The Portal Paradox

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minutephysics

minutephysics

4 жыл бұрын

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This video is about the Portal Paradox - a paradox in the video game Portal (and Portal 2) regarding whether or not a companion cube passing through a moving portal plops out of the other end with no speed (velocity, momentum), or shoots out at high speed. It’s a question of conservation of momentum, relativity of velocities, wormholes, 3D printers and quantum teleportation, glitches, and more.
REFERENCES
Conservation of momentum
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentu...
Principle of Locality
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princip...
KZfaq video of testing the Portal 2 game engine on the portal Paradox • Portal 2 - Moving Port...
Tutorial for how to program the Portal portals on your own: www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...
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Minute Physics provides an energetic and entertaining view of old and new problems in physics -- all in a minute!
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@milandavid7223
@milandavid7223 4 жыл бұрын
1: Put two portals on ceiling 2: Put a cube half way through 3: Gravity pulls on both sides equally therefore the cube doesn't fall 4: Profit
@colingreen1006
@colingreen1006 4 жыл бұрын
You would need to *perfectly* line it up though.
@BentoEmanuel
@BentoEmanuel 4 жыл бұрын
At this point it depends if the cup is half full or half empty
@alarkabhopale8930
@alarkabhopale8930 4 жыл бұрын
@@colingreen1006 that too it should have uniform distribution of mass
@user-um7fw6bl2e
@user-um7fw6bl2e 4 жыл бұрын
Umm you tried to out think the channel that is about physics so for that a sitting cat cannot sit
@MrKassNova
@MrKassNova 4 жыл бұрын
That is actually a very good thought experiment. Kudos.
@LieutenantSilver
@LieutenantSilver 4 жыл бұрын
There's only one way to address this issue: _Portal 3._ _Which in itself will cause a paradox because Valve don't count to three._
@ajpearl2075
@ajpearl2075 4 жыл бұрын
But half life three is coming out
@darkfurno8990
@darkfurno8990 4 жыл бұрын
What is they prank us and cancel it on the day that it’s supposed to be released on
@supernova5434
@supernova5434 4 жыл бұрын
STOP! you almost triggered the energy black hole that operates at the higgs field
@WilderPoo
@WilderPoo 4 жыл бұрын
They count to Alyx instead
@camelCased
@camelCased 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe it will not be half life 3 but half of 3 life, so that is half life 1.5.
@NekoHibaCosplay
@NekoHibaCosplay 11 ай бұрын
my physics teacher (slightly suggested by me since we were both gamers and I was the one who provided him a copy of the game to play) used Portals related lessons several times to explain concept like inertia or the meaning of accumulated and static momentum He used this problem in one of his lessons, and was the funniest one imho, since the class was very interested in this problem and came up with a lot of solutions for both option A and B
@Fr33mx
@Fr33mx 7 ай бұрын
how can it be anything but A if no forces are applied to the cube other than the gravitational force of the planet that changes when cube comes out of the other end resulting in it just ploping out?
@zRuSh_XraY
@zRuSh_XraY 7 ай бұрын
@@Fr33mxyess!! Im thinking the same thing. If nothing but gravity is moving the box why would it fling up like that
@bigshot103
@bigshot103 6 ай бұрын
@@zRuSh_XraYbecause as layer of the cube come out of the blue portal they will push the layer before them out as fast as new layers are forming which is the same as the orange portal’s speed. The orange portal makes the most scenes as the reference frame (thing the speed is measured based on) because the environment does not even need to be there for the experiment.
@zRuSh_XraY
@zRuSh_XraY 6 ай бұрын
@@bigshot103 with that logic… if a door flies past me standing still… i get launched at supersonic speeds fo no reason…? Cus thats the pov of the box. Nothing makes the box move since nothing is aplying any force to it. (Exept gravity ofc, hence the flop)
@ThisIsntAYoutuber
@ThisIsntAYoutuber 4 ай бұрын
@@zRuSh_XraY You’re missing the part where the rest of the world behind the door is also moving towards you in the case of portals. Your analogy doesn’t work because you’re only accounting for the door. If a portal is approaching you, the REST OF THE UNIVERSE behind the portal is also “approaching you.” A normal door does not “take” everything else with it, portals do.
@andywatt9458
@andywatt9458 Жыл бұрын
Years ago, I was trying to program a small 2-D platformer game that had a mechanic where a user exiting one side of the screen would reappear on the opposite side (same with top to bottom). I tried adding an extra mechanic where the user could resize the game frame to solve puzzles and I ran into this same question. I realized that I had accidentally backed into creating a Portal style game in 2D with moving portals. In terms of physics, the proper answer is that the object leavers the exit portal with the speed and acceleration it had RELATIVE to the entrance portal. And that speed and acceleration is relative to the exit portal (not the environment). While it makes for an interesting thought experiment, it creates a lot of problems for a programmer. For example, if the user is shrinking the game frame, the portals are moving toward each other. An object entering a portal gets a speed boost from both the entrance AND the exit portals (because they are moving toward each other). If a user allows the player to go through the portal several times while shrinking the screen, the user will accelerate each time, until the player is going so fast that the frame rate of the program can't keep up. This creates weird problems with the collision engine (player is moving so fast they pass straight through solid objects) and the rendering engine (player is moving so fast that it creates an optical illusion where it looks like they are moving backward). After breaking my brain on this for a while, I realized why portals really aren't allowed to move - it creates physical possibilities that are impossible to replicate with a computer. I ended up abandoning the project because the physics was not something that could be simulated with a computer. I'm guessing that the developers of Portal had these same issues, which is why the portals can't be placed on moving surfaces.
@ka-boom2083
@ka-boom2083 9 ай бұрын
Do you have any published games that I can play? I want to see what kind of games you’ve made 😊
@bradleywalker8642
@bradleywalker8642 8 ай бұрын
There's already a game similar to what you're describing, about wrapping around the screen edges. Look up "Four Sided Famtasy". I got 100% completion on it. Enjoy ...
@Lttlemoi
@Lttlemoi 5 ай бұрын
You could always try to dampen any speed above the maximum natural speed that your character can attain by themselves without portals and call it simulated wind resistance.
@Maukustus
@Maukustus 4 жыл бұрын
"The portals never move" *Cough cough* neurotoxin generator *cough cough*
@valkwetenschap2656
@valkwetenschap2656 4 жыл бұрын
Very true
@Titanic-wo6bq
@Titanic-wo6bq 4 жыл бұрын
Exactly.
@Jasmine-pc4qp
@Jasmine-pc4qp 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah but that's kinda the game's fault at this point
@TheSpyroplayer
@TheSpyroplayer 4 жыл бұрын
True, but the entry point is stationary, and only the exit point moves. It doesn't create the same paradox, since entry and exit are different when thjnking about the paradox
@Titanic-wo6bq
@Titanic-wo6bq 4 жыл бұрын
@@TheSpyroplayer Now that I think about it, you are right. The entry portal is still, and the exit portal is moving, but the thing moving through the portals is light; a laser. Light always travels at C.
@jadedatheist1828
@jadedatheist1828 3 жыл бұрын
"Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out."
@federicostrippoli7706
@federicostrippoli7706 3 жыл бұрын
Unrated comment
@warpedmine9682
@warpedmine9682 3 жыл бұрын
Speedy portal sucks something in shoots like cannon
@crazynachos4230
@crazynachos4230 3 жыл бұрын
But the cube isn't moving relative to the exit so it shouldn't be moving relatively when it comes out
@warpedmine9682
@warpedmine9682 3 жыл бұрын
@@crazynachos4230 but thats the thing the portal gives the energy to the cube shooting it out of the outside like a cannon
@giordihero
@giordihero 3 жыл бұрын
@@warpedmine9682 that's not how physics works tho, there is no force being applied to the cube, which means it cannot acquire velocity by Newton's first law. The Portal doesn't apply force, it's just a hole in space. The result would be the same as if the portal was just a wall with a hole in it.
@pelajojo
@pelajojo Жыл бұрын
if a portal in this game's rules, as I have understood, is in a surface and it starts moving, the portal disappear instantly
@clover266
@clover266 Жыл бұрын
except in one level of portal 2. where you can place in a moving surface when ||you and wheatley are cutting the neurotoxin supply|| although there is no way for the player to enter the portal
@marengo6990
@marengo6990 Жыл бұрын
you can enable movable portals in console
@ajgumpper
@ajgumpper Жыл бұрын
@@marengo6990 how?
@localschizo
@localschizo Жыл бұрын
@@marengo6990 necc
@localschizo
@localschizo Жыл бұрын
@@ajgumpper necc
@ahrengroesch8774
@ahrengroesch8774 11 ай бұрын
Consider what you would see looking into the exit portal. You would essentially see the ground pushing the cube out of it. When you think about it like that, it seems like it would have to be relative to the object and the entry portal.
@SkyeBerryJam
@SkyeBerryJam 9 ай бұрын
I'd think of it like slamming down a ring around a wooden cube. Except the ring is now in two seperate places. Box go plop
@ahrengroesch8774
@ahrengroesch8774 9 ай бұрын
@@SkyeBerryJam in the ring plopping down scenario The exit portal is moving opposite of the object exiting it canceling out the momentum. Imagine you have your exit portal on a wall and you're standing right next to it. Looking into it. The entrance portal is coming down at the box very fast so what you see is the box coming at you very fast. The box goes through the portal slams into you and sends you flying. Speedy thing go in. Speedy thing come out. It doesn't matter that everything else on the other side of the portal was stationary in reference to the box or the none of it went through the portal. The box was speedy going in so it must be speedy coming out. When a portal is moving literally everything is speedy relative to the portal.
@SkyeBerryJam
@SkyeBerryJam 9 ай бұрын
@@ahrengroesch8774 I mean if we want to get really technical I think none of these things happen and we need to know how objects interact with the edge of portals/how gravity works for something with its two halves on opposite ends of a portal
@ahrengroesch8774
@ahrengroesch8774 9 ай бұрын
@@SkyeBerryJam I am dying for someone to get technical with me on the topic of portal thought experiments. On interactions with the edges of portals, I lean towards it working effectively like it's just a plain hole in a flat surface. I see a portal less as teleporting something that goes through it, and more like creating a normal man sized hole in a wall/ceiling/floor that has another universe on the other side of it that is also the same universe from a different direction. I think you could grab the inside edge of a portal just like you could stick your hand through and hold onto a hole in anything. On gravity, it being described as the bending of space time, and a portal seeming to be connected tears in space time, I lean towards gravity from either side stopping at the portal. Thus if you were half way through it you would be pulled or pushed in both directions. So if both portals were on the floor you could float there feeling pressure in the middle of yourself. Or if both were on a ceiling it would feel like you were being pulled in two. I believe this is a plausible explanation explain of the behavior observed in the game. If you think none of the video's or my explanations thus far is how it would work I'm dying to know your ideas.
@Lorentz_Driver
@Lorentz_Driver 8 ай бұрын
Okay but what you see and what is happening are not the same thing.
@daniel_ghax
@daniel_ghax 4 жыл бұрын
Aperture Science wants to remind you, that you can't put Portals on moving walls. Thanks. Edit: "Could you guys stop commenting the same stuff on my two year old comment."
@JakeNOTHING
@JakeNOTHING 4 жыл бұрын
Daniel Kröber I was looking for this comment xD it's been a very long while since I played the game, but I remember you are told it's not possible to place portals on moving surfaces, and if the surface with a portal starts moving the portal just fades
@rjrafol275
@rjrafol275 4 жыл бұрын
He referenced this in 0:55 . He is under the assumption "what if we can put it on a moving platform"
@GoudaBug
@GoudaBug 4 жыл бұрын
Except for that part near the end of Portal 2 where you put a portal in a moving surface?
@BlockSaver
@BlockSaver 4 жыл бұрын
@@GoudaBug right, the section where you had to cut the neurotoxin tubes with the lasers. Sadly, there's no way to actually go through the portals without console commands, but I'd assume it would be the same result as the portal moving down: no physical objects allowed.
@dpdug6961
@dpdug6961 4 жыл бұрын
What if the portal was a machine and was just pushed?
@noelshrum4400
@noelshrum4400 4 жыл бұрын
To quote GLaDOS from Test chamber 10, "Momentum, a function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In layman's terms: speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out."
