Mike D'Antoni explains the origins of "small ball"

Mike D'Antoni explains the origins of "small ball" | Enhanced podcast

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Жыл бұрын

In this segment from the Thinking Basketball podcast, Mike D'Antoni explains the origins of Phoenix's Seven Seconds or Less offense that revolutionized the league, the idea of multiple "point guards" on the court, and the tradeoff of playing Amar'e Stoudemire at the center in Steve Nash's 2005 MVP season.
Full video episode: • Mike D'Antoni on the E...
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Twitter: @elgee35
Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
Stats courtesy:
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
#ThinkingBasketball #podcast

Пікірлер: 238

@onelove2230 Жыл бұрын

I found Mike’s perspective on point guards to be very interesting . I don’t think he wants all his players to be literal points guards but he wants them to be able to organize an offense and be the coach on the floor.

@JulioLeonFandinho Жыл бұрын

As he implied, he learned that during his days in Italy as a PG, in Milan every player could organize the team in some way, him because he was the guard, McAdoo attracting defenders, Meneghin with his leadership, and so on... D'Antoni was taking notes

@topshelfdustin3060 11 ай бұрын

Not every player is always going to be able to be the primary ball handler, but as we saw with Jokic. Anyone CAN be a point guard with the ball in their hand if they have that ability. And you absolutely want 5 guys who can do that. It just makes everyone better.

@JulioLeonFandinho 11 ай бұрын

@@topshelfdustin3060 You don't want 5 guys wanting the ball, definitely, and I don't think D'Antoni was saying that

@topshelfdustin3060 11 ай бұрын

@@JulioLeonFandinhonah you want 5 guys who can create with the ball so that when ANY of them have it, the other 4 know by moving off ball they can get the ball back in a better place to score.

@JulioLeonFandinho 11 ай бұрын

@@topshelfdustin3060 ah, when one have the ball and the others MOVE to provide passing options. That idea I aproves, I was thinking about 5 guys wanting the ball and just waiting for it

@MiguelLopez-kc5ww Жыл бұрын

one of the best single basketball podcast interviews ever

@jrniels Жыл бұрын

For me, it’s No Dunks (Formally The Starters, Thinking Basketball, Through the Wire (in no particular order)

@TRXSTA38 Жыл бұрын

@@jrniels Maybe you missed the "interviews" part.

@BMbucky1 Жыл бұрын

This comment made me stay

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

Y'all such butt kissers

@exiledknight3961 Жыл бұрын

One of the best offensive coaches ever.

@dereksupernaut Жыл бұрын

i thought he let the PG run the offense, what is his contribution; Nash & Harden were already top players before D'Antoni??? the Suns players from '05 claim it was Steve Nash in preseason workouts who was pushing the ball & making it clear if you liked running it was time to ball... if the D'Antoni knew what he was doing why did he start a traditional line up for game #1 with Stoudemire at PF in '05, then didn't shoot enough threes in the playoffs v Spurs (look up the stats if you don't believe me)... he just got lucky because his Euro-style jived with the '05 rule changes, not because he was a genius and knew how to adapt to the new rules; had the rules stayed the same he would have been like Don Nelson in the 1990s playing small and winning nothing... fax!!!

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

Yawn

@joelmendozajr01 Жыл бұрын

2018 rockets were the closest team to beating the healthy warriors with durant...

@Giorgos-ee5kn Жыл бұрын

If CP3 didn't get injured in last 2 games, they would be evntual champs imo

@RefRed_King Жыл бұрын

@@Giorgos-ee5knWRONG IF THEY DIDNT CHOKE 27 THREES

@makima2883 Жыл бұрын

@@RefRed_King wrong, if the refs called fair fouls the entire game they would have won game 7, I still remember eric gordon getting sandwiched mid air and there was no call

@JulioLeonFandinho Жыл бұрын

and god it was awful to watch that team

@t4d0W Жыл бұрын

Sure it was close but Draymond still called it right. Just weather out Harden and the Rockets team that is trying to play the math but doesn't have the quality shooters to really force the issue in a 7 game series. Which is why the Warriors came out on top late in the series.

