This is a very good point actually, especially considering how generally highly reliable the HD 6x0 series has been over the years despite being "plasticky" as well

K712 has great build quality imo, it feels nice and premium in the hands, the leather headband feels very high quality and the pads are absolutely superb. A mega comfortable, lightweight and pretty headphone with superb sound

What EQ do you use ?

@@bandhanjha8563 If you use Windows you can use a software named "Peace EQ". Allows you to make custom eq profiles

EqualizerAPO and then Peace, Peace is just a frontend to configuring APO

I actually think it's even better. Equalizing by graphs alone does not really sound quite as good to me as using graphs as only a guide, and doing the EQ myself by ear

@@metal571 Any recommendations/ideas on dac/amp to match this? I'm new in quality headphone sound world. I've just got K712pro and will be getting a secondhand Audioengine D1 amp/dac to get me going. Later, after waming my feet, will be thinking to upgrade to the likes of O2/Odac, SMSL SP200, Bottlehead Crack etc.

@@JohSno for most people I'd just buy a Grace SDAC from Drop and a JDS Atom. That'll power everything except the HE-6s and LCD4s of the world

@@metal571 Hey, yeap, order now done. Other sites also agrees on Grace's SDAC and JDS Atom. Thanks mate.

Hah that tends to happen, it seems like many people hear similarly to me and those usually become my subscribers :)

Yup, been one of them for several years now ;-) Although, my tonal taste is less towards neutral and more towards mellow sound than yours, I guess. Mostly talking about the "body of the sound". I know it is a bit coloured, but it is very enjoyable to listen to. Cant say that about lean sounding perfectly neutral sound... It also depends on the genre. Thus I tend to switch cans back and forth depending on the mood and the music ;-) I like your channel very much. Very informative. I tend to keep coming back here!

nice

+Max XIII mostly the microphone proximity effect honestly

Wish I could downthumb you honestly XD

or help putting someone to sleep....

I swear I've heard him on GTA San Andreas radio...

Metal has put a lot of money and effort into getting his voice to sound as good as it does. It does not sound like that by accident. He is a very conscientious person in everything he does, I feel. One in a million, or billion, if you will.

+Ivan Aylov yeah 612 still measures kind of bright but the mids look closer to correct from graphs I've seen

can you elaborate how it helps with crossfeed

Lmao I had them for one year and yeah those strings that attach the headband to the frame did loose some elasticity already. I wonder if there's a way to open them up and change those? Maybe you could pull the headband in position and fasten it with some zip ties? Crude I know, but oi, maybe it works.

Where do they make them now? In China? A shop in Czech Republic says they are from Slovakia.

Slovakia last I checked, yes

@@Spyre_aint_it Hi, I got mine in 2016 and they are made in Slovakia. The last batch from Austria in somewhere 2015. Now I see only K812s/K872s are still made in Austria. Anything lower range than K712 are China made like K701/2 K612.

Austria, then Slovakia and now China I think. I also have an Austrian set. One of the reasons I sent them back for repair when one of the pivot pieces broke (my fault, not theirs).

Really no longer Slovakia? Sigh

LOL, no kidding. You can pinpoint exactly where they're standing behind the wall

fuzzybaffy coming from a new audiophile is this better than the 7xx?

+FAST AND B U L B O U S Yes, at least in the opinion of most, these were made to fix some of the issues people has with the K702's (which is what the K7XX's are, same driver), more bass quantity and extension being the main thing, still not bassy by any means, but satisfying, the K7XX's will sound a little bass anemic for a new audiophile.

IISocratesII well rip I already bought the k7xx

How good they are, i have heard that tubes specially on k712 are amazing, more than just different, better, is it true?

TheJAVELIN CoRbAtO yes the sound quality on top of the comfort makes them amazing headphones and one of the most confortable

Which of these two (K712 vs X2) would you recommend more for all-round listening (movies, games, all kind of music)? No matter the price. Thx

Would rather have an HD 600 for all around listening

i love this

Lol if you have Stax I don't see a reason to own these. And you should try the 650 before picking these. They sound way too far off for me to recommend them to anyone for mixing. But who knows, I'm not a pro audio engineer, but I know what monitors sound like, and this deviates pretty far from that.