@trash9378
@trash9378 4 жыл бұрын
So what happens when a stationary thing goes in? A stationary thing can't come out
@haroldsaxon1075
@haroldsaxon1075 4 жыл бұрын
@@trash9378 yes it can. Replace the term portal with hole. The hole is in motion, not the box. the hole is being pushed down around the box. Only external forces on the other side cause it to fall over.
@cupofmeep6366
@cupofmeep6366 4 жыл бұрын
Option A is the correct one by any means, I don't know why would anyone even question that, portals are just a continuation of certain space in one place on another place, they only transfer the existing mass and energy as a continuation of space, they are not some energy generating force.
@cyraknoss
@cyraknoss 4 жыл бұрын
@@trash9378 The answer is "Momentum, a function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In layman's terms:stationary thing doesn't go in because it's stationary! Stationary things can't go."
@cody4211
@cody4211 4 жыл бұрын
@@cyraknoss Technically the velocity being measured is the velocity at which the object enters the portal. Although the object may seem stationary to you, to the portal it is moving toward it at a rate of distance over time. Think of it as you riding a train. You are stationary, however, you also maintain the velocity of that train.
@SleepyFunkin
@SleepyFunkin 5 ай бұрын
The portal, in my opinion, would behave as if the bottom platform was pushing it into the portal, since the platform moving towards the portal, and the portal moving towards the platform are essentially the same thing in this context.
@erikcarl2384
@erikcarl2384 3 ай бұрын
no they are not. if drop a tube on the ball it would not be launce up into the tube. if you however slam the ball into the tube it would. its not essentailly the same at all.
@SleepyFunkin
@SleepyFunkin 3 ай бұрын
@@erikcarl2384 what I need context here, what tube, and what ball?
@erikcarl2384
@erikcarl2384 3 ай бұрын
@@SleepyFunkin any tube and any ball that fits into a tube. you dont need any context.
@PedroGonzalez-pd6vw
@PedroGonzalez-pd6vw 3 ай бұрын
@@erikcarl2384 No, it is. You're assuming there's a surface the ball is sitting on. Physically speaking, if you move a tube over a ball floating in space, such that the ball goes through the tube, it's the same thing as moving the ball through a stationary floating tube. This is the main principle behind the theory of special relativity. The common example provided for this, is an elevator floating in space with you inside of it. You feel yourself being pulled to the bottom of the elevator at an acceleration of 10m/s^2. You cannot see outside the elevator. You are tasked with discerning which of the following is true: a) You are inside an elevator that is accelerating upwards; or b) You are inside a stationary elevator that is near a massive body, and are thus experiencing a gravitational pull Which is it? You actually can't tell. If the elevator were to accelerate upwards at a constant rate-let's say 10m/s^2-you would feel the elevator pushing up against you with a force proportional to that acceleration (due to F=ma). If there were a gravitational field, perhaps that of a planet nearby (but invisible to you since you are inside the elevator), pulling you down at a rate of 10m/s^2, and if the elevator were stationary in this case, you'd likewise feel the elevator pushing up on you with the same force. Einstein's theory basically says that, no, there is no way of differentiating these two scenarios: "The laws of physics are invariant (identical) in all inertial frames of reference."
@Dustyoo10
@Dustyoo10 3 ай бұрын
The thing is that reactionary forces only applies to objects that COLLIDE with eachother. If there was no portal, then yes the cube getting hit by the wall and the wall getting hit by the cube would be the same, but since the cube doesn't collide with anything, it simply goes through the portal unaffected, and thus does not react to anything.
@ronaldosilva1120
@ronaldosilva1120 Жыл бұрын
Assuming that portals are only windows as seen in the games, the only force applied on the cube to move him is the gravity force at any speed of the orange portal
@KuroRiot
@KuroRiot 3 жыл бұрын
I think this paradox is the entire reason that Valve implemented a "no portal on moving platforms" policy except for one exception where it would be impossible to put an object through it
@lunkel8108
@lunkel8108 3 жыл бұрын
That just opens up another problem: What do they mean by "not moving"? How is a reference frame chosen and with what justification? Also, aren't there two exceptions? The one where you shoot it onto the moving platform and the one where you shoot it on the moon which I'm pretty sure is not stationary with respect to earth.
@pogwater5366
@pogwater5366 3 жыл бұрын
just go into the console and enable that
@Monody512
@Monody512 3 жыл бұрын
Well this and it also the programming headaches.
@SuperDeinVadda
@SuperDeinVadda 3 жыл бұрын
No that's not right. At the end you open a portal on the moon and it works. And the moon is moving damn fast.
@Monody512
@Monody512 3 жыл бұрын
@@SuperDeinVadda Don't forget the moving panels in the neurotoxin generator scene. The player was prohibited from ever placing moving portals in any situation where they could be interacted with directly. That doesn't mean they can't canonically be moving.
@DotboT3812
@DotboT3812 3 жыл бұрын
"speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out" but what if speedy thing was never speedy? [queue vsauce music] what if, instead, stationary thing goes in speedy hole: does it come out the other fast or slow?
@CmdrShepard1001
@CmdrShepard1001 3 жыл бұрын
Everything is speedy relative to something else. If the object exits at the same velocity relative to the ground, it would not exit at all. If the object exits slower than the velocity that the portal moves towards it, the object would compress. If the object passes through the speedy portal and its spacial dimensions do not change, than the object must be speedy.
@deffinatalee7699
@deffinatalee7699 3 жыл бұрын
@@CmdrShepard1001 i’m speedy relative to your mom
@liliththefirehawk796
@liliththefirehawk796 3 жыл бұрын
@@deffinatalee7699 lmao legend
@cantthinkofnameyeah7249
@cantthinkofnameyeah7249 3 жыл бұрын
Somewhere in the middle becuase the inertias would start to build on one side of the cube while the other is still moving relatively slow
@electricheisenberg5723
@electricheisenberg5723 3 жыл бұрын
slow. imagine istead of a portal it's just a hole. portals are like holes that defy euclidean space.
@Roger_808
@Roger_808 Жыл бұрын
i have watched this video a dozen times in the past 3 years and my answer changes every single time
@edbproductions
@edbproductions Жыл бұрын
I always thought of the portals as gates or doors. Normally stationary you walk through one side come out the other. If a door frame is throw thrown at you yourself won't gain any momentum from that. Also my problem with B is, you don't have any momentum to start with even if a portal is moving at you fast and slams down on top of you you should still be standing on the same ground so what force will pull you up.
@Athinira
@Athinira Жыл бұрын
Except in your analogy, both portals would essentially be moving, not just one of them. If you throw a door frame (entry and exit), you're throwing both portals (entry and exit). But in this conundrum, only one of the portals is moving. So how are you gonna throw only one side of a door frame? The correct answer is B.
@edbproductions
@edbproductions Жыл бұрын
@@Athinira I can see where you are coming from but that's not quite how I see it. I just have a hard time seeing how the portals are impeding a force on the object. I see a port as infinitely thin if some goes in one side it comes out the other maintaining its own momentum. So If you go through a portal that's coming at you rapidly it would act just as if you walked through the portal and came out the other side. I'd love to make a video on it to better explain my point of view.
@Athinira
@Athinira Жыл бұрын
​@@edbproductions Let me put up a scenario for you then. Imagine that you have the Orange portal on a moveable ceiling (that is, the portal is facing downwards). Imagine you have the blue portal on the floor (facing up). Now, imagine that you are halfway through the portal. Your lower body (waist down) is on the orange portal side, standing on the floor below the orange portal on that ceiling. Your upper body is sticking out of the blue portal on the floor. Suddenly the moveable ceiling with the orange portal slams down to the floor fast, bringing your whole body through the orange portal so you're now fully on the side of the blue portal. What is going to happen? Well, initially, your upper body has no momentum. It's just stationarily sticking out of the floor. But once the orange portal comes down, your upper body needs to move up to make room for your legs coming through the portal (assuming that the force the ceiling smahes with isn't enough to just crush your legs). However, moving requires momentum. To move anything, momentum has to be build. Therefore, once the orange portal touches your floor, this entire time, the lower part of your body on the orange portal side has been pushing the parts of your body that has already passed through the portal. Pushing builds momentum, just like if i pushed you in real life. So once the orange portal touches the floor and stops, your body will continue and do a small jump. The thing people get wrong here is the transfer of power. Usually people would assume that there is no transfer of power, therefore there can be no momentum. There is however a transfer of power. The power in this case just doesn't come from the floor you're standing on, but rather from the moveable ceiling with the portal. Since the ceiling is moving, it has momentum. And it's that momentum (rather than the momentum from a stationary floor or platform) that is transferred to your body.
@edbproductions
@edbproductions Жыл бұрын
@@Athinira ok I've been absolutely spiraling for like an hour thinking about different references planes, portal orientation, 1 portal moving 1 not, both portal moving, moving in the same direction moving in opposite directions..... Etc. Honestly at the end of it all I feel like both of our arguments have equal standings. Because here's one counter argument for gaining from a portal like in your example. If you are standing in front of a stationary portal and the portal is going 100+mph on the other side could you physically move through your stationary portal on your side without moving at least 100+mph. Because In my head you could poke your out and it would be moving 100+mph and your feet would still be stationary.
@Athinira
@Athinira Жыл бұрын
@@edbproductions Yes, that's exactly what would happen. Your two body parts would be moving at different speeds. Imagine this scenario: You're standing stationary in front of a statinary orange portal. You poke your hand through. The other side of the portal (blue) is moving sideways at 100 kph (sorry, I'm european - no mph 😉 ) in a completely wind-still environment. Would you feel the air brush against your hand even though there's no wind? Of course, because since the portal is moving 100 kmh, so is your hand. That makes it a 100 kmh difference between the wind speed and your hand, even if the rest of your body is standing still. For the air to brush against your hand, there HAS to be a difference of speed between air and hand - even if it _appears_ from the side you're standing at that it's the wind blowing. So imagine something else: You're standing in front of a stationary portal. On the other side is a portal moving at 100 kph towards a floor. You poke just the front of your head through the portal and see the floor zooming towards your head. Would the floor smash your head once the portal reaches it, even though the floor is technically stationary? What if you didn't put your head through the portal, but the floor had a spear sticking out that would eventually enter the portal and hit you on the other side. Would it impale you through the portal, even though it's stationary? The answer is obviously: Yes.
@alshuki3478
@alshuki3478 3 жыл бұрын
My science teacher used portal as an example to explain this and he played it for us as well which is super surprising
@mkatrfamily4404
@mkatrfamily4404 3 жыл бұрын
I want that person as my teacher
@yajvinsinghal6559
@yajvinsinghal6559 3 жыл бұрын
Fucking legend
@davidpowers746
@davidpowers746 3 жыл бұрын
Good teachers are the ones who've realized the indelible impact of well made KZfaq videos. Thankfully my teachers understood that back in my days and showed us episodes of Reading Rainbow and Bill Nye the Science Guy in class.
@DominikPac-Boy
@DominikPac-Boy 2 жыл бұрын
Great teacher.
@Mini-se6cx
@Mini-se6cx 2 жыл бұрын
Which part or game
@adamfra64
@adamfra64 4 жыл бұрын
I rule in favour of Option D. When the stationary object is consumed by the portal, the source engine crashes.
@HeckuleStudios
@HeckuleStudios 4 жыл бұрын
the entire universe is running on source engine.
@hiu2ying
@hiu2ying 4 жыл бұрын
No no, it’s option *3* .
@yukisetsuna1325
@yukisetsuna1325 4 жыл бұрын
@@hiu2ying *critical error*
@user-um7fw6bl2e
@user-um7fw6bl2e 4 жыл бұрын
You call d the teir zoo route or else
@Ommelanden
@Ommelanden 4 жыл бұрын
Option E: Portal crashes to desktop and a pop-up with the secret download link for portal 3 is shown
@KelvinShadewing
@KelvinShadewing Жыл бұрын
I think we could measure speed relative to the environment and still have B happen in a game if the teleportation takes both the object and portal's speed relative to each other into account. For instance, if cube and orange are both moving towards each other at a speed of 1, then cube exits blue at a speed of 2, but if both are moving in the same direction, then if orange is faster than cube, then cube would exit blue at the speed of orange - cube. The same thing would then apply to the speed of blue relative to cube. If blue is moving forward, then cube exits at its new velocity plus that of blue.
@philkill44
@philkill44 Жыл бұрын
You just described the option, where the speed is measured relative to the portal. You described what would happen if the speed is measured from the cube in relation to the portal, not in relation to the environment...
