focus on marksmen as a class is about the adc position in general, as talking about one normally tailors in the other. Its the issue that many people do like playing this marksmen playstyle, but cant bring them into other lanes. Where all other classes have leeway in comparison, such as Morgana and Nautilus being pushed into jg as well as still remaining good supports. Even when midlane assassins or mages feel underwhelming at times, most of them can be brought top or possibly other places where they can express their strengths. Jinx, Sivir, Twitch, and other marksmen dont have anywhere else to go other than bot lane. Sure there are specialy tailored marksmen for each role, but the majority are designed to be highly protected damage batteries; and if you are a fan of those marksmen, you better be sure to become good acquaintances with that bottom track. As a fan of those marksmen cant bring them into other lanes without severe consequences. (Even if you do like those other marksmen in other positions, they are also normally locked into those specific roles as well. Having their own consequences of you being them anywhere else. And having their own limitations to prevent them from being too oppressive.) Traditionally, marksmen are best when protected by teammates, so taking a solo lane is a great risk without an innate movement ability in the base kit. Support and jg are also awkward as marksmen aren't normally able to engage or peel for a teammate as well as practically any other class. In the end all the other lanes/positions want champions that have hard cc, early game carry potential, or someone that can survive alone until late game; all of which marksmen aren't designed to have. A good example is the enemy Kayle, Veigar, or Nasus can be 1000 - 3000 gold behind their opponent at 30-40 minutes and can still out put good damage through the scaling capabilities in their kits shoaring up that gold lost. And they would be nigh-unstoppable if ahead at that time. Adcs in comparison are the most impacted in that scenario due from being super item reliant, being the sole source of scaling for themselves. One that is ahead still need to play scared as well in that point in the game as always. I think riot will try to keep adc very marksmen focused, as moving it away any farther can alienate most players of the class from the meta/game. And by the math, presumably a 7th of all league players would need to give up their main role in marksmen to play something that has more agency in games. In a more recent example in history: Samira was nerfed heavily for having too much agency on her own, now shes been nerfed to obey the cruel adc reality of scaling and relying on items like all others in her class. Having a champion that dominates early and scales extremely well into late is way too overpowered. ... but then again most other classes have those champions that do both already. Some good mages easily fill the bot lane role already, helping to effecrively end the mid game before the enemy adc has time to scale. It doesn't feel fair to be a marksmen when you are easily and effectively replaceable by almost anyone; as other classes have it way better in terms of consistent agency throughout the game and in having a much more diverse array of items to build into. But that is the tradeoff for always being relatively safe due to range I guess. You can try to "fix" botlane by diversifying and making other classes the main focus down there; but that just sidesteps the marksmen issues and wipes the class under the rug. In this meta, replacing a dmg battery with someone that has cc and very good base damage by themselves is much more appealing due to agency purposes. And just buffing the marksmen items just buffs other melee champions that build those items as well, throwing the meta out of wack across other lanes. Honesty if they made proper crit items with resistances, I think it would be a safe decision that would help marksmen feel much better in this game state. In the end what I'm trying to say is the discussion should not only be about how to diversify and alter the bottom lane carries; but also trying to figure out how the majority of the marksman class can either be brought into other positions effectively or be given more agency without breaking the game; as kicking them out of bot would leave a good number of them homeless, and most games are still currently being decided by all other lanes to the point of where you only carry as adc when your team's competence let's you and needs you for the damage.

in the ezreal clip he whiffed 90 percent of his skillshots lol

As I've improved as an ADC main, the main thing I've noticed his that many people really don't play the role like it is now, they play it how it used to be. In old league where the idea of ADC first developed everything was pretty much an immobile stat stick so being ranged was a much more impactful since you could actually orb walk most other champs. Now there's a lot more to worry about so building up better game sense for ability cool downs and timings and combining that with clean micro is the key to doing well as an ADC. The main thing is that unless you are playing a hyperscaler, you have to rely on your team more than ADCs used to, when you accept this and play around them like tools you'll improve a lot. They don't even need to be feed or anything to give you the opportunity to get impactful damage and kills if you play around CC and engage correctly. Unless they have a fed Yone of course then just FF because you're already dead.

