Do you need help deciding which bike to purchase next? I offer a one-on-one bike consultation service through patreon. It's how I put food on the table for my family, and how I'm able to provide custom bike advice for my vieewrs. Become a patron today for access: sign up for the monthly bike consultation tier, and cancel at any time. Most people sign up for a month or two, and we work together to discuss their needs, riding style, etc. to narrow down the list of all the great hardtails out there. When they get the info they need and they no longer have any questions, they cancel. Become a patron today: patreon.com/hardtailparty. If my videos have saved you time or money, consider supporting this channel via Patreon. For as little as $5/month you can ensure I continue making unbiased content. Support individual content creators over garbage tv or sponsored content disguised as reviews.

I feel like hardtail party talks about a lot of stuff that big magazines and channels leave untouched, such as sizing procedere and what not. Stuff, that actually is of great importance, but just not as exciting.

I watched your video on new school riding with elbow forward and chin over stem- OMG, it made all the difference !!!!!!!!!

Other people have mentioned it, but you are the only channel covering technical stuff like the importance of positioning and how sizing has changed.

I like the content you are bringing to the channel, keep it coming bro

Crazy how a few cm can change the feel of the bike. I looked at the geo's for my two bikes and noticed that there was a 30mm difference in stack height which becomes noticeable on the lower stack bike on long rides. I'm learning a lot from your videos. Thanks!!

While I quarantine bike shop this information has been extremely helpful and insightful as I try to upgrade from my almost 20yr old hard tail to something newer and more modern.

The main issue I have with long / modern geo bikes is the increased reach means I have a reduced range of motion because my arms didn’t get any longer . Specifically I can’t push the front wheel as deep into throughs.

I like the channel, it’s a combination between weekend warrior riding type of riders and riders with children. Meaning riders with lives. It’s great 👍

I am 5'9" and my last frame had a 440mm reach and I used a 50mm stem. it felt HUGE and I could never get used to it after a year. It was actually painful and crash-prone no matter where I put the dropper post, the handlebar positions, and no matter how hard to worked to adapt my stance. I had two professional "fit" sessions with different shops and they made it worse by putting a longer stem on it. My current frame that replaced it has a much, much shorter reach and I use the same short stem. I fear that with the growing length of bikes these days I literally won't be able to buy another bike that fits my in the future. what's wrong with me?

Very good topic and something not covered enough in my opinion. I've returned to mountain biking last year after around 20 years either not riding or on skinny tyres. Although I've always kept an eye on what's going on in MTB I found the new geometry quite hard to figure out made worse by the fact that I seem to fall exactly between small and medium frame size on many manufacturers size charts. In the end I went medium but it took me a while to make up my mind and there never seemed to be much guidance on it. Oh and yes, it's an hardtail.

Fantastic info! Thanks Steve

I am 186 cm and I ride reach 470 on my enduro and DH bikes both and I love it. I also bought dirtjump bike to improve my jump technique and I found the longest one on the market with reach 440 which is really great to feel confident on that short type of bike....Also makes it easy to switch between DJ and endruo/DH bikes I can adjust myself in a minute.

Liked and subscribed. I am definitely going to learn from this channel.

So much good information...thanks!!

I loved listening to this! Thanks!!!

a gem of info, thanks!

Very helpful, thanks!

Brings back memories. I rode Trek and Gary Fisher back in the 80's and 90's. I rode smaller frames back then. "Felt" better since I rode the BMX type bikes. Got accustomed to throwing the bikes around on trails. Hard for me to ride some modern bikes cause it feels like I'm driving a tank. The Yeti SB165 is a good example. Super stable bike going downhill, but I just can't get comfortable on it cause it just feels too big.

Great coherent content.

Great subject! When I'm looking for a new bike I always create a geo chart so I can compare measurements like reach, stack and chainstay length. I compare them all to a bike I was really happy with, my '18 Stumpjumper which was an XL. I look for whatever size comes closest to that and then decide where to compromise if need be. Changes in stem length, bar rise, crank length etc... can make a size up or down work but you need to realize how different they will feel. For example, I just bought a Nukeproof Scout in XL based on the fact that it has a reach thats only 5mm longer that my Stumpjumper was but the bike felt pretty bad to me, almost unrideable because the stack was so much lower. I could barely lift the front end over logs. it felt like a straight up XC bike. I installed a set of 80mm rise, Deity Highside bars and it totally transformed the bike and I love it now! Bottom line is you need to know a few measurements that work best for you and the trails you ride most. Understanding the relationship between pedal, handlebar, axle and seat positions is key in setting up a bike to perform well. Looking forward to your full course!

