Moana Could've Saved 2D Animation!
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Did you know that Moana could’ve been a 2D animated film? It’s true! Early into production there was a debate around whether Moana should be animated using the popular 3D techniques of the time or whether they should continue the legacy of hand drawn animation that the studio had pioneered. But this debate didn’t just affect Moana. The decision to create this story in CGI led to the complete abandonment of traditional animation at Disney, and today I want to explain how that happened.
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ABOUT ME
I'm Isaac Carlson, a creator based in Orlando, Florida, and ever since I can remember I’ve loved Disney. My fondest childhood memories come from visiting Walt Disney World with my family. I grew up loving Spider-Man, Star Wars, Pixar, and the classic animated films from Disney. The stories, characters, and worlds I adored as a child eventually inspired me to create videos of my own here on KZfaq, and it changed my life. On this channel, I explore the characters and worlds that ignite the child within all of us! My goal is to create a community built on wonder, positivity, and optimism where passionate fans can unite to celebrate the magic of animated films. Here, we believe dreams can come true.
Have a magical day! #disney #animation #history #animationhistory #moana
@DanGamingFan2846 16 күн бұрын
I can only imagine how beautiful this film would've been in 2D. It's such a shame that studios, let alone the one that pioneered the art, refuse to give fully 2D films a chance.
@Bulbasaur617 16 күн бұрын
Or give 2d films a go again like back in the old days.
@bravestraven4650 16 күн бұрын
I still don’t realize what their problem is with thinking 2d can’t be successful. If I got the chance to talk to the people that prevent 2d from coming back. Man do I have words to give them.
@vanessasandoval96 16 күн бұрын
I wish Disney could’ve still make more 2D movies
@bondservant4jesus 15 күн бұрын
I didn’t know they wanted to be 2D. Too bad there isn’t 2D any more. It had such personality to it in the drawings.
@neonoky 15 күн бұрын
They should just do both 2D and 3D/CGI films so everyone can see the beauty of 2D movies
@bad-girl-coventhe-owl-club1119 16 күн бұрын
We don’t talk enough about how beautifully animated Princess and the Frog actually is. It's the last and best Disney’s 2D animation has ever been.
@vanessasandoval96 16 күн бұрын
And also Ariel beginning was the last 2D animation movie of every sequel
@BrianWanke 16 күн бұрын
Ahh yes! I love that movie.
@vincenthoule5643 15 күн бұрын
Winnie the pooh was the last 2d animated movie.
@quincythecreaten3703 15 күн бұрын
@@vincenthoule5643 you are correct sir.
@user-fx7mq9yl3p 15 күн бұрын
The low box office kills 2d movies, after princess and the frog, no one dares to do full - hand drawing movies.
@ashtonhashbrown6155 16 күн бұрын
I imagine 2D Moana would've resembled Lilo and Stitch a lot.
@biancab.9733 15 күн бұрын
Thought so too
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
That would've been cool to see.
@kidsonic4056 13 күн бұрын
More like,that would've been perfect for them to continue the Lilo and Stitch series. Maybe season 3 continuation and no I don't mean the Stitch Anime with Yuna and Ai,because nobody liked both those shows,and they're not canon. Alot of fans were upset that they replaced Lilo. I mean,we wantmore adventures with Lilo and Stitch. Maybe make spinoff tv series with Mertle Edmonds or a Spinoff tv series with those hula girls Yuki,Elena,and Teresa like have them leave Mertle for good and they be friends with Lilo.
@Chuyandknuckles 10 күн бұрын
Same
@francis7336 10 күн бұрын
All Europe-based Disney films resemble each other too though. I don't think it would have mattered much
@yildizofyiti7628 16 күн бұрын
Disney: You cannot make profitable 2D animation anymore. Miyazaki: Guess I have to get out of retirement... again.
@user-fx7mq9yl3p 15 күн бұрын
Miyazaki is too old, can't carry anime. Anime nowadays are still 2d but trash quality
@AdorianDelmore 15 күн бұрын
@@user-fx7mq9yl3p not every new anime is bad, some are good, but yes many are not great.
@NicholasMoreau 14 күн бұрын
Studio Ghibli's labour practices aren't exactly shining, so while I agree 2D can be profitable, the numbers there aren't necessarily something to replicate.
@annien.1727 14 күн бұрын
2D animation will return to Disney once I get to work there as a storyboard artist.
@user-fx7mq9yl3p 14 күн бұрын
@@annien.1727 name one 2d animation in 2020s that has high grossing except from ghibli
@Jonathan_Collins 16 күн бұрын
It's funny that I grew up on 2D animation thanks to Disney, but they've left it behind completely. In Japan, 2D is flourishing brilliantly. The best use of CG in anime shows or films is typically barely noticeable or minimally used.
@vanessasandoval96 16 күн бұрын
I wish Disney could’ve make more 2D animation I mean I wish they could’ve make a 4th sequel of TLM would be Melody Journey
@scoutart1508 15 күн бұрын
@@vanessasandoval96 woah woah, not exactly counting on THOSE of the mostly unnnecessary sequels, even though mostly were either optional or worth following, in this case we are talking about DISNEY ANIMATION STUDIOS
@Taydar 13 күн бұрын
I wouldn't use Japan as a positive example, the working conditions are terrible.
@GoodwillWright 13 күн бұрын
@@Taydar Depends who you work for. It's no walk in the park, but it's obvious that some studios just love what they do. Same thing with mangakas. Most of the time, it's a thankless job where you'd be lucky to sell even 100 copies, but people still do it. Considering that a lot of these animators were spending months producing personal projects for nothing, spending more months to at least make a living is something a bit better. Should they be paid more? Absolutely, if the money exists.
