Ludwig has mastered the art of opening the video by talking without moving

Ludwig is getting so good at ventriloquism it's scary

She’s known for searching her name on social media sites in order to respond and interact with people talking about her. It’s actually quite funny for her to tell people to get offline.

The problem with the parasocial relationship thing is that SHE FOSTERED THEM. She has kissed her fans, she said she loves them billions of times, shes been fostering these relationships the whole time. She hasn't been like you repeatedly reminding fans "hey you don't actually love me man, you dont know me idk you etcetc." Yes, i agree, its not her job to keep people from becoming attached but the LEAST she could do is not enable the behavior and participate in it, on mass.

So nice of ludwig to let mogul mail make videos again.

I feel like there is a difference between saying that you appreciate your fans but don’t love them individually, and straight up constantly telling your fans that you don’t like them. Like I don’t need to feel like an artist “loves” me in particular or anything because we don’t know each other, but I do think that it is important to acknowledge the people that support you and have made you successful

It's so funny that she's like "put the phone down and get a job" when it seems like all she does is interact with shitty people online lmfao

cavetown made a good point by saying that he used to think the same way until he came to accept that there are different forms of love. The love a performer has for their audience would obviously be different compared to the love one has for their family/friends/significant other. Accepting that as an artist, you can love your supporters in a way that's mostly focused on gratitude for the support of one's art and being able to make a living out of it, allows you to openly receive the love your fans give while still acknowledging a safe boundary that draws the line between fan and friend.

Her telling people to get off their phones and get a job while simultaneously ruining her career by constantly squaring up with random fans online is so funny

As a person that was apart of Jeff's community on twitch, his actions hurt so many women and underage girls. He would fake cry on streams and talk about his mental health being so bad just to manipulate people into supporting him. He used his position to get close to his mods and viewers and pretended to have feelings for them just to receive sex, nudes, and attention.. then would drop them for the next victim. Hes a liar, a cheater, and incredibly manipulative. The fact Doja's reaction to a large number of women coming forward saying how he treated them, is to mock them and block them is insane. So gross

She has a lot of good points, but I also get people being upset with how she is saying it. Her fans giver her money, but they do it because they like what she does. It isn’t ONLY her fans. If she made bad stuff, her fans wouldn’t pay for it. I think the general idea of “I don’t love y’all” is good, but if someone is like “y’all mean nothing” that may be too much

The only thing that really upsets me about this whole situation is the amount of friendly fire. I get that a ton of people for some reason get it in their heads that doja owes them, but instead of just ignoring or blocking them, her first instinct is to reply with the nastiest shit which more often than not tends to hurt her whole fan base instead

Something important to note about the whole "Kittenz" thing is that Doja herself put up a poll on twitter asking her fans what they should be called, proceeded to use that, and is only now revoking it and calling them losers for using something SHE decided to introduce to them. If she never put up the poll, they wouldnt be doing that, at least not to the current extent. Small edit just to state- I have zero opinion on this, I've never listened to a Doja song in my life, just wanted to point this out since Lud didn't, please don't be aggressive. (sandrasim I see u)

At this point im pretty sure she just doing whatever it takes to not be famous anymore because she has been openly unhappy with her career for a while

she's tweeted and said a few times that she loves her fans, so for her to turn around and be so rude and pretend people take it to mean she personally loves them individually is so weird. You can create a general boundary without dissing the people that supported you enough to make you rich and famous. Also so weird to say ily ily then act like you never said it before

You completely missed the part were she called her own music a "cash grab pop garbage" and insulted her fans for falling for it and listening to it + paying money to buy it... That's one of the BIG reasons why her fans are leaving her now.

She's definitely right that noone should love or idolize her, but being kinda famous doesn't give her the right to be disrespectful to others.

