Weight v volume, as clear an explanation as I've heard. Basically, what I've said to new loaders for years.

Vindication! Thank you. It’s amazing how quickly “best practice” and “for convenience” procedures becomes “DO IT OR DIE”! For muzzleloaders measuring by volume makes sense due to convenience, dragging an accurate scale around with you is a chore. But at some point that “should” turned into a “must” in most peoples minds.

When someone is lecturing me that I all do it wrong and I should only measure by volume .., I do the following. I fill my measure up to 60 gr and ask if this is 60 gr by volume. They say then this is for sure 60 gr. Then I tap on the measure and the powder compacts and drops below , much below, the rim. Then I ask if I should fill it up do that it is again 60 gr. A weight 60gr is allway 60 gr , regardless how much I tap the scale. Fill your cartridges up so there is no air between powder wad and bullet. Measure the powder weight and use a scale to make consistent charges. That’s the way to get consistent results.

Great video Mike. When I first started looking at loading BP, I was given so much grief for asking about weight charges vs volume. Everyone shouted you never weight the charge, it’s by volume. But I would look at 2F and 3F powders and then scratch my head, as there would always be a difference. Would have been great to have this video back then. Thanks for all you do. 👍👍

This video should be required viewing for all shooters.

Thanks for the extra effort to defining the differences.

Excellent explanation.

Mike, thanks for the explanation on synthetic powders.

That was a concise explanation for weight and measure. Well done.

Thank you Mike! I didn't know that Lee powder measures would work on that press

Hear hear! Thank you. Trying to explain this to some folks can be difficult. I'll definitely share this to everyone who needs to see it.

A good clear video with the subject well explained.

The problem for people is with the substitute muzzle loader powders. The volume measures are for black powder and as shown a measure of black powder is about give or take a grain or two the same charge as if it is weighed. For Pyrodex you use your same volume measure set say to 80 grains and it will be close to the same pressure and speed as 80 grains of black powder. If you weigh on a scale it WILL NOT WEIGH GRAINS. In fact if you weigh out 80 grains of Pyrodex it will act closer to 105 grains of black powder. Depending on the gun this could be an overload.

Best explanation I’ve heard yet on the subject. Thank you for sharing.

I am new to Black powder and I notice that a large number of people skip the initial step which is to weight the powder with a scale. My understanding is that 30 grain of powder could require that we we set the brass powder measure marker to 31 or 32 or whatever may it be depending on powder type. Thank you for needs highlighting that measuring powder is initially a 2 step process and we can't ignore the use of a scale initially and the brass powder measure is just a convenience cup or scoop that gives us 30 grains each time. Thank you.

Way back, I used to explain this on the SASS Wire forum until I was blue in the face. You have done an excellent job and many, if not most, of sooty shooters will insist there is a volumetric grain. So, now do your gig about "drams equivalent". My old Gun Fighter/ Dualist 45 Colt load was 1 dram (weight referenced) of Swiss lightly compressed by the PRS boolit. AND I notice you are still using my PRS boolits or a siilar copy there of since one is right there on you table. prs

That was a great description and clarification.

Great video Mike

Concise and easy to understand, as always. Mike.

Great information, simply explained ! Thanks Mr Bellevue!

Excellent info! Thanks for including triple seven. And for the info on your last reply about triple seven not needing black powder lube

Thank you for the info on weight and volume

Excellent video ! I will be referring folks to this video so they can understand the powder dispensing and loading of BP and smokeless powders.

Crystal clear bud 👌 Been watching some of your videos and this one made me subscribe

Really clearers the confusion I had with loading substitute black powders.

Excellent video Mike!

I totally. Agree!

Great video. The concept seems obvious but you put it into words perfectly.

Mike you make the clearest explanation of this issue that I have ever heard.

Wish there was a “love” option instead of like! Thanks so much for this video Mike, you’ve cleared up a misconception I’ve had for four DECADES of reloading! Stuart

Thanks Mike that made it very easy for me to understand ,appreciate your work.

Great video, I've had this discussion in the past, you covered all the bases.

Thank you. That is very valuable information.

Good video, glad you mentioned the triple seven..

Absolutely outstanding explanation! Thank you!!!

Half a century ago, one of the loading manuals, I forget if it was Hornandy or Speer gave nearly this exact explaniation. I learned it then and have never had an issue with weight vs volume. Thank you!

