recently I think mirage has begun to have dynamic RCS

I find the F15 has a pretty poor radar, accurate?

@@SteviePonder123 Personally I find the Eagle’s radar to be ridiculously good, especially considering how you can’t reduce the size of the scan zone which you’d generally need to do in other modules to match the F-15’s performance.

@@Bullet4MyEnemy wow I feel we are flying different planes

I’d love to see what the other main modules can do - su27/33, Mirage in particular.

F14

The radar range in DCS corresponds more or less to reality. F-16 bloc 50/52 are equipped with the Westinghouse AN/APG-68 radar which has a range of about 160 nautical miles (296 Km).

@@mururoa7024 🤣🤣🤣 no comment...

​@@mururoa7024 The DCS F-16 has the AN/APG-68(V5) while the numbers you posted are for the AN/APG-68(V9) which has about a 30% range increase over the V5. Also, those numbers don't really mean anything because they say nothing about the RCS, speed, aspect of the contact.

@@destroystheovik I got the values from Janes for the V5, not the V9. But what matters for DCS is that they're higher than that of the AF-18C/D.

@@mururoa7024 Hmm... Interesting. Gotta check that out.

That is what I said

@@Spudknocker Not what I got from your wording. It sounded to me as well you said the display would be showing them flying 'toward not away' not that they would be shown flying parallel on the display.

That's been an interesting one to research because the figures given by the manufacturers are for tracking, which is a far shorter distance than detection due to variables in background noise. On top of that the F-16 received a processing upgrade starting in 2004 that likely put it on par with newer versions of the radar produced, like the V8 or V9, since I don't know of any other differences that the newer versions introduced anyways besides more power output. The new processor requires only 20% of the power previously allocated for it so maybe that power was put back into the transmitter but that requires intimate information I don't have. So I've had a really hard time concluding if the performance is realistic or not. On top of that I have literally no idea if US legacy Hornets received any kind of similar upgrade too.

This, the thing is that the Hornet radar is almost finished and is realistic whereas the Viper radar still needs a lot of work. It will get more realistic and will see its range vastly reduced. Radars are not some magic tools that DCS makes them to look like.

What were you expecting to change?

AWACS and datalink have nothing to do with onboard radar performance. They provide SA, but don't improv the radar in anyway. Yes the Hornet radar is too low, and the Viper's is WAY too high.

@@mobius7089 Mobius! You, again! Actually (I checked Wikipedia), it's safe for us to say that the Viper's radar is _fairly_ realistically modeled in DCS World. Max range for the AN/APG-68 is about 185 miles, and large fighter-sized targets are detectable beyond 100 miles. Information on the Hornet's AN/APG-73 radar, however, is lacking. Without getting specific, we can still say that the Hornet does have a slightly better radar in real life than the Viper has.

@@DJones476 I'm sorry, but that's just wrong. Only thing that can even come close to detecting a fighter at 100nm is an Eagle. (Of the non AESAs) It's is not physically possible to put a mechanically scanned array with that kinda power on the tiny airframe of the 16. Also...185 miles makes no sense when the system can only display a scale out to 160. Literally everyone knows that the DCS Viper radar detection range is astronomically incorrect. Absolutely maximum 5m^2 RCS detection range for the DCS Viper would be 55nm. That's the quoted number for the AN/APG-68(v9), DCS Viper models the AN/APG-68(v5). 55nm is the quoted detection range of the AN/APG-65 on the Harrier and early Hornets. (need to find this doc again) (Tomcat should see further than the Eagle)

@@mobius7089 AESA radars have absolutely obscene maximum ranges! I literally know nothing about the Viper's radar. I don't know what the minimum/maximum range increments in a real Viper are, either. However, the AN/APG-68 is publicly acknowledged to have a maximum range of 184 miles (296.32 km). Detection of a five square meter target is possible at 65 miles (105 km). I guess I misread it. Oops. The (V)9 is supposed to have a bunch of improvements, including a new SAR A/G expand mode. Having said that, I know for an absolute fact that the AN/APG-73 radar is nerfed in DCS. Actually, the Hornet in general is pretty nerfed in DCS. Ton of shit missing. Instead of being pimped out it's _simped_ out! Thanks for taking the time, my friend.

What does "be more real" mean? The F-18C has a better radar than the F-16C in real life so it would be "real" if it did in the game too.

@@jimrussell4062 The F16 radar is essentially overperforming in DCS at the moment.

And sorry for my rudeness Spud great vid appreciate it lol

As always lol

Hey man, what your seeing is eliminated from this test because of the removal of all variables. This test was for just all out max radar range. What you are probably seeing is maybe targets that are at higher or lower altitudes than you, they could be hot, cold or flanking, they could be jamming, and a whole bunch of other variables! This was just meant to be as sterile and repeatable a test as possible with targets at a frontal aspect at co-altitude. Unless these are the exact parameters of your test your result will very WILDLY that’s for sure dude!