@UltimatePerfection 13 күн бұрын
Yeah, it irks me especially since you can basically throw a shader over 3D art to make it look 2D (as countless Blender tutorials prove it), it still would be cheaper than doing everything in 2D, and it would look much better, not to mention some props or background elements that are ever seen from only one angle could be literally drawn and pasted into the scene as flat texture planes.
@deshawnedwards6412 16 күн бұрын
You could say that about Encanto, Raya, and especially Wish. Disney should attempt to return back to 2D animations or at least try doing more 2D film. Nothing wrong about doing both 2D and 3D films at the same time. Once Upon a Studio prove that they can.
@Dora-xi5ob 15 күн бұрын
Encanto and Raya still look beautiful…
@gaf407 15 күн бұрын
With Moana I could see why 3d added a lot of life to the water animation, but I fully believe Encanto would have been way more amazing in 2D
@TsWade2 14 күн бұрын
I guess Disney is too ashamed of doing hand drawn animated feature films.
@nicksorenson940 13 күн бұрын
@@Dora-xi5ob I've stopped seeing the "beauty" in hyper realistic looking 3D animated movies for over a decade now with our studios' aggressive pushing of it all the time only turning me off from this specific look of animation altogether, especially when it's been at the expense of keeping hand-drawn animation held back. It's why even though I would have always liked to have seen an animated Mario movie from us one day I still hate having to look at one the way that Illumination made theirs. Meanwhile I've been starting to be more won over by other recent animated films like TMNT: Mutant Mayhem for what it's been doing with its own CG animation as far as giving it a stronger stylistic look that brings it closer to 2D and away from all the realism, and with how turned off I've been of the standard CG movies now I have considered these more experimental films a much needed breath of fresh air at least.
@yay29823 13 күн бұрын
No, Encanto and Raya look perfect in 3D. They are beautiful. I agree about Wish though
@alexmouse5758 16 күн бұрын
You know what is the hardest part? The person who publicly said 2d animation had too many limitations wasn't a random out-of-touch executive at Disney. It was Jennifer Lee herself, the current head of the Walt Disney Animation Studios
@IsaacCarlson 16 күн бұрын
Jennifer Lee has never worked on a 2D animated film. She’s a writer turned director and executive. It’s kind of tragic to hear that quote
@TsWade2 14 күн бұрын
@@IsaacCarlsonI guess she’s too ashamed of hand drawn animation.
@icecreamhero2375 14 күн бұрын
Its not limited at all if anything 2D animation is much easier than 3D. In 2D if you need a building you can just draw a building. In 3d you need to model it, you need to texture it and you need all these extra steps.
@citrus3603 14 күн бұрын
It's just excuses. Disney as of recent has spent all their time focusing on 3D and neglecting 2D and as a result they've become stubborn and don't want to admit that what they did wasn't very smart. I'm not gonna pretend that anime doesn't have its own problems but this is exactly why anime has been overtaking western animation for a while now and is continuing to do so. At least the creators there have more respect for animation and treat it as the art form it really is. Now Moana objectively does look better in 3D, but it's quite embarrassing for Disney to look down on 2D when that was WHAT MADE THEM and anime is proving 2D isn't dead and may actually be returning in popularity.
@alexmouse5758 14 күн бұрын
@@citrus3603 To be honest, I think this is beyond Disney. Almost no big, mainstream studio in the west still do 2d animated films. It's not just Disney that stopped. Big studios in the West invest in 3d rather than on 2d animation because they see 3d animated films as being more profitable. And judging by the evidence available, they are kind right. If you pick the 10 biggest animated box office, they are all 3d animated films. They didn't make a mistake, at least, in the business side. I still miss 2d animation despite this.
@aquaarietta 14 күн бұрын
2D animation is only dead in America. Sad how Disney animation inspired 2D animators around the world, and now those other animators have left Disney in the dust and showed Disney how much they messed up.
@alfredovitenteiii3612 12 күн бұрын
2D animation isn’t dead in America. There are US based studios that still specialize in it, they just aren’t doing theatrical features.
@joaopereira817 14 күн бұрын
I dunno what goes in the mind of these Hollywood executives to have this grudge for 2D in these last decades The Boy and the Heron defeated them in this year's Oscars, proving that this technique is timeless and it's still going strong
@nicksorenson940 13 күн бұрын
Exactly, because that's what makes this so infuriating for people like myself who love traditional 2D animation and want to see more of it from our industry. It's all a petty, misguided grudge that they refuse to let go of completely. People never understand why I refuse to want to give our studios any money, support, or attention for most of the 3D movies they continue putting out. It's because I recognize the grudge behind them and care too much about 2D animation's own future to want to have further part in supporting it for these studios.
@alexmouse5758 13 күн бұрын
I truly doubt any other 2d film would win the Oscar if it wasn't a Ghibli movie.
@aliliz7204 12 күн бұрын
@alexmouse5758 I don't see how. Ghibli isn't even really that well known outside of people who were introduced to him / know anime. He's extremely popular in Japan and anime fans in the usa. But people outside of that niche don't really know ghibli. They've probably heard or seen a character of his but didn't actually watch the movies
@alexmouse5758 12 күн бұрын
@@aliliz7204 I disagree with you. First, anime isn't that much of a niche topic anymore. Anime is pretty mainstream now, and Miyazaki's work is a mainstream brand. Miyazaki's work has an immense footprint in modern pop culture. I truly can't find anyone who haven't heard of him or that haven't watched at least one Ghibli movie. It's by no means unknown. The output of Studio Ghibli is so known and nostalgic that it can break away with the Disney/Pixar monopoly at the Oscars. It can win because for many critics that grew up with these movies they are on the same level as Disney and Pixar. Heck, some people still think Studio Ghibli is owned by Disney. I truly doubt that the Academy would give the same chance with any other 2d animation without the names Ghibli or Miyazaki behind.