Great video very good information thanks

Fantastic video Mike! Every shooter of BP, be it muzzle loader or cartridge reloader should see and learn from this video. Thanks

I just bought an 1863 shilo sharps rifle Your video on making paper cartridges was a life saver. Thank you so much. I will be trying 777 in it as black powder is hard to get here.

scary if people reloading their self, and they stay beside you att the shooting range. And they not understand that simple things about powder measure.

Good video. Was all prepared to give a "qualified" response, but you covered everything. Again, good video. Black powder measures are indeed, marked in accordance to the actual "grain weight" of black powder, 2F size. Black powder SUBSTITUTES are made in such a fashion that the PERFORMANCE of that substitute is based on a "one-to-one" relationship to black powder VOLUME (because black is routinely measured into a firearm by volume). This allows normal BP measures to be used equally. They SELDOM "weigh" the same exact weight. The most important "take-a-way" is to quit worrying about the actual "weight" of black or black substitutes.

Thanks Mike. Good stuff........ .

You are spot on with this tutorial, so no one could argue against this , the only reason that black powder came to be measured by volume is because when it was originally used no one had the equipment to carry in the field to weigh the charge, no problem with a revolver as you cannot overload, but with a long arm you could put any amount in by guesswork , so the powder measure was devised, black powder will produce energy by weight, so it is, like all other propellants, weighed, it is just that we have the technology to make volume measures that are consistent in measuring the same volume, which of course, depending on the density of of the powder will all weigh the same, but you will never convince the volume measuring people !

Thank you for the expert education 😊

This and Jake at everything black powder explains it all , if you cant get your mind around this simple physics of measurements , then load your M 1 ping and big foot , and drive full speed to the nearest water filled canal. Well done Mike , and I forgot about the dowels again , it really helps for precision.

Hei Mike thanks for sharing your knowledge and wisdom,I have been hand loading and reloading for many year's and many calibers but I always learn something from you. It would be fun to see your die collection

At my local gun shop a guy was in there convinced his Powder measure was inaccurate. I told him to check it with a scale. The old guys behind counter became unhinged because you measure black powder by volume only and it’s different. I exited the conversation at that point because you can’t tell a 60 yr old guy behind the gun counter ANYTHING.

A video like this was long overdue. I figured this out, but it took me a while. It's the prevalence of substitutes that adds to the confusion. Most of us starting out find the the Pyrodex or 777 easily anywhere, but it's much more difficult to get real black. The information about compression of substitutes vs. black is also useful, and as far as I know is mostly passed on by word of mouth as I have not found much literature on that. Thanks for that.

thank you!

Good explanation!

Excellent explanation,thank you very much.

thank you.

After the last video I had absolutely no confusion. People just over think this. Ur last video was spot on.

Volumemetric dispensers are the most common on presses, Dillon PM, Hornady PM etc. You are correct, most powder measures are volumetric, dispense weight adjust to you get the desired charge weight. Don't forget about the powder measures that dispense in weight, suck as the RCBS chargemaster and the like. Good stuff.

Very clear, love the content and style of you productions Mike. I’m going to load bp in my 44.40 1892 Chiappa, so timely. Greetings from England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

This video picks a sore point I've had since I first read about loading black powder by volume and NOT by weight. I have written to a number of companies and asked them how they determined the correct volume of their powder measure was without first weighting the powder. I have never gotten an answer from any of these folks.

Excellent! Thank you for posting this.

thank you

Thank you

Great video , clear , concise and accurate . 👍🇬🇧

Thanks great explanation.

I found it nice and clear. 👍

Great video. I will use it next time this subject comes up!! Last year at the range I was loading some 45-70 with an old lee loader. Of course everyone is interested and the crowd gathers. I was using lee dipper and unique powder. Of course this turned into a massive discussion about weight vs volume. LoL

I always used Goex back in my revolvers. Bought 1 can of pyrodex just before I stopped shooting black powder never opened it. Great video sir

Great 👍 video

👍👍 great explanation!

great info. jumping into a topic that people fight over endlessly just for fun? whats next best BP lube, flint vs cap, will a tiny air gap make your gun explode? one thing that often is never mentioned is that the black powder when manufactured is pressed to a standard density of 1.7g/1 cc. the pucksa are then broken up for grain size and sorted. this means that all black powder kernels have the same density finer powder weighs a bit more than coarse powder because their is less air gaps between the kernels. but the volume measures are designed for FFg at the standard density. the lee scoops are made with a similar idea but are calibrated to the greatest density allowed for a particular type of powder so they will not throw heavier than listed. with the bp measures some people think the marking were set arbitrarily because they don't get the exact same weight as the measure is set to never bothering to think about lot to lot variances or that how you fill the measure can have an affect on its reading.