I feel as though I understand how the F18 radar is supposed to work in DCS, but man-o-man I seem to have no end of trouble keeping targets locked, or picking them up when I think I should be able to.

@@Jazlizard Same here. Keeping radar lock seems very weird right now. Like the radar just keeps scanning as normal even when it has a radar lock so it can just loose it because the target changed altitude. I'm not sure if this is a bug or if I need to do something extra to tell the radar to really focus on the target.

ED sims APG-68(V)5 in their Viper, as stated in their forum post (look for topic "Subject to Change - Desired F-16C Systems and Payloads" by Waggs). Here is operations guide for that thing (not official, but detailed non the less): www . f-16 . net / downloads_file26 . html

The USAF specifically were upgraded from v5s v9s in (iirc) 2010 or so, so it's another of those things that ends up falling out of scope for ED's choice of a 2008 Viper. But yeah, the range improvement of the v9 over what we have should be in the ballpark of ~15%

@@TLTeo 2007 Viper, not 2008. Important because some weapons got introduced in 2008 that we won't see (SDB and JASSM)

Bang on, Drew! The Hornet (I won't go down that rabbit hole) is nerfed by ED due to Boeing and ITAR restrictions.

@Robert S it's so sensitive 🥺

I prob won’t haha flying IRL too much today but please feel free to create your own thread!

Its being expose already, nothing new really

i gues its a habbit to turn on datalink whenever you see it turned off

I have a lot of issues with the F18 radar also - watched a bunch of videos, but can't seem to get it to feel good. if you figure something out, let me know!

@@Jazlizard There is nothing you can do now....the 2.7 update ruins hornet radar....got to wait until they fix it.

I dunno if you could really say underperforming it’s just different now that it’s been tuned ya know, there’s definitely more variables that effect the radar that is undeniable. The F-16’s radar does need to be tuned for sure

@@Spudknocker I meant underperforming where it was previously. And it definitely puts anyone in a Hornet at a huge disadvantage against an F-16 who can launch an AMRAAM from M1.4 and 40,000 feet before the Hornet even gets a blip.

@@Spudknocker it definitely is underperforming. The AN/APG-65 that the Hornet's use to have had better performance than the AN/APG-73 in the DCS Hornet which replaced it. And the 73 improved on 65.

Lmao, 160 miles? Maybe if you're looking at a 747.

@@mobius7089 Can you read? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/APG-68

@@mururoa7024 Yes, and I see no altitude, aircraft type, or RCS data attached to that propaganda number. I'm sure on a perfect day, look up conditions, massive RCS target, you could see it at 160 miles. Also, everything you are quoting is for the AN/APG-68(v9), DCS Viper models the (v5).

And yes, the F/A-18C/D has the AN/APG-73 which is an upgrade from the AN/APG-65 of the A/B models. Also, the first Super Hornet's used the AN/APG-73.... even it's OFP for the avionics was identical to the legacy.

@@mururoa7024 oh wait! If you actually read down to the specifications you would see that range for a 5m² target (standard RCS fighter) is 105km or 56.7nm. This is for the upgraded AN/APG-68(v9). So please, dispense with the bull.

Yeahhhh boi!!!! My Eagle still flies supreme!!!!

I’m sure it will be tuned soon!

It depends on how you set up the radar. It requires work now. Im able to detect an Su-27 out 45Nm and maintain lock in TWS too. This is pretty good I would say, considering the fact amraam at best would have 30nm range at high alt. Even that is hopeful and doubt it would hit. Thats a 15Nm distance to prepare, not bad. Bigger aircraft like bombers ive been able to detect as far as 75Nm, RCS matters and setting up your radar is very important now.

@@Spudknocker Thanks to you it may be! Thanks for your hard work and making DCS even better.

In real life, the 73 does indeed outperform the 68. It isn't a _huge_ difference, but it is a noticeable difference. The old 65 in the Hornet was a little weak when it came to detecting extremely low-flying aircraft. For example, back in the '80s, CF-18 Hornets with the 65 had a c*nt of a time detecting British Buccaneers flying through German and Scottish mountain ranges, but was better able to detect them over the English Channel (water).

@@killshot932404rj still, no matter what you do with settings, the AN/APG-73 its waaaay worse then AN/APG-68 from F-16. We are talking about 100% of the difference.

Well, it's already fixed internally. F-16 radar should be quite a bit worse than the Hornet's. I don't think it's possible for an F-16 with a mechanically scanned array to match the Hornet's radar, the aircraft is too small for a larger transmitter or receiver.