@venomo2868
@venomo2868 Жыл бұрын
If the cube is now has velo of 2 but blue portal still has velo of 1, then the gross momentum of the system is now 3 units where it was 2 units before entering the portal.
@Rye-Bread
@Rye-Bread 11 ай бұрын
@@venomo2868 yes, and that breaks the universe and your cube may become dark matter
@Izzmonster
@Izzmonster 11 ай бұрын
Portals do not affect inertia, the cube would not gain speed nor would it move in either scenario.
@Graytail
@Graytail 5 ай бұрын
@@Izzmonster until more than half of it is out of the exit portal, then gravity would pull it over onto the ground.
@illagevidiot8254
@illagevidiot8254 7 ай бұрын
What stationary cube people are missing is that they're perceiving the cube as the fixed point in space here, when in reality you should view it as the opposite. Portals are effectively an infinitely expandable fixed point in space, where the entrance "percieves" space at a fixed point relative to it when it's moving (despite still being a fixed point in space), and the exit has the space from the entrance moving relative to it. This is an important distinction. To the exit portal, the floor in this case is launching the cube at the same speed the entrance portal is moving. If the second portal is moving away from the direction the floor is moving relative to it, it adds to the speed of the launch, as the floor will still be coming towards it at the same relative speed no matter what the portal is doing, but it is also moving relative to the object through it. The floor effectively gains the speed of the exit portal, causing a farther launch. This is also why if you put two portals on opposide sides of a wall and move them both past the object, its effectively no different than cutting a hole in said wall. The second the entrance portal stops is the second the cube launches. No different than a catapult. Obviously there would be some weird gravitational stuff involved as one part of the portal would be feeling gravity at a different point to the other initially, but in a space without gravity this is how it would work. If you have it stop half way down the cube, the launch would likely be half as powerful as well, as only half of the cube is moving relative to the exit portal, while the other half is stationary relative to the entrance portal.
@blackchoco_09
@blackchoco_09 4 жыл бұрын
I feel like Henry just tackled this century-old paradox because he just bought it from the Steam Summer Sale lmao
@LeeBuddy
@LeeBuddy 4 жыл бұрын
Gaben is pleased
@skeletonrowdie1768
@skeletonrowdie1768 4 жыл бұрын
Steam sales pushing educational technology since...
@sleepi5550
@sleepi5550 4 жыл бұрын
I bought it yesterday :)
@Jared7873
@Jared7873 4 жыл бұрын
@@skeletonrowdie1768 Playstation VR Convenience Store Simulator Demonstration?
@firefish111
@firefish111 4 жыл бұрын
What about one portal moving into the the other end??
@125conman
@125conman 3 жыл бұрын
Everyone should play portal once in their life. Such a great game
@kiven_gamez4474
@kiven_gamez4474 3 жыл бұрын
Not on console sadly
@125conman
@125conman 3 жыл бұрын
@@kiven_gamez4474 ...why not? Ive played portal 1 on 360 and portal two on both console and PC. They seemed great except you can't play the costume maps on console (that's how it was 7+ years ago, things may have changed)
@The_Nordic_Doctor
@The_Nordic_Doctor 3 жыл бұрын
*at least once . ?
@RTS-APERTURE
@RTS-APERTURE 3 жыл бұрын
Kiven_Gamez I play 1 and 2 on Xbox 1 bruh 🤣 what world you live in?
@joemackay6368
@joemackay6368 3 жыл бұрын
I've played portal 2 at least 30 times
@laughingvampire7555
@laughingvampire7555 10 ай бұрын
another option is that if an entry portal moves then the exist portal has to move at the same speed. So the speed should be relative from the portal to the object itself, I think of portals like tubes or rings which are the same, the only difference is what is bigger the length or the diameter.
@guimon78
@guimon78 3 ай бұрын
You remember that game, hole in the wall? The things passing through the holes didn't push the objects unless they clipped the side of it. The way this boils down in terms of portals is simple. 1. The portal is moving down, meaning it presses into the ground which moves the location but adds 0 velocity 2. The portal is moving sideways, and since it can't be an open shape the bottom of the portal, however small, pushes against the object. With a small enough gap between the edge of the portal and the ground, the object would be picked up slightly since it's easier to lift up then be pushed.
@aaronyeetosaurous6564
@aaronyeetosaurous6564 4 жыл бұрын
0:16 the technical term is "Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out,"
@robertjones6891
@robertjones6891 4 жыл бұрын
Exactly, and in order for something to enter a portal, it must have some relative movement toward said portal. Whether it's the portal or the object that are in motion shouldn't matter in that respect. I'd imagine if portals like these actually did exist, they'd lead to quite a few changes in our current understanding of physics.
@bolson481
@bolson481 4 жыл бұрын
Aaron Yeetosaurous yep why did they make this video it’s obviously a
@ryanwolf1869
@ryanwolf1869 4 жыл бұрын
Aaron Yeetosaurous the thing is not speedy, the thing it’s going through is though. If stood on a platform and a ring was lowered down to your feet really fast would you get yote out? No.
@kevinvu5432
@kevinvu5432 4 жыл бұрын
@@robertjones6891 if you drop a slab of wood with a hole over a rubiks cube. Does the same apply?
@sierra1513
@sierra1513 3 жыл бұрын
@@kevinvu5432 both ends of the hole have opposite velocities relative to the cube so it cancels out
@hauntbygaunt
@hauntbygaunt 4 жыл бұрын
Minutephysics: the portal para- Me: *Speedy Thing Goes In Speedy Thing Comes Out*
@l0k1nycc
@l0k1nycc 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, The first law of portal physics.
@karelpgbr
@karelpgbr 4 жыл бұрын
In layman’s terms:
@Arkouchie
@Arkouchie 4 жыл бұрын
But the thing isn't speedy. The things "speed" relative the environment is 0. That's the entire point of this video.
@iunnoo
@iunnoo 4 жыл бұрын
@@Arkouchie yes but relative to the Portal there is speed
@Acefdiamonds
@Acefdiamonds 4 жыл бұрын
Is it bad I read that in glados's voice
@notobenex5538
@notobenex5538 2 ай бұрын
А вы преставьте порталы в качестве дверной рамки. По сути портал это и есть дверь. И вот представим: лежит объект на поле и на него падает дверная рамка, что произойдёт? Дверная рамка упадёт на объект, а объект продолжит стоять на месте как не в чём не бывало. Так почему если бросить на обьект портал, он должен вдруг из не откуда получить скорость? Портал это дверь ведущая из одной точки в другую, ваша дверь в комнате, ведёт из комнаты в коридор, а падающая рамка на объект ведёт объект в одно и тоже место. Но портал позволяет вам появится а другом месте с теми же характеристиками. Если бы портал имел какое-нибудь гравитационное поле, то да, я бы поверил что вылетить из портала будет возможно, так как он вас своей гравитацией вытолкнет, но без гравитации, там нечему вас выталкивать.
@kickthattable
@kickthattable 9 ай бұрын
In my opinion, Scenario A seems the less plausible. Portals connect two points in space without creating any new space. Therefore, the time it takes for an object to enter one portal should be identical to the time it takes for the object to exit the other portal. So, if an orange portal moves slowly towards an object, than that object should also emerge slowly from the blue portal. Similarly, if the orange portal moves toward an object at like Mach 10, then that object should theoretically exit the blue portal at an equivalent velocity. The velocity of the object relative to the portal has to be preserved so that the time between entering and exiting the portal stays consistent. If it doesn't, then where would the object momentarily exist? Given that portals don't create new space, just connect existing spaces, the relative velocity at which an object enters a portal should dictate the velocity at which it exits. Since the object exits with a certain velocity and has mass, it would also possess momentum, thus it would result in Scenario B (or maybe C). The only way Scenario A could work is if the portals somehow momentarily changed the mass of objects as they passed through, but that just feels like making up rules. Thoughts? (note i am not an expert in physics or anything so my reasoning could be wrong.)
@hypersonicMC
@hypersonicMC 4 жыл бұрын
Minutephysics: It depends whether you think more like a programmer or more like a physicist. Me, dual majoring physics and computer science: *Visible confusion*
@panlis6243
@panlis6243 4 жыл бұрын
I go with the B option even tho I work as a programmer
@briiteNIITEliite
@briiteNIITEliite 4 жыл бұрын
Jesus christ. You're a next level masochist. I'm having a difficult enough time just with CS
@bigbossjo
@bigbossjo 4 жыл бұрын
This your time, to discover your real you; my advice; follow you heart
@Hangman11
@Hangman11 4 жыл бұрын
You wanna get more confused? Imagine the portal wouldnt move at all and the moving pillar would be pushed through the entrance portal from the backside. With enough pressure anything bigger than the portal would just be cut off. But when its true that the portal doesnt move at all, it wouldnt move with the earth spinning and flying through the universe thus cutting a giant hole in the earth while the earth is moving through the portal. Although i guess the portal cant not move since relativity or smth
@gravity4261
@gravity4261 4 жыл бұрын
Portals are just holes that happen to connect, if you cut a hole in a piece of cardboard and set a leggo in a table then slammed the cardboard with the hole onto the lego so that the lego went thru the hole would it shoot out the other end?
@rinhd1977
@rinhd1977 4 жыл бұрын
Portal right now costs 0,81€ on steam. This can't be a coincidence.
@weirdshamanwizzard3156
@weirdshamanwizzard3156 4 жыл бұрын
RiꜱᴇnHᴇᴇd 1$=0.81€
@Netsuki
@Netsuki 4 жыл бұрын
I think it is. Cause we have Summer Sale. And Valve gives good offs of their products.
@Seekay37
@Seekay37 4 жыл бұрын
It's Steam Summer Sale. Valve always makes their games dirt cheap during this time.
@mmseng2
@mmseng2 4 жыл бұрын
TBH Valve has frequently given Portal (1) away for free several times. But I'm guessing by "not a coincidence" you mean to imply that the sale is what brought it to the top of Minute Physics' mind.
@Jancias
@Jancias 4 жыл бұрын
Great games for cheap prices...
@backslash153
@backslash153 Жыл бұрын
Actually there are moving portals in the game, you shoot one at the moon, the portal on it then moves quite dramatically with respect to the portal left on earth. And that also proves that velocity is seen relative to the entrance portal, not environment or a combined system. :D
@typhoon1575
@typhoon1575 11 ай бұрын
Any one who argues for case A seems to forget a fundamental thing here. Even in the worst case scenario. The first part of the cube, the top, goes through the portal. And then the rest of the box pushes it through, giving it some velocity. The way by which you go from orange portal to blue is irrelevant Think of the situation at the destination, static portal. Thing comes out at speed. Just because it was standing still before the moving portal hits it doesn't change that It's moving on the exit side. And will hold that velocity
@typhoon1575
@typhoon1575 11 ай бұрын
Oh and before any armchair experts try to mention it. Portals, if they could exist, break the laws of thermodynamics and energy conservation by merely existing. Acquiring velocity and energy through this isn't that much of a stretch
@J4hk2
@J4hk2 11 ай бұрын
Don't worry, the only other person who tends to bother responding to these comments is me and I'm fully with you.
@typhoon1575
@typhoon1575 11 ай бұрын
@@J4hk2 yea I got recommended this video again, and option B feels so obvious that it bugs me that people try to ignore the fact were working with entry and exit points that can be in different states of motion
@metokurssecretsock-account6934
@metokurssecretsock-account6934 4 жыл бұрын
Moving portals should be in portal 3. But that will never happen because valve can't count to 3.
@connorharker6548
@connorharker6548 4 жыл бұрын
Just remember at a gaming event Gabe said "yove killed more than 2 people but less than 4" Like come on just say 3
@stardustcorpse
@stardustcorpse 4 жыл бұрын
Portals *can* move so long as the surface they're on is moving within the same plane, and not changing orientation. As in, not on a surface that lifts, pivots, or flips.
@andrewnguyen6842
@andrewnguyen6842 4 жыл бұрын
connor harker Oh my god, did he actually said that? Give me the damn link!
@dantecavallin8229
@dantecavallin8229 4 жыл бұрын
@@stardustcorpse It can, because the velocity is relative to the portal. If the portal flips then the object flips too. In space we measure by relativity so instead of measuring its velocity relatively to earth we measure its velocity relatively to the portal. That way it is as if the object is standing still but just surrounded by a moving gravity.