Grea tinfo and Id love to hear more about it. I've ridden mostly old school bikes up untill recently and can forbsure tell a difference with the new geo. I hopped back on my 2015 bike and it felt so small... I cant imagine what my 2009/2004 would feel like now.

Great vid. I always recommend people look at standover height compared to their inseam to make sure they will be able to stand over the frame with ample space and then look at the reach measurement. Reach takes a person demoing a few bikes a few times and comparing different reaches in order find out what they like. But I like your rule of thumb that for more aggressive riding consider going longer reach and for more all day pedaling consider a shorter reach. I also recommend people look at the Effective Top Tube measurement because with steeper Seat Tube Angles and slacker Head Tube Angles and shorter stems, the seated riding positions on some bikes can feel small even though the bike’s wheelbase and reach might be on the longer side. This is something that I think people need to be aware of too. It’s actually one of the reasons I size up, because I don’t like the small cockpit feeling while seated. Finally, the seat post height is simply to determine if they should perhaps get a shorter or longer dropper for the people at the extremes in height- for most in the middle usually the stock sized dropper works well. I agree I hate the general size charts based on height, bc a lot of people (like myself) have either longer torso compared to legs or longer legs compared to torso, and this makes a huge difference in what size will be right for the person. Great vids that I think will help a lot of people. Keep up the good work. Btw- listening to the history lesson got me all nostalgic- man those 90s bikes were crap compared to what we have today but we rode the hell out of em and had fun anyway.

great info... I'm trying to find something budget and likely second hand that is a modern fit. very helpful video

Watching this gave me a flashback to getting sized for my ‘98 Trek 8000SL. The salesman did the 1-2” lift thing and that was that! Never mind the laid out 110mm stem ;)

Dropper post changed the game. Made DH style geo possible for trail bikes.

I'm 5ft 10 on a xl ragely marley aggressive bike for an aggressive size is what I'm gathering

I'm looking forward to watching your size guides as I do more research to replace my 12 year old specialized hardrock (26' wheel rim break). Currently looking at a giant fathom 29 as the 66° head tube is a little slacker (I a mix of flowy and steep trails here in Eastern Washington St with super steep a weekend away) I'm a little over 6'2 so I was looking at either a large or XL as I'm right between (I'm fairly new to mtb)

I just read an article about how reach numbers between different bikes can be missleading as well. That you have to look at the stack height as well. A bike with a higher stack and shorter reach can be very similar to a bike with longer reach/shorter stack depending on how many spacers you put under your bars and how much rise your bars have. It also touched on how geometry numbers for a hardtail should not be compared to geometry numbers of a full suspension since the numbers are static and on a full suspension you generally run more sag in the rear than the front making everything slacker when riding and opposite for hardtails.

Great content

I'm into motorcycles but want to get into bikes . Thanks for the info!

Thx for this video

Steve, thanks so much for making these videos. This one and others helped me decide on ordering a Pole Taival. Keep up the great work and is there any other way to supporting the channel than patreon? Paypal donation maybe?

This is so helpful, and I am going to repeat part of my response to one of your fans. I am 68 yrs old and ride my bike everyday. I began with Old Time balloon tires to Schwinn Stingray to 10sp Varsity to Raleigh road & MTBs and now I have a 2012 TREK Gary Fisher and an planning on buying a Commencal Meta TR. Help!!!! Online bikes are scary but affordable. BUT, I so wish I coukd test ride and what you said about getting comfortavle with the new geometry is so right on. I am going to ride a friend's house tomorrow (masks & disinfectants) and ride his Transition Sentinal. He thinks the Meta TR would be great, but his bike is the closest I can come to test riding one. So, I really appreciate your videos!!! Thank you. 🤪

