Mercedes’ trick rear suspension on its F1 car explained

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THE RACE

THE RACE

2 жыл бұрын

Mercedes’ 2021 car produced the biggest talking point of the United States despite the team failing to win the race.
By now you’ve probably all seen the footage of the W12’s rear end sinking rather dramatically down the straight at the previous race in Turkey.
This rear suspension trick is not quite the magic bullet some people might have assumed but it has proven to be a very useful tool in the fight against Red Bull.
In this video we explain exactly what it is you’re seeing and how it works.
#f1 #mercedes #formula1
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Пікірлер: 1 000
@paulleiser1278
@paulleiser1278 2 жыл бұрын
In my opinion Gary Anderson needs a weekly episode or something where he just talks about topics like these for 15 or 20 minutes, man sounds like a genius and it would be awesome to listen to
@joostin123
@joostin123 2 жыл бұрын
I think he's on a podcast on The Race or on another show
@mikemack7933
@mikemack7933 2 жыл бұрын
Remember he's human and needs time to think about these things
@chevydyall7619
@chevydyall7619 2 жыл бұрын
Yep love everytime he's on the bring back back v10s podcasts
@868686mauro
@868686mauro 2 жыл бұрын
Gary Anderson always has the drink.
@LJTEAM0723
@LJTEAM0723 2 жыл бұрын
God, ever listened to the actual podcast.. apart from his technical knowledge, asking him a question or his view on the race and he just waffles on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and........................
@stevehoot99
@stevehoot99 2 жыл бұрын
More from Gary Anderson please! Was an excellent video with just the right level of technical depth.
@Th3_Gael
@Th3_Gael 2 жыл бұрын
I'd prefer more detail but you're right, a job well done
@venkatakrishnaiahpaladugu9133
@venkatakrishnaiahpaladugu9133 2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 Cringe
@ulver1187
@ulver1187 2 жыл бұрын
Who knew he's doing this aside from darting, what a legend
@WilsonCo.
@WilsonCo. 2 жыл бұрын
pp poo poo
@Firebolt1729
@Firebolt1729 2 жыл бұрын
Always fascinating to see teams push the boundaries and find loopholes to gain as much performance as they can
@Alchemist2328
@Alchemist2328 2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 Jesus is a myth 😂
@Hoops-Senior
@Hoops-Senior 2 жыл бұрын
Except it is not a loophole, it's a characteristic of the design. If it were a loophole Whiney Spice would still be crying "FOUL".
@Hoops-Senior
@Hoops-Senior 2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 Who?
@auzanasyraf4551
@auzanasyraf4551 2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 C'mon man, that felt out of place
@herewegoagain7403
@herewegoagain7403 2 жыл бұрын
more rules create more innovations. that's why F1 is the pinnacle of motorsports
@alexgreen2747
@alexgreen2747 2 жыл бұрын
Well this made much more sense than hours of Sky F1 trying to discuss it lol. The analogy for going ‘over centre’ with gas struts in a car tailgate was a great touch. Thanks team, in particular Gary.
@theelf152
@theelf152 2 жыл бұрын
Sky are like the old court jesters, just making gooses of themselves for F1 owners. I wish they’d just stfu during race weekend.
@rhyswilliams4893
@rhyswilliams4893 2 жыл бұрын
These merc engineers are incredible. Can you imagine the had this system along side the DAS and the completely dominant car last year. Seconds ahead for sure.
@joakimjeppsson1443
@joakimjeppsson1443 Жыл бұрын
Mercedes had a totally different rake concept in 2021 compared to 2020. The 2021 was a high rake whilst the 2020 was a flat/low rake. With a flat rake the gains would be very small, if any
@jkartworks7388
@jkartworks7388 2 жыл бұрын
OMG, the best video I found to watch a 3D representation of this system. Thank you very much. I really love this part of the F1
@AZ-tu4wm
@AZ-tu4wm 2 жыл бұрын
Same! It’s fascinating to see the technical side of F1
@crztank9298
@crztank9298 2 жыл бұрын
Note the animation for the system under aero load is incorrect. They show it as a traditional pull rod under individual wheel movement and a pushrod under the aero load.
@SmashGhost
@SmashGhost 2 жыл бұрын
Ferrari has the over-center / non-linear diffuser stall, too.
@Firebolt1729
@Firebolt1729 2 жыл бұрын
Didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.
@Stockholmsstolthet1891
@Stockholmsstolthet1891 2 жыл бұрын
and Alpine
@Alchemist2328
@Alchemist2328 2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 Jesus is a myth. 😂
@pradeepsaklani3835
@pradeepsaklani3835 2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 I'll start believing if he can make Mazepin win the 2021 championship.
@halsoy
@halsoy 2 жыл бұрын
@@pradeepsaklani3835 That's a tall order even for a god. Let's settle on him not having more spinouts this season :p
@bhew7409
@bhew7409 2 жыл бұрын
the moving diagram was a thing of beauty, good work to whoever made that!
@raisu_5864
@raisu_5864 2 жыл бұрын
its from the mercedes f1 youtube chanel in a video about how suspension works.
@jabug_1144
@jabug_1144 2 жыл бұрын
Yea that looked like straight up Cad files
@brzk_
@brzk_ 2 жыл бұрын
these videos are miiiiiiles better than the officila f1 tech talk videos, their video about this explaned abolsutely nothing and just showed wich teams are doing this and wich arent. great work guys, really really good and informative video as always 👍
@Kareem_Benjamn.
@Kareem_Benjamn. 2 жыл бұрын
And they make 5 minutes seem like ten
@philipbarton3456
@philipbarton3456 2 жыл бұрын
The F1 Tech talk videos are designed around the least common denominator and has to dumb itself down dramatically (because ratings are key, this is entertainment after all.) Also having an ex F1 technical director on staff will inherently give a journalism team inherent benefits when talking about technical things like this.