@p1CM
@p1CM 4 жыл бұрын
Six comments, divide by portal 2... Portal 3 confirmed!
@azraphon
@azraphon 3 жыл бұрын
The portals aren't teleportation. It's just making a continuous space where there normally isn't one, it's no more teleportation than you walking into your kitchen.
@user-pl7tf9gv8e
@user-pl7tf9gv8e 3 жыл бұрын
Then wtf is teleportation
@legoindiecomments1344
@legoindiecomments1344 3 жыл бұрын
That's why I imagine it as A. If blue portal was on a wall, and orange portal was above you moving down wards, you would be half in one portal and half in the other. Legs would be glued to the floor due to gravity until enough of your weight was through the blue portal and then you'd fall to the floor there. From the perspective of blue portal, it would look like the floor you are on is the part moving, moving up and putting you through. It wouldn't behave any different than a doorway moving past you when you're standing still, you just have to factor how you'll be impacted by different gravity on different parts of your body.
@lorenz0c0rdova65
@lorenz0c0rdova65 3 жыл бұрын
Teleportation is Half-Lifes thing. It is used to move to point a between dimensions to move to point b. It is brought back in 2 where they manages to just sling past Xen and just telelport, but it takes some time and I am sure it Deatamizes you in one space and Reatamizes you in another. Portals'... portal's are just tears in space time or a small form a time travel as in Portal 2 Cave Johnson mentions that the you in a Portal is you from another time, so don't stare at it. Also portals are like folding a piece of paper and poking a hole through it to walk through between those points. You stay as you just moving through a hole instantly. So you are you just walking through what is essential a door.
@lamegamertime
@lamegamertime 3 жыл бұрын
So you could imagine that the portal accelerating to you would be like a door accelerating to you. Option A is the answer.
@Pup_Pryde
@Pup_Pryde 3 жыл бұрын
exactly. imagine i drop a hula hoop around someone, they pass right through it. the fact that one side of the hoop is on the other side of the room is completely irrelevant.
@EmperorZ19
@EmperorZ19 8 ай бұрын
Quite frankly, A makes no sense at all unless you only think of the (impossible) case in which the entire solid object instantaneously moves from one side of the portal to the other. I've always arrived at B by imagining what happens while the portal is in the process of moving over the object. While this is happening, the object is presumably emerging from the out-portal at the same rate that the in-portal is traveling downwards. If this is the case, then the particles composing the object ARE moving with momentum through the out-space, unquestionably. And there's no reason that they wouldn't retain that momentum as the object finishes emerging. Another way to think about it, in light of your example at 3 minutes, is that those slices DO appear on the other side, unmoving, but the next slice is right behind it and pushes it forward... which just produces the same effect as B. Or, if you assume that the slices don't retain their bonds and can't affect each other when on opposite sides of the portal, then they're just going to become a soup of particles trying to occupy the same space. (Though, since characters never have to consider the risk of being cut in half by going partway through a portal and then stepping back, I would assume that atomic bonds do hold.) There's no model in which an object can emerge from the portal both intact and without momentum. The option are B and disintegration. A much simpler example that indicates why it's B is this: Consider what would happen if the box were sitting on a tall pillar, narrow enough to pass through the portal. The portal passes over the box, and the box is now on the opposite side, but so is a portion of the pillar. As the in-portal continues to go lower, more of the pillar emerges from the portal as well, pushing the box diagonally up and to the right. And then, if you stop, the box is going to go flying in that direction. (this is essentially the same thing as what happens in the box-only case, just on an object scale rather than an atomic scale)
@plentyofpaper
@plentyofpaper Жыл бұрын
My interpretatios is like this: You are standing on the ground in universe A. Universe B is on the other side of the portal, facing up. The portal comes down on you at 5mph. You emerge from the floor of universe B at 5mph, driven by the floor in universe A. You don't pop up, because universe B hits the ground of universe A once you are fully emerged. Or if it kept going, a cylinder of ground would continue to rise up out of the portal. Like using a hole saw. Universe A and Universe B are in fact the same universe, but I think this is consistent with how the game works, and makes sense from a physics perspective. It's kind of like slamming a cup down on top of a spider to catch it. The spider enters the cup real fast, but doesn't continue heading up until it hits the base of the cup, because once the cup hits the ground, the speed of the cup quickly matches the speed of the spider.
@OkaeriDome
@OkaeriDome 4 жыл бұрын
"It's a paradox, there is no answer!" ~GLaDOS, 2011
@MatiEP09
@MatiEP09 4 жыл бұрын
XD
@MatiEP09
@MatiEP09 4 жыл бұрын
I remember she said something like this when trying to beat wheatley with paradoxes.
@coolbuck7214
@coolbuck7214 4 жыл бұрын
Yes I answer yes Wheatly 2011
@feather314
@feather314 3 жыл бұрын
True, I’ll go true
@ninjafahita
@ninjafahita 3 жыл бұрын
"Don't think about it. Don't think about it. Don't think about it. Don't think about it." Glados 2011
@rairose4944
@rairose4944 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe this is why you can't have a portal on a moving object.
@Overload151
@Overload151 4 жыл бұрын
Yeah... I think Valve notice that it would be even more tricky to move the portals around, so they made every puzzle with static portals XD
@geraq0
@geraq0 4 жыл бұрын
There is one puzzle in Portal 2 that has you putting a portal on a platform that is moving vertically, so lasers can cut down a pipe. I think the dev commentary says that is the only instance in the whole game such thing happens, every other moving object (a hatch door, for example) instantly disintegrates the portal it has on.
@c0ldshock927
@c0ldshock927 4 жыл бұрын
@@geraq0 portals can only be placed on conductive surfaces. The doors aren't conductive,and aren't coated in conductive material either. That's why you can make portals on white surfaces, because that has ground up moon rocks. The white gel is made with moon dust,which is why it makes surfaces conductive. And the ending of Portal 2 shows this as well.
@geraq0
@geraq0 4 жыл бұрын
@@c0ldshock927 Yes, I know that. That wasn't my point at all. I was talking about hatches activated by switches, for example, that change angles hence deleting any portal created over them.
@Silikone
@Silikone 4 жыл бұрын
Earth is moving.
@RAYNE0912
@RAYNE0912 11 ай бұрын
For some reason this made me think of the portals like slinky's. And I'm just imagining moving the portal onto a stationary object the sane as dropping one end of a slinky over a stationary object. Now I'm wondering what the environment inside of the portals is like. I'm sure none of this would match up with theories of wormholes, teleporters, or quantum tunneling larfe scale objects but my brain went there
@OUTSIDER40
@OUTSIDER40 9 ай бұрын
Thank you for making this video it was very cool 😎
@SirThyrm
@SirThyrm 3 жыл бұрын
I always thought of them as a ring that was split. Teleportation is like putting a ring around something else, but this coming out of the ring is placed different in spaces. As if it was a tunnel with the length of 0.
@Lance3015
@Lance3015 3 жыл бұрын
so A, right?
@hushwonder2070
@hushwonder2070 3 жыл бұрын
@@Lance3015 it'd still be B. From the perspective of the side of the ring the cube is leaving, it's still coming out of that side at a certain velocity relative to it, therefore that velocity would be maintained.
@Paradox66199
@Paradox66199 3 жыл бұрын
@@hushwonder2070 Not true, it makes no interaction with the cube itself therefore it would not carry over the velocity. There is effectively no space; open air in-between the portal boundaries and they've never interfered with the objects passing through them like you say
@AnonYmous-spyonmepls
@AnonYmous-spyonmepls 3 жыл бұрын
@@Wert-eo7sz Maybe the portal is not moving but disappearing and reappearing at a different point in space quickly that case the object would go through you. and the laws of physics still would work.
@FlaWLessMinigun
@FlaWLessMinigun 3 жыл бұрын
@@Wert-eo7sz Our current understanding of the universe isn't very great...
@FurNaxxYT
@FurNaxxYT 4 жыл бұрын
Aperture Labs uses quantum tunneling if I remember correctly whereas Black Mesa was dabbling in wormholes
@miletilblight2181
@miletilblight2181 4 жыл бұрын
Yep
@CEntertainArt
@CEntertainArt 4 жыл бұрын
@cak01vej this would obviously not be the case for wormholes, as I think you already know!
@bananacars1684
@bananacars1684 4 жыл бұрын
@cak01vej don't forget that portals are essentialy just doors that open elsewhere so using a portal like this would act the same way as hitting a static object on a table with a tennis racket without strings the only loophole is the laws of gravity not momentum
@RhinoHand
@RhinoHand 4 жыл бұрын
@cak01vej That would hurt a bit
@iPhr0stByt3
@iPhr0stByt3 4 жыл бұрын
B seems the most intuitive and so also applies to the final puzzle: object would exist at an angle.
@alexyuri_94
@alexyuri_94 Жыл бұрын
"how could a stationary object come out of a stationary portal?" That's the answer! The portal is not stationary. You treated the two ends as separate things, but they are the same points in spacetime. The thing is... The orange portal acts like a moving camera, and the blue one as the screen you see the footage. If B was correct, than you're creating a force from nowhere
@J4hk2
@J4hk2 Жыл бұрын
You can't treat the portal as a singular point without abandoning the fundamentals of what they do. Acknowledging their ability to transport you requires acknowledging their positions in two points in space as it's between those two points that they transport you for example. At a fundamental level you have to acknowledge the object is moving on leaving the stationary portal exit, it's not a question of arguing that the portal is distorting things because its a part of the object that isn't in the portal anymore. It's not even a question of arguing that it only appears to be moving. The problem with your camera/screen analogy is that we're looking at part of the object has left the "screen" already and is quite literally occupying the space outside the portal while moving through said space. If you were to put your head at the exit portal as the cube came out you could be quite literally hit by the exiting cube which you argued was only ever moving towards you as an illusion. Thing is portals are already make changes to an object's velocity. It's the entire purpose of the portal fling technique in the games. You use portals to change a downward velocity to a sideways one. This change in velocity would also traditionally require a force, so the portal is, in the sense "creating a force from nowhere" unless you accept that portals are able to alter velocities of objects without it involving a force.
@tonyandraza5662
@tonyandraza5662 Жыл бұрын
In relativity, there is no absolute motion (as was mentioned) which means the notion that the portal is moving is exactly as valid as saying the cube is moving and the portal is stationary. Thus the behavior of a cube moving into the portal is EXACTLY the same as the portal moving towards the cube. Since we know the effect of a cube moving into a portal, we know the effect in a hypothetical 'real' world where the portal is 'in motion' would be identical. Consider a portal that is stationary and a cube passes into it... We know the effect. Now consider that the portal is sitting on the back of a truck that is in motion and cube is stationary.... Then consider that the truck is on a rotating planet.... and so on and so on. At no point will you ever discover a fixed point. Motion is relative. The only thing that matters is the motion within the frame of reference.
@Pesslus
@Pesslus 2 жыл бұрын
Quote by GlaDOS: "Momentum, a function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In layman's terms, speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out."
@breakerboy365
@breakerboy365 2 жыл бұрын
conversely, if a speedy thing comes out, a speedy thing went in
@sneednfeed5559
@sneednfeed5559 Жыл бұрын
Counterpoint momentum is not conserved because the direction of the object changes therefore glados is a lying pos
@xezzee
@xezzee Жыл бұрын
When neither portal is moving 👍 When one of the portals is moving with constant speed as in 0 acceleration the object passing trough orange portal experience 0 acceleration and comes out of blue portal with same speed as Orange Portal had. What happens when you stop the portal mid point of the box? in that moment when you stop the portal instantly in place trough the object is felt two foces that pull each other one tries to stay still and other is moving 50km/h and if your human neck can with stand that kind of instant pull 😏 15 hours later while super drunk someone said "it is like hula hula rim!" and we came in to conclusion the moment you slam it to someones head and start pulling the head should be flying off in the most brutal way possible 😂
@valentinorubio703
@valentinorubio703 Жыл бұрын
yeah but it's not "speedy portal rams into, speedy thing comes out"
@xezzee
@xezzee Жыл бұрын
@@valentinorubio703 I spend 17h drunk arguing about this topic and to sum it up: Orange Portal's speed is given to the object without acceleration. Everything else ended up with "Well that that can't be right" and we also never agreed who of us won the argument :D perhaps we all lost.