Great video and thanks for the content and explanation, as a BMX rider that rides mtb sizing is tricky and confusing, even in bmx where the measure of TT doesnt really speak the true picture and often like in mtb different companies use different measurements. I would love it if BMX frames were shown with a Rider Area for sizing, whats your thoughts on this measurement for MTB? Also very interested in your geo lesson as ive been scouring reviews and geo's of bikes to try and find the right hardtail for me (as where i live no real good LBS that stock good brands that do demo's),

I have been shopping for a plus hardtail for a bit now and I have been looking at the geometry charts hard. I first look at components ie: groupset, fork/travel, wheels, and dropper post. Once I have my list of bikes I am interested in, I make a spread sheet which has components and also geometry specs. I have really paid attention to head and seat tube angles, reach, stack, chainstay length, BB drop, and stand over clearance. I have tried to demo the bikes so I can get a feel for how the fit and handle.

I think it is a matter of our body adaptation to another lenghts and angles. I remember myself when switch from the early 10's bike to 2018 frame. Just a couple of weeks to adapt, yea. After riding this geo for 2 years I found Lee McCormack's article about RAD :> After this I switch back to late 00's bike (they used to be with shorter RAD) and, again, just a couple weeks to adapt with ease. Maan, now I'm a happy man finally with all those sizings.I think, they should add another dimension to any bike specs - center of bb to upper centre of headset - to understand is it ok and I can adapt it with stem and handlebar or not. Great topic anyway, thank you! ;)

Looking forward to your course. Thanks for sharing. Proper respect.

Nice vids !and the video about geometry is very important! I subs you! So remember me !when you go big :) Cus i see a lot of future in your presenter style !

Can't wait for the meta thinking of going that route. But 29r.

I remember my rigid fork mountain bikes. I also had a Hutch Pro Racer before that. Then RockShox came out in the early 90s.

Good info

Hardtail party rules🤘

There's an online brand and they'll post out a blow-up, life-size replica of the bike so the consumer can swing a leg over it. Great for me, as my LBS don't even have a parking lot. Great discussion points, never heard anyone who's just dropped many thousands of pounds or dollars on a bike and said they bought the wrong size haha. Usually, they'll have the odd moment, even an offie and blame the suspension (too many or lack of volume spacers), wheels being too stiff or too flexi, tyres with showroom-shine but not a good compound rubber, and anyone who can't slam their seatpost on the hoof, well, even XC racers are running dropper posts so in my humble opinion, they need educating on THE biggest revelation to MTB even more so than suspension, either end.

Great channel! I am getting into mtbing at the moment. Just got a trek roscoe8. It’s a pretty nice bike for my skill level I suppose. You have any thoughts about its sizing(I got a large based on my height at 6feet)? Also any thoughts on it in general (geometry, spec,frame)? I know it lacks a rear thu axle, which is kind of a bummer.

Have some questions and a suggestion for something that would be helpful for many I think. It relates to slightly altering geo based on tire sizing between rear and back tires, have you explored this? Suspect you have. The suggestion part is that because you likely have a massive stockpile of tires, for example 29er.s in a particular width, I find there is a lack of info or data bases on tire height, .5 to 1 cm difference would be a huge advantage to know about rather than trying a more extreme mullet operation. Thanks for all of your enthusiasm and sharing of knowledge!

I ride some slower, tighter trails and a lot of these longer wheelbase bikes seem like they'd be a bit cumbersome in those situations. Where you ride really needs to be taken into consideration as well. On a side note, the new Following (for example) looks great since the reach is modern, yet the wheelbase is not overly long.

Excellent.

Oh man I miss being a kid with my heavy haro and not knowing any better

I've been riding for years but soon when I get my new bike it will have my first dropper post, some tips on how to use a dropper post would be very helpful for many riders I'm sure. Thanks!

Q: I'm 6'3" and looking to purchase a new MTB but i'm not sure about LG or XL for sizing. Would you recommend sizing up to XL or maxing out at LG?

I feel like reach and STA need to be taken together to find a good fit. Steeper seat tube angles need a bigger reach number to avoid feeling compact.

