And at that moment he knew, he f*ked up

This was a legit scary moment. If they just don't like you or don't agree with you, you can talk it out. When they are afraid of you, there's no convincing.

People in the comments really don't seem to get it, the point of this scene was never that the San Ti don't understand the concept of lying or that they never lie themselves. It's that they normally don't have to fear lies since they can all read each others mind. A San Ti can never directly lie to another San Ti. What scared them isn't that Mike lied, it's that they couldn't tell that Mike was lying to them until he told them.

That‘s when he should have introduced them to the concept of fiction in literature and recommended they open a Kindle account. Missed business opportunity.

During that little pause, the san ti changed their entire plan, scrapping the coexisting one for the conquering one. That pause is the time it took for them to iterate through all scenarios possible and make a decision that will dictate the next 400 years

"See that's why you need us." Smooth move. First thing the dude does when it learns about lies is to demonstrate manipulation instead of the beauty of fiction and imagination. 🤦‍♂️

how I fumble when rizzing a baddie

Little red riding hood is the sole reason why these aliens will wipe us out instead of co-exist! LOL

My favourite scene in the entire season, and the only one that truly evoked the sense of dread in the books. I hope we get more of that in season 2.

The symbolism in this scene is pretty brilliant to me. The story they chose isn’t just a throwaway. Little Red Riding Hood had no anxiety about the world she inhabited, and it became her downfall. She was safe in her domain, and never feared the predators that might lurk in the forest. Imagine a species that only has existential anxiety and dread over their planet’s capacity to kill them. We cannot even hope to understand what being “afraid” means for a species like that.

This one conversation doomed humanity.

I think he would’ve been alright if he explained that lies are meant to deceive whereas stories are meant to educate or entertain.

Man, while watching this I did not see it coming how important this scene was gonna be. The slow realisation, the brief pauses, the uncertainty... it was like a silent but horrifying crescendo reaching a peak.

High Sparrow getting caught in a snare.

The moment everything went wrong 😂

He had anthropomorphized them too much, he had started to talk to them like they were a human, they didn't understand context of what he was talking about "It's a lie about a liar?" He should have strongly denied there, they clearly lacked context and he didn't catch on it. 😑

My lord?? *Message delivered and seen*

Reading a fairy-tale?? Should have read Machiavelli instead! That would have made them crap their pants and do a 180!

"I knew I should've read them The Hobbit"

Hang on. I never understood how the Santi didn't know about human literature. The Sophons probably had access to the entirety of human knowledge but they don't know about the concept of telling a story and lying. Surely they knew that humans didn't share thoughts like the Santi do. Most life depends on some form of deception for survival.

You had one job mike!

This explains how their million-man calculator works. All it took was one jerk to mess up the entire thing.

San Ti can't lie because of the way they communicate. don't want to spoil anything but when you realize how they communicate the concept of lying is impossible. only thing that never made sense in the book is that the San Ti can travel through space so they could have easily just left their own chaotic solar system and searched for another stable one.

The thing that San Ti can't lie really makes no sense. If they know how to create illusion and withhold information, they already know how to lie.

"My Lord, Are You There? It's Me, Margaret."

My girl was PLOTTING for decades! only for this old man to ruin everything! I'd be sick to my stomach!

my question is how the original pacifist San Ti alien concealed his communication with Ye Wenjie if the aliens are incapable of hiding their thoughts from eachother 🤔

Imagine being the one San-Ti who can lie

Favorite scene in the entire series

Not only did he make them afraid of us but he also showed them that they can lie to us.

The Great PJ Never Disappoints ✌️🌟🤞🤞

“We are afraid of you” was ironically the scariest shit it could’ve said.

I have not read the books, so maybe there is a better explanation, but at least in the show presently, this scene doesn't sit right with me. 1. The San-Ti have been spying on humans using Sophons and can see, and hear EVERYTHING that's going on. Clearly, they should've been able to observe that humans do lie, cheat, steal etc etc. It's incomprehensible that it's suddenly a revelation to them based on just one reading of Red Riding Hood?!!!!!!! 2. They themselves have been manipulating the physical events that people on Earth can see to cause panic and mass hysteria - phantom readings in the particle accelerators, countdowns on retinas, stars blinking etc etc. San-Ti cutely term it as "showing miracles", whereas it's just presenting a fake reality. Why then become so touchy-feely about the ability of humans to "lie"?! They aren't so pure either. 3. As they are sort of omnipresent, even if Mike Evans is caught lying later on, they could've easily eliminated him? Are they so short-sighted so as to completely abandon him, overlooking all he has done for them till now???? 4. And despite seemingly getting paranoid about the ability of humans to lie, they anyways end up contacting Tatiana to do their bidding!!! So why abandon Evans??