@nathankingham1248
@nathankingham1248 4 жыл бұрын
According to GLaDOS in the first game: "Momentum, the function of mass and velocity, is conserved between portals. In laments terms: Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out". Since the object enters the portal with zero momentum, we must assume it leaves the portal with the same momentum. Thus, the correct answer, according to GLaDOS, is option A
@beefybread5769
@beefybread5769 4 жыл бұрын
What the1necromancer just said in laments terms means that the speed is relative to the portals. So if portal is speedy and moving towards speedy companion cube, lets say, the same speed towards eachother, then the cube would come out at 2x the speed.
@adamguenther190
@adamguenther190 4 жыл бұрын
You are exactly right, I can’t believe they don’t say this in the video. The box has no kinetic energy so it cannot have kinetic energy going out of the portal
@beefybread5769
@beefybread5769 4 жыл бұрын
@@adamguenther190 he never said it because there was never a need to say it. Things like speed and measurement are not definite, they are relative. Meaning it is measured relatively to another object. So the cubes speed is measured relatively to the portal, meaning that if the cube and a portal were moving towards eachother at the same speed, then the cube would leave the exit portal at twice the speed.
@yaddar
@yaddar 4 жыл бұрын
This The portal is basically a door If you are not moving and a door with a door moves towards you, you will still not be moving by the time you arrive to the other side of the door
@beefybread5769
@beefybread5769 4 жыл бұрын
@@yaddar how many times do i have to say that speed is measured RELATIVELY. Imagine you are walking in the same direction a train is moving, lets say you and the train were moving 3 MPH. If your speed was measured relative to the ground, you would be moving 6 MPH. If your speed was measured relatively to the train, it would be 3 MPH. Its basically the same thing for the portal, except this time, the portal would be moving at you. Its literally what the1necromancer said. If you are moving towards a portal which is moving towards you at the same speed, your body would go theough twice as fast as opposed to having the portal stay in the same place.
@XenoFireStar
@XenoFireStar 11 ай бұрын
The reeality is I think A, but what we perceive is B because the estra bits that try to make it through the moving portal shove bits that already made it through out of the way. This results in no pancake cube.
@nahnahnahokeoke
@nahnahnahokeoke 9 ай бұрын
197 is going WILD on this paradox
@NamingIsHard828
@NamingIsHard828 9 ай бұрын
My man
@DefinitelyNotJerry5
@DefinitelyNotJerry5 4 жыл бұрын
*Minutepsysics:* Let's talk about Portal Paradox which isn't actually a paradox... *Me:* That's a nice paradox.
@JoshTW030
@JoshTW030 3 жыл бұрын
Valve: Portals can't move Also valve: Let's use moving portals towards the end of the second games
@moonl1314
@moonl1314 3 жыл бұрын
moon rotation yes
@bullzebub
@bullzebub 2 жыл бұрын
i mean.. they must be able to move since we are all moving.
@ryzatheduck5195
@ryzatheduck5195 2 жыл бұрын
That moment is near the middle.
@creativename3707
@creativename3707 2 жыл бұрын
your logic can apply to earth too, making the portal gun useless
@oracleharbinger9729
@oracleharbinger9729 2 жыл бұрын
@@moonl1314 earth moving too)
@busterkeaton6528
@busterkeaton6528 11 ай бұрын
The way it would work is option B. The portals canonically are trans-dimensional, so they open up holes to other dimensions, not the same dimension. It's just lucky there's an infinite number of imperceptibly near-identical dimensions. It's important to note that the way the game is programmed and the way the portals function canonically are not the same thing. In fact, it might've been even easier to code if they'd thought about the way option B explains the mechanics of trans-dimensional gateways. What the portals actually do is as follows: The entry portal changes your velocity relative to the exit portal. That is the simplest way to think of it. The way to imagine this in practice is to imagine a cube (say, a companion cube) is sitting perfectly balanced on top of a long, thin, metal pole. The entry portal flies down over the cube, and because the pole is thinner than the cube, the portal slides down some of the pole, too, before suddenly stopping. If you were observing the exit portal, you would see the metal pole spear out of it with the cube at its tip. The pole would appear to be thrusting the cube through the air until the pole stopped moving (at the same time the entry portal stopped), but because the cube isn't attached to the pole it would fly off, maintaining the velocity the entry portal gave it relative to the exit portal. The only reason the pole doesn't fly off, too, is because it's firmly attached to something that can't fit inside the entry portal (i.e.: the ground) And the velocity achieved by the entry portal isn't fast enough for the mass of the pole to tear/break itself when the portal stops. (Theoretically, if the portal moved fast enough and stopped fast enough (read: instantaneously), there is a speed at which an object would simply rip itself apart and fly away from the exit portal with its newly-imparted velocity.) If you think it's option A, your brain doesn't work right. And option C or any other option ignores how the portals canonically function. Option B is the only result that makes any sense. I think the more interesting question to all of this is: How could you utilize the imparted velocity to do fun and interesting things? For example, if the entry portal only moved partway down the cube and then suddenly stopped, how fast would it need to move and how much of the cube would it need to transport before the mass and velocity of the cube on the exit side were enough to lift the cube off of its platform on the entry side?
@mattturner3484
@mattturner3484 11 ай бұрын
Option b makes the most sense to me at first blush, but the saddest thing about portals is that they /can't/ obey conservation of energy, so it's all kind of moot. This is exemplified by the what happens when you place a portal on a floor and a portal directly above it: anything that falls through the floor effectively has infinite potential energy.
@colemanbubar5098
@colemanbubar5098 10 ай бұрын
Well, if we assume that portals actively consume energy, we can satisfy conservation of energy by concluding that any energy gained by raising the cube is less than or equal to the energy lost through keeping the portals active.
@ascaban6220
@ascaban6220 4 жыл бұрын
Portals don't work on moving platform... Except for that one time in the neurotoxin generator room
@ascaban6220
@ascaban6220 4 жыл бұрын
@Cris Angelo D.C I think that that was actually a storage unit not a generator but wheatley was kinda dumb so he thought it made it
@maxlinker44
@maxlinker44 4 жыл бұрын
That's what I was thinking about
@barackobama8309
@barackobama8309 4 жыл бұрын
So weird how it's just that one spot where it works and nowhere else
@makinbacon21
@makinbacon21 4 жыл бұрын
Ascaban I’m p sure u can do it in Portal 2 custom editor
@ERROR_-_404
@ERROR_-_404 4 жыл бұрын
@@makinbacon21 you cant. as far as i know, there is a console command that, if 'true' causes a portal to disappear if the ground they're on moves. that command always stays active, apart from that one level.
@alexsiemers7898
@alexsiemers7898 4 жыл бұрын
2:17 and considering Valve themselves have referred to the portals as “quantum space holes” in some promos for Portal 2, this is _the way_ the portals work.
@hinamiravenroot7162
@hinamiravenroot7162 3 жыл бұрын
They do obey conservation of momentum like he said yet he is still drawing the conclusion b that "if fast go in fast go out" If the cube was on a pillar, the pillar wouldnt be send flying just because a hole slammed into it. And the cube would rest on top of the pillar until the gravity on the blue side would pull harder than the gravity on the orange side
@pasccc
@pasccc Жыл бұрын
Nice video man!
@Astrophague
@Astrophague Жыл бұрын
C: it would shoot out of blue at a angle because the cube is traveling at x velocity downwards while the portal is moving at y velocity left . Let’s let x and y equal 3 and you have the cube moving 3 velocity downwards and 3 left, and since the portal would flip the velocities it would travel both directions at 3 velocity. (Up and right) Also we use pythagorean theorem to solve the velocity which would be 3^2 + 3^2= c^2 9+9=c^2 18=c^2 √ 18=x x=3√ 2, so the velocity of the cube was 3√ 2 N theoretically
@Astrophague
@Astrophague Жыл бұрын
C=X
@darmstadtschaa
@darmstadtschaa 4 жыл бұрын
absolutely no one: minutephysics: lets give this old paradox that the internet has argued about for a decade another step of complexity
@luck3949
@luck3949 4 жыл бұрын
We definitely need to think about accelerating portals.
@asmer3302
@asmer3302 4 жыл бұрын
Its just /v/ shilling
@Tyunz
@Tyunz 4 жыл бұрын
@@luck3949 but first, let's talk about parallel universes
@polynngt8853
@polynngt8853 4 жыл бұрын
327likes in 1hours? I cant even get 10likes in year
@HandledToaster2
@HandledToaster2 4 жыл бұрын
You're so original
@notsaying9794
@notsaying9794 4 жыл бұрын
But GLaDOS already answered that. "In layman's terms: Speedy thing comes in, speedy thing comes out."
@TheRedKing247
@TheRedKing247 4 жыл бұрын
But that's for stationary portals. Moving portals would be different because their rules aren't defined in the game.
@ChrisPepper1989
@ChrisPepper1989 4 жыл бұрын
Therefore, 'Stationary thing comes in, Stationary thing comes out" #thinkinglikeaprogrammer
@Chutley
@Chutley 4 жыл бұрын
yes they are, portal 2 has a moving portal in the section where you cut neurotoxin pipes, and the laser exiting the portal has the same wavelength/colour as the one entering.
@alexbm5128
@alexbm5128 4 жыл бұрын
@@ChrisPepper1989 I read that as pro gamer
@lovecontemplation8607
@lovecontemplation8607 4 жыл бұрын
TornadoATP but the portals obey the laws of nature it exists in. And the cube has no momentum while the portal has one. This cannot be translated without adding energy to the cube. So either the portal translates energy from the portal itself to an object. Option B. Or its the objects momentum that matters. Option A.
@fafmotorsport
@fafmotorsport Жыл бұрын
Thanks for that final puzzle you left us with. I WANTED to sleep tonight but now…
@sideways5153
@sideways5153 9 ай бұрын
If you imagine the portals as infinitely short tunnels, you can expand the concept to a general case for all wormhole-like pathways. When you slam a tube down around an object, the object doesn’t gain momentum through the tube; the motion of the object relative to the tube is entirely dependent on the tube. In this way it can be argued that case a (plopping out on the other side) is the resolution of the paradox. On the other hand, if you consider the portal as comparable to a hand coming down around a wet bar of soap, an argument can be made for case b (object goes flying). When you grab a bar of soap, you need to exert force upon the bar as you grip it. This force commonly and easily launches the soap out of your hands, in spite of not adding any apparent momentum to the soap. The energy gained by the soap is sourced from invisible interaction between the object and the passage it travels through (in this case, the hand). This argument, essentially, is that one cannot actually pass freely through a portal which is in motion. In order for the object to gain speed as it passes through the portal, the portal itself would need to be exerting some force on the object (otherwise the object would remain inert, according to the generalized case of a tunnel of arbitrary length). Either a moving portal “squeezes” objects passing through due to some unseen interaction between the membrane/field of the portal and said object, or the object does not gain momentum. Put into terms of energy, unless some unseen mechanism transfers energy from the moving portal to the object enveloped by the portal, it’s impossible for the portal to cause the object to accelerate. Yet another example would be jumping through a window on a moving vehicle, without touching the frame of the window, while the start and end point of the jump are both stationary from the perspective of the person jumping. The properties of the vehicle don’t matter - it could be a bullet train loaded to maximum capacity, or it could be a bike meandering through a neighborhood. From the perspective of the person jumping, all that changes is which side of the window they occupy. In order for the person to fly like a rocket out the other side of the window, the vehicle would need to transfer some kind of energy or momentum to them. Barring some kind of novel discovery about topology or vector addition, I feel like this one isn’t toooooo hard to suss out. But then again I dropped out of college lmao
@johnlowkey359
@johnlowkey359 4 жыл бұрын
I'm surprised you didn't mention gravity. The block sitting experiences torque as soon as it begins to pass through. It should exit the second portal with rotation.
@Certrix
@Certrix 4 жыл бұрын
Exactly what I thought, it wouldn't flatten, gravity would pull the heavier side of the block, the one leaving portal B, completely out of the portal.
@kurokamireaper3761
@kurokamireaper3761 4 жыл бұрын
It should fall off the second portal, right?
@Certrix
@Certrix 4 жыл бұрын
Kurokami Reaper It should, yes
@Sivah_Akash
@Sivah_Akash 4 жыл бұрын
@@Certrix, it would flatten. Since the tiny bit first teleported stays in the frame of the teleporter, it experiences gravity from the sites of both the entry and exit portals.