I use a combo of 2 measurements. 1) reach, for standing 2) effective top tube, for when I am seated. The reasoning is this. I have a min and max reach for me 465-500 with an ideal in the 480-490 range. This is to make sure I am in the position I like for riding. Like you I favor the bigger end for aggressive riding and the smaller end for more relaxed riding. The reason I care about top tube is so I am comfortable seated on a long climb or flat smooth section. With this I also have a max and min 630-670. With this all I care is that it is in that range because between sliding the seat and small stem length changes I can make any bike in that range comfy. So when sizing I find the size with reach closest to my ideal that still has a top tube somewhere in the right range. If Incant fond both, then that model doesn’t have a size that fits me.

You got that right, modern has been an evolution of taking steps in the right direction, all accumulating to now. Old school is either for retro/nostalgia style or a sign of complacency (laziness in not trying to seek improvement).

I don't like modern sizing at all. I am forced to either purchase a M and install the shortest stem I can find and STILL be too stretched out or purchase a S and feel cramped. I miss the old days. Call me a grumpy old man. BUT!!!! It's a great excuse to purchase a custom frame for my next bike. :-). Great video Steve. Thank you.

What is your opinion of Cotic? Specifically, the SolarisMax? Opinions or thoughts? I dont usually comment but I have watched your channel for awhile now, thanks for all the information. Party on!

I just found ur channel and im here to party!! i want to know if u have a video or any advice on how to raise the stack height on a hardtail, i see a lot of video on the angle but non on just the stack? thanks

With so many variables it seems the smart decision is to ride before you buy. Specs do not work in isolation, one spec influences so many others. Then tweak fit slowly over time, after purchase. It usually take me about a year to tweak a good fit.

I was looking at the GEO on Salsa timber jack. From what I’ve read the reach and stack are the only differences from a small to large. Correct me if I’m wrong . From seat tube back are all the same.

I cant seem to find any basic bike size guides for a xc setup, just ordered a 29er size Large frame (following the company guidelines for height) but it turned out HUGE, have about 1 inch space between topbar and crotch while standing on ground. Any recommendations for what I should consider?

Looking forward for the Commencal Meta HT Review. I have an extra 120mm 29" fork. How do you think it would affect the geo on the Meta?

Did I hear "Pole Taival" in this Video? A review of that bike would be great. (But probably not possible atm.)

Hi, me again with the Spec. Fuse :) Quick question: If I change the chainstay length on my bike, will it affect shifting ? Thanks!

What’s your height if I may ask? I have a commencal meta HT 2020 and i’m planning to change my frame to a Ragley Mmmbop 2020 but i’m torn between choosing medium or large. I am 5’9 and would really love to hear your recommendation.

Great background info. But do you think you should ever have more weight on the bars? I ride to keep as much of my weight through the BB as possible.

Some offer leg sizes too, but I have yet to find an answer if you measure all the way up to the ridge, or until you reach your packed stuff. Some videos show more of the latter, but I feel that could be just to be "decent" and not having to move it away to measure all the way. As a big guy I'd be way too scared to shop a bike because of the risk of it being not the right size for me, or it being generally too big and goofy looking, or too small and relative to me goofy looking.

I got so fatigued on my small 26” mtb and now i got an XL rockhopper 29” and its like nothing. I could of gone with the L size because im just over 6’ 1”

My height is 5'6" what size of frame should i get? I ride trails.

I need that hoodie

Hello, I am 185 cm and leg inseam 85 cm. What size can you recommend for cube stero 120?

Any chance of doing a trek stache review.

Flexibility you got it kid....lose it as you age.... I lost a inch of height at seventy haha... still ride the beans outta my insta gator... appreciate it

Mint 🍃

it was Joe breeze who created the first mountain bike if i am correct

Sounds like a massive minefield, especially when buying used. I’m not really used to the modern geometry bikes, so this has got me wondering just what size I should be looking for as I’m still stuck in the old style sizing and I’m dismissing anything under a large at the moment as I’m quite tall. Sounds like I’m doing all this wrong.

Hey Steve, do you have any thoughts on Lee McCormick's RAD bike fit measurement? He suggests modern bikes bave gotten way too long and that most people are riding bikes that are too big despite the manufacturer size chart.