That's what happens when you abandon the Faith of the Seven and start embracing some alien overlord shit.

The essence of the story Little Red Riding Hood is a lie about a liar.

Miss Thing gagged him fierce with that read!! Santee Alleys are so scary to me because they arent not only technically fiercer but they are also shady boots

San-Ti: *Builds an entire virtual reality game where the player has an alias* Also San-Ti: "A liar cannot be trusted"

This changed whole game Woah

without much context, it's not that scary. it's like a child. but after you've seen what that scared and confused child can do, maybe it's best not to upset it

Nice job, bucko!

FYI, It’s implied in the books that Trisolarans communicate instantaneously through thought, so they can’t lie to each other.

This moment kinda reminded me of the quote. "Do you think God stays in heaven because he too lives in fear of what he's created?" The only difference in this case is that instead of staying in the heavens, the San-ti is coming to destroy all of humanity.

everyone gets to see the people they lost again

Who knew reading Grimms fairy tales to a bunch of aliens would result in an invasion?🤷‍♂️

As you can they are quite technical with all their questions, as this type of questioning leaves room for no loopholes. But evans couldn't catch on to this and wasnt specific enough. No specifications = too many loopholes = fear of humanity and unpredictable ways Which is why they sent those things to watch them. Just because they watch doesn't mean they necessarily understand.

如果三体人能🤥说谎，他们就无法在混乱的三体世界中发展到如此高度

He’s been talking to Santi for 40 years and now he f***s up? How on earth has this not happened until now?😅😅😅

I get that they're aliens. I can acknowledge that communication could be slow at first. But based on the progression and timeline, Mike has had this means of communication for at least 10 years. Are the writers saying it took 10 years of talking before Mike had ever described even a fictional story that depicted a liar?

The San-Ti obviously can deal with probability ranges if they can handle interstellar travel and quantum computing. There does not need to be a pure deterministic mathematical answer of absolute truth for a range of probabilities to properly inform policy. Similarly, when dealing with others who may not be truthful, there is a range of possibilities based on what is in their own self interest to have to account for. If they can use quantum computing, then they should have worked out those possibilities and developed appropriate mitigations instead of just declaring humanity evil. Give the author credit for coming up with a reason that aliens would want to conquer or wipe out humanity even with a society that is as advanced as their technology instead of just using the old trope of a society with incredibly advanced technology to still have a medieval feudal imperial society, but this is where the story fails to sell that as a key underlying premise.

I was wondering what their technology they couldn’t just simply look at our history and tell her we were a shady species

This remind anyone else of Hal malfunctioning in 2001 A Space Oddysey a bit

How do they know to use the concept of trust as reasoning if they don't know how to lie? They have no use for the word trust as it implies that lies are an established concept in their society.

They don’t understand the concept of entertainment 😢

Its rather interesting to me that instead of being able to describe and being able to understand the concept of lying, metaphors, fiction etcetera. the San ti Just decided that humans are bad because they lie. It's pretty interesting because lying is actually a very important survival technique. If the san ti can't do it then that's an incredible weakness that they have in the universe.

People are saying this convo doomed humanity but i believe we were doomed before that when they decided to invade us. This was just a way out to break up with their followers after their usefulness was over.

“so the story is a lie about a liar?” “no, because everyone on earth understands the information it is meant to convey, so there is no deception involved.” “oh ok, cool”

Not that it would have helped, but he could have just explained the concept of fiction. Entertainment. Goldilocks would probably have been more appropriate.

He probably could have salvaged it by explaining that the stories are meant to teach us lessons, in this case, to be wary of liars. Maaaaaybe.

It's like having the wrong conversation with your girlfriend and she gosting you lol

If they can't lie, how did they say "you are bugs" to everyone, when its not a literal truth.

Why not just upload the whole scene?

They dont lie so when they call you bugs, you probably are.

This is a great analogy of the fist interactions of Africans and Europeans (liars). Art imitating life. A liar can never be trusted.

But the San Ti lie as well. Their very first communication was made by a 'liar'.

The fact that humanity is doomed by two idiots who think only about themselfes is super realistic and scary

They would have found out about our lying habit eventually ANYWAY, so... 😇🤥

He should've read them Vogon Poetry, dammit!