@marzoukkadri5964
@marzoukkadri5964 2 жыл бұрын
video literally started with saying its a guess lol F1 is official and i like that
@brzk_
@brzk_ 2 жыл бұрын
@@philipbarton3456 yeah I guess that’s true. Good point
@Addyboy0190
@Addyboy0190 2 жыл бұрын
The thing about the suspension, maybe Merc can't run the soft setup because of the bumpy track surface in COTA, they could have ran it on friday but opted not to due the possible damage on the underside
@swappysins
@swappysins 2 жыл бұрын
Yes, very logical. As they weren't as fast as they were on Friday on straights
@hectornecromancer5308
@hectornecromancer5308 2 жыл бұрын
Not to mention the track has elevation in some places
@SeaTacDelta
@SeaTacDelta 2 жыл бұрын
Much more of this please. Really well explained and the graphics helped understand the movement of the suspension.
@PenryMMJ
@PenryMMJ 2 жыл бұрын
A few years ago Mercedes introduced FRIC suspension, which was essentially similar in operation to the type of suspension fitted to the Austin Maxi. It was within the rules at the time, though it was subsequently banned. Now Mercedes have introduced positive squat under power on the rear suspension, just like you got on a Triumph Stag. It seems that F1 can learn a lot from British Leyland
@basedpetrolhead
@basedpetrolhead 2 жыл бұрын
Well, there is a big number of Brits in Mercedes F1 team
@allanhughes7859
@allanhughes7859 2 жыл бұрын
We britts know what we are doing Maxi Stag what great great cars L.O.L......... Owned both glad I was in the A.A. and R.A.C. needed both at times !!!
@DjDolHaus86
@DjDolHaus86 2 жыл бұрын
Lets just hope it holds up better in the rain than the Stag
@Bahamuttiamat
@Bahamuttiamat 2 жыл бұрын
@aa aaa Fric was banned in 2014 bud. A few years ago.. and like this technology every team was running their own version. Squatting f1 cars is nothing new, it's decades old technology.
@PenryMMJ
@PenryMMJ 2 жыл бұрын
@@Bahamuttiamat Not sure why you're trying to start an argument mate. 7 years is a few years isn't it? and triumph road cars having positive squat suspension in 1970 does show how old it is.
@jeffcanyafixiy
@jeffcanyafixiy 2 жыл бұрын
Great analogy with gas struts on passenger car. 👍🏁👍 This channel does a GREAT job getting all the insider tech explanations from F1.. Can't say enough good about what ya do. 👍👍
@andrewjohnston3840
@andrewjohnston3840 2 жыл бұрын
This was great news more of this type of technical explanation of how F1 cars actually work.
@Hitchhiker3000
@Hitchhiker3000 2 жыл бұрын
yes for sure need more of gary anderson, this by far is the best explination of the system i've seen here on youtube!
@adamaldridge3443
@adamaldridge3443 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Gary Anderson’s analysis have always been awesome. Definitely more of that please!
@HMoore615
@HMoore615 2 жыл бұрын
There’s literally an article on auto sport from 2017 about this. It isn’t new, Merc has had this for years. Same with Red Bull and Ferrari
@4777hamza
@4777hamza 2 жыл бұрын
but in 2018 it was changed back to the conventionals
@Bahamuttiamat
@Bahamuttiamat 2 жыл бұрын
@@4777hamza No. What he's talking about is the front heave spring. Mercedes used a hydraulic 3rd heave element in the front, till that technology was banned for 2020.
@nickbowman7102
@nickbowman7102 2 жыл бұрын
Always love Gary’s insights
@henriwolbrink
@henriwolbrink 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info. Hardly ever we see tricks explained in so much detail before the end of the season.
@turps0
@turps0 2 жыл бұрын
Solid video, very informative, I appreciate the in-depth technical analysis.Keep up the great work
@or2kr
@or2kr 2 жыл бұрын
It is worth mentioning that the diffuser is straight up unable to work as well on a low rake car as with a high rake car and since diffusers are more effective at creating downforce compared to the drag they create, hence why Red Bull for example doesn't even need a large wing to reach competitive levels of downforce, so the non linear suspension setup is more a mitigation rather than a magic rule breaking device
@procatprocat9647
@procatprocat9647 2 жыл бұрын
You are underestimating the impressive level of ingenuity being illustrated here.
@MauriceWijma
@MauriceWijma 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting! I think they use the geometry of the suspension and bumpstops/packers to keep it just over that point and not further, so it won't get locked into the lower state. In all the years I watch and read about racing technology, I have never seen such a simple but effective idea.
@michaelboyce3227
@michaelboyce3227 2 жыл бұрын
Another advantage to the rear squatting at high speed, that was somewhat mentioned though not specifically said or explained, is when the car squats down it also reduces the *angle* of the rear wing, making it more flat thereby reducing drag further. I think this is a key aspect to the design that shouldn't be overlooked as it seems to be an important piece of the puzzle. It's amazing how large of a performance increase (or decrease for that matter!) can be made by just a degree or two change in the wings on these _high_ downforce vehicles!
@alismitheman1819
@alismitheman1819 2 жыл бұрын
These technical videos are always a good watch and relating it to a real world situation always helps people understand the philosophy and it’s operation.
@jussayinmipeece1069
@jussayinmipeece1069 2 жыл бұрын
so to recap , Mercedes was laughing their asses off at the beginning of the season when people were talking about "movable rear wings and ride height" then they said "hey, wait a minute, mmAAAAYBEEE if wee...guys we have an idea...."
@fredmac1251
@fredmac1251 2 жыл бұрын
Apples and oranges...both fruit but not the same.
@turban51512
@turban51512 2 жыл бұрын
These systems have been in every singe team since 2016
@jussayinmipeece1069
@jussayinmipeece1069 2 жыл бұрын
@@turban51512 the type suspension system was pioneered my Malaren way back in the day but nobody has wanted to use it the way Mercedes has because its much harder than it looks. Look at how hard Lewis car is to drive. He just can get the front end planted as much and he cannot match the Redbull out of the corners because he just cannot get the power down quick enough because of the lower down force he picks up just as the defuser is transitioning to the stall angle.