@SSJRome Жыл бұрын

The NBA is what it is arguably primarily because of Mike D'Antoni

@tippylosojos Жыл бұрын

Don Nelson

@maartenvz Жыл бұрын

If only Chris Webber would have been a little tougher we would have already seen small ball in 1995, that team had so much potential, what a waste

@darrengordon-hill Жыл бұрын

And that's why it sucks

@louroc425 Жыл бұрын

Because of his experience in Europe. Because there was a place where ideas can be tested and flourish.

@1vaultdweller Жыл бұрын

@nkosiamakosi7078 He maybe the originator but D'Antoni is the one who took it further and made it mainstream

@TheyreStillOutThere Жыл бұрын

This was my favorite team growing up. There was nothing like them at the time and they were electric. So fast, so athletic, such great shooting. They were also very frustrating at times with the bad defense which really hurt them in the playoffs. They got so close to going all the way a couple times. Steve Nash is probably my favorite player of all time besides MJ just because of those crazy Phoenix teams. God, to go back and see just one more game with that Nash/Marion/Amare squad. It was beautiful.

@lukealbert8539 Жыл бұрын

Mike’s perspective on ball movement and positional it’s sounds exactly like what OKC is trying to build.

@maartenvz Жыл бұрын

I feel this is the exact philosophy that sam presti is following with his build of okc: playmaking is key

@AnacondaHL Жыл бұрын

back during SSOL rate stats and efficiency stats were still poorly understood and far less used. They got a lot of unfair criticism over bad defense because it was always discussed without context of pace, but SSOL defense was actually decent to serviceable.

@spiidey1 Жыл бұрын

The Suns were always in the middle of the pack in defensive rating and other team defense stats. If they had a good, mobile defensive big like a Tyson Chandler or Joakim Noah, they might have reached the Finals.

@t4d0W Жыл бұрын

@@spiidey1 It really came down to matchups. The defensive numbers being decent is good in the regular season when the offense just overwhelms teams on a nightly basis. But in the playoffs you can't really expect to do that when certain teams are more than prepared to adjust and have the talents to do so. That is why the Spurs found themselves winning out the West in the 2000s because the grinded out other playoff rivals better.

@blacknetsmed Жыл бұрын

The only reason their Defense looked "decent or serviceable" was because their Offense was so dominant which made Defense look as if was decent, but teams would blown so early it had an effect on the SSOL Suns' Defense Ratings.

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

No it wasnt

@johndenver7035 Жыл бұрын

As a fan who got very into the game in the early 2000s I very much enjoyed watching this evolution. Steve Nash is still my favorite all time player and I'm not even a Suns fan. The guy played with so much control but so freely at the same time.

@dereksupernaut Жыл бұрын

plus, he won 2 MVPs without being able to guard anyone and playing below the rim on offense making it clear the NBA had devolved into a Euro-Boys league... i am not sure he was better than Marion or Stoudemire in '05... fax!!!

@Dimework Жыл бұрын

@@dereksupernautYou might want to delete that garbage you just spewed

@TRXSTA38 Жыл бұрын

Same. I was a Suns fan by proxy because I was a Nash fan.

@johndenver7035 Жыл бұрын

@@TRXSTA38 it was such a fun era to watch

@TRXSTA38 Жыл бұрын

@@johndenver7035 Absolutely. They never won a title but no complaints. Things don't always break your way.

@mrcoolkicks Жыл бұрын

Great channel man !!! Just great basketball stuff, respect sir.

@kevinle9953 Жыл бұрын

it’s crazy how ahead of the game he sounds even now

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

Oh shutup

@WESTsChannel Жыл бұрын

love this episode

@TheTEN24 Жыл бұрын

This is an awesome and insightful clip I need to listen to this

@youngking0704 11 ай бұрын

a team of playmakers 💯 love the perspective this was insightful

@airongmc6810 Жыл бұрын

Holy crap, you got d'Antoni on your pod! 🔥😮‍💨

@KimWe-a-xler Жыл бұрын

I play this on Google Podcasts whenever I feel lonely. The 7SOL Suns were generational and transcendent, but Coach D'Antoni deserves his props for being one of the greatest offensive minds in the history of basketball.