High sparrow has fked up once again

This would also explain the head set , the world is not a story , the loop hole is that in the "game" they can hear , feel, touch , smell, etc. They can "be" in the game as they can also in reality. So technically the game is not a lie. To us stories are lies as our assumptions and context will tell fiction from truth automatically For them, a story is exactly what it it - a story, doesnt matter how its told or when,where,how, why, just know the game is not a "lie." To us it is, to them its not. Thats the loop hole and i feel they know what loops holes are which is why they also created the game. But all in all, they never lied in the beginning, they did say they will conquer you. Although they never said how, coexistence could be a way of conquering, they never explained how they would coexist 😂😂😂these santi playing heavy mind games while also following the rule of the universe. - specifications are A MUST

Great scene and epdiose....interestingly in the 1st epdiose the transmission from the Santi stated...danger danger I'm pacifist the others are not...do not respond. In this scene the Santi claim to never lie..a lie...they also claim to be a hive mind...another lie.

Sophons were already sent to Earth in episode 1 fucking with the particle accelerator research to halt Earth science. That was much before this conversation. Intent was always conquer and slow science.

This scene is very dystopian, but also pretty humorous. “A story is a lie about a liar” wtf💀

I find it difficult to believe they had no conception of deception.

....couldn't you have just read them like sleeping beauty, man?

I don't understand one thing: aren't aliens, at least one of them, liars in the first place? "I'm a pacifist in this world, if you reply we will come"....was he willing to lie about being contacted by humans? That would make the alien a liar as well. I don't understand.

How come the San- ti doesn't know Human could lie if they can see and hear everything human do? My answer is that San- ti truly sees human like bugs, like is it concern us humans if some bugs can lie? In the end they are just bugs

He should have introduced the concept of Morality before explaining the concept of lying. Humans lie, but their lies do not cross them. The bottom line is that morality is shackled by the human capacity to lie. This will make humans far less threatening to San Ti and might still leave space for reconciliation.

Can anyone explain why this scene is meant to be so scary when the Trisolarans would’ve found out about lying later on through their sophons anyway?

I wonder what the Trisolorans would have thought about music, since it stands to reason that if they did not have evolutionary time or inclination for silly things like children's stories then they probably never got around to music. Like Mozart's ABC, or the Soviet national anthem, or the Nokia ringtune

they lie as well .. rewatch and find a few times

Aliens discovering lie is a thing😂

The only parts of the Netflix show were “it is a lie about a liar?”, when the chick says we wouldn’t like how they look, and having ye wenjies complete backstory I guess. Otherwise, the Chinese version is incomparably better.

So what does it mean when the San Ti deliberately designed the game with human N.P.C.’s to make themselves more familiar and relatable to the players? The definition of “lying” according to the aliens seems fairly nebulous and it’s not really clear to me whether hiding their true form to appear human is clear of that murky boundary between lying and truth.

First time a show has made me get up off my chair and walk around with my hands on my head like the world is actually about to end

I was going to say that some stores rely on people saying stupid wrong things. But then I realized, nearly everyone in 2024 says stupid wrong things, so... I guess all I can say about this is that it's accurate.

Ooh ooh...what about the boy who cried wolf My Lord😂😭

The Trisolarans were always gonna bone us.

This happened in the story too. Right before the nano plan. And the SanTi stopped communicating with Mike Evans. That led to his death. Anyway, the SanTi will learn to love fictions. That's some little cute things in this horrifying story. And I think the author could make a happy ending with that. Fiction things can connect people (or SanTi). When we are connected by common immaginations, there's no point in annihilating each other.

He dun goofed.

Which actor is the voice of the Lord?

Then how did the scientist die before this? The san ti are themselves lying and knew they will compete eith thr humans

This guy manages to explain the concept of a fariy tail in the worst way possible.

Like I screwed up, right?

I just dont understand why Evans should read book to San-Ti. The sophon can read books so much faster.

As intelligent as they are (the creation of the Sophons, for example), that they didn't consider the concept of fantasy or analogy.

He tried to be a pick me but he got fckd up 😂😂😂

this is called gaslighting

..we don't understand..'

part of me feels the San Ti's sudden change in plans is disingenuous. The implication seems to be they planned to co-exist? And because of this new element they completely changed the way they intend to interact with humans? I don't believe, over several decades of interactions, the concept of lies/metaphors/hypotheticals have never been brought up in a conversation. Tangentially, Mike keeps calling them "my Lord" which seems to have a religious connotation to it. The first time the San Ti heard this terminology and learned its etymology I would wager they asked a few questions and drilled down to the idea of religion and god. Wouldn't they have understood the concept of religion is (to some) symbolic/ fictional and perhaps has grains of lies embedded.

If the San Ti is so advanced why not just eliminate two of their suns and solve the problem or find an uninhabited world since we now know there are hundreds if not thousands available to them, the whole movie is full of plot holes as large as the Grand Canyon.