@MistahJuicyBoy
@MistahJuicyBoy 4 жыл бұрын
@@Sivah_Akash That doesn't make sense. The normal force of the ground pushing on your feet equals the force gravity is pulling you down with. You don't flatten
@JorgeRomero13
@JorgeRomero13 4 жыл бұрын
In the games, the portals disappear if placed on a moving surface. Which can be explained by the logic that portals must remain at a constant distance and orientation from each other.
@robertyang4365
@robertyang4365 4 жыл бұрын
I don't think so. In Portal 2, when you're destroying the neurotoxin tubing, you do utilize portals that move relative to each other.
@totodaj
@totodaj 4 жыл бұрын
except if they are moving continously at the same speed
@feryth
@feryth 4 жыл бұрын
How about the moon portal?
@sjege
@sjege 4 жыл бұрын
In Portal 2 there is 1 moving portal
@NYCFenrir
@NYCFenrir 4 жыл бұрын
No there's moving platforms in Portal.
@YoutubeHandlesSuckBalls
@YoutubeHandlesSuckBalls Жыл бұрын
It depends on why the moving portal is moving, is it falling under its own weight or is a force being applied to it? Energy conservation says that for stationary portals the kinetic energy of the cube is maintained (speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out) so logically this still applies to a moving portal, the energy being used to move the portal over the stationary cube is added to the kinetic energy of the cube. If a very strong piston pushes the portal over the cube very quickly, then the cube will shoot out of the other end quickly, if the portal is falling with a weight of just a few grams over a cube that weighs much more, then only a very small force will be applied to the cube, and it will just barely plop out of the other end. In fact, if the end portal is angled upwards, then there may not be enough energy being added to the cube for it to fully emerge from the other end. There is no paradox as long as you understand the rules as explained in the game, the paradox only seems to appear if you fail to fully understand what is going on.
@Thes4LT
@Thes4LT 8 ай бұрын
Portals are just sort of like portable space; the game calls them interdimensional doorways or something like that. The cube in this situation isn't moving, but rather, space is moving around the cube, if that makes any sense. It would obviously be option A. If the cube itself had velocity, i.e. it were thrown through the portal, obviously it would retain its speed relative to the environment since it's akin to just throwing an object through any old space, like a doorway.
@J4hk3
@J4hk3 7 ай бұрын
Space moving around an object is identical to that object moving within the space, motion is relative. *_"obviously it would retain its speed relative to the environment"_* What's "the environment"? There's no reason for the portals to treat earth's reference frame as special, as we see in the games portals don't even have to be placed on earth. So when you say that speed is retained relative to an environment, the only rule that would be consistent is to use the reference frame where both ends of the portal are stationary. But there isn't one in the problem. If you go by the entrance portal's reference frame, that's the one where the cube is actually moving, which then explains how the cube can exit on the other end. Essentially the cube exits at the velocity it enters with, which sounds obvious, but the key thing is that entrance and exit velocities in inherently relative terms to the entrance and exit, including both relative speed, and relative direction. This just requires accepting that there isn't already a reference frame where the speed gets conserved. Going by the moon scene in portal 2 though that is already the case, we outright see that Chell's speed changes when she ends up at the moon, as being at the moon means moving with the moon, which actually moves incredibly fast in orbit.
@ennard9638
@ennard9638 3 жыл бұрын
Option D. : When a portal move its just disappear
@yukkahiro
@yukkahiro 3 жыл бұрын
*cough cough* neurotoxin generator *cough cough*
@RedLoveAi
@RedLoveAi 3 жыл бұрын
@@yukkahiro ahem ahem
@Prototrode
@Prototrode 3 жыл бұрын
then portals can’t exist on earth because it’s moving via gravity might not even exist anywhere in the universe because dark energy is funny topic
@ethandavies7608
@ethandavies7608 3 жыл бұрын
YuriNone well the neurotoxin emitter part was merely the only possible way to do said part. So you know. How else were you going to shut down the neurotoxin emitters for good
@scritch8833
@scritch8833 3 жыл бұрын
@@ethandavies7608 idk wheatley was screaming at me so i didn't really get to think also i think i inhaled neurotoxin
@slatefeather320
@slatefeather320 4 жыл бұрын
All I wanted to do was play portal, not question the exsistance of universe. But I'm glad I did.
@jessejordan5658
@jessejordan5658 4 жыл бұрын
i'm glados you did oof
@inkkles
@inkkles 4 жыл бұрын
@@jessejordan5658 this comment is just so funny to me and i hate you for it
@gramarnazzi7841
@gramarnazzi7841 4 жыл бұрын
@@slyceth *They're
@gramarnazzi7841
@gramarnazzi7841 4 жыл бұрын
*Existence
@mariogonzalez4928
@mariogonzalez4928 4 жыл бұрын
* Capitalize “I”s
@ontley
@ontley Жыл бұрын
For option B, what happens if the portal stops moving halfway across the object? Does the object get pulled through since half of it now has a velocity but the other half doesn't? Would objects get ripped apart if the speed is too high?
@robertobohm5328
@robertobohm5328 Жыл бұрын
this is what makes me think that it'd be more like option A, it's simply a window onto another point in space, think "hole in the wall" the american game show. And regarding the issue where only part of the object goes through, then what happens to it would depend on the center of mass of the object. if the center of mass has gone through the portal, then the object is under influence of gravity at the other side of the portal, wherever that is in space.
@trappedcosmos
@trappedcosmos Жыл бұрын
He did a video on this and it would shoot out with half the speed or break depending on the durability of the action
@londontheriault5138
@londontheriault5138 9 ай бұрын
Bro left us with more questions than the beginning
@luken2o223
@luken2o223 4 жыл бұрын
"In the game, the portals pretty much never move relative to the environment." Boom. Problem solved!
@elliebrooke3987
@elliebrooke3987 4 жыл бұрын
Except in the one part of portal two when they changed it for the sake of a fun mini-puzzle. And also the moon
@link_team3855
@link_team3855 4 жыл бұрын
Well. Only time the portals ever move relative to their surroundings is portal 2, the neurotoxin generator.
@luken2o223
@luken2o223 4 жыл бұрын
@@link_team3855 And how do the portals work? A or B?
@randomperson-kv5nx
@randomperson-kv5nx 4 жыл бұрын
@@luken2o223 can't be a you would be smushed like a pancake force on an object causes another to move except in videogames, like Minecraft the speed you go when you tp, you would be dead.
@funposting8912
@funposting8912 4 жыл бұрын
Luke N2O it was moving sideways, not vertically, so some argue “you can’t move them forwards and backwards in the direction they face, so it doesn’t count!” You could still do the test at the end of the video, however.
@gavart4509
@gavart4509 4 жыл бұрын
2:40 the ground gets closer to the portal The cube on the other end is affected by gravity I imagine it like a box going through a hoop If I drop the hoop onto the ground the cube is just in the middle and therefore on the other side of this hoop (other portal)
@fghsgh
@fghsgh 4 жыл бұрын
Actually, gravity would also be transported by the portal, so if you put one end on earth and one end in space, you would be pulled towards the portal as if it were the earth's surface.
@coolguysbro101
@coolguysbro101 4 жыл бұрын
fghsgh To be really technical in that situation, (to the point of being a dick) wouldn’t the jet of air coming through the portal into the vacuum outweigh that of the earths gravity? (A bit like the end of portal 2, the jet of air was greater than that of earth’s gravity and moon’s gravity combined. Enough to launch Wheatley & Space core into space)
@coolguysbro101
@coolguysbro101 4 жыл бұрын
fghsgh Another question would be how the portal would project the gravity of the earth?
@fghsgh
@fghsgh 4 жыл бұрын
@@coolguysbro101 The air may push you through the portal, but you'd still feel the gravity as only your skin gets pushed up but everything gets pulled down. So you can still feel the gravity, but you may be vacuumed through. If, however, you keep the portal open for long enough and the pressure evens out, gravity will have its influence back.
@arthurizando
@arthurizando 4 жыл бұрын
@@fghsgh Following the premise that portals do exist, they could not allow to gravity to pass through them because if they did their own existence would not be possible, since the implications of the bent of space time caused by gravity would affect the meter around the other portal leading to a massive tidal affects in the earth what would most likely tear apart the planet.
@nrogers5832
@nrogers5832 Жыл бұрын
I believe option A makes the most sense as the cube has no force applied to it when it enters, which means it has no force on the exit, creating no velocity. It wouldn't pile on itself either as moving the orange portal closer past the cube would in turn change the position of where the rest of the cube is at the ends of the blue portal.
@nicholasnolan2086
@nicholasnolan2086 Жыл бұрын
Okay but imagine the portal is coming down on you, how fast is it? You would have to exit out the other side bit by bit the same times each part enters. If it happens slowly, you can see on the exit portal how a person is being pushed out from head to toe. Now lets say the poral moves faster, their toes come out almost immediately after their head, their body would have had to move out that second portal at the same speed of the first portal coming down at them, surely they'd keep the momentum and wouldn't just flop to the ground after flying out the portal?
@midas.mp4
@midas.mp4 Жыл бұрын
@@nicholasnolan2086 but they don't HAVE any momentum to keep. you aren't being pushed through the portal, the portal is being pushed through you, remember, a portal is just a hole with disconnected ends.
@J4hk2
@J4hk2 Жыл бұрын
*_"It wouldn't pile on itself either as moving the orange portal closer past the cube would in turn change the position of where the rest of the cube is at the ends of the blue portal"_* That's movement. You've just described movement. Look up the definition of speed and velocity, they are both defined by the rate at which an object changes position in space (one being directional). At a fundamental level you're trying to argue something moves without obeying the laws of motion. Which state that the object will continue its current state of motion when there is nothing to change it.​ @@midas.mp4 *_"but they don't HAVE any momentum to keep. "_* The fact the portal left a stationary exit, something that requires velocity and momentum proves that they do. Portals alter momentum of objects passing though them. It's something they do even with the basic portal fling as both momentum and velocity are defined as having a direction and portal flings are all about changing the direction an object is traveling. And furthermore that's shown to be a change of movement that does obey the laws of motion, which continues when there is nothing to change it. In other words, you're trying to argue the portals induce a change in movement that don't obey the laws of motion when they already show that they induce a change in movement that does.
@LineOfThy
@LineOfThy Жыл бұрын
except because of relativity, a cube moving through a portal is the same thing as a portal moving through a cube.
@TehJumpingJawa
@TehJumpingJawa 11 ай бұрын
All these questions are easy to answer if you always consider the reference frame to be the portal closest to the cube (or part thereof). When you do this the calculation becomes deceptively simple; 1) calculate the forces acting on the portion of the cube still on the orange side of the portal (if any) 2) calculate the forces acting on the portion of the cube on the blue side of the portal (if any) 3) sum them to determine the total force acting upon the cube as a whole.
@hewhomustnotbenamed5912
@hewhomustnotbenamed5912 4 жыл бұрын
Physicists: Valve what will you do about moving portals? Valve: We'll make them disappear if they move. Physicists: Surprised Pikacu face.
@jfb-
@jfb- 4 жыл бұрын
Valve: makes portals move in one level anyway
@thanosattorneyatlaw4062
@thanosattorneyatlaw4062 4 жыл бұрын
@@jfb- Valve: **disables special code to do so**
@coolguy284_2
@coolguy284_2 4 жыл бұрын
@@thanosattorneyatlaw4062 Its not really special code, its the sv_allow_mobile_portals flag (accessible in console).
@thanosattorneyatlaw4062
@thanosattorneyatlaw4062 4 жыл бұрын
@@coolguy284_2 I was making it more dramatic........ It's a joke ..
@anselmschueler
@anselmschueler 4 жыл бұрын
Maps have a flag for enabling moving portals. In portal 2, you can enable this using the developer console. However, the Valve Developer Community site, this option causes moving portals to be non-traversable for anything but lasers.
@ShadyPossum
@ShadyPossum 4 жыл бұрын
I love that 12 years later were still talking about Portal
@NXE212
@NXE212 4 жыл бұрын
Altho there is no portal 3(beside bridge construction portal)
@restorer19
@restorer19 4 ай бұрын
I never conceptualized Portals the way Stargates are (eventually) explained. Portals are physical "holes" connecting one space to another - no intelligence, no deconstruction and reconstruction on the other side. If one portal is pressed against a wall, it doesn't cause anything entering the portal to be destroyed on a subatomic level on the other side - it just means you bump into the wall at the portal's boundary. [Stargates intelligently deconstruct any person/object entering the event horizon on one side, and reconstruct them on the other side, employing complicated tricks to (mostly) give the object the same relative orientation/speed/physical condition as when they entered, erring on the side of safety when necessary - they were, after all designed to transport people. Nothing can be partially on both sides of a Stargate pair. The major exception (which may have been by design explicitly for defense, and discovered very early by SGC) is if a barrier is placed extremely close to the event horizon, the connection can still be made and the origin gate will accept "passengers", but the receiving gate, though operating, can't reconstruct them in the space available.]