@ezr3725
@ezr3725 2 жыл бұрын
@@turban51512 2009
@philipB82
@philipB82 2 жыл бұрын
sooo truuee
@dave9614
@dave9614 2 жыл бұрын
I think it'd be quite cool to have an in depth analysis of the mass damper system, and Alonso's corresponding driving style from his Renault days.
@SGTStubble
@SGTStubble 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Thats for this, really makes this info digestable and easy to understand
@totodisenyolo2762
@totodisenyolo2762 2 жыл бұрын
You guys are the best and make us enjoy following F1 and especially the technical side. Great work
@reisanibal1
@reisanibal1 2 жыл бұрын
The bumps in CotA saved the day for Red Bull.
@paoaiipi5580
@paoaiipi5580 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder how merc will be at Mexico because at tracks redbull we’re meant to be strong merc dominated like turkey but merc we’re meant to dominate in cota but redbull dominated
@basilthomas7464
@basilthomas7464 2 жыл бұрын
@@paoaiipi5580 yeah its so confusing i think they are equal considering all factors and max and lewis is pushing it to absolute limits in race days
@arry5432
@arry5432 2 жыл бұрын
@@paoaiipi5580 Mexico seems to be a good track for RB though. Even back in 2018, I thought they would lose massive time in the long straights, but they got pole quite convincingly with Danny. And I think max won that one too.
@danbruno5945
@danbruno5945 2 жыл бұрын
Don't be surprised if merc dominate last 5 races in this very very unusual tense year between Lewis and max
@jinni9957
@jinni9957 2 жыл бұрын
The first thought that came to mind of how this could work aside from the diffuser is that when the rear is lowered, the angles of all the wings on the car are straightened, sort of how drs straightens the wing, therefore reducing drag. Wonder if that makes a significant difference too in straight line speed.
@Enzo-mn8jp
@Enzo-mn8jp 2 жыл бұрын
makes a lot of sense actually
@christiaronamaronlauronpah8665
@christiaronamaronlauronpah8665 2 жыл бұрын
secondary drag reduction system lol! would be super cool if it did work that way
@MeltingRubberZ28
@MeltingRubberZ28 2 жыл бұрын
There might be a little benefit there, but stalling the air under the car is a larger effect for sure.
@Szaboo92
@Szaboo92 2 жыл бұрын
It tilts around 1-3 degrees, not a major difference, but every bit matters ofcourse
@KillCamEditoR
@KillCamEditoR 2 жыл бұрын
@@Szaboo92 1-3 degrees is a huge change regarding angle of attack !!!! Yes it’s less impactful than flow separation but changes the entire computation.
@kevinw8258
@kevinw8258 2 жыл бұрын
More like this please, it’s the technical stuff like this that makes F1 so interesting to me👍
@samuelrodriguezrivera6856
@samuelrodriguezrivera6856 2 жыл бұрын
Almost all of the frames on your videos are worthy of a Wallpaper!! Jaw dropping footage 👍
@hordleydesign
@hordleydesign 2 жыл бұрын
This is old news in F1, teams have been running what are called 'collapsible rear springs' for years. When I joined Toro Rosso back in 2017 they ran the same system. I'd be surprised if there was a team on the grid that didn't have it at some point
@hectornecromancer5308
@hectornecromancer5308 2 жыл бұрын
The question now is.....is there a legal limit tolerance like flex wing does?
@hordleydesign
@hordleydesign 2 жыл бұрын
@@hectornecromancer5308 There's no limit governing suspension travel for a given load, only body work. So these systems are legal. However there is a directive next year that prevents the use of the gas operated collapsible springs. So teams that have one will have to find a mechanical means of achieving it (like the system Gary is explaining). However its unlikely such a system will be beneficial next year due to the change in the floor regs
@franyetso4899
@franyetso4899 2 жыл бұрын
@@hordleydesign I feel like the show would be a lot more fun if the aero regs were tighter and the suspension rules were more open. Less CAD and virtual engineering efforts at destroying the flow for the following car, perhaps MORE passing on driver and chassis merit?
@andrewbailey7999
@andrewbailey7999 2 жыл бұрын
I always like listening to Gary when he puts this stuff into his own words. He's a great addition to your podcasts!
@zachbirnie9494
@zachbirnie9494 2 жыл бұрын
these videos and this channel has hugely benefited my understanding of the sport. cheers.
@PokeBowl82
@PokeBowl82 2 жыл бұрын
wow, brilliant explainer !! nice visuals as well and a nice pace !! 💪🏽
@Deano.1978
@Deano.1978 2 жыл бұрын
Man those F1 engineers are clever, I can imagine that they are probably only 1-2mm of spring/damper compression away from disaster in high speed corners. Getting the setup so finely tuned to prevent LH and VB spearing off the track using this system is an art form
@rogerkeesmekers5081
@rogerkeesmekers5081 2 жыл бұрын
I think that's the reason it should be banned. If LH or VB have to evade something with high speed in the straight line, there's no downforce at all to help them to keep the car under control. Senna died because of his car being to low.... Just saying.
@CarlosdCover
@CarlosdCover 2 жыл бұрын
They made that rear suspension for compensate the power they lose at stop overworking the engine. They dont had the top speed advantage in the USGP, suddenly disappear.
@aibelmanayil2573
@aibelmanayil2573 2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 shut up
@eduardofindlay4518
@eduardofindlay4518 2 жыл бұрын
Because it wont work for every track, for México long straight believe it will
@1barnet1
@1barnet1 2 жыл бұрын
@@eduardofindlay4518 Well if you have highspeed corners you cannot allow the diffuser to stall. imagine losing 60% of downforce in copse silverstone and where the car would end. I'd say where Verstappen was in the wall. but then without contact. System would be tricky to set-up in Mexico with high speed corners 7-8-9-10-11. Corner exit T10 = 260-270 kph. T11 is flat even with no wings. That leaves them a very narrow opportunity to stall the rear diffuser and benefit from it. Basically just the main straight from 280-290kph and up. Also the lower air density means the floor will work less adding complexity to the equation. That said Mercedes will be unbeateable in abu dabi.