1:57 I tried with my bike. Both wheels could only raise 4 cm (1.57 inches). Is this bike standover height to me too high?

Nice stuff 5 stars. How do I find my optimal reach please?

Man I keep learning with each video I watch! I I’ve in a major city but most of the LBS owners and workers are still stuck on the old school way of fitting bikes and size recommendations. I’d understand with entry level hardtails, but not for $3k+ modern bikes. One shop even had a hard time explaining the effect of reach and sizing with their Specialized lineup!

We now have bikes that feel uncomfortable 😣 At least to me! I HATE feeling stretched! Where is the comfort in that! Long top tubes? Unfortunately even the xc bikes feel overlong to me! Even sizing down by one size doesn't help! Short stem? Still feels wrong... It's a different story on my road bike single speed/fixed gear, that geometry actually kinda fits my body more. Even the drop bars, even though I don't consider drops comfortable at all 😅 625mm top tube... Still feeling stretched... I'm 186cm tall, with longer legs and arms,and shorter torso,and I ride 45-48 (currently 47mm) frames! They feel long! Slacked angles? The bikes feel lethargic 😌 The ONLY bike builder who's geometry makes sense to me is,Jeff Jones! I wish I could afford one of even the cheapest of his bikes! Greetings from Croatia 😎

My gravel bike was technically measured the same way as BMX bikes are.

Hi bro my height is 167cm I’m planning to buy specialized epic evo,do you think medium size can fit me?

Hey Steve, as modern bike get slacker and bottom bracket gets lower, you have more chances of hitting small obstacles with your pedals. So larger wheels may help- but still. What do you think about shorter crank arms? It may be worth a tech video on this....

Decided to go forward on a unicycle.

Great video. Curious, would a 2015 Santa Cruz bike be considered a having modern geo.?

Could you help advise me on a size please ? Trek is not doing test rides or anything for a while so i will have to buy blind. I’m looking at a roscoe 7. I’m 6’1 with a 32” inseam and 76” wingspan. Any help would be lovely for this soon to be hardtailer.

Just asking is it okay to have little to no standover clearance? The stack and reach are perfect for me for the frame i bought but it has a high top tube leaving me to have little clearance left

Would an alternative approach to knowing all this stuff just be to test out a lot of different bikes and take the one you feel best on? Or would a test ride not be enough to make good judgement?

For me Stand Over height is irrelevant! The most important measurements i look for is 1. Reach 2. Head angle 3. Seat tube angle 4. chainstay length 5. Max seatpost insertion. I'm 5'8! on paper every bike company recommends a Medium but i ride Large. The reason? Most Mediums don't have a 460-470 reach which is where i feel most comfortable and not cramped. Yes i could ride a Medium but not on a 40mm stem. My ideal reach is 470mm with a 40mm stem that is my sweet spot. Im comfortable, no back pain, don't feel cramped, the front wheel doesnt lift on me when climbing, still playful, and its stable at high speeds. Also being able to slam the dropper down to the collar is also a must for me. The best advice i can give anyone is that when you find a bike that is perfect for you study that Geometry!!

Bro I need your help changing from a ragley mmmbop 2020 to a commencal 29. Medium Ragley. But commencal says size small based on my reach preference.. say wuhhh

I‘m a simple man. I see hardtails and I hit 'like'.

I'm pretty confused with all the bike standarts, as well with geometry. What would be a advice for mtb beginner. I didn't develop/prefer any technic on my old bike. So I think going for the modern geometry bike and developing skills on that would be best, also for the future, when every bike would be "modern" My old bike was 2001 Balfa 2 step Fr which I bought used for 200$, now I don't have any, so looking for new trail hardtail Loving your channel and keep up with great content

On this similar topic.. Can you explain what the difference is between a progressive frame and linear frame design??

This guy knows bike..

I’ve been quietly riding my 1997 Stumpjumper... this whole new world is scary. Lol

Who watches this even though they have a full squish

How can I make my XC hard tail more trail friendly? 2019 Specialized Chisel expert 1x, 100mm fork.

Bike model?

Lol I'm over 6 ft and my reach is like 14 mm shorter than yours, I am running a long stem though.

wow