Technically speaking you are right, the Stax sound better, and have more clarity. On the other hand they are not very comfortable, need a special amp to carry around (and I have a 30 year old SRM-1 weighing 4 pounds, LOL), they are more fragile, and they have a HUGE 2k peak - contrary to the K712 I MUST EQ those. They are what they are, audiophile toys rather than working horses. And perfect for that! If you have the chance to listen to them, use it. They redefined the term clarity in my head. Telling that these sound way off from speakers is a bit ambiguous, since there are significant variances in speakers as well. And you did not even consider the room! This is a common misconception that if a headphone sounds like a monitor then everything is fine and dandy. I think it is more like having good reference points, where you can tell that none of them show significant errors in your mix. Many pros even check their mixes on earpods, as a huge number of the people will hear them on those. I am not a great pro either, just starting this profession, but I find the K712 as a reasonable reference point. If the midrange is right on these is right, it will pretty much sound good on anything else. Also dynamics is an important factor, since many of the processing techniques (compressor, delay, etc) are more time-related than frequency related. My problem with the HD600/650 is that they sound way too polite. I never had this "wow" effect from their dynamics as I had with the K712 last night. Also I find them a bit too dark, but that is just my personal preference. I like sparkling treble. At some point I will definitely invest into an HD800.

+Andras Nelhiebel yeah read my mind. If you need tiny details and don't mind the forward treble the HD 800 sounds like a good tool

Sundara

When did you get these? I got these a day ago and they are just fine but i guess the upper midrange hurts my ears after a long while. Do you know eq for that?

So, could you now share your impressions?

@@flegint they sounded great! Break in period is vital. Very colourful. I didn’t give them much of a chance before moving onto HD800S though.

Well, I'm not sure how high your budget goes, but the 712 is, as I said, going be a problem for treble sensitive folks like you and me.

metal571 Thank you sir. Budget is not that big of an issue, obviously I’d like to get the best bang for my buck, but finding a set that I’ll enjoy is key. Funny that I’ve tried multiple sets ranging from $99 to $600 and to my ear and preferences the ATHM50’s just sounded the best, and I wanted to keep listening to albums. I think I’m going to try out the ATH-1000Z art monitors, being I seem to enjoy AT, ZReviews gave them high marks, although I don’t always agree with him....you should try and get your hands on them. Cheers!

Also, thanks for posting your eq curves, I've used them a few times and seem to work well with my preferences as well.

Just know three things if you go that route. First, reselling that headphone will be extremely difficult so try to buy from somewhere that allows returns. Second, don't expect it to sound even close to similar to the M50. Third, the fit on those high end ATs is generally awful since they are missing an up/down pivoting gimbal for the earcups, which is usually why I recommend going no higher than the A900X/A990Z. But neither of those would be a significant upgrade from the M50 either.

metal571 Indeed, I’m fortunate to have a dealer that carries many different headphones and has also let me return them after a week or so of listening. I will say I do enjoy my HD600’s balanced, with a tube amp. With a bit of high shelf cut and a bit of low end boosted, it’s just I don’t always have time for that system and am looking for something that will work well with my portable Onkyo DPX1A. I did score a set of balanced modded M50x’s that come with a couple custom balanced ends, one 2.5mm balanced end and one XLR so I’m excited to get those in a few days, Even though the M50’s don’t need much power to preform, the Onkyo will utilize 2 if it’s Sabre amps when switching, I’m not expecting to be blown away but maybe a little more detail...Maybe the M50’s are just my headphone. Haha!

Oh boy. 35X measures super terribly so that should be an interesting difference

Which one you kept lol

+indopleaser I find most of the time my impressions tend to match the graphs, but not always. So I'm here to confirm or deny whether the cans really sound the way they measure or not

Wait... Zeos? Sure about that? Lol

no one is as accurate as Zeos when it comes to cables!