@eduardofindlay4518
@eduardofindlay4518 2 жыл бұрын
@@1barnet1 that’s why they are able to put more rear wing without producing drag, the diffuser is not stalling during the corners
@1barnet1
@1barnet1 2 жыл бұрын
@@eduardofindlay4518 true, but the downforce level that squashes the suspension rises with speed. If you have 270kph corners where you need all the grip then you see the problem with this system. There isn’t much speed left to exploit the benefits. As it won’t trigger until halfway up the straight. It isn’t a gentle decrease like the bendy wings. An stalled diffuser means 50-60% downforce gone in an instant. So the team really needs to tune it that it won’t occur in fast corners under any circumstance. The driver has no chance catching the inevitable slide.
@anthonyschmidt-ellis6353
@anthonyschmidt-ellis6353 2 жыл бұрын
This is amazing. Thank you THE RACE. Your insight and explainations are amazing.
@zippo5294
@zippo5294 2 жыл бұрын
Great content guys! More of Gary’s insight please!
@henrik1743
@henrik1743 2 жыл бұрын
Mercedes : Noooo your Red Bull wing flexes too much on the straights waaaaa Also Mercedes : Makes the whole car change rake angle on the fly
@manuelight
@manuelight 2 жыл бұрын
and lets the FiAMG sing off on it...
@bas7905
@bas7905 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly. And dont forget, pitstops are too dangerous since redbull is getting too good at them! Lets quickly make that illegal!
@bas7905
@bas7905 2 жыл бұрын
@VERY EVIL PERSON FROM ILLUMINATI lol love the name btw. But, the flexible wing was also to fia spec before merc started whining about it... And, lets be honest, not all dutch people are max fans. Just 99.9%. But that really shouldnt matter. Mercedes is being a little bit of a whiny baby now they are getting a bit of a challege on track.
@Hoops-Senior
@Hoops-Senior 2 жыл бұрын
@VERY EVIL PERSON FROM ILLUMINATI Good answer, and I'm betting he has "MAX WOZ 'ERE" tattooed on his lower back. ;)
@kityhawk2000
@kityhawk2000 2 жыл бұрын
@@Hoops-Senior more like tattooed on his butt
@EliteSkid123
@EliteSkid123 2 жыл бұрын
This is the reason why I'm subscribed to this channel. The way Gary Anderson describes the system reminds me alot of the William's fw14b that had a button on the steering wheel to lower the car and stall the diffuser.
@marzgrab
@marzgrab 2 жыл бұрын
Great technical incite , more Gary Anderson needed!
@braedenryan2562
@braedenryan2562 2 жыл бұрын
we need more gary! Analysis of each new car in 2022 would be amazing
@FrontSideBus
@FrontSideBus 2 жыл бұрын
Here is a bit of trivia. The Williams FW14b was noticeably slower than the FW14 down the straights. What was happening was as the speed increased, the increasing downforce was pushing down on the rear suspension and stalling the diffuser when it reached a certain point which reduced drag. The active suspension on the B car was compensating for this hence the lack of top speed compared with the passive car. Once this was found they altered the control system to allow the suspension to be compressed and they even had a mode activated by a button on the steering wheel which dropped the rear almost onto the floor and raised the front... almost like an early DRS.
@eduardofindlay4518
@eduardofindlay4518 2 жыл бұрын
But in other hands the Mercedes drops to the floor due to airflow , completely legal.
@FrontSideBus
@FrontSideBus 2 жыл бұрын
@@eduardofindlay4518 Nothing in the rule books about having rising or in this case falling rate springs either lol.
@BentleyWilkinson
@BentleyWilkinson 2 жыл бұрын
"the back drop to all of this". I can see the writer for this episode smirking
@toddb930
@toddb930 2 жыл бұрын
What a great explanation. And you even read my mind and answered the question about RedBull adopting this technique. I'd like to hear more Gary Anderson thoughts when dealing with technical explanations.
@mindawakening3873
@mindawakening3873 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks you for the video. Awesome content as always ... 👏👏
@virtual_GaRy
@virtual_GaRy 2 жыл бұрын
8:28 The primary purpose of the suspension system is absolutely aerodynamic, yaw, pitch, roll and ride height have a massive impact on aerodynamics. Sure, it is balancing the mechanical grip as well, but it is a smaller factor than 3x the cars weight in downforce
@hugostiglitz7
@hugostiglitz7 2 жыл бұрын
The system is hydraulic though, taking lines off the heave damper to an auxiliary volume, to affect the spring rate above a certain rear vertical load amount. The trick is to control the temperature of the hydraulic fluid to work for as much of the race as poss. Toro tried it in 2017 and had problems with temperature, took 20 laps to get warm enough then had last 10 laps too hot, so RRH was unpredictable, so they reverted to conventional in 2018. Red bull know how the system works, so this whole thing is quite surprising.
@allanhughes7859
@allanhughes7859 2 жыл бұрын
Tottaly agree what was that you said again ??
@hectornecromancer5308
@hectornecromancer5308 2 жыл бұрын
To think that the system, from how it works, has a purpose that benefits the high rake concept
@asehgal
@asehgal 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome explanation. Thank you for dumbing it down and adding nice animated bits
@anthonycondon5833
@anthonycondon5833 2 жыл бұрын
I think I totally understand this now. The combination of graphics, metaphor, and technical knowledge is absolutely excellent. I didn't really get the 'over center' bit until the tailgate example was given, but once I did, and could see on the graphics how it was actually being achieved, it was almost intuitive. I am not an engineer, but I am a writer; this is a truly impressive piece of media, well done guys.