While I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with an artist or creator saying that they love their fans, it's crazy how many people think that it somehow applies to them personally. There are a lot of different types of love. If a band says "thanks for coming, we love you all" after a show, I don't take that to mean we're suddenly friends. They don't know me. It's obviously just a way of saying that they appreciate their fans for supporting them, and the love is more of a general feeling of gratitude and positive emotion towards their fans as a whole. Yet for some reason people on twitter think that it means they have free reign to get obsessive and parasocial over a total stranger

I agree that its weird for people to overly love a creator. But nowadays you cant even say that you like someone's content without being called a parasocial weirdo.

Seems she wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants to maintain a parasocial relationship with her fans, but would shame them from having the same thing with her. I fully agree with the conclusionary statement. Get off the phone girl 😂

Had to learn it the hard way when I was a kid/teen that you really shouldn't look up or admire famous people no matter where they come from. It gets mad disappointing when you hear the most horrible thing and feeling disgusted ever liking them in the first place.

Holy shit, I'm so glad Mogul Mail made this video. Way too heated arguments with angry fans on social media, denouncing parasocial relationships, even being bald. I mean until now I had no idea who Slime's role model was but now everything makes sense.

Defending and dating a horrible person makes you terrible as well.

It's funny how she implies that music fans have nothing going on when music is what helps people get through all the stuff they have going on

Lud, its never too late to build something good and genuine

what a unique intro to hold a pose for several seconds

There are artists like Doja who seemingly crap on their fans any chance they get and shame them. Then there are artists like Nicki Minaj who will make sure her fans are fed and hydrated and yelling at them to stay in school and get an education. You don't have to EXPRESS your love for them by saying "I love my fans". Just be considerate to the people who have supported you throughout your career.

i definitely agree with doja cats sentiments about her relarionship with fans. creating that distance between you and your fans is necessary for the creator and also leads to a better community. i think the main problem is HOW she conveyed this message. unlike with ludwig or schlatt or even bo, it was very aggressive and disrespectful

He was in the DM’s of multiple 14 year olds. For context Jenna Marbles found out and Jenna and Julien cut him off permanently.

“Get your hand out of the haystack” has got to be one of the single best pieces of advice for people who are chronically online or always looking for trouble/drama in everyday situations

was a community member in jeffs stream back in 2018-2020 until everything came out and many of my friends were so wronged by his actions. he manipulated his stream viewers and garnered attention with tears in hopes of financial support, that was something anyone could see if they stuck around long enough. but the real issue was how he treated people behind closed doors. records have since been deleted after deactivating that twitter account with his "apology" and snapchat encourages people to not save/screenshot. it was all very deliberate in the way he scripted his abuse. hearing his name is triggering enough for someone who was just a subscriber. its unimaginable what kind of stress the victims must be facing having him be in the spotlight. seeing his face, hearing people talk about the man who unwittingly destroyed his fanbase, having to watch doja cat fall prey to his games. she'll speak truth, and sure shes not wrong that some fans get too personal, but theres genuine concern and shes just blocking people. it shows a real lack of empathy. but its her life and her decisions and its not like i was a fan of hers in the first place. just disappointing to see circulating headlines

Let’s not forget that Doja Cat has asked her fans what they should be called in a poll, where “Kittens/Kittenz” was one of the answers she herself had put, and had then proceeded to use that to refer to her fans. Let’s also not forget that she, completely unprompted, said that fans “fell for” her “cash grab” albums - her two most popular ones that put her on the map, mind you - then went on to say in the same breath: “Now, I can go disappear somewhere and touch grass with my loved ones on an island while y’all weep for mediocre pop”. There is some crazy hypocrisy here, because she was the one who put out those cash grab albums with the intent to… well, grab people’s cash. While she has all the right to hate that music she had put out, to be dissing the intelligence and tastes of your supporters from an ivory tower that would not have otherwise been affordable without them buying those “cash grab albums” and therefore putting her in said ivory tower just seems incredibly tone-deaf and conveys little to no self-awareness. Yes, Doja Cat did work hard to get to where she is. And yes, some of her fans are way too parasocial and have no business meddling. But it’s true that this is not the first time she’s lambasted her supporters. It’s also true that she’s historically displayed a ton of hypocrisy and that her community has given her the benefit of the doubt many times over. She does not deserve to have her entire life and every private matter made public, but to completely disregard very public warnings about your boyfriend being a groomer, still go about hanging out with incels, and almost constantly being very open and explicit about how she dislikes her fans and doesn’t love them just so she can continue being her “brutally honest” self also isn’t really defensible anymore. Not when these issues have only compounded over a mere few years since her initial hit of success.

