Model A Ignition System 101

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Model A Ignition System 101

Рет қаралды 47,265

Jack Bahm

9 жыл бұрын

A description of the basic Model A Ignition circuit.

Пікірлер: 73

@BigTex347 3 жыл бұрын

From 7:57 - 8:16 is what I really needed to know. I just ordered the part from Mac's. Thank you!!

@fightzoid 4 жыл бұрын

Just tried to start my 31 for the first time the other day. It has sat for a couple years and if course no spark. This video will be a big help this coming weekend when i get back to it.

@JackBahmlll 4 жыл бұрын

Here is another video I just did. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j9pjYKmKy7GzmYE.html. If this does not work, just search for Model A ignition system demonstrated.

@larrywittrup9252 3 жыл бұрын

Nice presentation. One component you left out of the ignition circuit is the Ammeter which can be a useful tool in troubleshooting ignition problems. When the ignition switch is turned on, the Ammeter should deflect slightly to the left if the point happen to be closed.

@BigTex347 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the very informative video. I removed the original engine from my 1931 Model A truck (piston #1 cracked) and I replaced it with an engine from a 1928 Tudor. The last thing I have to do is replace the wire that goes from the ignition to the bottom of the distributor. Your video explained a lot - Thanks.

@JackBahmlll 3 жыл бұрын

Big Tex. Don’t screw it in too far. Just enough to make contact.

@BigTex347 3 жыл бұрын

@@JackBahmlll Question: This 1928 replacement engine was running in a show-winning car before I got it. It was removed from the Tudor and was in a guy's shop on an engine stand for about 3 months before I installed it in my 1931 Model A truck. Should I be concerned with checking the timing before I try to start it? Also, how will I know when I've reached "just enough?" Thanks

@JackBahmlll 3 жыл бұрын

@@BigTex347 It will start. 3 mo. is nothing. If it ran when it was put to bed, the timing is ok. Maybe half the threads you can see. Not tight. Let me know.

@BigTex347 3 жыл бұрын

@@JackBahmlll Hello Jack - I got the truck running for the first time this evening - Thanks for all your help. I called the guy that gave me the 1928 engine and asked just how long that engine sat on his shop floor before I got it. He said 5 years. I was under the impression it was more like 3 months. Non-the-less, it runs smooth and I couldn't be more happy with the way it turned out. I let the engine idled for about 15 minutes, revved up without a problem and so far it seems to be happy to be back in use! Thanks again for the information on the timing - so far it seems to be doing ok without any adjustment.

@BigTex347 3 жыл бұрын

@@JackBahmlll Hello Jack - First drive in my 1931 truck after the engine swap was yesterday. Thank you for helping me through the process! Mike

@Pwl47 9 жыл бұрын

Always good to get a refresher course. Thanks for posting this.

@Michael_Scott_Howard 9 жыл бұрын

Once more thank you for sharing your knowledge of Model A's

@georgemck5709 7 жыл бұрын

You have to remember that most T an A owners never had a car before .so Ford made it simple to fix.I had a fellow that was a good mechanic couldn't time the car .He was looking for something more complicated.I have owned my AR for 62 years and it still runs like new

@JackBahmlll 7 жыл бұрын

George McK and it will keep running good for another 62 yrs

@RobH416 2 жыл бұрын

Jack In your video the wire from starter is going to red wire driver side. In your other video with drawing you made the statement wire goes from starter to passenger side of coil. I'm confused and I do understand the purpose of the coil but my Tudor has starter to neg. on drivers side. Is that good? Also in your other video you mentioned test your horn and if good then fuse is good continue and check coil. My problem is I have 6 at both sides coil but horn doesn't work car won't start and batt full charge. Tested continuity at dist points open and good timing done. Key on points open with 6 both sides of coil. Where do I start? I have new switch, ammeter and dummy switch on the way.

@ellensolch3025 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for this! I'm a new car owner, just now having to make simple repairs. I am going to replace the ignition switch first (its stuck) and I'm wondering what the best switch is to buy for this? My car has the pop out switch on it. You put the key in, turn it to the right, the switch pops out when it gets to "ON". At least that is what it is supposed to do. Its stuck in and turning the key is hard. I tried PB Blaster, oil on the key, etc. Nothing budges it. So I'm going to replace it. Looks easy enough.

@JackBahmlll 3 жыл бұрын

It is easy. You can get another pop out is you want to keep it stock, but the lower cost switches Snyder's sells work fine and look like the pop out. good luck

@kcculp6430 5 жыл бұрын

Excellent video. Would have been helpful to explain the purpose of the condenser. Thanks!