@PhazerMike
@PhazerMike 2 жыл бұрын
I believe if they can perfect this suspension setup, it will be highly advantageous when we switch to ground effect next year
@Alchemist2328
@Alchemist2328 2 жыл бұрын
@@alunesh12345 Jesus is a myth 😂
@walleyjm
@walleyjm 2 жыл бұрын
agreed. will be interesting to see what kind of impact this has next year with more emphasis on ground effects.
@chrismdb5686
@chrismdb5686 2 жыл бұрын
@@Alchemist2328 Not trying to start a war in the comments but your comment is factually incorrect from every angle. Even atheists acknowledge he existed and the Biblical texts regarding his life are rooted in fact, there's no question about that among historians of any type.
@brm9993
@brm9993 2 жыл бұрын
How would they utilize it with ground effect? The cars will already be so much closer to the ground
@-BuddyGuy
@-BuddyGuy 2 жыл бұрын
@@chrismdb5686 Yaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnn
@Calvin1911
@Calvin1911 2 жыл бұрын
While I tire of Mercedes’ dominance on the sport, their innovative mind is something to applaud. They’re always thinking and scheme on how to work around the rules. It’s no wonder they’ve dominated for so long. Hats off to you Mercedes. 👍🏻
@dougfile6644
@dougfile6644 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Fascinating topic brilliantly explained. A+
@ChrispyNut
@ChrispyNut 2 жыл бұрын
Clever. Props to whomever devised and proposed this setup along with the team for pursuing it. I'm still surprised there'd been so little discussing this season (mostly in the first half) about the loss of DAS for mercedes and how much that helped everyone close the gap on them. Much of their performance loss had been their inability to control tyre temps, having designed much of the car with DAS in mind and then not having the development tokens to really mitigate its loss.
@friktionrc
@friktionrc 2 жыл бұрын
Seems to be a lot of people upset that RedBull got penalised for the flex on their wing….I’d politely suggest they go and read the rules for F1 found on the FIA website. Then once done, go back and read it again so you actually understand it. The majority of top level racing is about understanding the rules, working out the loopholes and exploiting them. This why we had stuff like active suspension, 6wheel F1 cars, double chassis, ground effect etc etc etc on F1 cars in the 1970s, 1980s etc….teams (designers/engineers etc) read and understood the rules and exploited them. Once the performance gains were shown, the FIA slowly banned them all. It’s worth noting RedBull accept that the design at play here by Mercedes isn’t actually illegal, where as the flexibility in their wings were - in short they were too flexible and flexed in more than one plane…..the benefit is that the car would change based on speed of air flowing over it as well as direction of air flowing over it….think of it like the active wing on the McLaren Senna….then only difference being the RB wing bends too much with the wind, where as it should only flex a bit.
@hectornecromancer5308
@hectornecromancer5308 2 жыл бұрын
Could be either camera trickery or the regs still allows it to some extent This suspension system was used by top teams, only on Mercedes case, it goes rather drastically like how the RBR wing flexes
@friktionrc
@friktionrc 2 жыл бұрын
@@hectornecromancer5308 def agree that sometimes the camera angle has something to do with it, but deffinitly it was negated at this track because of how bumpy it was....and anyway even RedBull didnt object tp this as Merc studied the rules....all this makes me wonder whether this will be tech that willbe seen in the 2022 cars.
@markfr8543
@markfr8543 2 жыл бұрын
Article 3.2.2 of the technical regulations; "The Aerodynamic influence of any component of the car not considered to be bodywork must be incidental to its main function. Any design which aims to maximise such an aerodynamic influence is prohibited." This rule directly contradicts the legality of using the 3rd spring as a mechanism to stall the diffuser. Yes all teams use it to some extend but when rules keep being pushed it will become illegal. It's inevitable.
@pablenmo
@pablenmo 2 жыл бұрын
It is considered legal because the one who is exploiting it the most is Merc. If that huge exploit was done by RB this will be very different
@markfr8543
@markfr8543 2 жыл бұрын
@@pablenmo yep, Mercedes can get fast changes to the regulations or sporting code when it regards their competitors. But whenever Mercedes is the target of something the FIA is deaf, slow and inconsistent
@WimvdBrink
@WimvdBrink 2 жыл бұрын
@@markfr8543 They just search the boundaries of the regulations, just not cross it, have an advantage, the FIA says it will be legal this year but next year not so nobody else can use the same thing, and next year Mercedes finds something new. It's smart of Mercedes but if it's highly sportsman like is another story.
@MoMo-pd5hu
@MoMo-pd5hu 2 жыл бұрын
Mercedes can't be accused of anything with this regulation !! Two aspects are essential here: 1) they use the whole aerodynamic part of the car very intelligently to maximize the effect. I think everyone understands how complex the calculations and simulations behind these settings are. 2) There is nothing extra to lead to this effect by prompt or electronic order. I find the idea brilliant, especially since you don't have much freedom due to the imposed technical conditions, to integrate a passive component in the geometry of the suspension to obtain such a result. And this fact, in compliance with all the conditions imposed by the regulations. That piston works all the time with the rest of the suspension components.
@pablenmo
@pablenmo 2 жыл бұрын
​@@MoMo-pd5hu If the Mass damper was illegal and considered as an "aerodinamic device" this should also be considered illegal and a aero device... If you say it is legal, I'm 120% sure you are definetly a Ham/Merc fanboi What you think about the trailing edge of the Mercedes rear wing?? absolutely legal right?? All that "flexi wing" controversy against RedBull, and now Merc is the one with the Flexi Wing
@wybird666
@wybird666 2 жыл бұрын
Such an excellent and fascinating video. Very clearly described, and what a cool bit of engineering. At the start of the season, Merc/AM were complaining about being hit harder by the new aero regs compared to the high rake cars, but this shows that with a bit of inginuity and hard work, they can work an advantage out of the low rake system. It also goes to show how the advantage can ebb and flow between teams throughout the season and that RBs advantage earlier in the season does not make the rest of the season a slam-dunk. Bring on the last three races!