@Theepic750
@Theepic750 4 жыл бұрын
The literal term for portal is a doorway or hole between two places, if you have a moving door, your speed relative to it will stay constant
@Doglover745
@Doglover745 4 жыл бұрын
Ok but, doors and doorways aren't the same thing.
@Theepic750
@Theepic750 4 жыл бұрын
@@Doglover745 yes and a doorway is literally a portal
@Doglover745
@Doglover745 4 жыл бұрын
@@Theepic750 yes but, this is about the hypothetical kind. Which is clearly not what you're talking about.
@MrJesvi
@MrJesvi 4 жыл бұрын
@@Theepic750 I didn't think it was complicated, like the orange one comes down to the cube on the platform, then on the blue one you'd just have the the cube on top of the platform, with just the the cube fully thru, and then it changes to the relative gravity once thru, your literally just tossing a hoolahoop on the cube, and what sposed to go thru pops out of the other hoolahoop
@tarrute
@tarrute 4 жыл бұрын
Or what about if the platform the box was on is moving relative the portal speed, but the portal isn’t moving this time. It would shoot out, right?
@FTreba
@FTreba 3 жыл бұрын
In the game, GLaDOS explicitly points out "how the momentum is changed [when going through the portal], or more precisely how it is not" in a situation where portals are perpendicular to each other. I find that difficult to interpret in any way other than "B", that is, momentum is maintained, but frame of reference is shifted (and rotated) from one portal to the other
@tanaypandey1771
@tanaypandey1771 3 жыл бұрын
true , all these terms are relative and we can only determine in one frame possible , thats how our physical world works and portals are (as of now LOL) not possible . It doesn't satisfy space-time laws we have .
@noskillpureandy
@noskillpureandy 3 жыл бұрын
If you take a piece of cardboard and put a hole through it and drop it onto a ball, the ball doesn't go flying out the other end. I think portals are like a hole in that cardboard, but the cardboard has no width and the ends can be anywhere. That would make A be the correct answer.
@Guinea.Pig-Gaming
@Guinea.Pig-Gaming 3 жыл бұрын
@@noskillpureandy Yeah, but relative to the cardboard hole, the ball *is* flying out the other end, so option A would no longer work.
@lazykirby57
@lazykirby57 3 жыл бұрын
@@Guinea.Pig-Gaming so if for some unexplainable reason, if a hula hoop drops around me at lets say 20 mph and I jump through it while its still falling, then I should gain enough energy to jump much higher and much faster then normal.
@Guinea.Pig-Gaming
@Guinea.Pig-Gaming 3 жыл бұрын
LazyKirby57 Not relative to you, but relative to the hula hoop.
@zombathinlostleghackercat5233
@zombathinlostleghackercat5233 26 күн бұрын
It plops because the object does not have momentum. It would work as a visual truck, where the object quickly appears, but does not have velocity. Then, gravity will still take effect, and it will slide down the metal platform thought the portal, and fall on the floor as if it were set there normally.
@zombathinlostleghackercat5233
@zombathinlostleghackercat5233 26 күн бұрын
All though, the wall thing is interesting. But portal is portal, and I don't really see things not going through the portal since that's what it does.
@infectio88
@infectio88 Жыл бұрын
Portals act like a door between 2 different spatial locations, it was stated at some point... So imagine an open door falling around you. Case A : Nothing happens as you pass through and you can walk over it. Case B : You're very confused as you realize you've been catapulted through the air at the same speed the door was falling even though it didn't touch you at all so any transfer of energy should be impossible.
@shedinjask
@shedinjask Жыл бұрын
you wouldnt be catapulted in case b. by staying still, you are already moving up relative to the exit portal because it's moving down relative to you. so either case works here
@LineOfThy
@LineOfThy Жыл бұрын
the two ends of the door are moving at the same speed, so this analogy doesn't work
@EmperorZ19
@EmperorZ19 8 ай бұрын
Consider this. What happens while the portal is falling onto you? Either your head is rushing upwards through space to make room for the rest of your body as it emerges from the portal (and has thus gained speed and momentum), or your head emerges from the out-portal with no speed, as does every other part of your body, thus reducing your body to a motionless puddle that's all trying to occupy the same space. There's no physics model in which you'd emerge from the out-portal both intact and with no momentum.
@infectio88
@infectio88 8 ай бұрын
If a regular doorframe falls around you, do you get magicaly sent to space or turn into a puddle on the spot ? I think the way you look at physics here is a bit wrong if those are the only outcomes you can think of. You can't generate Kinetic energy out of nothing, if nothing touches you to transfer any form of energy you're not moving.
@EmperorZ19
@EmperorZ19 8 ай бұрын
@@infectio88 A portal is not a regular doorframe. The key difference here is that both ends of a door frame are always moving at the same speed, which is not the case with the portals in this scenario.
@lzmc9707
@lzmc9707 4 жыл бұрын
Answer to the bonus question: If the portals were like 3D printers, the cube would come out slanted.
@cubicengineering4715
@cubicengineering4715 4 жыл бұрын
Oooo I like your thinking! Although if the speed is measured relative to the moving portal then while the part of the portal that prints is moving the object is also moving just the same, lining it back up again.
@Mr_Chaotic_Neutral
@Mr_Chaotic_Neutral 4 жыл бұрын
2+1D printers. 3s dont exist according to valve.
@connorbagwell4465
@connorbagwell4465 4 жыл бұрын
If the portals were like 3d printers, you wouldnt be able to see through them like in the game
@Haaris.Qureshi
@Haaris.Qureshi 4 жыл бұрын
‘Depends if you think like a programmer or a physicist’ But when you program video games you have to think like both 😭😭😭
@dfaehab
@dfaehab 4 жыл бұрын
Haaris Qureshi ....isn‘t this another paradox?
@Xezian
@Xezian 4 жыл бұрын
Not really only if you want to have realistic physics which you don’t always necessarily do
@MakotoIchinose
@MakotoIchinose 4 жыл бұрын
Ehhhhh not exactly. Unless you're programming Algodoo, which is arguably a quite accurate 2D physics simulator out there (and used by academics somewhere), you're not putting real life physics equations as is in video games. Even with advanced engines like Bullet, Unreal Engine (and PhysX), or GTA V's RAGE, the physics in 3D game engine can defy real life physics, even if the code got the concept right and believable enough to percieve by our logic outside speedrunning or uncommon situations. Besides, putting real life physics equations as it is in a game physics engine can ruin a game's fun and charm or even the gameplay itself. And performance wise, it's not good either to do those equation in 16 ms or less.
@bhanuvardhan
@bhanuvardhan 4 жыл бұрын
@@Xezian not really. Even if you don't use real time physics, the game itself runs on a set of rules you as a programmer input and it has to stay consistent and you have to chart your own "imaginary" physics from scratch
@bruh1704
@bruh1704 4 жыл бұрын
Bhanu Vardhan yes but programming a new set of rules is a lot easier than programming an existence that isn’t even possible yet. Physicist don’t even have the proof of concept that a portal can exist except for theories and equations, this is infinitely harder than programming a game to say when X enters A send X to B with equal momentum.
@juleksz.5785
@juleksz.5785 2 ай бұрын
Imo it's option A, unmoving object will still remain stationary at the exit. Reasoning : portal is not a phisical thing, it's hole in fabric of reality, it doesn't affect object in any mean other than make it reapear elsewhere, so the only difference portal's speed would inflict upon object is that it reapeared faster, it didn't moved, it just begin to be in a new place. Regarding example from 3:00, I find it hard to explain without image why I disagree with it, but I'll try my best : A stationary object would reapear layer by layer, as you shown, but they wouldn't be squished, they would emerge out, but right after they would do it completely, they would stop. Object wouldn't have kinetic energy or velocity, movement would illusin made by rest of universe shifting to make space for it. Imagine flying ball that has 0 velocity, it just is hanging in a place. If you would throw hoola-hop thrue it it wouldn't make ball faster. Honestly, this ridle is less about logic and phisicsand more about how you understand a portal, in my reasoning why I disagree with 3.00 i explained it in a way that makes stationary portal both being and being not in motion, in example from 4:00 there are several ways cube could go out, diognally beign one of them.
@ImAbdel2
@ImAbdel2 3 ай бұрын
I think the solution to the last puzzle would be the cube come out diagonally. The way I thought about it is with replacing the cube with a pole. If you put a pole into a stationary portal that connects to another stationary portal and move the pole along the axis parallel to the portals it will move on both sides. Now imagine if you put the pole in at one far end of the moving portal, that end of the pole would emerge out of the far end of the stationary portal, and if you imagine that the pole is the correct length that its end would enter the portal in the time it takes for the portal to move its own length. that would result in the end of the pole entering the moving portal and exiting the stationary one at the opposite end of the portal than when in entered, giving both vertical and horizontal movement which means that a pole would exit diagonally, and everything should work the same way with a cube just over less length making it less noticeable
@AllUsernamesTaken
@AllUsernamesTaken 4 жыл бұрын
"THIS. SENTENCE. IS. FALSE! don't think about it don't think about it" That's the true Portal Paradox
@alphathealpha
@alphathealpha 4 жыл бұрын
Ehhh, true. I'll go true.
@AllUsernamesTaken
@AllUsernamesTaken 4 жыл бұрын
It's a paradox you moron, there is no answer!!
@yusuf_kizilkaya
@yusuf_kizilkaya 4 жыл бұрын
* confused frankenturret noises *
@petofiarkwright3236
@petofiarkwright3236 4 жыл бұрын
Yes!
@user-tt6uf2um5y
@user-tt6uf2um5y 4 жыл бұрын
OMG YESSSSS
@yahia2601
@yahia2601 4 жыл бұрын
Who feels like he wants to go and play portal again after watching this video
@trianglesqrt2576
@trianglesqrt2576 4 жыл бұрын
been a while might as well
@PydraxAlpta
@PydraxAlpta 4 жыл бұрын
I feel like I should play it for the first time!
@firefish111
@firefish111 4 жыл бұрын
@@PydraxAlpta me too
@Alex.Francisco
@Alex.Francisco 4 жыл бұрын
@@PydraxAlpta It's 90% off in the summer Steam sale right now.
@thinkpasta8829
@thinkpasta8829 4 жыл бұрын
YES
@streettako
@streettako 10 ай бұрын
This smooshed my brain into another dimension.
@GaryIV
@GaryIV 8 ай бұрын
Imagine a flat surface with 2 portals connecting one side to the other, this would basically simulate a flat surface with a big hole in it. If you agree that a cube "crushed" by this portal surface would remain unchanged, in the same way it would if "crushed" by a surface with a big hole on it, then you simply have to agree that the cube's velocity is relative to both portals and have to accept scenario B.
@jaypee9575
@jaypee9575 4 ай бұрын
I'm not sure what you mean by "crushed". A cube travels through a portal or through a hole. Please elaborate.
@dagucka
@dagucka 4 жыл бұрын
Don't look at it like a portal, but like a hole in a wall with the possibility of changed gravity in the other room.
@ndfan2007
@ndfan2007 4 жыл бұрын
This guy gets it
@RemedieX
@RemedieX 4 жыл бұрын
@Gooey Prickles Sounds like you're overanalyzing it a bit. The way the portals function in the game is essentially like a hole and you can even put objects mid way in them. Applying real life laws to game logic is not wrong though and I'm sure you'd be right if it were real life circumstances because I won't deny that physics and motion aren't my forté, but game logic wise... It's just a hole and option A was the more reasonable explanation for the way the way portals function here. Though, real life circumstances are probably option B, if not something similar.