When using Triple 7 to load a fixed cartridge, such as a Metal Case or other material, you Must use 2F size Only . Use of other than 2F in a Fixed Case Results in Detonation. This Warning is on the Triple 7 Container.

Very good video.

I didn’t know I understood this topic incorrectly! Thanks for fixing me!

Excellent video…

You're absolutely correct with your explanation. Weight is very consistent provided the scale remains accurately calibrated and functional. Volume is just another way of saying how much empty air space is being displaced by this solid product. Now enter Density through compaction, etc etc. Ergo ... If the load were a super fine ground powder and it was loaded while in a vacuum chamber and compressed with enough downward force to just equal the strength of the casing to withstand any buckling or outward expansion, etc. With these parameters controlled, then said loads could be duplicated such that the resulting overall volume of the powder required would certainly increase, and at the same time increase the required weight of each charge, in that upon detonation of each round, the results would probably replicate with reasonable consistency. Of course, given the overall collective pressed mass of metals and propellent, there is the possibility that a heavily compacted shell could actually turn out to be an unstable explosive device in disguise, simply because of ratio divergents from usual and normal specifications for ammunitions.

I weigh all my charges ; regardless of powder type. Powder measures of all manufacture have one thing in common. The hopper above the measure is susceptible to stacking. Stacking is the more powder that is in the hopper , the larger the charge will be. Fill your hopper to the top and weigh the charge. As the powder level falls so does the weight being dispensed . All my measures have a baffle about an inch above the bottom with a 1/2 inch hole for the powder to pass. Stacking , for the most part has then been eliminated. No matter how full your hopper the flow into the lower chamber will remain constant. I refill my hopper when it gets about half way down. I still weigh them but I only will need to add a very small amount to bring the load to the correct weight. Problem solved . UniFlow , Lyman , Dillon , Hornady doesn't matter.

Some of those involved in black powder, wishing to establish themselves as a sage, occasionally tout the dogma that Black powder should only be measured in volume. I weigh every charge but only for my own idiosyncratic tendency. Good video!

Great explanation for an often confusing topic. Maybe it would help for the powder industry to publish an uncompressed density in grains per cc on the containers.

I'm not disagreeing with what you said, but think about the trapper in the 1820's. He didn't have a scale and of course a scale would not have been practical. while wandering around the Rocky Mountains. Charge were determined by a certain volume- i.e. powder was poured into a set sized container. In battle, many soldiers probably just poured the powder into the barrel since they would have been in a very big hurry. Black powder, pyrodex and 777 all have different densities. This is key, since 777, for example, has more energy than black powder per unit of mass (weight grains). Conventionally, black powder is measured out by volume, not weight (mass). Smokeless powder is quantified by weight (mass) in grains altho once your charge is determined by weight, you can adjust your powder measure to throw a certain amount (volume) of powder which is the practical and most efficient way to reload smokeless cartridges. For my hunting rifle (.300 Win Mag), I always weighed each charge since I rarely shot more than 20 cartridges in a season. And I'm aware that in a smokeless cartridge at full power loads, a tiny variation in powder can greatly affect pressures whereas black powder offers a lot more leeway.

I will be ordering me a scale today, I also wanted to try out Triple 7 and bh209 since I already have a container of each that I have for my son's in line hunting rifles. My biggest concern is safety because I am shooting my hand loads in a Taylors cartridge conversion cylinder for my two Pietta new model Army revolvers and I don't want to damage them or get hurt. Thank you. Very good information video, thanks for sharing.

Thanks Mike. At the end of the day, black and smokeless are measured the same way. They each have mass that needs to be calculated. Because black has so much less energy per tenth of a grain, it doesn't really need to be measured as precisely as smokeless. A grain of variation in black powder doesn't matter at all in terms of safety, but it absolutely may matter in a smokeless powder load. That's probably why volume has been the standard in how black powder is dispensed. Also, black powder is the only type used in loose-powder applications like muzzleloading. You can't really weigh your charge with a scale out in the field.

It can't get no planer than that. Good job breaking it down.

Always enjoy your videos. FYI, I am not being notified when you put up a new video.

Hi Mike, thanks for these reloading videos, Really great information. I especially like the .38 colt with .375 bullets. I want to start reloading those. I'm looking forward to your .45 episode your working on. Please also do one on 44wcf, I would find that quite exiting. I have several babies that haven't any food. I just got a Uberti 73 short rifle in 44wcf and don't know when it will be that I will be able to feed her. I also have a Uberti Remington with a .45 cylinder that cries daily because it's also never had a meal. Please pray for food for my babies in AZ. Love your channel

Very informative, thank you so much. 👌🤠👍

Thank you Mike. You are one of the great teachers. I thank you for that knowledge. Now I can see the warnings of volume not weight. Makes sense. Joe Security.