@y3vts1
@y3vts1 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent video, really enjoyed that. Thanks 😊
@markgaal5839
@markgaal5839 2 жыл бұрын
Gary.... while I understand and appreciate the explanation in this video, it is pretty 101 with respect to what I understand about diffuser stall. Where I'm at a bit of a loss is WHY Merc is gaining an "above the norm" performance advantage from utilizing simple diffuser stall. Specially, what is puzzling to me, upon looking at the videos, is the NON-LINEAR action of the Merc's rear suspension when entering onto a long-straight vs. a high-speed corner. Expounding, it seems like Merc is able to cause the rear suspension to "pop" upwards (or the body downwards) irrespective of the speed of the air flowing over the car on the straight, meaning the lowest possible rear-ride-height is achieved very-near the START of the straight rather than at-or-near Top Speed; however, this same pop-up movement isn't present upon entry to a high-speed corner. This to me would SEEM like a mechanical device independent of the aerodynamic effect of higher speed air flowing over/under the car. Care to expound?
@gambinoi8078
@gambinoi8078 2 жыл бұрын
What he said
@illdeletethismusic
@illdeletethismusic 2 жыл бұрын
yes, there has to be more to it the car jumps back up under braking right away too, when it is still much faster than the point at which it sinks at the beginning of the straight
@BNOVA
@BNOVA 2 жыл бұрын
They can tune how the aero load affects when the suspension lowers. It is dependent on the front wing as well. Redbull may be thinking of plementing it as well as the were seen testing the aero load on the front wings at COTA.
@gjna5143
@gjna5143 2 жыл бұрын
@@BNOVA Not like that
@ajithambalakat
@ajithambalakat 2 жыл бұрын
it seems the 3rd element (heave) is allowing the suspension collapse on the straights, at high speed corners the corner elements take the most of the load, the heave element is not compressed like in the straights. due to lateral loads, the outer element will compress the heave and inner element will try to expand it. Also Merc might be using the pitching action during the acceleration to instigate the collapse of the heave element which would explain why it pops at the beginning instead of later at higher speed.
@moos7005
@moos7005 2 жыл бұрын
yes and because of the bumpy nature of the us trak they couldn utilize it, im sure they went back to normal setup on friday loosing performance. This gave redbull the edge.
@walleyjm
@walleyjm 2 жыл бұрын
Interesting thought. I had assumed, like mentioned in the video, that it was simply the high-speed corners in Sector 1. I could see the bumps also playing a part, though I wonder if the load from the bumps is sustained enough to trigger the stall.
@Ben-go1iq
@Ben-go1iq 2 жыл бұрын
We shall see , especially in Jeddah
@muhammadirfanataulawal7630
@muhammadirfanataulawal7630 2 жыл бұрын
@@Ben-go1iq Red Bull will use no rear wing to compensate Merc's lowrider
@chevonhicks4815
@chevonhicks4815 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent breakdown, thank you!
@humesey1
@humesey1 2 жыл бұрын
FINALLY!! an explanation as to why RB cant launch a complaint. Thankyou.
@aashisheapen8230
@aashisheapen8230 2 жыл бұрын
It's not a RACE explanation video without them mentioning Gary Anderson
@josephciepluch2400
@josephciepluch2400 2 жыл бұрын
I love mercedes for being very intelligent with its design. DAS was a great example, in my opinion they have the best engineers on the grid. Thank you for this explanation, I truly enjoy the videos! Keep up the great work!
@TheTororist
@TheTororist 2 жыл бұрын
now aston martin has just poached their chief tech engineer for next season
@davidcolin6519
@davidcolin6519 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheTororist Which may, or ma not change everything. Personally, I think it will change very little because the secret to getting good ideas to a place where they can be used is in having a structure that encourages original thought while being able to effectively filter out the unworkable ideas. It's a very fine balance which comes from the whole team setup.
@JayV86
@JayV86 2 жыл бұрын
Quality, quality content. Thank you!
@aaronaaronsen3360
@aaronaaronsen3360 2 жыл бұрын
That was a great video. A bit technical but understandable, thanks Mr Anderson !
@Vok250
@Vok250 2 жыл бұрын
TLDR: it's just good suspension tuning, like Mercedes told the press. Perfectly legal and very impressive.
@tonysunny8927
@tonysunny8927 2 жыл бұрын
Well explained. Such genius innovations 👏👏
@Ruylopez778
@Ruylopez778 2 жыл бұрын
Teams have been doing this years.
@buffalo182
@buffalo182 2 жыл бұрын
Very informative, enjoyed this
@raceyrache8463
@raceyrache8463 2 жыл бұрын
I loved your animation on the suspension so much I took a screenshot. Well explained for the average punter.
@Unamatrix01
@Unamatrix01 2 жыл бұрын
Fantastic video, as a mechanical engineer, I absolutely love the technical analysis of suspension systems and aerodynamic concepts used in F1 and MotoGP. I would assume that Mercedes will transfer this rear suspension design element to the 2022 car, as that design concept is more reliant on diffuser generated downforce than aerofoil/wing generated downforce. This new rear suspension design appears to be a replacement to the banned FRIC (Front and Rear Interconnected) suspension systems that kept the cars flat while out on track, therefore maintaining the maximum efficiency of the diffuser.
@crztank9298
@crztank9298 2 жыл бұрын
Did you notice they animated the system as the pull rod it is during bounce and jounce but animate the aero load as if the suspension acted as a push rod.
@MeltingRubberZ28
@MeltingRubberZ28 2 жыл бұрын
Wouldn't lowering the rear suspension on the 22 car not generate a stall considering it's "tunnels" that generate the venturi effect? Since the 21 cars have a relatively smooth floor, it seems much easier (possible) to make it stall at speed.