@alyx8815
@alyx8815 4 жыл бұрын
I get both sides but listen to this. Say that a door that transports you to another one is dropped on you and you go through, but gravity forces you to go back through. since the portal is there you go back through but you ganed no energy so it doesn't push you out. You will get stuck between them
@alyx8815
@alyx8815 4 жыл бұрын
@Gooey Prickles that is why I compare it to a magic door and you would get stuck
@alyx8815
@alyx8815 4 жыл бұрын
@@RemedieX I get what you are trying to say but it is wrong. Option b would have to have force applied to the cube in order to whoosh. But since the only force is the smasher which isn't affecting the cube it would just go through because the "portal" has no mass and doesn't realy have anything to push
@Kalmaro4152
@Kalmaro4152 4 жыл бұрын
Items are locally measured to the environment. As GLaDOS explains in the game, "Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out"
@leonardusl5141
@leonardusl5141 4 жыл бұрын
I don't see any reason why that would imply that speeds are measured relative to the environment, rather than relative to the portal.
@israelRaizer
@israelRaizer 4 жыл бұрын
Non sequitur. "Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out" does not mean it's measured to the environment.
@lyanreehan
@lyanreehan 4 жыл бұрын
So that would explain that in the HL/Portal universe that there are quantum tunnels but the portal gun shoots teleportation data
@digitalunity
@digitalunity 4 жыл бұрын
@@leonardusl5141 speedy THING goes in though. This implies for the item to go out at a velocity, IT must move.a stationary item would therefore plop out with example A.
@outofthisworldmovies5886
@outofthisworldmovies5886 4 жыл бұрын
@@digitalunity A is impossible. By the time the portal fully covers the box the box is not fully out of portal number 2. then it is in two places at once. The velocity of the box is depending on how fast it went through the portal. The box went through the portal at the speed the portal was moving therefore emerges at the speed of the portal.
@canthyria7729
@canthyria7729 Жыл бұрын
The thing that makes me cross my arms and say "A" is: how does the cube change from still to moving without making contact with anything? For it to fly out the other side of the portal, something would need to give it energy. The moving platform doesn't touch it, the platform it's sitting on isn't moving, then would it be the portal? Since it perfectly conserves momentum, (aside from changing direction) it shouldn't add or subtract any energy, right? What clinches it for me is shifting my thinking about what the portal does. It's not actually moving the cube, it's shifting where the cube is. Yes, a fast-moving portal will cause a cube to appear out the other side quickly, but that doesn't mean the cube is moving quickly, just that the portal's plane of "being somewhere else" is passing over it quickly. It quickly changes from gravity pulling it in one direction to gravity pulling it in the other direction. Also, the moving platform's energy dissipates into the stationary platform.
@Vernoncore
@Vernoncore Жыл бұрын
I would assume that it would plop out, and not fly out, because imagine the portal as a ring/hoola hoop, it just has a distance between the entrance and exit, a box that has a hoola hoop slammed down around it DOES NOT send the box flying up, it stays there, without momentum, therefor, in should be the same scenario if there were portals to do it with.
@cjthenarhwalking1378
@cjthenarhwalking1378 4 ай бұрын
But here is the problem with your example. If the cube does only retains its moment and none of the portals then it shouldn't be able to go through the portal in the first place. In order for it to go through the portal at all it needs some momentum for the first particles to move out of the way otherwise they would just be teleported into each other. And for your example with the hoola hoop both sides are moving at the same speed, while portal one would be stationary. The two possibilities would be it would have momentum relative to the entry portal and would be sent flying or it has momentum relative to the exit portal in which case you would have two stationary objects coming in contact which is impossible so the portal acts like a wall.
@kami3989
@kami3989 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, but consider this: *PERPENDICULAR UNIVERSES*
@alexanderm5728
@alexanderm5728 4 жыл бұрын
"Now, you're probably going to wonder what I'll need all this speed for. After all, I do build up speed for 12 hours. But to answer that, we need to talk about *PERPENDICULAR UNIVERSES."*
@marcuskoseckshorts
@marcuskoseckshorts 4 жыл бұрын
You've broken my mind. Thank you sir
@signaturereverie
@signaturereverie 4 жыл бұрын
oh no this is beyond references
@WAMTAT
@WAMTAT 4 жыл бұрын
Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out.
@happyh0ur888
@happyh0ur888 4 жыл бұрын
Nothing speedy is going in, so it's A I assume.
@black1blade74
@black1blade74 4 жыл бұрын
@@happyh0ur888 it's speedy relative to the portal. Running into the wall at 1m/s is the same as the wall being chucked at you at 1 m/s, in the walls reference frame.
@happyh0ur888
@happyh0ur888 4 жыл бұрын
@@black1blade74 Lol nope. Not quite.
@hioeo
@hioeo 4 жыл бұрын
@@black1blade74 Relative to which portal? You can't specify that Blue is the end all be all to the relativity paradox when orange clearly also exists. And even besides that, Blue is moving 1600 km/hr in relation to space around it.
@kylecain86
@kylecain86 4 жыл бұрын
Thanks GLaDOS
@archdiangelo7930
@archdiangelo7930 Жыл бұрын
I'm gonna comment this before watching the video so that any conclusions there don't influence my initial conclusion: Considering the portals are basically just the shortening of a gap between two places (like if a tunnel were squished into a door), I think of it like this: since the orange portal is moving quickly towards a solid surface, it means that the object on the surface (the cube) will pass through the portal quickly, but since the cube doesn't have any momentum itself, it just plops out the other end after the gravity changes. Imagine the cube is attached to the floor, and when the gravity changes from the orange portal pushing over it, it becomes detached from the floor and plops out. It's not actually attached to the floor of course but that's, I think, a good way of visualizing it since it achieves the same result
@Gottaculat
@Gottaculat Жыл бұрын
Speed is indeed relative. If two cars moving at 60 mph collide head-on, the resulting impact is as if a car moving at 120 mph hit a stationary car. That said, any object colliding with a portal inherits the speed of the object relative to the portal. This would include angle of attack speed, so to answer your question at the end, an object dropped into a portal moving side to side would come out the other portal at an angle and at a velocity greater than the acceleration of gravity would dictate, as the velocity of the portal would be added to the velocity of the accelerating object. Also, the whole speed is relative thing is why I firmly believe the speed of light is NOT the universal speed limit. Case in point, place two lasers facing each other. Turn them on. The light relative to us is capped at the speed of light (C), but the photons from the opposing beams approach each other at 2*C. Now, take those lasers, and point them in exact opposite directions. The photons are now still C compared to us, but they are moving away from each other at 2*C yet again. Now, imagine you accelerate the laser emitter to C relative to us, and then turn it on facing in the direction of travel. The photons relative to the emitter are moving at C, but relative to us, the photons are moving at 2*C. Finally, let's accelerate both laser emitters to C, but in opposite directions from us (point of origin). Both emitters are pointing towards the direction of their respective travel. Turn them both on. This is where it gets even more interesting. Now, relative to us, the emitters are moving at C, and their photons are moving at 2*C, and the emitters relative to each other are moving at 2*C, but the photons are now moving away from each other at 4*C. Best part is, I don't have a college degree, never took a physics class (wasn't required to graduate high school), and I drive for a living. Yet I have never heard anyone give me a convincing reason as to why the speed of light can't be broken. FTL happens all the time, countless times every day. I see it happen every day at work as cars approach me with headlights on. The photons emitted from my head lights relative to the photons emitted from their headlights are approaching each other SIGNIFICANTLY faster than C. Funny how time doesn't slow down just because two cars are passing each other. If it did, I'd be late to my pickups all the time. Maybe I'm just obsessed with light. "Light" was actually the first word I spoke as a baby. It's always fascinated me, as does speed and physics in general. One can learn a lot through independent study and just by observing the world around them.
@mdcoulson
@mdcoulson Жыл бұрын
You don't even need two lasers facing each other to construct your scenario. Imagine two spaceships traveling towards each other at 0.75c and now you have two objects "approaching each other at 1.5c". The problem with this scenario isn't that any single object is traveling at 1.5c, in fact we defined both objects as traveling at 0.75c. The "universal speed limit" means objects cannot locally travel faster than c. What object exactly is traveling at 1.5c in this scenario? The space between two objects?? Same situation if the spaceships were traveling away from each other. You also ask us to consider the rest frame of a photon. Surely, when phrased this way, you now see the paradox? We can't consider a reference frame of an object that is both at rest and traveling at c. These considerations are mostly amounting to non-physical scenarios. You're essentially imagining scenarios that relativity deems impossible and then trying to apply relativity to them. You can't eat your cake and deny its existence too.
@siggyincr7447
@siggyincr7447 4 жыл бұрын
There is another option. Both portals are spatially linked to each other and if one moves so must the other. That way if one moves causing an object to pass through it, the other moves as well with the object exiting it while maintaining it's stationary property.
@ThelagKingStrikes
@ThelagKingStrikes 4 жыл бұрын
Makes sense.
@GIRGHGH
@GIRGHGH 4 жыл бұрын
The issue then is that since portals can only be placed on a surface, the exit portal would have to move in towards the wall and the object would appear fused inside the wall.
@ince55ant
@ince55ant 4 жыл бұрын
@@GIRGHGH Or the original moving portal will just spew out a huge tube of ground/wall/whatever
@GIRGHGH
@GIRGHGH 4 жыл бұрын
Then the issue is that the wall can't move either.
@Tanath
@Tanath 4 жыл бұрын
That's just the case where both are moving - but not relative to each other.
@martinconrad9260
@martinconrad9260 4 жыл бұрын
Too many people use the word "paradox" when what they're talking about is a "conundrum" …
@unclecreepy7025
@unclecreepy7025 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this comment. I finally decided to watch this video because I had never heard of the “portal paradox”. Then I was like, where is the paradox?
@framedkraken7403
@framedkraken7403 4 жыл бұрын
They don't even solve the conundrum , just giving wrong answers.
@scalpingsnake
@scalpingsnake 4 жыл бұрын
Paradox gets more clicks tbf
@martinconrad9260
@martinconrad9260 4 жыл бұрын
@@scalpingsnake That would be a sad commentary on a channel that purports to set people's thinking straight about complex topics....
@scalpingsnake
@scalpingsnake 4 жыл бұрын
@@martinconrad9260 I prefer to blame KZfaq. KZfaq make it necessary for clickbait in order to get the views you 'deserve'. Of course there are also the videos that don't deserve them and clickbait purely to trick people into watching and maximise views I am referring to the fact that respectable channels also do this because otherwise they simply won't get the views they probably should get.
@jeremyb8679
@jeremyb8679 Жыл бұрын
I believe you need to look at it from the state of the exiting portal. If the exiting portal is stationary then the object gains the momentum difference of the object and the entering portal. If the exiting portal is moving at a faster rate than the entering portal then the object will follow the exiting portals momentum minus the momentum the object enters the entering portal.
@yottylaboratories
@yottylaboratories 5 ай бұрын
Have you seen the Mythbusters episode where they fire a ball out of a tube at 30mph while on a truck moving at 30mph? The ball appears to remain stationary. Now imagine a cube floating in the air, and two portals are back to back so, they act as if they're not there (as soon as it goes into one portal, it's coming out the other, like the portals aren't there). Now imagine swiping the two portals at the floating cube. The cube would appear to stay in place, which to me, would indicate it's coming out the second portal at the same relative speed it's entering the first portal at, like the ball exiting the tube at 30mph on a moving truck. This is option B, which is against my initial guess of option A.
@prich0382
@prich0382 4 жыл бұрын
Shoots out the portal at an angle, again it's relative speed so it's equivalent to it travelling at a angle towards the portal
@jantemili
@jantemili 4 жыл бұрын
damn i want this as a real level to play, pretty sure it won't work with the engine or something tho
@reddragon3132
@reddragon3132 4 жыл бұрын
Or equally, goes straight up if we're considering portals to work using option A
@thenirow5843
@thenirow5843 4 жыл бұрын
not really, because the other end of the portal is not moving also the portal has to interact with the object in some way and also had to deaccelarate due to the conversion of energy and impulse. Also your relative speed argument works against you, because if the cube shoots out at an angle you are changing the relative speed. Before it was moving downwards and "sideways" relative to the orange portal and afterwards it would move "sideways" and up relative to the blue portal. You can not just change the frame of reference, when looking at relative speed once you picked one you have to work with it.
@diabl2master
@diabl2master 4 жыл бұрын
@@jantemili I really think it could be made to work.
@MisterJokestar
@MisterJokestar 4 жыл бұрын
But what if it is As hypothesis... It would go straight up but the cube would be morphed as each "slice" of cube will be more off set as the entering portal moves. ... I still like B more but just thinking of A is still interesting
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