Thank you!

Some quick answers here. I’m not super comfortable evaluating loudness until I get the updated components from Mazzer. On North American power it does vibrate a bit and is a touch noisy at idle. You can hear it a couple times in the vid but obv different in real life. Mazzer was very concerned about this issue which is apparently only present North American power when they reached out to me less than a week after I received it, so I’m confident this will improve. To what degree I can’t say. But even as it is, it’s not unbearable and is quieter than some other production grinders I have tested. V60s - it performs brilliantly with the 200ds. So far it’s been one of my fave burrs. And I have had it facing straight out. The sight lines on the dial are reasonable even under a counter, but it’s easier to make fine adjustments when using two hands because it’s such a big dial.

⁠Yeah, no need to test noise in detail on this pre-production model. All you can do now is to comment on any high pitched or harsh sounds that might be there. It seems to be good in this regard. Ignore the vibration sounds as that should get sorted. Regarding taste, I have a Niche Zero now and we mainly drink espresso. I’m looking for more clarity with light medium roasts. I’m really curious to know how the two burr sets work for espresso. I expect that the traditional burr will still be cleaner than the Niche. (My old Mazzer Mini was.) But will the high clarity burrs hit the mark, or will they be great for clarity in pour overs and a bit lifeless for espresso? It’s a tough balancing act!

Grinder looks amazing. Thank you for the first impressions. Looking forward to the full review.

Totally agreed with you on this!

Thank you! Any specific questions for it just drop em here but I’m working on the full scope of tests! 🤝☕️

I really prefer the 200d and drink a wide variety of coffees including a lot of mediums - but, I often drink either espresso or americanos and don’t usually have milk or sweetened drinks. I don’t even know that I would call the 189s overly muddy but they do add a punch that helps the flavor cut through milk that (personally) I can find to be a little overbearing in a black cup of coffee. The 189s are stainless, which is different from the cast uncoated that everyone talks about - worth noting!

@@DaddyGotCoffee Thanks a lot for your reply. I think I'll go with the I200D. From many sides I've now heard that this is the better burr if you prefer coffee that has any acidity in it. But I think this question could be a nice piece for your full review, because I think many people have this struggle.

Absolutely with you on this!

It’s a looker! 👀

Detailed response incoming: I think this is going to be a disruptive entry to this price segment - in a good way. Lance recently released a video on slow feeding grinders - here’s my assessment of what is happening with the auger. First, it’s spinning so fast and with a single blade that the beans really get thrown around violently in the auger chamber. Just look at the footage starting around 12:30. It’s VERY obvious that the auger is prebreaking the snot out of those beans BUT it does it in a very different way. It doesn’t crush them like a screw against the edge/side of the chamber. It pulverizes them with repeated blunt force impacts. The pre-breaking chamber is very large in volume compared to others, so the beans fly around in there quite a bit. You can also see the beans don’t “fill up” the chamber. There’s a lot of empty space in the pre-breaking chamber throughout the whole grind process. This has the effect of a kind of pseudo slow feed where the beans slowly and somewhat randomly shift from being knocked around inside the prebreaking chamber to getting caught by the burrs, ground and discharged. So, all the beans don’t hit the burrs at once. This, in a kinda new way, controls the feed rate to the burrs, prevents re-grinding and makes for a more consistent grind. It also prevents clumping because the chamber on the other side of the burrs can get cleared out faster than the beans can make it into the burrs. It’s a very different action than you see in augers like the bentwood and zerno, where the beans are crushed against the wall of the prebreaking chamber and delivered kinda like a conveyor belt. I’m going to test this more thoroughly in my full review but that’s my assessment so far based on observation. I was def surprised when I started really looking at how the grinder was working.

Transparently, I do both filter and espresso each day and there has never been a grinder/burr combo that I have felt satisfied with on both ends. Until now. The philos with 200ds is the first grinder where I happily switch between filter/espresso from one serving to the next. Every day. The adjustment on the back isn’t necessarily a plus in this regard, but it’s not enough of a negative to cancel out the other advantages from my seat.

​@@DaddyGotCoffeethis comment is fantastic praise for this grinder. It's a big statement considering you also reviewed things like the Zerno and have probably tried EG-1 and Bentwood. Makes me very curious about the Philos!

@@DaddyGotCoffee​​⁠I know you review a lot of grinders, but does this comment hold true for the Fiorenzato Allground, or is the quality of the brews better on the Philos?

Because of the design of the auger and size of the pre breaking chamber, the design of this grinder creates a sort of pseudo-slow feed/delivery to the actual burrs. I didn’t notice a difference when I tried it on this but I have tried it on other grinders where re-grinding is more of a risk (ie niche duo, df64) and it absolutely makes a difference in those cases 💯

Absolutely! Worth nothing that your local relative humidity can have a BIG impact here. Will be doing a proper test but so far my experience with the 200d’s is a flat in/out on filter grinds, within 0.2-0.3 on espresso with no RDT and within 0.1 or less WITH RDT. I’m at 40-60% relative humidity in the winter

I’ll be doing this on my full review but even without pulling the burrs out it’s pretty obvious that the auger is really smashing up the beans. 12:30

I had the same thought when watching this.