@Unamatrix01
@Unamatrix01 2 жыл бұрын
@@MeltingRubberZ28 Both 2021 and 2022 cars diffusers generate the Venturi effect.The 2022 car to a much greater extent since the diffuser is substantially larger in height and length.Lowering of the rear suspension during a straight would have the identical effect and intended purpose of stalling the diffuser and reducing under-car drag.The key is tuning the system as to not compromise high speed cornering.I think substantial time will be spent conducting CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) flow analysis of the new larger diffuser as well as simulation runs to tune the system.Pre-season testing in 2022 will be incredibly interesting to follow and see the developments.What is also quite interesting is the parallel with Mercedes AMG F1 rear ride-height system and Ducati’s rear ride-height system in MotoGP.The Ducati system as well as all other manufacturers systems lowers the rear of the bike for launch,straights and corner exits.
@fredmac1251
@fredmac1251 2 жыл бұрын
@@Unamatrix01 Wouldn't one have to calculate the actual track surface to discern whether the contours on the track would adversely affect the underbody and possibly cause greater damage than advantage so it's not a one size fits all based on the track? I'm not sure but if that was what was meant by Toto when is quoted about a blood bath if they hadn't made changes to the floor? Just curious to your thoughts.
@LnFX212
@LnFX212 2 жыл бұрын
I would like to know how they handle this with a full tank and then an empty one.. Is It adptive? Interesting.
@dughuff8825
@dughuff8825 2 жыл бұрын
Great article; just what we needed with a bit of actual detail rather than just fluff and supposition. No mention of the fact that several other teams are doing this as well though - Ferrari and Alpine at least..
@manfredbrunner4909
@manfredbrunner4909 2 жыл бұрын
well done, brilliant explanation, congrats!
@DenDave_
@DenDave_ 2 жыл бұрын
Mercedes are kings of speed in the way they manage to push the boundaries of the regulations. Makes it all the more impressive that Verstappen is fighting Hamilton so hard in their championship battle.
@jamal1493
@jamal1493 2 жыл бұрын
Red bull is far superior this year as mercedes have been superior previous years
@zeezmusic7245
@zeezmusic7245 2 жыл бұрын
@A Jamal Red bull has a superior car ? Really ? Then how do you explain Valteri being 3rd with so many fuc*ed up races and engine penalties ? Valteri is 3rd without trying, that’s how good Merc is. Lando finished almost every race in top 7-8 and he’s still 2 places behind Bottas
@xeigen2
@xeigen2 2 жыл бұрын
@@zeezmusic7245 Max has led 504 laps, Lewis 154. Max has 9 poles, Lewis 3. The Red Bull is the superior car. Perez is making the car look a lot worse than it really is. The fact that Max is still leading despite 3 DNFs tells you how good that car really is this year.
@paoaiipi5580
@paoaiipi5580 2 жыл бұрын
@@zeezmusic7245 redbull have been far quicker most of the season but now there equal
@zeezmusic7245
@zeezmusic7245 2 жыл бұрын
@@xeigen2 you have a good point but I think both Max and Lewis outperform the car and I think they are really close, if one of them really had a superior car the season would be decided by now.
@igordemetriusalencar5861
@igordemetriusalencar5861 2 жыл бұрын
But why the 2 inches flexible RedBull rear wing was considered illegal?
@lmao7439
@lmao7439 2 жыл бұрын
Because this is completely , even horner said
@walleyjm
@walleyjm 2 жыл бұрын
Because unlike Red Bul's bendy wings it's based on existing components that are suspension specific and this effect is simply the result of tuning those components for the greatest benefit. They haven't added a specific component to trigger or control that, like Renault with their mass damper, and it isn't a primarily aero component like Red Bull's wings.
@Pandamasque
@Pandamasque 2 жыл бұрын
It was never considered illegal. All wings bend. An additional rule prescribes a test to prevent wings bending "too much". RBR wing passed the bending under load test every time. Then FIA reconsidered what "too much" is, and changed that additional rule to make the test harder to pass. As a result a bunch of teams, including RBR had to redesign their rear wings to pass the new test. At no point any RBR wings used in 2021 were deemed illegal.
@Appletank8
@Appletank8 2 жыл бұрын
bendy wings are illegal. Suspensions have to move by default, no rules against custom spring rates.
@patrikvukoje6003
@patrikvukoje6003 2 жыл бұрын
@@Appletank8 so why merc's front wing isnt banned,in the way you explain it that should be done?!?
@rpols22
@rpols22 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome explanation! More like this please!
@davideloi9176
@davideloi9176 2 жыл бұрын
Great vid. Very clear explanation.
@CoyMedia5
@CoyMedia5 2 жыл бұрын
This 3d representation is amazing! Can somebody tell me what program they used?
@philipbarton3456
@philipbarton3456 2 жыл бұрын
I would guess it is some form of CAD (mechanical engineering software).
@procatprocat9647
@procatprocat9647 2 жыл бұрын
@@philipbarton3456 I would guess that you are typing on a device with a GUI (Graphical User Interface).
@sandeshjogdand6349
@sandeshjogdand6349 2 жыл бұрын
It looks like CATIA v5 from Dassault system, a CAD platform.
@narwhalyt7231
@narwhalyt7231 2 жыл бұрын
NASCAR figured out something like this years ago. At Daytona, teams made dampers that would cause the rear not to rebound, but to stick to the ground. This kept the rear spoiler out of the air, and led to faster straightaway speeds.
@CASEMSTR
@CASEMSTR 2 жыл бұрын
Totally forgot about that, but you are correct. Tho they reached it in a different manor. Always funny to see those sort of things happen
@WilliamFrick
@WilliamFrick 2 жыл бұрын
Really clarifies the mechanics of it ! Relating to a hatchback tailgate is clever.
@nineelevensouth
@nineelevensouth 2 жыл бұрын
Super helpful guys. I heard the brief comments during the race but was a bit lost. This explains it perfectly.
@Real28
@Real28 2 жыл бұрын
That trick kept Merc in the game. Without it, that race wouldn't even have been a race. So yes, it was a magic bullet. It just wasn't good enough to get the win.
@nail9602
@nail9602 2 жыл бұрын
It’s more because COTA hasn’t got many straights
@tensevo
@tensevo 2 жыл бұрын
POint is, everyone is doing this, and the flexi wing stuff, it's just some do it better than others.