I had a hard time watching this as an ADC main. I’m so protective of the role and I have grown to love every designated ADC (minus Kai’Sa). But thanks for making this video. It was necessary to hear this for me.

Excited for this one! Went back to ADC for a few games bc ez is meta rn, dropped out of gold 3 bc of it and went back to support lmao feels like adc has almost no impact bc it’s a selfish role that doesn’t help the team besides outputting dmg, whereas if I play a support at least I’m still useful regardless if im 0/10 or 10/0.

My biggest issue with marksmen is that in the early game they made it so that you have to rely on your support to survive. That's why if Supports doesn't sacrifice themselves they are more likely to escape than you. They have self peel, cc and they also can build defensive items.

I've played Seraphine botlane for quite a while, and the experience that I got, I can say the following: ADCs are somewhat of a dying role, that stays alive because of their synergies with Supports. Botlane is very effective with champions that scale hard and can synergize with someone else, but not all supports are mentally prepared for the changes caused by playing around your teammate's cooldowns instead of assuming they can just DPS. Once that cultural mind block is removed, things will change, a lot.

"in no universe does a 3 item ADC stand a chance against a 3 item yasuo, it's not gonna happen." Me, who plays Xayah mid (w/ Kraken Slayer, LDR, Rav Hydra first three items): lmaoooooooooooooo hold my dragon soul real quick.

A dying class? As in, a class made to die? Yes

Loving the fire emblem radiant dawn's eternal bond as the opening track

ADCs are more reliant on their supp. If the support is awful it’s a complete loss, no matter how good the adc is. Being a support main, if you have an awful adc you can either carry lane and allow them room to breathe in fights or just focus on a different carry. That’s why the early game adcs are so good, you don’t have to wait in order for them to be useful whereas a jinx is going to take a bit to get them rolling

I always feel bad whenever I one shot adc or run them over with a huge tank, adc has had so much happen to them I can’t imagine what it would be like to be an adc main rn since it’s definitely a lot harder in solo q to survive because of your team

"all marksmen typically played in the botlane" varus, tristana, lucian, kalista, draven, kog and vayne would like to chat with you

While I enjoy playing ADC, in a lot of games I've played where a team forgot to pick one it wasn't that big of a deal tbh. In my experience, the tank can supplement the damage in the late-game and 2 good supports can give an adc and support a hard time in the early/mid-game

Me reading the title: Well it dies the quickest so yeah!

This makes me sad, I love watching Rav completely melt people as Ashe and Caitlyn.

Till season 10, adc was an imp role and had more dmg agency (required 4 items and had 200% crit dmg), but now It's a dying role

The thing is, range is still important for things like sieging and pressure/prio in lane. I am a believer in the new meta of botlane, but I say it can definitely be balanced out when you have a kindred or graves in the jungle, ziggs mid (w for towers), or maybe split pushers in the top lane.

A few times in the past, a group of my friends have run Sett and Volibear in the botlane. Having two huge health bars running in at the same time was often able to overwhelm any peel, and they both have decent sources of CC. We won lane every time we used it (4 times) and had a blast. So yes, I think bruisers can find a spot in bot. Especially since I think fighters are, as a class, the most consistent carries in League; even if you aren't winning lane, even if you can't survive everything and kill everything, you can almost always done one or the other. Soak up three ults without dealing 300 damage, blow up one person and die- you went down swinging and accomplished something instead of getting too close to the jungle and having your legs enter low earth orbit from the Lee Sin hiding in the bush

A part of me always felt it would be better if Riot made ADC's better in the early game and weaker in the late game to make them more independent and less high-risk-high-reward

"Bot lane is meant for Adc" The auto filled Yasou main on my team: *I don't think so*

I was hanging on every word until 4:13 when I realized what music what playing and now I'm only listening to the music and becoming a diehard fan of yours because I have found another human who has played FE: Radiant Dawn

I think what would benefit the role is a jungler-like item. Something that they can buy at the start that is allowed only for the adc role only and that will improve over time as they kill minions. Having that as an option I think would improve their mid-game. Perhaps something that links you to your support and gives the adc a bonus while they are with them.