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

@nephalm5357 Жыл бұрын

Phenomenal stuff

@DanMars27 Жыл бұрын

Joe Johnson deserves more credit

@willhooke Жыл бұрын

He was very important to that Suns team

@MrClebophd 9 ай бұрын

Don't sleep on Shawn Marion. When Amare was out, the Matrix had to deal with a lot; rebound, defense, and running for dunks on offense. He was great, with a great motor and athleticism.

@pesky19 Жыл бұрын

i need a full long video breakdown on nash on the suns from u guys

@johndenver7035 Жыл бұрын

Spurs broke my heart rooting for this squad

@musicandmagic909 Жыл бұрын

HALF THE DEFENSE, DOUBLE THE OFFENSE!

@keepitprivate91 Жыл бұрын

How does this channel still not have a million subs

@southsidepr6573 11 ай бұрын

Thanks

@joeblazey048 Жыл бұрын

one of my favorite teams ever

@drwaffles317 Жыл бұрын

the mavericks really drafted 2 mvps in the same draft. thats just crazy

@brianduru3753 Жыл бұрын

Huh? What two MVPs did they draft?

@jamalwalker Жыл бұрын

I think op thinks Nash was drafted by the Mavericks which is not the case @@brianduru3753

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

Imagine liking this comment

@jamalwalker 11 ай бұрын

@@nonamewillbegiven6847 people really don't know ball lol

@svenko333 Жыл бұрын

Will there be a video about top 10 players in the league this season?

@brendanwisniewski9435 Жыл бұрын

SO happy TB is a very patient and active intervirwer, he definitely understands what it means to pick someone's brain. Of course its hard not to when you genuinely love what you're talking about.

@ifheavenwashuman Жыл бұрын

Imagine if D'antoni would've said screw it, and coached in the NCAA. He'd have plenty of jewelry to show for his unique offensive philosophy..

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

Yawn

@ifheavenwashuman 11 ай бұрын

@@nonamewillbegiven6847 If Bob Huggins & Jim Boeheim can have substantial success through defensive systems, imagine what D'antoni could've done. Hell, the Princeton offense of the 1930's is still being ran religiously throughout college basketball. D'antoni would attract the talent and guys would buy into his high octane philosophy.

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

@@ifheavenwashuman yawn

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

@@ifheavenwashuman yawn

@serge6885 Жыл бұрын

3:20 That's why Denver was unstoppable... they have two point guards: Jamal Murray and Nikola Jokic.

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

1d1ot

@alvin081988 Жыл бұрын

Imagine If Jokic was his Point Guard....I wonder how well if that Offense will be the same or different

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

Shutup

@EmanCollins Жыл бұрын

"Anytime you have the ball in your hand, you're the point guard." Wow, that is a BAR.

@One.Zero.One101 Жыл бұрын

📌I have to admit, I'm a Lakers fan but I was cheering for Phoenix every time my team doesn't play. That team really captured my imagination. Watching them play is top class entertainment.

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

You sound like a damn liar

@jingqi9106 10 ай бұрын

That cheap shot on Nash by Robert Horry might have cost the Suns their best chance at winning a chip.

@djdrake111 Жыл бұрын

Notigang 😊

@phamawa 9 ай бұрын

Would really love to see Dantoni on the Knicks coaching staff, granted they need more shooters. Him and nash coaching brunson on offense would be amazing, imo.

@zechariahcummings489 Жыл бұрын

🔥🔥🔥🔥

@THE.kevman237 Жыл бұрын

PRINGLES GUY!!!

@frostok Жыл бұрын

Hey look it’s my favorite coach

@jackyparkchan7762 10 ай бұрын

Good offence, bad defence approach is interesting

@HLDN1989 Жыл бұрын

Really interesting interview. As a NBA / Dallas Mavs fan (since Luka was drafted) it is wild that the Mavs had a young Dirk (top 5 PF of all time) and Steve Nash (would go on to be 2 time MVP) and didn't resign Nash! What was the front office on during those times? If only twitter / Shams was around during those times!

@dacrewordsmith Жыл бұрын

Great question! (Resident Steve Nash-Mavs-Suns fan here). There was a lot hesitation (Mavs management) around re-upping Steve to that BIG contract... health & longevity issues such around his back/core being front and center to the discussion. The Mavs were able to pivot VERY successfully once Nash went to PHX. Their play style (even with Nash at the time) was a little slower, more traditional, and featured solid defense, deep bench, around a Nash/Dirk/Finley trio. The Mavs would go onto win it all with a Jason Terry/Jason Kidd/Peja Stojakovic trio of primary ball handlers and lean into the model they built on. Ultimately, having won the ring, Mark Cuban could rightly say he made the right choice in not keeping Nash.