@aliliz7204 12 күн бұрын
@alexmouse5758 I for one know tons of people who don't know studio ghibli and this is a area with a ton of anime fans. I suppose word just got around your area more. But even tho my teachers dressed up as studio ghibli characters. Nobody really knew them. I'm not saying it's not widely known. Studio ghibli is HUGE. But disney is arguably much bigger and disney could still make a Oscar's 2d film if they tried imo. And I'm well aware anime is more mainstream. But my point is, there's much more disney fans then studio ghibli fans. Studio ghiblis network says plenty . While 24 billion is a lot, it still doesn't compare to other mainstream studios who surpass 150 billion. Disney's with a whopping 200 bil,
@user-xb3md7su8f 16 күн бұрын
I miss hand drawn animated films. 😔
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
Don't we all😢
@user-xb3md7su8f 14 күн бұрын
@@dreamguardian8320 yes, yes we do.
@Handymations 15 күн бұрын
2D Animation needs to make a comeback
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
You said it.
@andrewchung2940 13 күн бұрын
The failure of recent 3D animated films like Strange World and Wish should be telling Disney that 3D is no longer a guarantee of profitability, yet they still will stick with the whole 2D cannot be profitable mantra. It's just tragic, really.
@alexmouse5758 13 күн бұрын
3d is still super profitable. The only 3d movies bombing right now are from Disney.
@SoulHydron 10 күн бұрын
I don't think the main problem with the films was the medium in this case
@shyguy1597 10 күн бұрын
@@SoulHydron they aren't saying that CGI is what caused those movies to be bad (we all know that they're just awful stories), they're saying that disney believes they are too big to fail. disney usually thinks 3D films guarantee big money, but they don't. good stories do.
@reesrodriguez4146 16 күн бұрын
I hope that one day will see 2d movies in theaters again not just by Disney but by other studios and have the good old days back
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
Well, the Boy and the Heron, a 2D hand-drawn anime won an Oscar after so many years, so maybe it's a sign of hope for 2D animation.
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
If only Don Bluth had his youth back and was back in business, he would be able to bring back 2D animation big time.
@goodial 13 күн бұрын
we are still getting 2d movies in theaters. Mostly from Japan, but there's also others like the oscar-nominated Robot Dreams (coming soon to US theaters), movies by Cartoon Saloon or the documentary Flee from 2021. They are not necessarily the big mainstream movies, but there are still some getting released.
@dreamguardian8320 13 күн бұрын
@@goodial Cartoon Saloon is doing a good job with there movies, they've done great with Wolfwalkers so far.
@dreamguardian8320 13 күн бұрын
@@goodial The Boy and the Heron won an Oscar for best animated movie, so maybe there's still hope for 2D animation yet.
@icecreamhero2375 14 күн бұрын
What if they had a separate 2D studio that only made 2D movies. That way they wouldn't have to go back and forth between the 2.
@jazzy9983 13 күн бұрын
I might be the only person here who thinks Moana was one of the only Disney movies that seriously would have looked worse in 2D rather than 3D. I love 2D animation but Moana’s visuals are S tier and hand drawn would not have been able to capture that. I constantly use Moana as an example of when 3D is really good and at its full potential as a medium for creating art. Her hair, the water, the colors, the lighting, the monsters and the fights would all have ended up watered down. Like remember the dance scene in beauty and the beast? They needed 3D animation to do that, they just wouldn’t have been able to make it look as good hand drawn. It’s the same thing with Moana. If you want an example of 3D that definitely would have worked better in 2D that would be tangled (and more lol)
@GachaLOTTIExox 12 күн бұрын
Omg someone else with my opinion, moana was peak, it was so peak that it doesn’t look much different from Encanto lol
@tweettweetyweety 12 күн бұрын
@@GachaLOTTIExox What?? That’s such a random comparison.
@rexibhazoboa7097 11 күн бұрын
@@GachaLOTTIExox Encanto didnt look as challenging to make. First off, it was made years after Moana already paved the way for it. Plus, Encanto did not have the complexity Moana had when it comes to water and fight scenes.
@SoulHydron 10 күн бұрын
The water animation in Moana is especially beautiful. 2D may have pros but I don't think the water would have been the same.
@isaiahwilliams2642 16 күн бұрын
While I've lost some of my faith in Disney animation, especially with the immense amount of sequels crammed into their current pipeline. I have hope that another studio will take that leap of faith again and make 2D animation a viable mainstream medium again. After two decades of CGI artists pretty much perfecting the craft, and as a result many of the films aesthetics becoming too samey, audiences are hungering for more stylization and unique art forms, as evident by the success of "Spiderverse," "The Bad Guys," and "Puss in Boots: The Last Wish." And even "The Boy and the Heron" Winning the Oscar for best animated feature is telling how the market is shifting back in favor of 2D. Hopefully that and potentially Genndy Tartakovsky's "Fixed" get the ball rolling and gets Disney back on the 2D movie train that they built back in 1937.
@Dora-xi5ob 15 күн бұрын
The way I think of it is that 3D can look stale because of the potential for 3D. Movies like Encanto, Last Wish, Toy Story 4 are great examples examples of showing how great cgi can look, but not every 3D movie is gonna make the best use of lighting, hair texture, etc., so those end up looking stale in comparison, and that’s ultimately what makes 3D animation age worse than 2D animation. In short, 3D has more potential, but the average 2D animation probably looks better than the average 3D animation
@biancab.9733 15 күн бұрын
I feel like wish would have been the perfect opportunity for disney to bring back 2d in some form. I really hope they change their minds as long as the 2d legends from the 90s and before are still around
@alfredovitenteiii3612 12 күн бұрын
Mark Henn recently retired, party due to the lack of 2d animation work at Disney. Rumors are that Eric Goldberg will soon retire as well.