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

All I will say about the condenser is: You have a higher probability of getting a bad new one, than a good one going bad.

@jamesalanpeacock9749 9 жыл бұрын

Mr Jack. We have a 1930 A truck in the shop with an on going issue. It come to us from two other shops. After 20 minutes of driving the timing goes nuts. So bad that after the backfires you wind up on the side of the road. After 15 minutes of cool down, you can go again. The wire under the distributor plate had a rub mark in it, so I replaced it today. New points, Cond, Coil, Plugs, Wires, mid and top dist cap. Using an ohm meter, can not find the wire inside the dist grounding anywhere (like I said, I replaced it). I am going to replace the condenser again because i was not one that put this one on it. I am open to any suggestions. Oh yea, the advance arm on the colum was backwards, in order to run it had to be all the way down. I reversed that when I set the timing.

@JackBahmlll 9 жыл бұрын

+James Alan Peacock The condenser change is good. There is a higher probability of getting a bad new one than the old one going bad. But---the Model A can cook them. I assume the plugs are not fouled. The timing can't change, unless your gears off the cam are shot. Hope you fixed it by now. I just returned from a 600 mile tour in north Michigan.

@jamesalanpeacock9749 9 жыл бұрын

+Jack Bahm I replied, just replied in the wrong place. please see above.

@jnielstrong1433 7 жыл бұрын

Jack, my 30 A coupe battery goes dead, sometimes as quickly as over night. The amp gage does not move when the ignition key is turn on. I don't know where to start. Could even be the starter switch. Or the key switch. I just put a new battery in and the car started right up. Next day, dead battery. What would suggest I do first to determine the problem?

@JackBahmlll 7 жыл бұрын

You have a short. With a charged battery, scratch the cable across the post and see if you see a spark. That;s a short. Chase it until there is no spark. Something is touching ground.

@XORBob 5 жыл бұрын

Hey Jack. Thanks for the videos. I am learning a lot. Can I ask you to do one on greasing/oiling your distributor & shaft? I know the Andrews book says to vasoline the distributor and I've heard to put a few drops of oil into the screw hole. However, it would be helpful to see how it's done. Thanks again

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

I am not a dist expert but that top bushing does starve from oil. Some of us have cross drilled the upper shaft above the bushing, then a vertical drilled hole from the screw hole to meet the cross drilled one, and a hole drilled in the screw lets you squirt a little oil in the hole under the rotor. If you get any wobble of your shaft, just replace the bushings. Easy job and done all the time. You can also buy all the parts you need. Keep a little vasoline on the cam surface.

@jamesalanpeacock9749 9 жыл бұрын

Mr Jack. it appears that #3 &#4 valves have no gap between valve stem and lifter. #3 cold 10 ths, and #4 under 5ths. From what I have read and know and the way it's acting. I think these valves are staying open once hot, then a little cool down and you can drive again. Sounds far fetched, but nothing else is making since. as for condenser, it has had 3 in 24 hours. none make a difference. .. I'm looking for someone to agree with me on this valve clearance issue. thank you sir, Alan

@jamesalanpeacock9749 9 жыл бұрын

when I say valves 3 & 4. I'm speaking of valves on cylinder 3 &4.

@jamesalanpeacock9749 9 жыл бұрын

600 mile tour. wow. now that's a ride. who long did it take?

@JackBahmlll 9 жыл бұрын

+James Alan Peacock We were gone three nites and four days. Good trip. The valve story sounds right, but why and how did it get like this? Did the valves stretch??? Got hot and lengthened??? Did it ever run good in this condition? Maybe someone built it this way and it has been bad ever since. Hope this is the case. The valves are way too tight. Let me know what you find. E mail me at virtualamodel@gmail.com.

@jacquespoirier9071 8 жыл бұрын

+James Alan Peacock probably that there is valve sinking in its seat, when the engine is cold, there is a sufficient clearance to keep the valve closing on the seat but when things heat up, the valve bottoms on the cam heel and not on its seat losing the cylinder power another possibility is that the interference between the adjuster bolt and the lifter body is not sufficient and the bolt turns in the lifter as the engine runs. I'll take a close look to the valve seat condition

@kcculp6430 5 жыл бұрын

With the key off there is 6 volts on both sides of the coil. However, with the key on there is still 6 volts on both sides of the coil. Does this mean that the "black wire" is grounded? Thanks!

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

That means that the points are open. When they close, that grounds one side of the coil. If your points are closed, then there is an open circuit on the way to the points. Stick with it.

