Anyone who passed high school physics knows that volumetric measurement is next to worthless as far as consistency goes when stood next to measurement by weight or mass. Flour for instance, uses volumetric measurement in baking recipes and will tell you wether or not to *pack* it. That's because *packed* flour allows WAY more substance in the *same* amount of *volume* and the same is true for black powder. Finer grain allows for more powder in the *same volume* . Weight or mass measurements however don't have this issue. A gram is a gram, a grain is a grain (in weight NOT volume) no matter the situation, mass and weight don't change in any significant way.

I absolutely LOVE this channel LOL! Jake is turning the Black Powder world upside down. Alot of the people in this thing believe what they have heard other Crotchety old geezers Regurgitate that they themselves had other Crotchety Old Geezers tell them! Like me Jake COULD NEVER hang out at muzzleloadingforum LOL. Another great video Jake,

Thanks, you made me laugh showing those comments. I've been loading black powder( cartridge & muzzleloader) for 30+ years and for most of that time I weigh EVERYTHING. Early on every magazine article I ran across advised only volume measurement. After I started weighing things, I got the same snarky comments about my methods. I learned to respond "I'm more interested in accuracy than convenience", which I really am. So what it takes a little more time--this is supposed to my hobby that I enjoy doing!!

The sarcasm was thick in this public service announcement! 🤣😂

Thank you so much for this mornings fun. I am laughing my fat ass off. I have met those same folks and heard their arguments. Still can't believe they lived through puberty. Keep up the great content. I have to stop laughing enough to pour coffee...

Well said, I definitely can understand the misunderstanding. No store around me carries real black powder anymore. For those who are interested in some of the history of the standards. The U.S and British militaries worked off the standard weight by volume measurement of 1.7g/cm3 and used a grain size of RFG (rifle fine grain, don’t quite me on that part), which translates to roughly 1fg today (16-20 mesh). The charges (for a .58) where then measured to 60 grains by weight. The whithworth rifle for greatest accuracy was often weighed down to the tenth of a grain then poured into a glass vile until ready to load.

That was a good, thorough, explanation and I think you’re exactly right that the substitutes are the cause of the confusion. In videos, I’ve always recommended volume measures for substitutes (and I typically use them in the field for black powder too), but a lot of people don’t know what those are based on. Good video!

I just love to smell of black powder in the morning. Or anytime. I also love your final comments aĺways makes me smile. Keep up the great work.

I've been shooting BP for the past 10 years. I found this out to be true when I was reloading 45 colt with 2F. Just out of curiosity, I weighed my charge and it darn near came out to the volume measurement. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

A lot of the old books actually specify by weight or volume for certain charges of black powder. I believe that your right, I never heard of all this volume only crap, until the substitute crap came out. I mean, that's how we got the lines on adjustable measures, when we made custom ones, was by weighing the black powder.

You have rapidly become the 'Go to Guy' for Black Powder.......Keep'em coming Jake!!

You are spot on about on this subject. 2 F & 3 F are even closer to the exact weight v volume. 👍

When I’m loading ‘plinking’ black powder ammo I just use a scoop. When making ‘match’ ammo for accuracy I weight it so it is EXACT. I love that bp is close to the same weight to volume. Then the substitutes had to come in and mess that up, another reason to hate it(subs).

🤣🤣🤣🤣 your killing me !!! Stop please lmao

Something interesting regarding the black powder substitutes is I’m looking at my Pyrodex P can right now and it says on the back in fine print “Not to be loaded in cartridges”. But yet some of these same mouth breathers who say “blackpowder must be measured by volume” will also say “yeah it says that but you can load it in a brass cartridge case” so on the one hand they generalize a rule made for substitutes to all blackpowder but yet won’t follow the other rule which was made probably for liability reasons. Also it just shows their historical ignorance because there are periodicals from target shooters going WAY back into the early 19th century and measuring by WEIGHT was the preferred method for target shooting because it was more accurate and more consistent. Honestly this fudd lore that keeps getting toss around like so many diapers at a retirement home is so annoying to have to break down and deal with because to properly deconstruct where the myth and rumors come from yah gotta spend about 10-20 minutes in explanation and most of these idiots have the attention span of a gnat.

Love the Educational Values your channel drops down!!! Around Black Powder. JUST AWESOME I like to watch at the club/range throw it up on the big screen, watch everyone cringe!! Well 1 for calling them on their bullshit, 2 Best Part IS PROVING IT!!!! I have been kicked out and barred, banned and blocked from forums, ranges and clubs I love it. Some of the others that have sided with me want me to start my own, club/range might have to burnt it at a 75 mile radius spouting truth and proof. Last one I even used their scale and measures and powder showing the validity of weight is volume. OOOOHHHH BOOOOYYY!!!!! you`d think I was practicing black magic in a church in Salem in 1693...Man great stuff

i just load by the volume that gives the desired accuracy. Weight, I believe varies on brand, lot, components, and moisture content of the powder. at last that is my experience and i have been shooting black Gunpowder since 1950. but thank you for the effort you made doing this good and clear explanation.