@InChristIDelight 2 күн бұрын
AGREEE wish looks drab and samey in the 3d style. 2d would’ve saved it
@crystallightwings8520 16 күн бұрын
I kinda wish they would atleast give 2D a try again for future movie
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
I wish that too.
@DanielAnimationproductions 16 күн бұрын
I have 100% confidence that one day there will come a time when 2D animation will be seen as hip, cool and new, just like other classic things like record players, etc.
@ganymedehedgehog371 10 күн бұрын
It is. Anime is treasured because it’s 2d animation. Lots of anime push 2d animation beyond what Disney can ever accomplish with 3D.
@InChristIDelight 2 күн бұрын
Totally
@gerawallstar3487 14 күн бұрын
I found out that this was originally going to have a Paperman style using 2D/3D hybrid. IMO, Disney should've used this style for their modern 3D films like Frozen and this film. Yeah it wouldn't be the same as it was using 2D but it would've been a better compromise for the company to get with the times but also never abandon what they have used as a foundation for the company using 2D.
@vincenthoule5643 15 күн бұрын
Wish was really disappointing. This movie would've been so much better with the original concept and 2d. I blame jennifer lee for make wish so generic.
@themelancholyofgay3543 13 күн бұрын
Disney forgets that Anime is 2D, but seeing the reality of things in japan's industry, Disney wouldn't risk it
@josephbrown6906 16 күн бұрын
The 100th anniversary of Mickey Mouse is coming up in 2028. That would be a perfect opportunity for a hand-drawn Mickey Mouse film with him, Minnie, Donald, Daisy, Goofy, Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, Pete, Julius the Cat, and even an animated Alice from the Alice Comedies.
@alfredovitenteiii3612 12 күн бұрын
Legendary Disney animator, Mark Henn, recently retired, largely due to the lack of 2d work. Disney also let go of all but 2 of the new hires that were brought in to help with the 2d sequences in the “Once Upon a Studio” short. Since features take 3-4 years to make, a 2d feature is unlikely.
@michaelmonthey5974 15 күн бұрын
Disney should do 2D animation again because it’s the art form that built the company. Even though the 2D movies that didn’t do well financially at first have since become cult classics. Heck, their PIXAR movies have been losing their appeal in recent years.
@nicksorenson940 13 күн бұрын
Good, cause all of this probably never would have happened if it wasn't for Pixar getting involved anyway.
@bravestraven4650 16 күн бұрын
Wow, I never realized that Moana could have been a 2d movie. I mean of course I have been somewhat annoyed at the obvious loss of faith in 2d projects that had been going on at Disney. But now I am more annoyed at the company for always very deliberately rejecting 2d, and firing so many animators. Don’t get me wrong, CGI does look good and takes a lot of work. But it should not be considered a guarantee for success. They should know 2d can be just as successful, and now so many animators have lost opportunities to be able to make 2d movies like Disney used to do. That is why I’m glad stuff like Once Upon a Studio exists to show that traditional animation still has somewhat of a place at Disney. By letting 2d characters remain 2d. And actually putting work into it. You can even look at the behind the scenes. It looks so cool. But they should really hire more traditional animators though. And Wish for bringing back the look of 2d into an actual movie. It looked like a CGI watercolor painting. It looked lovely for a film meant to have classic and modern aspects. Although it is not really traditional animation, it does show that they cared enough to give Wish that look, and not back out into fully 3d animation for once. While I do think the mixed animation fits better for something meant to honor all 100 years. It is still sort of saddening to think if stuff like this is the closest they will ever get to bringing 2d back into a Disney movie. And now Disney is going back to making sequels instead of original movies. Not much wrong with sequels at face value, unless you look at how many they plan to do. And they will all be 3d like almost always. I do not think that the state of things when it comes to 2d/traditional animation should stay this way at Disney. And I hope someday that Disney as a company realizes they shouldn’t keep backing down from making a fully 2d movie, and have the guts to do it.
@melindawolfUS 13 күн бұрын
Disney barely marketed treasure planet, at all. The theory is that executives saw how much more expensive 2d was to make vs 3d and sabotaged the success of that film via marketing to "prove a point".
@alfredovitenteiii3612 12 күн бұрын
Disney execs just believed that 3d was where the market was headed, and they were pretty much right. Plus, the logistics of running two studios with full time staff, one for 2d and the other for 3d, would be a scheduling and staffing nightmare. Budgets for their computer animated features have stayed relatively high, so saving money on productions wasn’t the reason for the change.
@majestichotdog1195 12 күн бұрын
it sounds awfully believable
@Queen_Audrey1803 16 күн бұрын
i hope 2D returns its such a beautiful and creative art that no one seems to apreciate anymore
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
I want 2D animation to return too. I'm sick n tired of 3D and live action remakes.
@Queen_Audrey1803 14 күн бұрын
@@dreamguardian8320 im fine with 3D its these crappy live actions and not all the live actions but most them but theyve done so may lately its goten real annoying
@pablo-zn1mg 11 күн бұрын
I feel like Disney could take some inspiration from the Spiderverse saga and blend both mediums to create something that propels animation forward, while remaining uniquely Disney.
@Drace90 16 күн бұрын
I love Moana the way it is. But since Disney loves to do remakes, why not animated ones? I would enjoy a 2D Moana remake WAY more than a live-action one.
@worldofartloveartwork1472 15 күн бұрын
Well if Disney is going to be this way for a while, I personally wish there was another studio that can keep these animators and let them do what they're good at. At least until something happens in Disney. Like Don Bluth, who use to draw for Disney, he tried to make his own company once. The thing about animators, when you see their drawings, something about them tells you it's that animator! Like if it's a drawing from Glen Keane, Andreas Deja or even Chuck Jones! He was the first animator that inspired me to draw my own doodles. Whether it's drawn grand, scary, dramatically or silly or beautifully, you can tell it's their work. And counting how far they went from one draft of a movie or short to another.