@kcculp6430 5 жыл бұрын

I checked it with the points closed and had 6 volts on both sides of the coil. Any thoughts??? Thanks

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

When the points close, that grounds the circuit from the coil to the points. It means that the points are not touching ground or a wire broken on the way to the points.

@MarkBerg 5 жыл бұрын

*НА КАКОЙ УГОЛ В ГРАДУСАХ УВЕЛИЧИВАЕТСЯ ОПЕРЕЖЕНИЕ ВОСПЛАМЕНЕНИЯ ТОПЛИВНОЙ СМЕСИ, РУЧНОЙ РЕГУЛИРОВКОЙ ФОРД - А ???*

@dougtubergen8018 5 жыл бұрын

Help.....just got my 1931 Model A. Ran it into a shop for fluid changes and a tune up...hasn't run hardly since. takes awhile to start and when going down the road about 200 yards it start running rough. barley running after 1 mile around the block. I have set the timing and turned the rotor to #1 spark plug using the light bulb method. Still running rough hardly going 1 mile.

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

Doug Tubergen double check your timing. Get the pin in the dimple, turn key on, spark lever up, connect light to ground and point arm. Light should be off. Pull spark down about two notches and light should light. If it does not, your timing is not correct. Good luck.

@dougtubergen8018 5 жыл бұрын

@@JackBahmlll that is what i have done. multiple times. Where i had the work done ( 2 nd time ) they ran it for like 4 miles. I ran it home about 6 miles. Then after that doesn't always start right away and then runs rough. Thanks for the quick reply!! Are you in Michigan?

@dougtubergen8018 5 жыл бұрын

condensor going bad?? running the timing wrench around - the light goes on and off.

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

@@dougtubergen8018 Yes, I 'm between Detroit and Pontiac. Loosen your gas czp and listen for a hiss. It may not be venting. Go to blurb and look at my book. You don't have to buy it, you can see it on on review. Something in there might help. j

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

That was gas cap. The book is "Get a Horse". Blow back through the fuel line and see if that clears it up. j

@raylowmiller7038 6 жыл бұрын

COULD YOU DO A VIDEO ON HOW TO BLOW OUT A FUEL LINE. MY CAR WAS RUNNING GOOD AND I THINK I RAN OUT OF GAS AND MAY SUCKED DIRT INTO THE LINE.

@JackBahmlll 6 жыл бұрын

You should have the stand-up filter in your tank. Just disconnect the line from the carb and blow on it. That should clear it out.

@williamhthompson3502 6 жыл бұрын

I've timed the ignition several times. When I stop the engine and try to start again the ignition appears to be far too advanced and will not start. Can you point out where I am going wrong. Thank you

@JackBahmlll 6 жыл бұрын

My guess is that you are doing it wrong. If you get one of those new timing tools, you can't make a mistake. The common mistake is with the light. Find TDC, using the pin, hook up the test light to the point arm and ground, key on and spark lever full up, pull the spark lever down about two notches, and the light should come on. Some people set it to where the light goes off. Make sure. The timing won't change from running the engine. With the spark lever up, you should get a nice cackle, and then a little loaping with the lever down. Stick with it. jack

@snoopy5736 5 жыл бұрын

@@JackBahmlll what size fuse did you use between the starter post and power distribution block on the firewall ? I need to add a fuse somewhere in case I have shorting out.

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

Use a 20 there, but also add a 15 in the brake light switch circuit. Hard to get to if there is a short out on the road.

@hitchcock1960 8 жыл бұрын

Jack, when you say that the points close and that creates the ground, do you mean that the points actually touch or that they close by sending a spark across the gap?

@JackBahmlll 8 жыл бұрын

The points close and make a ground to the coil to build the field. They touch. When they open, the coil fires and the field collapses and off goes the high voltage to the plugs. Need more? jack

@hitchcock1960 8 жыл бұрын

+Jack Bahm. Perfect thanks Jack.

@handyallaround5776 5 жыл бұрын

where the problem begins in your explanation , in your other video , is you have a drawing of coile wire going into the plus side, instead of the center of the coil,, that is where you lost me , and probably many others,,,,,,the only reason its ''simple'' , is because you already understand it ,,,,honestly the way you , drew it out in the condenser video made it far harder than most applied calculus and algebra word problems,,,sorry but a very, very bad confusing drawing , but awesome that you take your time trying to help people,, , keep up the good work i , hope we all figure it out

@JackBahmlll 5 жыл бұрын

Sorry about that. The wire from the battery goes to the coil, which is just a wire wound around a core, it is continuous. When the other side of the coil is grounded, it energizes the coil. When that circuit is broken, the field in the coil collapses and fires high voltage to a plug. Now, you want all this to happen at the right time, so you run the grounding wire through the ignition switch so you can turn things off. Then that wire goes to the distributor and to the point arm. The cam makes the points close, ground, at the right time and the right plug fires. jack

@jimervin387 6 жыл бұрын

Jack, what does it mean when the test light lights up on both sides of the ignition coil, whether the key is on or off?