IF you somehow end up having 3 items by the mid game (literally never happens, takes way too much gold), you can totally carry on most traditional crit marksmen. kraken + zeal item + IE is super powerful, you could be able to take down any of the mentioned three item opponents (darius, camille, yas... etc)

Honorable mention to Azir which is basically an AP Marksmen

I’ve been an ADC main for awhile since my friend is a support main, and we recently got back into the game. We’ve continually gone odd compositions bot lane with surprising success, some of my favorites being Warwick or Vi bot lane since they can outlast some minor poke and once 6 hits the enemy ADC is an easy target. While my friend has been goi mmh odd picks like Camille support!

love all the fire emblem music you use

“apart from kindred and corki all marksmen are usually played in the botlane” I think Azir and Quinn are considered marksmen and not played in bot.

As a support main i like ADCs, they are my babies. I protect them till they get the penta, heck, they have have an adolescence where they complain u don't "get" them when they decide to 1vs3 the enemy jungle. As a parent of lots of little adcs... i can apreciate the ones that know you love them and value your help, forget the spoiled ones and pat the back of those who are really trying. The meta is not ADC friendly and still, they keep trying lasthit those canons and win trades.

Hey Vars, I have some suggestions of possible interesting video topics: "Are anti-assassin mages still a thing?" "Why are there too few Wardens (defensive tanks) compared to Vanguards (offensive tanks)" "A look back at the Juggernaut rework" or "Why are juggernauts the most reworked class?"

I'm here for the music 🥰

Question is a bit misleading. I do think ranged ADCs are necessary due to the simple fact their method of kiting harassment is extremely valuable for taking advantage of whiffs and important enemy CDs. However I don't think ADC bot is necessary, which is pretty much what the whole vid suggests. Honestly the primary reason why marksman bot is still a thing is because that is still the safest lane for the vast majority of marksman. Varus, Ashe, Kog'Maw, Miss Fortune, etc. can still struggle in the jungle simply due to the concept of counterjungling. One of the great benefits for marksman is the ability to very safely CS after all. Jungling is just naturally more tedious cause the monsters always strike back. Honestly the only thing that can change the entire lane dynamics is for an abusable exploit to dominate in the bot lane that completely crushes the ADC/Support trend. This would be enough to change all lanes in general due to how integral marksman end up being. When I say abusable, I mean something as broken and overbearing as AP Master Yi and Tank Fizz were historically. It can't just be some one-off weird thing you try. There are a couple combinations that could be possible to trigger this. I've known Assassin Jarvan Bot to be very polarizing due to his bizarrely high engage range allowing him to zone ADCs to absurd levels. Rengar + Ivern is also something that can eliminate the range advantage of marksman by constantly providing easily accessible gap closers. In fact, there are many options that theoretically eliminate the marksman way too easily. The challenge with these implementations have always been the enemy support though. Due to how diverse the support role is, there isn't a universal threat to the support class as a whole. So many of the anti-marksman bot combinations can get shut down by a support that can handle that scenario. Assassin Jarvan can get disrupted by Poppy and Nautilus quite easily. Rengar can get cucked by Lulu pretty easily. It's also harder to do when the supports throw exhaust in the mix. Thus the optimal bot buster would have to consider the entire myriad of supports as well. Put simply, access to elimination of the marksman should be available regardless of whoever the support is. Something like Nocturne + Galio would be an example of that, though I don't know how that would perform. That aside, special marksman would need to exist in other lanes. Ranged top is a good place to abuse this like with Vayne, Teemo, and Quinn. As annoying as it is, ranged top can really disrupt the laning of common toplaners. The fact that it is annoying and hard to deal with is the point though since that proves it is viable. Obviously all the marksman junglers can also apply here like Twitch, Graves, and Kindred. The rare Kayle Mid/Top could also be doable as a replacement as, despite having AP in her kit, she still definitely has marksman grade DPS. Though there is always a threat when it comes to marksman in lanes other than bot, that is swapping and countering. The threat of swapping lanes means that the combination of your bot buster team must always be better than their swapping arrangements. In other words, the ranged top laner might need to deal with the enemy ADC & Support. The bot buster might need to actually deal with a top laner in the bot lane. Something like Darius, Renekton, and Illaoi could be tricky to deal with. Hell even a disaster situation like the ranged top laner is facing off the enemy ADC solo cause the ADC is someone like Lucian and the bot laner buster actually need to deal with the Top Laner + Support. Imagine Assassin Jarvan trying to face off Renekton and Nautilus. There are a lot of hurdles, and with good luck, you could possibly bamboozle an enemy team with a marksman not being in the bot lane. However, all these hurdles typically equate to lower winrates for these wonky strategies and that leaves less of an incentive to even attempt it at all. If anything, draft pick by nature is contrary to this flexibility in general. Due to the limitations of marksman being in other roles, it just becomes way more obvious when you are trying to break the meta. Pulling off this wonky stuff successfully and consistently is a job for blind pick heroes.