Okay, I'll be the one to ask the question. How did Ludwig talk without moving his mouth?

Rogan has talked about this a lot. The fact he has thousands and thousands of hours of content where he has shared most of his life, his interests and feelings. People genuinely get to know a lot about him and think of him as one of their friends, but as he said if you approach him at an airport or something he knows nothing about you. Your a random creepy stranger. It’s not that he doesn’t want to be nice and talk to you or whatever but he physically can’t talk to the thousands of people a day that try to interact with him and he’s still human, it feels creepy and unsafe to have random dudes coming up to try and hug you or whatever.

The thing with Doja is: she ain't like Bo Burnham. She WANTS you to support her, but won't give you an ounce of thankfulness. She's essentially using her fanbase for weed money and then kicking them to the curb.

0:07 blud thinks hes vsauce 💀

I was one of J. Cyrus's subs and pretty loyal viewers until everything happened. I trust the people that spoke about their experiences with him, they had nothing to gain. He wasnt dating Doja back then, he was a mid Twitch streamer but he had a lot of powerful friends and a lot of loyal fans.. it was incredibly brave to speak out. No one was trying to destroy his life or make shit up. He fucked up and wanted to blame everything on mental illness and sex addiction. You talk about the parasocial relationship shit, well he took advantage of it and actively fucked with people from his community. This man was in so many girls inboxes, and these girls, whether they were mods or just subs whatever, at the end of the day they were fans and he absolutely abused his power.

That “love you” at the end really caught me off guard, sounded an affirmation straight from your homeslice

I think she’s choosing her abuser over her community, it’s a tale as old as time. It looks like she’s lashing out to protect her relationship. I doubt fans can impact that when close family and friends struggle to protect their loved ones, and they really shouldn’t as that IS parasocial. Let adults make their mistakes and live their lives.

People take the word love to serious in this context. I wouldnt say I love a creator but people who do probably arent implying that they love the creator like they do their family but rather appreciate the content they provide and love said content. Just as a creator should appreciate their fans and love making money doing it.

I got a vsauce curiosity box ad before watching this video and then Lugwig says that at the beginning💀

I don’t think there’s exactly a wrong way to build a community as long as it isn’t overly toxic or predatory, but it’s pretty cringe to see someone backpedal or not own the community they’ve created. A Fanbase doesn’t grow from nothing. It’s a reflection of the artist’s content/actions and marketing strategy.

Doja tweeted a while ago essentially saying hot pink and planet her were cash grabs bashing her fans for falling for it...there's a difference between not "loving" your fans (valid) and actively shitting on them for supporting you for no reason

People can adore content creators and idols without it being parasocial. Like finding comfort in bands like Linkin Park, who's music helped millions overcome hard times and I'm sure many people have found similar comfort in Doja Cat. I also find comfort in a singer like that and even tho I'm not OBSESSED like twitter users are, I'd still be heartbroken if that creator started spewing venom at their fans like Doja is doing to hers. There's a difference between setting boundaries and being outwardly hostile. Doja seems like a very snobby and unpleasant person and I'm sorry to people who enjoyed her content

By no means should either side attack each other. Fans are here to enjoy entertainment, and influencers from any industry enjoy the rewards from their audiences. It's a give and take situation here.

What you *could* say is I don't love you all personally, but I do appreciate you and your support.

This video just goes to show why I love Ludwig. Like I seriously couldn't live without him. These videos are Why I wakeup in the morning, and why I haven't spoken to any family or friends in years. ❤️

she didnt get cancelled mainly for that lud she got cancelled for silencing the SA victims of her predator boyfriend

I think it's more of that she said that her fans got played for even buying her music in the first place. I've never liked how attached people get to celebs cuz at the end of the day it's just a person doin a Job or art. So telling people they're getting too close is fine she's just been a complete ass about it and had been shit talking the people that got her to where she's at which is shitty.