When I shot Black Powder Cartridge Silhouettes, I weighed every charge when loading 40-65.

I have been handloading *safely* for more than fifty (!!) years, Mike, and learned something from this video. The best explanation I have ever heard about weight vs volume, and I did *not* know that 777 does not like to be compressed. I plan to use it in 45 Colt for Cowboy Action shooting this coming summer. Thank you!!

Good video👍👍👍👍

Excellent presentation, the only change I would have made is that I would have taken the drum out of your RCBS powder measure and shown that it works just like the black powder slide measure. Now, can you do an episode on the use of drop tubes and perhaps powder compression dies?

Great information video 👍. Just bought a cartridge conversion for my Remington new model army. What load of unique do you shoot in yours? I’ve cut some cases down to Schofield size with Elmer Keith 255 gr bullets and they shoot quite well. Love your videos; keep up the great work. Thanks 😊

I hope your video is having some impact. I frequently come into discussions with muzzleloader shooters who tell me that BP is measured in "volume-grains"... and when I ask which powder, what granulation, and air humidity are the base for the "volume-grain", they just stare blankly, or just repeat what they said before. Quite a lot of people don't seem to understand, that you can't measure weight in volume.

Confirms what I thought.

When loading my muzzle loaders I will load with a volume measure. However I have to weigh a volume of black powder to determine if my home made powder has the same density. Say I use 100 grains by volume of 2F Goex black powder. I will weigh that and then compare it with the weight of my home made powder. Since my powder is screened and not corned it is always less dense. My first batches of powder were 40% less dense than Goex so I adjust the load. 100 grains of Goex equals 140 grains of home made at that time.

Now if a person is on a weight loss diet plan, it always works out better to gauge by volume and let the scale get a break. What difference does it make if you're 10 pounds lighter, the real question is, " Can you look straight down and see your feet, or is there a volume of body mass blocking your line of sight?" Just don't chamber a round if the idea of not admiring your own shoes is too much mental anguish to handle. Proudly boast instead that you've lost 100, 000 grains of protoplasm due to spending all available grocery funds on... You guessed it... Gun powder and ammunition perfecting and loading equipment and supplies.

I think a lot of the confusion also is from people who were raised in the metric era or had metric ideas forced into them as in the metric system weight and volume are interchangeable when using the standardof measure, which is water at so many degrees Celsius where as in the imperial and much superior system that decent God fearing people and Countries still use, weight and volume are used measured separately for different materials, liquids and solids/powders,etc.even metals depending on their use have separate measures 1 Cubic centimeter is also one milliliter of water which also weighs 1 gram at standard temp and pressure. kinda handy if your working with water but awkward for basically everything else including ironically, ice which expands about 9%.

Can we say "myth busted" ? Ha ha ha, thank you very very much for this clear demonstration. I wish you good !

I think this is one if your best vids ever, Mike. Very informative. I'm very interested in loading .45 Colt with BP and want your thoughts on the importance of any sort of wad under the bullet. Absolute necessity to prevent lube contamination or is it good to follow St. Elmer's technique of scooping a case full, striking off the excess with your pocket knife and just cramming the bullet on top any old way and run with it?

Have you ever talked about Trail Boss powder? My understanding is was designed being so fluffy, it’s almost impossible to overload. I’ve “heard” fill it to the top, put the bullet on compress, crimp and away you go. Thanks for the great videos

Thank you that makes it clear, can you recommend a good reloading manual?

Best explanation ever for this subject. 😎 Since substitutes requires less volume but don't like to be compressed, we should concern about filling the gap between the powder and the bullet right ??? 🤔

When Using my powder hopper(on the lee turret with rod removed), I must throw away the first two charges, because of all the vibrations caused by sizing and decapping(i do sets of 25) there is more weight in the volume of the powder hopper, instead of 5,8 grain N340 I can have 6.1 grain powder in the first charge so if I dont throw back the first two I have 2 charges of 6.1grain and 23 that has 5.8 grain, always measure with a scale

Would you clarify the appropriate bullet lubricant for BP substitutes such as Pyrodex RS in cartridges? Can one use smokeless lube in bullets with shallow lube grooves when they are propelled by a substitute? Thanks for your wealth of knowledge!