And yet *still* the audience thought I was paid to do each one, so buhbye now, but at least we've still got Resolve back over at the headphone show

Nearly impossible to get a sample of each of those at the same time. I've heard them all already though, I'd still pick the 712 every time

+Piwi probably would go through IEM route or grab a Bose QC35

yes

as volume yes, as max performance, no

I have been using AKG 501, 701,702 for years. They are all similar in terms of impedance that way. You need a powerful amp for sure. I found my Focusrite Scarlet doesn't quite have enough jam where my older Steinberg seems to be acceptable but I have a Harmon Kardon receiver and it does them a lot more justice. BTW it isn't just the volume that changes. They take on new life. Better bottom for one.

Will the Fiio K3 or the FX Audio DAC-X6 be able to drive it?

he mentioned that yes

Everybody says that but it's not me lol

+Chad Winters lmao I love this question. All I'll say is he's a cool dude and has a crap load of gear. He knows what good sound is too, but isn't as picky as I am.

It's not even about the amp so much as the fact that Harman has now shown that the average listener expects a bass low shelf of at least of a few dB. The 7xx series always had very good bass extension for being open dynamics of this price range. It just wasn't boosted save for a slight wide midbass "bow" that you can see on just about any FR graph of them

Hey do you know which one of the two has the wider soundstage? Opinions are so mixed on that. From what I read, K702 is wider but less precise, while K712 is significantly less wide but more precise.

Yeah but these days I'd never tolerate them, just too annoyed by the treble. Then again what else is new lol

@@metal571 Update, I got a pair and tried some EQ on it. But I just can't get the upper mids to sound right... even with EQ and doing sine sweeps. You were right about the odd wide hump throughout the entirety of the lower mids. Bass is great, treble has surprisingly good resolution. But in the end, I prefer my 58X actually. I also could not get a proper seal with the pads on my head, so one side was always louder than the other. Maybe not enough clamp, could be a faulty pair but I doubt it.

Can’t say I can help as I’m in the same boat, but I listen to the same exact stuff. I was considering getting DT 990s and then EQing the treble down. But I don’t want to have to readjust it every time a new song plays... Hope you’ll let me know if you find anything!

Depends on how much money we're looking at

Hey dude, thanks for the reply. Not sure about my comrade above, but I was shooting for something under $250. I just got done looking at the AKG K702... from what I read they are good if you have the right amp. I’m still worried that the bass won’t be as pronounced. What are your thoughts? Aside from jazz, I listen to a lot of bass-heavy fusion (think Vulfpeck, Snarky Puppy), also Radiohead. Is there anything else you think I should look into? TBH, I spent the better part of tonight researching this and now my head hurts lol. It would be great to get some direction. I think I’ll make a trip to Guitar Center and try to see if I can listen to some of these for myself. I’m a newb, but I don’t want to get something that I’ll end up hating in a year, you know what I mean?

Listening is believing, and will be the easiest way to find out quite easily if you like things like the quite sibilant Beyers so I'd definitely visit GC

metal571 Hey bud, just wanted to give you an update - after doing some more research and watching other reviews, I settled on the Hifiman Sundaras. It was out of my original price range, but I think I made a good choice. They just seem to be designed for music listening whereas others are more for audio monitoring/production. I’ve been listening to them and I’m really happy: there’s no sibilance and the EQ is nicely balanced. Overall, it’s really pleasant to listen to music through these and I feel like I won’t have to change headphones for a long time after this. Provided they don’t meet with any unfortunate accident, that is. Thanks again for doing your reviews. They were a big reason in why I went with these versus the DT 990s. Btw, if our friend above ever goes back to read these comments - I’m listening to In a Silent Way today and the sound is just coming alive. I’ve got a FLAC file of Kind of Blue on the back burner after this which I’m really excited about. My advice is that you won’t be disappointed by the Sundaras if you listen to jazz. Just make sure to get some good quality audio because it makes a HUGE difference.