@scoutart1508 15 күн бұрын
Good thing that in my case, i have essentially a Disney hand drawn passion project that combines potentially the background artstyle that they used tradigitally in Wish and my passion project is mainly/essentially inspired/based on a japanese Disneysea attraction featuring Menken music, which is the heart and backbone of that intention
@Alex-ng6hc 15 күн бұрын
I really miss hand drawn animation. I get that computer animation is easier and allows more freedom with camera movement, but it doesn't have that artistic charm and freedom that can only be achieved with pencils and paper. Bring back hand drawn animation
@NicholasMoreau 14 күн бұрын
Thank you for interviewing Nik Ranieri. So many channels of every kind pass on the opportunity to interview people, a (relatively, compared to the pre-web cam era) simple act that elevates the video into the next level.
@SnickerDoodleBug05 15 күн бұрын
I would have loved a water color style moana
@SodaDjinn 13 күн бұрын
What this leaves out is how former 2D animators turned to 3D animation throughout the years and had to really push for Disney to even consider 3D animations early on. By the time the 2D department was disbanded, most of the animation staff already worked in 3D because that's what they wanted to do.
@areakastudios6704 13 күн бұрын
To be honest, as gorgeous as Moana would have been in 2D, I think what we ended up getting was pretty good, too. The story wasn't really for me, but man, that water looks delicious.
@ignatiusklepto5136 16 күн бұрын
Its ironic that choosing to make it 2D failed to really make it standout amidst the ton of CG features. It was successful and yet I think it would still have an even bigger influence if it were 2d
@TadpoleArtz 11 күн бұрын
I genuinely feel that Klause (2019) is proof that 2D is just as capable and beautiful as 3D….
@alicejensen927 3 күн бұрын
When I was about 13 or 12 I read an article about Moana in its beginning production and I remember being so stoked when I saw Disney was finally releasing another 2D movie, but when it came out I was devastated and disappointed. I was 14 when it came out.
@timothylyons1529 16 күн бұрын
I think the movie would be great may it be made into 3D or 2D
@shadowmarauder6033 10 күн бұрын
This is another reason many indie projects do well, since many of them are hand-drawn and have such unique and /or nostalgic design.
@blop_the_blob 15 күн бұрын
This has become one of my new favorite videos you have done Isaac! Thank you for this video and the research you did for it! I hope 2d animation returns one day. I have always been a fan of 2d animated movies and it is sad they are not around anymore.
@tayloredwards4968 16 күн бұрын
I'm going to be honest as much as I love 2D animation. I think this film fits a lot better in to cgi. If the water really pops better.
@KyleRDent 15 күн бұрын
Yeah, the Ocean is such an amazing character and it would be harder to get across its little quirks in 2D.
@gemlife1329 15 күн бұрын
Moana is one of their better looking films. Really beautiful
@ElizabethJones-pv3sj 14 күн бұрын
A mix of 3d and 2d content may be a good way to get the best of both. The Prince of Egypt really effectively supplements 2d animation with 3d for the ocean.
@andrewchung2940 13 күн бұрын
Or they could have done something like Treasure Planet (another Ron and Jon movie), with 2D characters within a 3D environment. Plus, I'm pretty sure stylized hand drawn would have been able to bring Ocean to life in a uniquely beautiful way. Have you seen Pinocchio or Little Mermaid, or maybe even Ponyo from Studio Ghibli?
@2shadowgamer2 12 күн бұрын
Just look at the water in films like the Prince of Egypt or Ponyo and try telling me again that 2d water can't be done.
@Dora-xi5ob 15 күн бұрын
The way I think of it is that 3D can look stale because of the potential for 3D. Movies like Encanto, Last Wish, Toy Story 4 are great examples examples of showing how great cgi can look, but not every 3D movie is gonna make the best use of lighting, hair texture, etc., so those end up looking stale in comparison, and that’s ultimately what makes 3D animation age worse than 2D animation. In short, 3D has more potential, but the average 2D animation probably looks better than the average 3D animation
@Benjamin_Kraft 12 күн бұрын
I think the primary reason why 2d animation has been eschewed for 3d animation is something that isn't discussed a lot. This is gonna be a longer comment, but I think I have to lay it out step by step. The process of 3d animation is more iterative and less linear. For 2d animation, every single frame is a unique drawing, as is every background. For 3d, you make assets like characters, props and environments, which require lots more work to set up than a single frame of 2d animation, but which can much easier be iterated and adjusted upon. Essentially, 3d gives a creator much more freedom in changing things even pretty far down the line of production. You can switch camera angles, adjust animation and poses, switch out assets if needed etc all individually without needing to adjust the rest of the shot, whilst for 2d you have to redo almost everything from scratch when you do anything but minor tweaks (you can switch out background and such, and crop, but I think you get my point). That's not to say there isn't a lot of freedom in 2d - there's greater artistic freedom in the sense that you just have to be very good at drawing and animating to do virtually anything, whilst 3d requires much more technical knowledge (along with artistic knowledge) and specializations to achieve all of the diverse effects we see in movies. But now I'm gonna get to the point, the reason I think the industry switched to mostly 3d is that the process of 3d animation allows studio heads to make more decisions, and come with them later and later in production, than in 2d animation. 2d animation isn't necessarily more costly than 2d, but redoing things is way costlier than redoing in 3d. Studio execs also get to pretend that they know what makes movies good and try to catch onto what they see as monetarily successful trends and put them in their movies. I think this is the primary reason we saw an industrial shift away from 2d. This discussion often gets bogged down which type of animation is the best, and that cgi is bad, usually, which is a dumb opinion. This aspect of the issue isn't discussed enough, and I also think it explain why movies nowadays rarely feel like they were made by auteurs, but rather by business committees, which result in boring and unoriginal stories.