@JackBahmlll 6 жыл бұрын

When the key in on and the points are closed, there should be 6 volts on only one post of the coil. If not, it means that the points are not closing, they are dirty, or there is a broken wire some place. From the coil, to the ignition switch, back down to the dist., up through the lower plate through that little black wire, to the points. The points, when they close grounds that circuit, the coil is charged and when the points open, the coil fires. Trace it.

@jimervin387 6 жыл бұрын

Hi Jack. My further research has shown that I had a loose screw holding the point block screw. After tightening that and sanding the points, my test light still lit on the negative side of the coil with the points closed and the ignition switch on. I decided to try starting it anyhow and this time she started but was running rough and then stalled. I started it again and it didn't stall but was still rough. So it seems that there's still a problem with the points, isn't there? In order to save some time, I'll give you my phone number if you like. It's 1 604 420-3768.

@madogblue 8 жыл бұрын

Great video Jack. I left my key on in my 31 roadster overnight and was Suprized that the car seemed just fine the next day? I expected a dead battery or something?

@JackBahmlll 8 жыл бұрын

All that means is your points were open and there was no current draw. You were lucky.

@madogblue 8 жыл бұрын

+Jack Bahm I thought that might be it. If they were closed would the battery have drained and the points burnt?

@islandj39 6 жыл бұрын

Jack, what differences in the test will I see with a negatively grounded battery?

@JackBahmlll 6 жыл бұрын

The + and - will be reversed, but the results will be the same. Should be positive ground.

@islandj39 6 жыл бұрын

I have a '29 in my shop- the amp meter keeps frying, and the wiring doesn't match up with your diagram for the ignition circuit. The wire from the starter goes up to the ignition switch, and from there back to the coil. also, it's grounded negatively. I'm going to rewire per your diagram, how do you have the amp meter wired in? There are no original wires to the meter or switch, everything has been replaced by a po. With the key off, there is no power to either side of the coil. Key on, one side has power. When the car starter is cranked, I get a weak spark, but the car won't fire. After a few minutes of intermittent cranking with the key on, the amp meter starts smoking. So frustrating.

@islandj39 6 жыл бұрын

What do you think could be causing the amp meter to keep frying?

@JackBahmlll 3 жыл бұрын

Change that oil if you haven't, retorque the head bolts, lube the dist. cam with a little Vaseline, Have fun. j

@marcogram1216 4 жыл бұрын

7 folks still can't get it, even with an awesome cartoon type diagram.

@larrywittrup9252 4 жыл бұрын

Your second schematic shows the condenser connected prior to the ignition switch. It should be shown connected at the points. Also, the ammeter needs to be shown in the circuit between the starter and the coil. Here is an excellent link to everything: lesmodela.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/wiring-diagram.pdf

@eno9111 3 жыл бұрын

we forget one thing that pick up coil by it self is a magneto tehnicaly if you have a means to supres ore change that frequncy you can use that to ignite fuel ore other type of fuel basicaly all today ignition systems are a bade copy of the original "dc magneto" basicaly similates a dead short for a small period of time! look at makes and breaks ignition system they originaly used the amps not the volts to fire a engine! look at wikipedia the early systems how they work what dual ignition engines are,hot/cold runing engines,4stroke to 2stroke conversion and vice versa,multy grade fuel runing engines,normal engine/wacum engine how they work,closed system engine etc etc etc its more a question about reverse inginering the truth is there is no diference betwen disel and gasoline engines with small modifications hell you culd run on coal. in total a normal car engine is alredy a hybrid engine look at some of the war tehnology what peopel hade 100 years ago.good video Im only leting peopel by aware on some things that schools dont teach always the truth.

@BigTex347 3 жыл бұрын

Hello Jack - here is my 1931 Ford Model A with the original engine. Piston #1 blew up and thus, the 1928 donor engine swap this week. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/p8uVi7x5y7SRqI0.html

@JackBahmlll 3 жыл бұрын

Big text, that was great. What video software did Austin use. He’s a better than me.