Yup, they just destroyed the F-16's advantage in the latest patch, no use learning it any further now. Wait for the F-15E or the Eurofighter to see if they will allow any kind of competitive advantage in multiplayer, but don't hold your breath. Also, don't start learning the F-15C either, because, once enough people start using it as their sole PVP aircraft, it will obviously also need to be nerfed to bring it 'in line' with the other fighters in multiplayer (I can see this being done in one of two ways: Simply state that development has always been intended to replicate the features on an arbitrary old model that either, (a) never carried anything more modern than the Aim-120A/B, thereby neutralizing its long-range radar advantage or (b) create some reason why it's radar can't *realistically* be employed at longer ranges and therefore cap its maximum useful tracking range). Anyone with even a rudimentary physics education can do some little CFD experiments and compare the results with other sources to place some realistic error bars on the performance of these *Million* Dollar missiles and A/C systems; For example, do you really think the USAF would put in all those re-programmable microcomputer upgrades into the AMRAAM only to leave it with a sub-optimal guidance law against maneuvering targets (we limit our discussions to the 90's and early 2000's so as to avoid any talk about the ANNs, especially since ED definitely will never put the time and computational cost into training them properly), along with anything other than a mathematically derived Optimal Control System that takes advantage of the inherently unstable and weakly damped missile flight characteristics that ultimately results in it exhibiting both energetically optimal pursuit maneuvers and, at endgame, a very fast, critically damped response in any and all dimensions, all of which simply couldn't have been achieved prior to the introduction of powerful and re-programmable processor ASICs? In stead, DCS is becoming more and more like War Thunder with every patch. Just like in the movies, the goal seems to be to force you into a 'phone booth' with dogfights and very close in 'BVR' engagements (seriously, even the modern Aim-120C can't hit a mildly cranking target at *medium* ranges, i.e. 40-60nm, really!?). The only exception seems to be the Tomcat, but it has its own problems with the laughable Phoenix missile guidance law implementation and the inability to really use the radar to its full effectiveness without a human RIO in the back. This, in combination with the Tomcat's worse visibility and situational awareness, its vulnerability in a 'slow and low' Fox-2 merge, and *especially* the difficulty and time investment required to competently pilot it, is what (IMO) keeps it in check and safe from further nerfs to suit the PVP 'meta'.

@@mortlet5180 dude, the Viper radar range was incorrect to begin with. That was fixed. (Still too high) the Hornet radar was corrected, but is now too low. The Eagle radar range is too short, it's the same as the Flankers in DCS.... These aren't "balance changes", they are trying to make the sim more correct. Also, our Eagle should have D/L, 120C-5s, and 9Xs. Remember, it's an *old* FC3 model. Lot of data wasn't available back then.

Matt from ED said that they are still working on the F16 radar, probably around end of this year.

Hi is the best range for head on.

KZfaq Demonetization is no joke haha! Back in the day F**** used to mean slang for a bitish guy, and was a play on the fact that the brits give jet engines to the russians after WW2!

@@Spudknocker Had heard that one, plus it's theoretically also the name of a musical instrument, but hey, why bother with things like a dictionary when the almighty algorithm will just ignore it all and treat you like a criminal... Weird times...

The Hornet is nerfed to hell and gone (by ED) for security reasons.

High PRF is better at detecting targets coming at you hot and fast than Medium PRF. Interleaved mode switches between High and Medium PRF for each bar to increase the chances of detecting targets of an unknown aspect. So roughly speaking, if you know a target is coming towards you, use High PRF, if he's notching or moving away from you, use Medium PRF, and if his aspect is unknown, use High/Medium Interleaved PRF.

@@destroystheovik Thanks for that, it helps me a lot! Not sure how this works or a good practice; if you have link 16 and AWACs displaying a target, you can see, then should you then switch to high as you maneuver or since you know, it's just a matter of getting it's altitude for a quicker lock on.

All good man just train train train and the jargon and usefulness of the tools you have on hand will benefit you greatly. FYI the 16s radar in this test is greatly overperforming so expect it to be "nerfed" (brought in line with more real world specs) as the module nears release and as it develops. If you own it already however XD go have fun while it works like magic.

@@shannonnezul4903 I have the f18, was thinking about getting the 16, think my favourite is the AV8B

@@LanceOperative XD madman. harrier is a good time but I'm a dogfighter so I end up gravitating to other platforms. I'm a fan of the P-51 and the F-86. DCS WW2/Korea is criminally under rated IMO.

@@LanceOperative P.S. if you want a wingman who's only home a few days a week feel free to hit me up.

Very interesting statement bro.

You know this is not a game, right? Not all planes will be equally good. It is supposed to simulate real life. If in real life the F-16C has better radar than the F/A-18C, then you will always have a disadvantage against an F-16C. They will adjust the radars of all aircraft, for sure. But not now. They have other things to do first.

@@Krendor123 Well ofcourse but the models we have in game, the F-16C Block 50 IRL has a worse radar range then the F/A-18, not a better one.

Hey nice video by the way man. There is something I didn't notice did you adjust your elevation up or down ? That will sometimes pick the bricks fast too I noticed.