So glad you put this information up ..

One again, great video! Keep um coming.

When I am in the field I rarely have a scale. It is great that black powder works out to the same number when measured by volume or weight. Keep in mind that it is not an accident.

Thank-You.

Just another myth like M 1Garand ping , which is better , the 9mm or 45 ACP {1960 era} , cant use pointed bullets in a lever gun , {1903 information} , and I tested this 4 years ago with modern components with a 12 foot drop test , and then there's black powder , { cause great grandpa said it was so} , its simple , some people where to tight pants , funny hats , look at the phone too much and drink coffee way to much to understand simple physics and measurements , digital measurements give the best accuracy , period in a black powder firearm , Jake and Mike Bellavue give the simplest answer and describe what there speaking of , if you cant wrap your Pickatic California mind around something sooooooo simple , then get your black powder weapons , put them in your Audi , get some $8 coffee and drive into the nearest water filled canal. Great work Jake , well done , as always.

Love these videos. And thanks for this one. I saw a fud’s face melt when I told him to Google “grain” while I stood there and watched. Yep, it’s a measurement of weight.

Great video a lot of people need to see this.

Good point. Weight vs volume with black powder is a distinction without a meaningful difference.

Great short😊

Fifty years ago mama would preweigh all our loads before going to a match. She was the accuracy police. Thanks ma.

AT the age of 12, i shot my first .45 musket (40 years ago). The friend used Pyrodex because that's all he could get. But as a good mentor he made sure i knew the difference. At 13 bought my first BP pistol, a CVA colonial kit, shot Pyrodex in it and most of my other guns still today. I have made and shot lots of real BP over the years. i definitely know the difference. Pyrodex is still the easiest and cheapest to get in my area.

Oh a keep the No BS up. Love it brother.

I definitely hit the "Like" button on this video; there needs to be a "Love" button! Thanks for both educating and entertaining!

I was thinking that it was by weight. Thanks for clear it all up.

Well gaulldang that's just crazy talk. Seriously love the information you put out for someone that doesn't load a lot of black powder. But I definitely learn a lot from you Jake thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I weigh all of my powder all of the time. I weigh it in grains and store it in plastic test tubes , as you mentioned. I am sure a lot of people do. I do this because it is definitely more consistent. I have tested this with Goex and swiss powders in both 2f and 3f . And with several different charge weights through a chronograph. The extreme spreads and standard deviations were much tighter, weighing it in grains on a scale . When I shot those same loads using an adjustable powder, measure the averages on my chronograph where much more inconsistent for sure. Consistency is a pretty important thing in my opinion .

This may be extremely obvious. I suspect that the reason black powder is traditionally measured by volume was just for simplicity and speed of reloading. Since black powder is a relatively weak explosive it was, and still is, a satisfactory way of measurement. A few grains one way or the other just didn't matter for hunting or military accuracy. Of course, you can weigh black powder charges, you just don't have to for acceptable performance and safety.

Good video thank you.

WMcB: This really is hilarious....stop worrying about some flatearthers...🤣 you simply can't fix stupid...these people will just fall of their earth onto the the next one... if they want to stick to their "70" mark - GOOD for us when we are shooting in competition 👍- awesome show ! Keep it up !

Once again both edifying and entertaining. Someday you'll be in the Black Powder Hall of Fame!

I really enjoy your channel and learn a lot. Love the humor too. Please don't melt the earth 🙂

I weigh ALL my BPCR cartridges, and I compress all of them for accuracy! Consistency is key to accuracy.

really like your videos..,i am still looking for alder buckthorn,,

I can only find Pyrodex, so I Have to do Volumetric measurements... You CAN measure both powders volumetrically... you can also weigh them. Pyrodex is Lighter, so measure it by volume, then weigh it.

Yep, I hear this all the time

A good scale does not lie. These mass produced volumetric measures are made with little regard for calibration, other than it's close enough. You can literally make one yourself that's more accurate. If a measure says 70, but my scale says 66 I'll make a new mark for 70 based on what the scale tells me. Real BP of course. I don't think grain size matters.

Tried it with 2f. Every time the difference was 5 grains or slightly less. I used every volumetric measure and every weight scale i have...it is consistent.

Spot on ✅

The "measure by volume" comes from the time before cartridges when everything was muzzle loaded. BP was manufactured to a standard density and loading by volume was, and still is, the most "field expedient" method for determining a safe and "proper" charge for an old school smoke stick....

Hang in there brother!! It don’t take all kinds, we just got’em!! Great job, again!!

Great info! If someone is serious about getting into shooting black powder they really should understand the chemistry of Black/Substitute/Smokeless. Too many people don't bother to learn anything!