She should have just added a line about how she appreciates her fans and how they are important to her even if she doesnt love them.

"WHIP OUT THE UKULELE" SIR THAT WAS UNHINGED

I miss Jenna Marbles tons. She's definitely an important example of someone just listening to their fans because they really care about people, but then being pushed into shitty and exhausting positions because of it.

I feel like there's a difference between loving your fans and appreciating that fact you have fans and it's not hard to just say that

my mental health isnt the best so i like watching "im not your friend" to keep myself in check

Its crazy that Mogul Mail knows about ludwig's infamous "im not your friend" video too... what a coincidence that my two favorite content creators are finally recognizing eachother

It’s never too late to build something good and genuine

Saying u don't love your fans as individuals is more than fine but we all know saying u "love" your fans is talking about people supporting u and liking whatever u do/create.

when lud started off the video w a rhetorical question i thought he was gonna start playing the vsauce bg music lmao

“Let me whip out the ukulele💀”

still waiting on Ludwig to shave his head and go full-on parasocial with us

An entertainer is nothing without an audience, if you disrespect that audience enough, they will go somewhere else to be entertained

3:52 'Netflix will chill' lol

I actually think more celebs should do this for safety and privacy. I think that if celebs said this as blunt as Doja, a lot of stans but also stalkers and creeps would leave too. Not all of course, but it would for sure get rid of the majority of those who would consider stalking and being creepy. Saying you don't love your fans would definitely hit deep to those creeps and hopefully get them to reevaluate their lives.

Jenna had enough and dipped. She showed who's in charge at the end of the day and I'm curious to see how many more high-profile influencers/celebrities go on their own terms and not canceled.

“Let me whip out the ukulele, let me dig my own grave”. Quote hits different 💀

I think being rich and successful has gone to her head and made her lose touch with reality just like it always happens with celebs or anyone that gets mildly famous. It's just that she's spewing her bs all over her hardcore fans personally because she also happens to be chronically online herself lmao. Where on earth are her pr people, you know? It's too bad she went from being chill and cool to now dating a lying, manipulative pedo.

the god damn opening, true ventriloquist

the ludtriloquism in the beginning is so impressive, this man really does everything

I love that Bo Burnham bit because its mostly right, but technically the 'service' performers offer is to create connections. You'll never undertstand eachother on a personal level through the screen, but the job is to foster a community, and while fans aren't friends hopefully your community members will be with eachother.

Everyone saying Ludwig is getting good at ventriloquism. This isnt Ludwig, its Mogul Mail

i loved when ludwig spoke telepathically to me. it made me feel warm. it made me feel loved.

For me when I say I love a content creator it’s not that I love the person who makes the content I just like to watch the content, if Ludwig never existed it would not affect my life, but if a family member or friend never existed then that would affect my life in a major way, people say that they love a content creator or love a specific person they don’t know, the question is do you love that person or do you love the content or what they do.

Ludwig has super powers, 0:01

I mean tbh it's like telling a shopkeeper, 'I buy your groceries so I am the reason why you can pay your bills,' playing devils advocate.

I think this is the perfect timing for this video with the SuperMega stuff going on right now. The Bo Burnham stuff specifically touched me, I liked SuperMega and I liked their content but I didn’t know them as people, so I don’t have to defend them when bad stuff about them comes out.

I kind of dont like the brushing off of the "this man was dm'ing minors" situation to say "no this guy doesnt deserve the harassment!!" I think P words deserve all and more of it

doja pulled a classic ludwig “i am not your friend.”

While yes, parasocial relationships need to be kept in check, it is important for any person or organization to remember they are kept alive by fans. If everyone decides they don't like someone or something anymore, that person or org is toast. Always be humble.