Both excellent grinders. This is much larger. The pre breakers function very differently but are both very effective. Servicing/modularity is better on the zerno. But, mazzer will really beat the zerno on availability.

If you live in the EU, Mazzer. If in the US, Zerno

Agreed here! Kind of. The popcorning starts so quickly because of the design of that auger that I generally just use the lid

This is a great comparison and one I have planned. Will include a complete comparison in the full review! So far I prefer the 200d’s in the mazzer over the 151F for filter in the Duo. I have not side-by-sided the espresso burrs yet! Changing burrs is easier on the duo, although still not the kind of thing I think is feasible daily.

@@DaddyGotCoffee brilliant thanks, can’t wait for the review 👌👌👌

Hahahahaha thank you! I am awaiting an updated philos unit from Mazzer with some material changes. I will need to get my hands on that and run some thorough tests - so an update is still unfortunately a ways out. The good news - I have been very impressed with Philos, even disregarding any changes/updates/improvements Mazzer wants to make here!

Hahahahaha thank you! I am awaiting an updated philos unit from Mazzer with some material changes. I will need to get my hands on that and run some thorough tests - so an update is still unfortunately a ways out. The good news - I have been very impressed with Philos, even disregarding any changes/updates/improvements Mazzer wants to make here!

Hahahahaha thank you! I am awaiting an updated philos unit from Mazzer with some material changes. I will need to get my hands on that and run some thorough tests - so an update is still unfortunately a ways out. The good news - I have been very impressed with Philos, even disregarding any changes/updates/improvements Mazzer wants to make here!

I’m going to disagree here. ~80mm grinders are different but def not necessarily better than 64mm. Also, Zerno is about as “anti old brand” as you can get. It costs about the same, is 64mm and you’re going to wait 6 mos to get one. Despite its popularity online there are less than 1000 units in the wild. Mazzer has the supply chain, workforce, scale and quality control to release something comparable available on-demand. It also cuts into the P64 market. Saying this is an outdated segment is just not true. You may be referring to grinders like the DF64 G2 or DF83V. These grinders are cheaper but just not in the same tier as Zerno, Philos or P64. This isn’t even getting into discussing the 200d burrs that will likely fill a significant gap in the market in terms of taste profile and price. Edit since I forgot to address retention: in real world use with RDT on espresso grind, it’s flat in/out nearly every time. I considered going back to amend/clarify/update this but this is a “first impressions” video and, well, that’s how my first espresso grind came out. IMO within 0.1-0.2 (my result after using the knocker and dose finisher) is as good as you can expect at espresso settings without RDT, especially first shot out of the box.

🤣

Great! The production model came in a couple weeks ago and performance is even better than the pre-production model in this video. I'll have a release out in a couple weeks!

Sounds great, looking forward to it! I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how it compares to other single-dose grinders and whether the price justifies choosing it over the others.

Hope we get this answer.

It’s next up!

Excellent, the Zerno appears to be the main competitor for the Philos. Its clear advantage is the smaller footprint. Personally, I don’t like their purchasing model, so I’ve been holding off for the Philos. I’m still rocking the Niche Zero for now and experimenting with slow feeding for more clarity. Anyway, a Philos/Zerno head-to-head would be brilliant.

I second this. Zerno VS philos.

Donations accepted! 😂☕️📹

Where did you get this measurement? It doesn’t match Mazzers spec. Maybe I need to measure it!

Thank you! More to come on this one!

Would love your thoughts!

@DaddyGotCoffee I'm curious what's coming and what's available, partially because people see me as a resource in this area since I spent a couple of years shopping, educating myself and budgeting before I decided on and got my Breville Bambino plus and Niche Zero pair, finally "splurging" and committing to the Niche, partially due to you. I have absorbed most of your content, along with the other primary espresso/coffee KZfaqrs, James Hoffman, Lance Hedrick, Kyle Rowsell, Morgan, Spromethious, Artisti Coffee, Seattle Coffee Gear, Whole Latte Love, and more recently Tom's Coffee Corner among many others. I love how accessible you and Tom make moderate home setups. I love the in-depth stuff from Lance Hedrick and the accessible, entertaining, more general information from James Hoffman with everybody else kind of filling in, connecting the dots. This unit is something I don't see anyone I know investing in, yet it's very interesting and well presented by you in a digestible video just long enough to be informative but not so long it deters me from clicking play when I don't feel that I have more than 20 minutes to spare enough attention to actually absorb the information. I'm not a fan of butchered short format stuff except in a sense of advertising a new video from creators I subscribe to and giving a general sense of what's going to be in the video but longer format videos get to be a bit stale before they finish if it's not a product I intend to actually invest in. I genuinely appreciate how you are rather precise an entertaining yet don't have a bunch of extra fluff adding to the length of the video because if I'm getting anything I really hate to skip or leave a video before it finishes as I understand that's a bit Reckless with the algorithm for creators I appreciate. While trickle down economics don't work, trickle-down technology can be quite interesting as things progress, so I'm excited for more accessibility for the moderately entry-level crowd that I personally tend to associate with. Thank you.

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