+Dominic Boucher if you like the 551 I would get an HD 6x0 series. 600 if you like about the same brightness of the 551, 650 if you like darker than the 551

metal571 You think HD600/650 is much fun and enjoyable to listen than Q701/K712?

+Dominic Boucher I like relatively accurate headphones. Depends. This sounds like something you may have to compare for yourself, I probably can't tell you which you'd like more

Eo! I had these, if you're in EU go for the FiiO K5 (non pro, the one with the dock). This thing was so powerful, I couldn't use it on high gain with the AKGs and they are only 130€ prime shipped over Amazon. Other options are Magni3, Heresy, Atom. I actually would recommend the Atom. It has 1W vs the 1'5W into 32Ohms the FiiO K5 outputs, which was just too much for the K712 Pro's.

@@stanstaniboy7655 thanks so much!

For DAC/AMP combo, go with the FiiO K5 Pro if you're in EU. If not, then there's stuff from Shiit and JDS Labs in US for cheap. I wouldn't buy a cheap DAC though. I only ever had a TEAC UD301 and I swear it's hard to tell the difference between that thing and my on-board PC audio. The Teac has def more details, but it's just not worth it considering how pricey it is.

@@stanstaniboy7655 ah right. I'm not in the EU or the US, but I will check local prices for all of these. Thanks again :)

@@gumbyno5808 oi no problem m8, let us know what you got

If you want more bass out of the Q701s, and are cool with modding your headphones (and probably voiding any warranty you might have), do a search for 'AKG Q701 Bass Mod'. Some claim it makes them almost identical to the K712.

less bass - more control and detail

That would be scary

Yeah this happens to all the AKGs that use this headband. It's fixable but pretty annoying to take all that apart

I still see the K712 hovering around 270 bucks on Amazon US, but they used to be a lot pricier than that. Not sure it's worth it sound wise vs Sundara

I do not know, but any headphone amp is good to drive a 62ohm headphone, especially one with a DAC at 24-bit/192khz.

shush

That's why you probably want to buy a different headphone altogether instead of trying to equalize something this bright and somewhat grainy to begin with

Yeah, it's missing some of the vocal details as well. Listening to D'angelo's "Unshaken" I can't really hear the texture of his voice as I'm used to hearing even on relatively flat monitors. I saw clavinetjunkie's review of the Etymotic ER3XR and I'm really tempted to get it now. Will move on to full size cans again afterwards, perhaps the Elex (if it is that flat and detailed) or something like a DT1990.

Lol I just watched a k712 vs hd599 video from Wheezy Tech, he’s done a great job

@@ludwig2952 Yeah I picked up the HD599 6 months ago for $110 on Amazon and I absolutely love them. At that price it was simply a no brainer for me as that is half the price of the k712's.

Too much treble and mids will cause the final master to be too dark. Too much bass boost will cause it to be tuned bass-light. It is about balance, not forcing diffuse field upon everyone when it doesn't sound like calibrated speakers in a studio room

+Whizme not big on amps, I just use a Modi 1 and Magni 2. Even an E10K could drive these. They're just outside the range of being loud enough to be driven by onboard audio

Whizme I use a K702 and recommend a Focusrite Forte or Audient iD4.

+QuickQips Maybe a tough question but how does - let's say the iD4 - compare to sth like the Modi2/Magni2 stack for pur listening purpose or the Steinberg UR22 mkII / Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 for both recording and listening purposes? It's hard to find a line between "audiophile listening" and "recording voice".

Most solid-state dacs/amps have a pretty natural tuning, although I would say that the k712's are pretty amp dependant in terms of their sound. They actually need decent power to get them sounding good. Fiio E10k doesn't do the job in my opinion, but in terms of entry level amps the schiit fulla 2 drives them decently and most of the cheap smsl stuff should also work

Whizme check out z reviews

i own the 612 pro and the 712 pro. the difference is that the 612's have more blurry details towards the center. the 712's are precise everywere. the 612 are way cheaper

You can ignore them completely. Just copy my frequencies and copy the Q value and dB level into 5 sliders

awesome thanks

I wouldn't, I'd choose HD 650