It wont affect her listening as much possibly, but it'll affect any sponsors and may have future features avoid her. Also, fans are usually the ones that end up buying tickets not the passive listeners. It wont destroy her, but it'll cause a noticeable dent in terms of lack/reduction of sponsors and free marketing that fan groups provide. Also, i feel like she's prolly doing this to promote her new album lol

I never understood the "you'd be nothing without us" argument. She made a song, you listened to it, the transaction is over anything beyond that is just politeness.

I feel like “I love you Ludwig” and “I love watching you Ludwig” is two separate ways of thinking when you’re a viewer idk

One thing though. What he did was insanely bad and gross. But its also sad how women body shame and call him ugly and just shits on him, while women also wants MEN to stop commenting on women's appearances, calling them ugly, etc.

I'm gonna be real, Lud. The hair is the best it's ever been. Extremely clean. Great vid.

I disagree with what you said about “I am not your friend” being just a meme. I think it did actually resonate with people and when I see things about stan culture and parasocial relationships I always think “oh yeah Ludwig is not my friend”. Sure it’s funny but I’m glad you put that statement out there.

the moment he said ''or do i?'' vsauce music started playing in my head

Celebrities of course don’t love their fans on a personal/individualistic level, but I would say that many celebrities do indeed love and care for their audience, and fans of course feel loved by the celebrity, despite not being known by them individually. DanTDM in the Dr. Trayaurus Era is a good example of this; You can tell he seems to love his audience and expresses it by making entertaining videos for them, whilst his fans see him as a role model/mentor, and their love shows through many ways, supportive comments or donations for example, and I’ve heard from a lot of them about how watching his videos helped them escape from whatever difficult situation they were in. Unfortunately, this is becoming a rarer and rarer scenario by the day.

Those first couple of seconds are me when I'm giving a press conference in the hall during my job as a powerful senator.

i mean a good example that comes to mind for this (remembering from the yard ep) ia JSchlatt... Schlatt through his early career got lots of fans, and equal number of these "parasocial stans", which he didnt really want or care for... so he personally said that he grew out his beard and put on weight to look less like a twink, thus eliminating some of his stan-dom... i think Doja in a similar sense just wants to eliminate some of her rabid standom, coz they must be getting in the way of her actual life... her dating someone (even tho the person might be bad) is none of their concern... if their morals dont align with hers, just stop watching her/listening to her songs... i definitely think parasocial stans are at fault her, and Doja is kinda based.

0:05 I feel it's possible to be grateful for your fans' support while at the same time asking to be respected and disencouraging possessive/obsessive behavior. And yes, while it's harder for a content creator to love their fans (since they don't know them personally), it's absolutely possible for the fans to actually love a creator, especially if they feel they know who the creator is as a person (because of their attitudes, thoughts, and so on). It's fine to want to be respected and set boundaries, but dismissing your fans' feelings is disrespecting them (on the top of being ungrateful with the people who support you). As one of my favorite quotes from the Little Prince goes, "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed".

I would've loved for him to start the video with "Hey, Vsauce here". Because it sounded just as a Vsauce intro.

You CAN say “I love you guys” when they appreciate and support you and send you kind messages. That isn’t LITERALLY loving them as individuals and that is perfectly ok to say without it being literal 🤦🏼‍♀️

Tragic how slime's friend died in that motorbike accident. Glad to see Mogul mail doing well 😊

0:13 bro became vsauce

HELP THE LET ME WHIP OUT A UKULELE KILLED ME

Holy crap Lud. That was such a great analogy at the end. Every once in a while you come up with a gem.

You can love someone’s content, you can respect the persona that they put on for camera, but for me- that’s about it.

"eat well today! :)" Me: *continues shoveling dry cinnamon toast crunch down my gullet*

4:36 "let me whip out my ukelele, let me dig my own grave" is a WILDD reference 🤣🤣🤣

Even if she don't even know them she did not have to treat her fans like they was people who she use to get views and treat them in a disrespectful way.

At this point, Doja Cat's whole deal just... confuses me to no end, but I think it's pretty safe to say that she does _not_ enjoy being famous at all.