@wigburgflossapientiae2308 16 күн бұрын
I feel robbed now 😢
@nicksorenson940 13 күн бұрын
As we all should.
@kareyonnadavidson6661 16 күн бұрын
I miss 2d animated movie
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
Don't we all😢
@MarianaGarciaGrijalva 10 күн бұрын
I was always under the impression that Moana was going to be 2D. I was surprised -but then again, not surprised- when they announced it and turned out it was 3D.
@Eric_1991 14 күн бұрын
I miss 2D
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
Don't we all😢
@YosefReborn 11 күн бұрын
I thini it could have been just as beautiful in 2d if the mixed some of the 3d elements or panting like water too mixed with water so beautoful
@maxsoop 11 күн бұрын
9:01 ever since i was a kid 2d animation has always been a passion of mine. well now ive lost the passion for it due to little to no good media giving me inspiration to do so anymore. I even went into a animation school where they told me they are going to teach 2d and 3d. only halfway through the semester ive realized that 2d will only be discussed for like 2 weeks and the rest of it is 3d. soemthing i dont have the hand or the passion for. im sad i wasnt born earlyer, maybe i could have lived out my dream.
@AlphaProto 13 күн бұрын
Growing up I always wanted to be an animator. I still became an animator, just not on the scale I had imagined. As long as their are skilled artist with a love of hand drawn animation. We need Disney to do it for us. We still have the old films to look at.
@tottallyok 13 күн бұрын
The part in the video that really got me was Nik talking about how talented 2D animators of today are missing out on opportunities to show their talents on major productions simply due to management bias :( Happy that small and independent 2D studios still exist at least.
@NovaVortex193 11 күн бұрын
If Moana was hand-drawn I'm guessing it would've looked similar to Lilo and stitch
@IndigoDragoness 3 күн бұрын
I've said for years how I do not hate CGI animation, I'm just really tired of it. I really wish that not just Disney, but other studios, would return to traditional hand-drawn 2D animation. I think it's a bit ironic how in the 90's, CGI was a really big deal but nowadays, it's pretty much taken over for it's cheaper and easier.
@carolinedisalvatore9768 16 күн бұрын
Y’all know about the upcoming Looney Tunes film The Day the Earth blew up? That’s actually gonna be 2D animated. I guarantee that if that movie bombs people are still gonna complain about “Oh why don’t they make 2D animated films anymore??!!” Well why don’t you support them when they actually come out??!!
@IsaacCarlson 16 күн бұрын
See I don’t think it’s just the medium though. Like it has to be a great story WITH a great medium. People only have so much time and money. I think it’s fair they go see the stories that interest them. Looney Tunes is recognizable to me, but I don’t personally go out of my way to watch films and shows with them in it.
@katleido 16 күн бұрын
srsly, so many indie studios/smaller studios/foreign studios create gorgeous, well-written 2D films every year yet people proclaim 2D is dead just because Disney/Dreamworks/some other mainstream studio aren’t doing them anymore
@IsaacCarlson 16 күн бұрын
@@katleido that is true, but most of those films are not widely available for consumption in theaters and many won’t be prominently showcased on streamers either. They are not being consumed by the greater public in the west like Disney and DreamWorks movies are.
@katleido 16 күн бұрын
@@IsaacCarlson oh I do agree with that, this discourse around 2D vs. 3D is still kind of annoying though, if people cared enough about the survival of 2D animated films I'd hope they'd support at least some of these smaller films instead of just proclaiming no one does hand-drawn animation anymore.
@nicksorenson940 13 күн бұрын
@@katleido It's because they (or rather the short-sighted executives who have to be running these studios) want to be telling us that it's dead because *they* want it to be, when we should be the ones wanting to tell *them* why they're wrong about 2D and why they should stop wanting to keep it from us themselves. This is the whole reason why I finally had enough of this sh*t around the time Disney put out Frozen and decided to boycott most of our studios' mainstream 3D animated movies entirely to make that statement to them, however small it would be on my own. Then when we got Mary Poppins Returns from Disney in 2018 I was more than happy to go see in theaters because of them allowing 2D animation to be in it. If these studios want my support from now on it will only be when they are wanting us to have anything outside of their own agenda of pushing 3D computer animation and telling the masses to consume it and *only* it.
@user-fj2lv5uk5c Күн бұрын
Hey Isaac carlson I have a suggestion. There's this show called action pack and I think it's a knockoff of PJ masks they look so similar hope you could use this for a video. Your awesome!
@ephemeraIl 13 күн бұрын
I think both 2d and 3d are great, it’s just a matter of right place right time. Depends on the film itself if it should be 2d or 3d. I think they should have just let the two co-exist just as it used to be
@ultimatealdo1922 11 күн бұрын
I heard in 2019 the creators of frozen said they’ll bring back 2D animation for future projects
@magnetoonproductions9541 14 күн бұрын
It was so close to bringing back 2D to the big screen.
@Onthegoart7790 5 күн бұрын
I remember this event like it was yesterday. I was in my second year of college, going to school to be an 2D animator, then my friend tells me that Disney had fired 2000 animators. That was it. I literally had no more drive to draw. My ultimate goal was shot. Thus, till this day, I'm still struggling like 20 years later. Oh well, great video.
@Z3N1TY0 12 күн бұрын
1:07 That title has me thinking of the Toontown game lol
@kirarose434 15 күн бұрын
I am sooooo sad about this
@connormarchand6302 16 күн бұрын
Personally I not as bothered by the debate of 2D vs 3D, I like both 😊
@IsaacCarlson 16 күн бұрын
I like both too! I just wish both got used!
@connormarchand6302 16 күн бұрын
@@IsaacCarlson not trying to be a prouduct 🔌 but I got an app on my tablet that lets you animate 2D like the good old days U should look up procreate dreams when U get a chance
@PixelaGames2000 15 күн бұрын
Same, i appreciate all forms of animation.