For me it’s a 50/50. ADC’s can suck if you’re targeted the whole game. That’s the point of League. ADC’s deals the most damage in a short amount of time, therefore they are targeted the most. Some people will argue supports are targeted more, but supports can handle themselves while an ADC’s can”t especially if you’re up against a butt ton of CC champions. I don’t think that the role is dying, rather than the lane itself since most ADC’s are centered around doing AA and just leave it at that. Yeah Jhin exists, but it’s not like Riot will do the same exact thing again and again.

Ma man rav got mentioned lets gooo XD. Good video, love this content

Thanks for giving me something to watch while I have lunch :3

Well because everyone can 1 shot you, yes you could assume this is a dying role.

It'd better have the word "latter" or I ain't watching jk, one of the best channels I've seen in a while, keep it going man

Welp, the last time they tried bringin something that wasn't a marksman to the botlane, the mordekaisening happened

The way ADC's survive is by Lifesteal, its the only mechanic for them that makes them "tanky". That is why Immortal Shieldbow is very good, as its proc gives an incredible amount of lifesteal, add in crits and its chunks of HP being healed back. Yes grievous wounds can slow that down, but if you build a full true "re-generator" you can overcome the 60% heal cut by just having so much lifesteal it won't matter (Immortal/BT/BTORK/Sangune blade ect). Yes a team can work just fine without an ADC, HOWEVER the team does need to pay attention to their damage output (damage type). A team of full 5 AP/Magic damage champions, can be mostly shut out in damage by the opposing tank. Same applies to the reverse of being full AD and enemy just stacking armor and laughing at your pitiful damage (AD mids are the sol cause of this issue). A team must have a balance of damage outputs, that is why the ADC is usually the teams source of AD damage, even if the whole team is AP, that ADC will force the enemy tank to build at least some armor, meaning one less MR item he can have. Recently had a game with this very "problem", 4 AP champs and I took Caitlyn. Being the only source of AD damage I decided to do full leathality cait rather then traditional crit (I still had some crit, but not full on). With Dark Harvest I was chunking the enemy every shot, and blowing them up, since regardless of any armor they might have built, my pen was too high. Build was (Eclipse, Berzerker, Collector, Mortal Reminder, Sangune Blade and IE) it was a slight hybrid between full on Leathality, and Crit/Regen, and needless to say, it was broken as fuck.

Ezreal is good, he's like a mage, but can rely on his basic attack.

I saw a "meme" among toplane twitter about shieldbow giving more shield than sterak's btw.

Radiant Dawn music was a nice choice

A good argument I read from someone, is sieging or pushing, since very very few spells could actually hurt if not affect Structures, this is one of the few times ADC's are appreciated. One might argue that AP champions with ranged AA's can do the same and I thought the same thing.