@parsifalK Жыл бұрын

@@dacrewordsmith nah that ring was an entire roster rebuild later only Dirk and Terry were still around. The REAL vindication would have been winning in 06 after beating the MVP Nash in the WCF just two years after letting him walk. That series was a huge forgotten Mavs W and it's a shame that the finals were stolen that year.

@dacrewordsmith Жыл бұрын

@@parsifalK, THANKS FOR ADDING SOME FURTHER DETAILS THERE, JD! In re-reading my comment, I think I mashed together two elements, not making myself clear for other readers that are also familiar with Mavs lore ~ the Mavs pivoted from the trio of Fin/Nash/Dirk INTO their later iteration (after exploring the Devin Harris period...). There is a timeline involved with all this, of course. I'd like to think the point I was trying to share with @HLDN1989 still stands - Mavs let Nash walk, won a ring, and ultimately didn't regret it. I still dream of the glory days: The pairing of Steve Nash & Nick Van Exel was my EVERYTHING.

@nocturne311 Жыл бұрын

@@dacrewordsmithYou forgot to mention that Cuban gave Erick Dampier the money that he was going to give Nash.

@dickduquesne 11 ай бұрын

I expected the words "Coach Dan Peterson", and "Banda Bassotti" to come out at some point

@t-bonemendez9938 Жыл бұрын

Whatever it is, you need a big to win.

@AJ-iu6nw Жыл бұрын

0:51

@acupuncturekid Жыл бұрын

No one ever asks this question about his system. If this system was so good why in the world did he only play seven players? If it was so good he should have had six to seven units developing all over the place running and gunning the entire game where there was no need for foul trouble or fatigue that is what really plug them in all those playoff runs where they would have an empty bench

@BadBart2217 Жыл бұрын

Can you imagine Baron Davis on those Suns teams? Damn

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

No since they already had Nash b0nehead

@jamalwalker 10 ай бұрын

@@nonamewillbegiven6847 Davis as 6th man would be great though they honestly needed a guy like that someone who could score off the bench consistently

@nonamewillbegiven6847 10 ай бұрын

@@jamalwalker Davis was a starter, not a bench player

@tallkc2072 9 ай бұрын

@@nonamewillbegiven6847 don't mean he can't come off the bench, plenty of guys transition from starter to 6th man roles

@nonamewillbegiven6847 9 ай бұрын

@@tallkc2072 no they don't you I/diot

@studio-ld8ix Жыл бұрын

Hornets should have drafted scoot and hired mike.

@gedog77 Жыл бұрын

You what I hear loudest here; “Dallas didn’t offer him a contract”, in the context of the Luka conversation this is just further cause for concern.

@sidelineball1988 5 ай бұрын

MOMBASA WILDCATS

@PMcGJellyP Жыл бұрын

Did you ask him to apologize for putting PJ Tucker at the 5? That let a genie out of a bottle that is still causing chaos.

@Thanosdidtherighthing Жыл бұрын

To be fair, Rockets had some major injuries that year

@makedredd299 Жыл бұрын

Top 5 small ball teams lost in 2023 Championship. - Nick Yoke 🐴

@cbrown940 Жыл бұрын

😳

@williepep-fy7qm Жыл бұрын

60s Celtics originated “small ball”

@darrengordon-hill Жыл бұрын

"We're not gonna out-Shaq Shaq" I'M SO INSPIRED BY HIS COACHING... no wonderr he didn't win more!!!

@DrJohnnyJ Жыл бұрын

"Small ball" goes way back. UCLA won back to back national championships with no player over 6'5". The Knicks won two championships with no player over 6'8". Height is overrated, especially with the three point line and the no-offensive foul line.

@jmgonzales7701 Жыл бұрын

height is not overrated, most teams won with a big center.

@jmgonzales7701 Жыл бұрын

what year is that when ucla won with no player over 6'5

@t-bonemendez9938 Жыл бұрын

I completely disagree.