@tottallyok 13 күн бұрын
I like both and I want to SEE both. Don’t see as many major studio 2D films anymore, that’s what makes people sad and resentful towards the other medium :,/
@nicksorenson940 13 күн бұрын
@@tottallyok Because that other medium has been twisted into one big corporate agenda for our studios to use as far as wanting traditional 2D animated movies replaced by it, and some of us have not been allowing those movies to blind us from seeing that for ourselves. What Pixar might have wanted to give to our industry with innocent intentions stopped being so innocent the day it started threatening the future of our 2D animation.
@primus0348 11 күн бұрын
Its Really sad and interesting to hear what Moana Could've been, as a 3D Modeler and Someday Animator who still loves traditional 2D animations from Hanna Barbera, Cartoon network, and somewhat Disney, as much as I am not a Disney fan Moana was a pretty good film, and honestly it would've been interesting to see that 2D Version of the film, its sad 2D was Phased out For 3D with Animators Losing their Jobs, even if 3D had made Spectacular Scenes. It would've been More interesting to see those scenes in 2D or even see more Films in that style too, and now in 2024 AI is on the Rise, and it feels like Both 2D and 3D are going to be on their Deathbed soon, and me personally i feel like the Animator who worked on Princess and the frog in a way, and to say my Issue Similar to Nik Ranieri's words in my case, if i was born 5 - 6 years and managed to kick off my animation Career somewhat earlier, i would've been making some cool stuff, but i was born to late, and on time to see AI take so many jobs even my future job (Giving me Anxiety for the past 2 months now), and unlike her i may not even go into the Animation industry feeling somewhat punched in the face from Silicon Valley or whatever Corpo Folks are called. I Still have hope animation survives, but I'm going to have to stick to reality and see that Regaless what happens, AI is Dooming my Career, but maybe one day people can accept and Appreciate Traditional and Digital Work alongside, and have Traditional or Digital 2D Art make a Resurgence in a Massive Scale once again.
@carminecdinoproductions 16 күн бұрын
I want some 2D animated TV series based on Frozen and Moana in the same style as Tangled: The Series!
@Eddierath 13 күн бұрын
Some one needs to independently create an UNDENIABLE hand drawn and story telling masterpiece with the marketing power to back it up.
@rock9737 13 күн бұрын
Already have. It’s just not mainstream
@lunacat4221 6 күн бұрын
I feel like the water scenes could have been achievable if combined with both 2d and 3d. I mean look at the prince of Egypt and the parting of the Red Sea. That scene is incredible!
@danielsantiagourtado3430 16 күн бұрын
Love your videos isaac❤❤❤❤
@falcoskywolf 16 күн бұрын
I wish the studio understood just how much fans love 2D. The continued love for their animated shows is ample evidence of that. And while they're so gung-ho about live action remakes (or live-based CG like Lion King,) and while many of them have been profitable, they have been totally ignoring the cries for New Stories, 2D, and more.
@thetheorizermoore7476 16 күн бұрын
Do this for httyd how al l species and populations of dragons returned to the hidden world and lived under toothlesses rule
@jessehorn6180 16 күн бұрын
What where they thinking? They could halve brought back Traditional animation.
@dreamguardian8320 14 күн бұрын
Agreed.
@adekay_ella 13 күн бұрын
I getting really nervous now watching all these videos about people saying they want 2D animation back because I want open my own studio when I get older and have enough experience and ability to do animation. I love both 2D and 3D animation, and plan to do both. But as someone who has been fascinated by movies like Frozen and Moana(my two favorite animated films ever) I am scared I might lean towards 3D . And looking at what my supposed audience may be into , I wonder if it be okay to try please the crowd or just do what I want. I just dislike Japanese anime so I am not going into that , I prefer 2D animation styles like that of Princess and the Frog, Spirit , Prince of Egypt , Mulan, The Magic School bus Rides Again. I just want stay consistent. I also know that a good storytelling, nice dialogue and a great plot is also what makes a good and admirable. Thank God for my creative talents in Art , Writing, Music. And I have very imaginative mind so that helps me whole lot. While I am learning both 2D and 3D,I am going to learn creative writing and study music and colors.
@elenafarichildfair858 15 күн бұрын
Bring back 2D animation again ❤❤❤u all are amazing continue and bring messages and meanings back into your special movies
@garveyneal1672 16 күн бұрын
Can you do what Moana 2 would be about?
@Moonlitwatersofaqua 13 күн бұрын
I really wish when discussions of hand drawn 2d animation came up, people actually talked about why it went out of use. Some of you act like Shrek and Pixar made cgi movies trendy and animation studios chased a trend and killed hand drawn animation. Hand drawn animation went by the wayside because its expensive, time consuming, and extremely difficult to use. You could call that greedy, but changing formats is just sound business choices. Not every hand drawn animated project looked like Beauty and the Beast. Disney Animation studios had the recourses to make that movie look good. Not everything did. Cartoons of the time routinely reused animation to cut down on costs, recycled models, and made their characters more toony so that they could cut production time and cost. by the 2000s most all western cartoons started experimenting with programs like flash and cgi to make the process of animation easier and faster. 2d animation still exists among cartoons shows in the west. Most of it isn't hand drawn anymore. The expenses are a problem. ink for hand drawn animation costs a lot more than it used to and because it takes longer to do, you have to pay your animators for that extended time. Movies are already ballooning in production cost which is translating into a loss. It doesn't make any sense to invest in an outdated medium that's so expensive when you aren't certain that a product is going to be successful. Especially since, like it or not, movies are not carried by the beauty of their animation or special effects. They are carried by the writing. People keep pointing to Japan as proof that hand drawn 2d animation can be profitable. Which is actually laughable. Hand drawn 2d animation in Japan sticks around because of draconian labor conditions. The joke there is that you make more money working for Mcdonalds than you do being an animator. This isn't an aspirational model. And even in Japan, many complicated scenes will be done in cgi and will routinely cut corners. Not every anime looks like demon slayer. I hate to break it to you. Many look awful. The even more time consuming work of making the in betweens will be outsourced to countries with even more draconian labor standards. Its sweatshop labor but for animation. And its something the West does too. The Little Mermaid famously, almost didn't have bubbles, because the animation of the bubbles got outsourced to China during a time of political upheaval. This isn't to say that exploitation doesn't exist in other mediums. It does. But there's a reason hand drawn 2d animation is dead in the west and is going to stay dead regardless of how many terminally online netizens beg for it to come back. There's no reason for it to come back, other than for novelty's sake.