I started using Pyrodex some 35 years ago because it was about all there was that was sold in the rural area i lived in. I always used it in cap locks and brass cartrudges and it always worked out well. As the decades ground on, i was able to fine some traditional black powder. It cost twice as much as Pyrodex, and in cartridges i found it did not comoress as well as pyridex does. Pyrodex always gave higher velocity, which is something i appreciate when hunting.

Thank you. I've toyed with this loading my 45-70 for use in a 1884 Springfield.

You are hilarious, love your videos, keep well and raise hell. Dave & The Girls

Because so many people have been using the brass powder measures to load their guns, it has been cemented into their brains that this is the only way to measure black powder. What they dont realize is that in order to make a volumetric powder measure, we first must know how much volume is taken up by 10 grains of powder. How do we know how much powder is in 10 grains? We use a grain scale! We weigh the powder!. I find that I have to explain this to the average Joe shooter quite a bit.

As we say over here GOOD SPEAK Jake , you are on the money 💰 😊

6:00 being the general mood of most online forums these days

Hahahaha, Fudd busting, 1 grain at a time, I love it!

I shot BP for over 40 years in the N-SSA and always weighed my charges when working up a load or when shooting individual competition. I do use a powder thrower for team competition once I set it up by weight. I just never trusted the vagaries of a mechanical hand held powder measure. My methods have served me well for decades

Guy you are too funny. Maybe you should try your hand at standup some day, LOL. I used to be one of those blackpowder snobs and then I got educated. Keep up the good work!

I cannot facepalm hard enough to deal with those who don't get that BP charge measuring tools calibrations are calibrated to measure a set weight based on the volume of that weight of Black Powder

We do expect to see a Snider video...lol I would love to see a Keith SWC sized up to fit a Snider, I bet it would work great. I love those old guns.

Well, from all your videos I've seen, I am very sure you know what your doing. I've been shooting black powder for 47 years, and I have learned a few things from you. I think your awesome so I don't make my own damn video lol (love that ending)

This has got to be your best video. I thought I was the only person on this rock to know this. I almost came to blows with a man over this years ago about this. My father, grandfather, great grandfather and a great granduncle loaded shells this way and my great granduncle made ammunition in the civil war for the south at powder mill near Jefferson Tx. (Black Powder) I still make my powder by the same formula/ method that has been passed down though years and it still works fine and I load by weight are volume with no problems. B/P is not rocket science. But it is a lot of fun and isn't that what we are lookin for?

I weigh my charges for my two 1860 army revolvers loaded with 220gr Kaido bullets for the nightstand. I also weigh each bullet to get the best consistency. Out in the field I just use the power measure and shoot .454 round ball for fun.

That end bit about substitutes - I'm one of those people that weighs his Pyrodex. For a muzzleloader. But I wouldn't be caught dead with a speedloader - give me a paper cartridge any day of the week.

Most knowledgeable guy in black powder. Great channel. Informative and entertaining. You had me at “space time continuum” ha ha ha

Facts, you're doing the Lords work sir! Also you don't get recommended in my feed I have to actually search you out. I missed your last 3 videos till just now FYI

Cracking! that the best thing to do with pyrodex - sling it, or use it as a door stop.

Black Powder is of such a density that the volume equals the weight. I never have had a major difference of more than a couple of grains with 2F

Judging from the way my pants fit, I believe I'm measured by volume too.

This is funny shit!!! I’m quite sure back in the day a powder horn was used and the amount was close enough!🤣🤣🤣🤣

I’ve been shooting black powder for over 50 years, and shoot between 1500 to 2000 shots per year, sometime much more. I always weigh every shot even carry weighed charges when hunting. It’s much more reliable from shot to shot and consistently repeatable results. It may not be customary or traditional, but it’s the best way when your serious about your shooting.

When I was learning to make my own gun powder I learned how to determine the difference in density of the powder I make compared to factory powder. It is done by weight. I fill my measure with the volume of powder I normally use in a shot then I weigh that. I then match that weight with my home made powder. It usually turns out my home made powder is about 20% lighter than factory. I then put the weighed amount of powder in my volume measurer and that is the charge I use.

If a charge of black powder (NOT subs) is consistent and there is sufficient compression, it really doesn't matter HOW the powder is weighed. To really show the haters a little sumthin' sumthin', you might consider comparing extreme spread (ES) and standard deviation (SD) of thrown vs. weighed. Oh, and are these purported experts aware that volumetric measures don't all agree with one another?

Melt the Earth's core? Inner core or outer core? The Bullen discontinuity is at approximately 10,800 degrees F (6000 deg C). Core is already partially melted, so if you want to go to full melt, you will need to weight out grains of BP (Black Plutonium) since compression at the core due to ambient pressure (3.6 million atm, 51,204,036 psi) makes volumetric measurement problematic. Can't use pyrodex cause it burns up to only 4000 degrees F and it would cool the core, reducing the actual melting already there. Great video!