@karl8805
@karl8805 2 жыл бұрын
Theyve been doing it for years as all teams have
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971 2 жыл бұрын
I am not convinced bye the "stall" story, how can reducing the low pressure zone (that is sucking the car to the ground) lower the ride height? I don't know if having additional pivot in the suspension is allowed?, it's imo way more likely they have a mechanical system that drops ride hight at a certain downward pressure.
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971 2 жыл бұрын
@@creampiess I watched it till the explanation, and then stopped. As it makes little sense to me.
@Hoops-Senior
@Hoops-Senior 2 жыл бұрын
@@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971 Not much point commenting, then.
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971 2 жыл бұрын
@@usf976 Edit: your spelling made it look sarcastic, my bad. Lets debate the topic "stalling the floor". We both know rules can be broken.
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971
@itsokaytobeaselfhatingjew5971 2 жыл бұрын
@@Hoops-Senior I watched multiple videos/interviews about stalling the floor...not much point hearing the same story 5x.
@jap322
@jap322 2 жыл бұрын
Great Video. More Gary please
@rafaelvisintin5981
@rafaelvisintin5981 2 жыл бұрын
So nice! Thank you for the video!!
@mikle3351
@mikle3351 2 жыл бұрын
Aston Martin will see improvements soon I guess.
@gabb05
@gabb05 2 жыл бұрын
this is not new, media created buzz here
@glenningram9962
@glenningram9962 2 жыл бұрын
Agree. A weekly Gary Tech Talk would be awesome
@jesselund360
@jesselund360 2 жыл бұрын
Here 3 weeks after this was posted....turns out this helps....it helps a LOT
@infectedharpy5247
@infectedharpy5247 2 жыл бұрын
But if this suspension allows the car to go below minimum rideheight, shouldn't it be as illegal as the RB bendy wing? Both pass the requirements/tests, but the bendy wing was to bendy on track and the Merc is allowed to let the rear drop below minimum rideheight on track. For me, it feels again merc favoritism after allowing DAS a full year but banning bendy wings and changing pitstop rules midseason
@usernameorsomething6270
@usernameorsomething6270 2 жыл бұрын
I agree with you
@petiertje
@petiertje 2 жыл бұрын
I don't know if it goes below the minimum ride height with this, but it certainly is an interesting question. As for the DAS allowed a full season, and 'bendy' wings and pit stops needed to change mid season, I agree. I really don't like FIA changed the rule book twice because Mercedes asked it (wouldn't like it regardless of which team would have asked it), during a season. changing those might be allowed by some rule, but if you can change regulations not related to safety mid season, those rules are just not well written imo.
@tensevo
@tensevo 2 жыл бұрын
All cars bottom out, so I'm not sure what reg is being broken exactly?
@tensevo
@tensevo 2 жыл бұрын
@@petiertje They didn't change the rules, that's the point, they clarified an existing rule with stricter testing.
@infectedharpy5247
@infectedharpy5247 2 жыл бұрын
@@tensevo what reg was being broken by the wings? All cars bend, RB wings passed the tests at start of season. All cars drop under speed by downforce but mercedes seems excessive if you look at the way the suspension is compressed. So to be fair i now away stricter rules on testing of minimum rideheight. We don't want to have another accident with cars bottoming out and losing downforce in a corner. Satefy is to important to wait end season...
@mafiousbj
@mafiousbj 2 жыл бұрын
Let's see other teams trying to prove this is a movable aero device and having it banned ^^
@KayJblue
@KayJblue 2 жыл бұрын
Lol that’s not going to happen. This is very different.
@AndrewFrink
@AndrewFrink 2 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure all of the regs base everything if the floor of the car. As nothing with this system is changing relative to the floor nothing is "moving". Suspension compresses under load, and the movement is dependant on geometry. They could change the rules to require a progressive spring rate all the way to the end stops, but not sure how you would test for that.
@hollandformuleonemma5579
@hollandformuleonemma5579 2 жыл бұрын
Great content!! Love video’s like this ✌🏼 Salute from holland
@TW19567
@TW19567 2 жыл бұрын
Love the technical stuff! Can you do a video on exactly why the diffuser is so critical to a modern F1 car and how that will change for next season with the new regs.
@schweckles1142
@schweckles1142 2 жыл бұрын
If Red Bull did this, the FIA would change the regulations within the week.
@Lanse1984
@Lanse1984 2 жыл бұрын
Oh for sure
@procatprocat9647
@procatprocat9647 2 жыл бұрын
Grow up.
@schweckles1142
@schweckles1142 2 жыл бұрын
@@procatprocat9647 You know it's true.
@procatprocat9647
@procatprocat9647 2 жыл бұрын
@@schweckles1142 Yep. I know it's true that you need to grow up. 100% true.
@crossphaded
@crossphaded 2 жыл бұрын
The fact that Lewis couldn't get the power down in the rear coming out of the corner and muster enough straight line speed makes this trick rear suspension somewhat of a failure for now. Maybe with more miles of development, the engineers can optimize this trick where it actually gives them a marginal advantage.
@Yorkie065
@Yorkie065 2 жыл бұрын
I think the layout of COTA and the bumps didn't help Mercedes this time round. FP1 and FP2, both Merc's looked to be very quick as they were no doubt dialling in the setup and probably testing out the optimum window for this system. Come Saturday, Merc did admit that they had compromised on the setup for the race, as not to ruin the car on the bumps, so they probably adjusted things which in turn made this system less effective. As mentioned in the video, the high speed snaking nature of sector 1 would have meant they would have needed to compromise a bit anyway. Yes the rear wing will provide downforce, but a lot of downforce can be generated through the floor too.
@thelarry383
@thelarry383 2 жыл бұрын
they used this setup in Turkey and were blisteringly fast. The bumps at cota wouldn't let them run the car as low as they wanted.
@travisblake791
@travisblake791 2 жыл бұрын
Well explained and well done. 👍🏻👍🏻
@rocket3man
@rocket3man 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliant explanation as always!
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