@alishanightshade3270 11 күн бұрын
Disney should make some piece with full 2D. See how Japanese anime works. No one think their 2D animations are outdated, uninteresting. I don’t think the success of Frozen and Moana are because they are 3D animations. I’ve saw 2D animation tests on Encanto and it looks absolutely great. 2D animations has some specialty that 3D animation can’t do. Like smooth out line in Mulan. Pure black with a bit of light in the headless horseman. I really hope they can make a full hand draw 2D animation in the future. Wish is not it.
@sentientfetus3894 15 күн бұрын
Why did Charles Maunze stop anyone else from catching the bird . Anyone proving the species's existence would vindicate him
@reillykuhn5692 16 күн бұрын
I agree 100%. Traditional animation is a true art and deserves respect and praise for all the work and effort that's been put into it over the years! I just hope enough people will realize that and 2D animation can make a comeback someday...
@user-pw4pm3vk4g 11 күн бұрын
I had absolutely NO IDEA Moana was meant to be 2D, and by the clips you showed in this video, it could very well have been the next Princess and the Frog! It would still be a classic, regardless of medium. I actually didn't really notice the era where Disney was balancing between hand-drawn animation and CGI, but that sounds like a beautiful vision. I hope Disney can consider bringing that era back.
@Stodey-uf4sr 6 күн бұрын
Next life of master chicken
@smileydog5941 10 күн бұрын
It’ll never happen again after Princess and the Frog, sadly
@paulimbacana 13 күн бұрын
let me tell you, this is all on the audience. truth be told, people still look more for animation when it's CGI, having very little exceptions such as ghibli's movies. i don't think moana would've saved 2D animation even if it were full 2D, we're already two-feet in the point of no return. it's a shame tho.
@Slater2113 11 күн бұрын
I don’t think a 2d movie in the Disney aesthetic would save western animation. There “in-house” style needs more variation
@kolooart 11 күн бұрын
Both Frozen and Moana would've been stunning in 2D
@youdontneedtoreadthis 11 күн бұрын
If disney are willing to make the stupid choice to leave a vacant space in animation, someone else is going to fill it. It doesn't have to be disney forever. Also, I haven't seen Moana but Frozen should definitely have been 2D. It would have suited it better I think.
@alfredovitenteiii3612 11 күн бұрын
SPA Studios and Cartoon Saloon are the two studios still doing 2d features. They just don’t have the Disney money to release movies every year. The vast majority of animation studios don’t, even ones like Studio Ghibli.
@Taydar 13 күн бұрын
Sorry Nick Raniari but I have already been told that I was born too late. So then I gad to give up on everything and retrain on a completely different career. Never plan for your future Isaac, it can be taken away from you through no fault of your own.
@user-oy5ck1fs4b 12 күн бұрын
Hello Issac Carlson Please Do Professor Ratigan's Full Story: Parents, How He Became A Criminal & Why He Hates Basil Of Baker Street From Benny Mufabiro. 😢🙏🙏🙏
@kairi4640 13 күн бұрын
Another moment in history where we ended up on the fallen timeline path. 🙃
@somethingcreative32 11 күн бұрын
Wish could have been better with 2d. Specifically hand drawn.
@Futurebound_jpg 6 күн бұрын
I can’t imagine how much I would’ve loved it if they had done this instead of 3-D
@mattsipe8963 12 күн бұрын
I just wish it were easier for artists to organize and create their own groups and projects, without any corporate involvement. Money people are good at being dull and greedy, artists are good at everything else.
@danielsantiagourtado3430 16 күн бұрын
Can't wait For the sequel😊😊😊😊
@vanessasandoval96 16 күн бұрын
But you wish some sequels could’ve happened like TPATF 2 did r maybe TLM 4 Melody Journey
@mennaayman9689 3 күн бұрын
2D animator here and I'm sobbing while watching this video. 2D animation is and always will be my passion
@tawesssoabbox 13 күн бұрын
My guess is that once Disney runs out of things to turn in to live action... they will go back and make all the cgi movies as 2d animation....
@SikMagik24 11 күн бұрын
So you know how they have been redoing a lot of their older 2d animated films with real actors and cgi; well what if they did the same thing with the current 3d animated films and make them 2d in the future? Just a fun thought, but also maybe computers will really get 2d animation down sometime by then. It seems like computers never got really great at 2d animation. But overall I would love more hand animation, but it's too expensive for Disney apparently. 😢
@MortenBendiksen 11 күн бұрын
This is one of my favourites. Had it been hand drawn it would be the absolute favourite.
@ChickenDinner-dc5wf 16 күн бұрын
This is so cool! I have a question do you support furrys and therians? I’m asking all my favourite KZfaqrs
@yemakeiks.s 11 күн бұрын
i need disney to make another 2d animation movie cuz i'm pretty sure that it'll be a bomb, especially to people who have been following disney since their 2d animation days.
@SevereRaptor 12 күн бұрын
To be honest, I love Moana as 3d, but I think tangled should have been 2d.
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