You gotta love Fudd lore.......

i always weight the powder and put the charges in a little flasks, its more precise

i have been loading antique muzzleloader powder for 50 years using a powder scale.. shot to shot are more consistant.

No chemist would messure by volume, only by weight but if you want to load your rifle with your alway the same volume of blackpowder it doesn´t matter.

I think back in the day, there had to be a standard for bp. My understanding is that the powder is compressed enough so that it weighs by weight the same weight as water by volume. Ie 30 grains of bp by volume weigh the same as that volume of water. Water was easily available everywhere, so it was a good standard. Measure out 30 g of bp, now fill that same measure with water, guess how much it weighs? That is for real bp of course. Btw I make my own also, of course it's not as dense as commercial, so I weigh it:)

Great

Those substitutes are weighed into those containers. You can bet on that.

Good video. Chemistry is hard for most folks, so they treat it like magic. This is where the dogma comes from. BTW, are you using the dry mill or CIA method on recent batches?

Say it again for the people in the back!

Cool video ! That may work with commercial stuff. I've been making my own for ten years+. When I first started doing it a chronograph loads comparing it with commercial. So every time I make a new batch 5 lb or more. I re chronograph it. Never the same depending on what charcoal used in making it.

Speaking of snider. I had a skirt tare off a miniball in my snider. Good thing i found it in. The barrel and didn't shoot again. Guess its a tad too undersized Lol. Been planning on makeung a reamer to widen the lube bands a smidg. Looks like thats much higher on the to do list now

I don't think to worry about loading about black powder unless we loading with smoke less powder

And yet those people say BP is measured by volume so why don't express the charge in cc's and not grains? I always weight my powder for both cartridges and muzzle loaders, in fact I don't have a volume measure anymore. I made the mistake of asking the internet for BP/Pyrodex weight equivalents and you can guess the responses ! I did find a proper answer however weight of BP charge x 70% gives you the weight of Pyrodex charge.

I think the idea that black powder is measured by volume came from cartridges and the importance of leaving no air gap.

Congrats on a multi million view video! Commentors can be a little set in their opinions. Today, one guy told me not to explore a video subject he didn't approve of "or else" it would physical in so many words.😃

Ever since I saw a video of you bring it up, I have been weighing my muzzleloader charges with Black Powder. The only sub I liked was BlackMZ and it’s gone so what can I do? Anyway I weigh out the charges and put them in speed loaders or charge tubes. Yep it really is that simple that I want the most accurate charge consistency I can get and weight seems to solve the problem. I don’t know how long I have been weighing them but it works out for me and feels natural being a reloader already. I did tap the measure and would sometimes get noticeable differences between shots.

The volume measure is the less accurate one. And on that note, I have tested my volume powder measures and they read like a five grain difference between them. That little difference is the amount of powder that misses the muzzle. And now I'm curious if one measure was designed for a different grain of powder.

This made me laugh my a off! Think maybe they measured it in volume in the old days because toting a scale around the frontier was a bit less convenient than a brass powder measure?

BTW, when I want to create 12/70 on BP for close distance -> one LEE scoop (it goes like 50grains of 3F powder), then some wad, 24gram of shot. Boom! When I want to get stronger 12/70 for clay shootin then 2 scoops, it goes like 100-102 grains of 3F, then wad, shot, BIGEER BOOM! Simple.

Sum it up in one word, consistency. IF I were loading BP cartridges I would weigh it also. Space time continuum, earth’s core, that was good! Lol

😂 ha ha ha ha, when he throws the pyrodex! My buddy tried it in his muzzle loading deer rifle, and can’t stand pyrodex.

That’s freaking hilarious. Probably not over yet!#3 in the making yet?

I weigh my triple 7. Powder. I use 77.8 gr by weight which works out to be 110 gr by volume. That's a hot load with a 250gr shock wave bullet. But your right Jake you can get yourself in trouble using a substitute than with real black powder. Weight or volume always know your guns limits. This is what happened to savage arms and the 10ml muzzleloader. People were fooling around with smokeless powders in them for power and cleaner burning powder factor and barrels started coming apart. Lyman had trouble to made by investarms and Lyman paid the price. I only use substitute powder in guns made for it.

Buy it by the pound too LOL. I would prefer a weight to a volume measure.

Yeah unfortunately the comment section usually has one or two people that really shouldn't have even happened. They exist in the wild in unfortunately high numbers too. I quit taking walk ins for guns smithing because of it.

Of course it can be weighed. You just need to allow for grain size. It is measured in dippers and measures for convenience.

Those folks should break themselves free from the nay sayer’s “rule book”, and do their own research. Its like they only trust what has been said and never finding the truth!