@rilokiley3731 Жыл бұрын

height is not overrated when you see the average size of a basketball player in comparison to any other sport. lol

@MrDiMES123 Жыл бұрын

Yeah same thing GS won with small ball so did Miami’s heat

@indyfan1831 Жыл бұрын

One hamstring away from being a champ

@nanox4 Жыл бұрын

Injuries happened and the rest is history. They would've destroyed any East teams in the finals.

@jamalwalker Жыл бұрын

I don't see them beating the 05 Pistons, 06 Miami, or the 08 Celtics their best chance was 07 since the east was so bad that year

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

Nope

@_Gon_Gon_ Жыл бұрын

First

@luisfuentefdz 7 ай бұрын

Suns vs Lakers playoff series were cleary rigged

@darrengordon-hill Жыл бұрын

DEFENCE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!! Dellavdova harassing Curry LeBron block on Iggy MJ stealing the ball from MJ OF COURSE loser offensive guy blames "calls going your way"... WEAKNESS!!! Play some defence!! ALL shots are "big". Or none are. PERFORMING IN PUBLIC IS HARD

@karllorenzobabiano6328 Жыл бұрын

does this really matter? they can't beat the spurs playing their own game

@KingOfMonsters2K Жыл бұрын

I've been saying Dantoni is an overrated coach.His offense is revolutionary,don't get me wrong, but have you ever noticed every team he coaches they lose to the same team? His teams either lose to a defensive minded team (Spurs when he was in Phoenix/Houston, Pacers/Celtics when he was in NY) that can shut their offense right down or lose to a team that's doing the same offense, but just a lot better.(Mavs/Lakers when he was in Phoenix,Miami in NY, and of course Golden State when he was in Houston)

@penemuelwatcher2378 Жыл бұрын

Nobody was beating the Spurs then

@nocturne311 Жыл бұрын

Ironically Duncan started at center a lot in '07 so San Antonio was technically running a small ball system of sorts at times as well.

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

@@KingOfMonsters2Khe wasn't with the Knicks in 2013

@nonamewillbegiven6847 11 ай бұрын

@@penemuelwatcher2378Dallas did and the Lakers

@koolkai4299 Жыл бұрын

Ask him why he could never defeat the Spurs and his lack of belief in defense.

@AlanMane Жыл бұрын

This aint a live chat lil bro

@willhooke Жыл бұрын

Spurs had a better roster for sure 💯 Not sure why D has consistently been a problem Maybe because of prioritising O Even in the NBA, you still seem to need an all time great and a loaded team to win rings generally speaking

@hulksmash54 Жыл бұрын

2-2 series in 07 and the suspensions changed everything.

@ry_an. Жыл бұрын

But will it result in a championship? Unless your name is Curry, small ball doesn’t win.

@marcochen9117 Жыл бұрын

the heatles played lebron at 4 and bosh at 5 for a lot of their playoff runs

@BlueGrovyle Жыл бұрын

@@marcochen9117the funny thing is, imagine that prime version of LeBron as a small ball 5 in today's NBA. He'd break defensive schemes like Jokic does.

@kingjaydex7464 Жыл бұрын

The Heat played small ball fam

@justinholland6132 Жыл бұрын

They weren’t exactly small ball but some of the bulls team were small.

@DmoneyTwenty Жыл бұрын

@@marcochen9117 Battier at the 4 in some lineups too!

@firejaygaming8947 3 ай бұрын

I think a lot of ppl misjudge Mike he’s a great coach just always had unfortunate luck always did more with last wasn’t afraid to expriement

@MC-kj7dy Жыл бұрын

Don Nelson played small ball first

@lunacy5510 4 ай бұрын

Bro, it's a progress. Doesn't matter who did it first. First it was done in Europe where Done Nelson observed it, then from him D'Antoni took some ideas and pushed it to the extreme levels, then Steve Gundy took certain parts of it innovated it around Howard, then Heat, then Spurs (especially due to Messina sharing his views with Pop), then Warriors and so on. The game and ideas constantly evolve.

@MC-kj7dy 4 ай бұрын

@@lunacy5510 lol so you’re saying it started in Europe, the hypocrisy is unreal. Btw way you know nothing. It started with bill russell Celtics, Don Nelson saw small ball there first. Foh with your lies