that's their favorite argument. as if our offensive emotional reaction determines whether doctrine is true or not. the more offensive to us, the less true

Could you please give the time stamp for this. I must have missed it!

@@pinknoise365 at the very beginning opening clip

Faith is not a work, so yes, you can make that decision freely.

@@masona.9875 that's odd. You can choose to be born again of the Spirit of God? How so?

@@sirbenedict2519 When Jesus said, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” You repent. When Jesus said, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink.” You come to Him. When Jesus said, “repent and believe in the gospel.” You do it. The result is that you become born again of the Spirit of God.

@@masona.9875 ok. But what if the person does not want to repent? What if the person does not care for the will of God or for the Kingdom of God? What if, instead, that person's heart and nature are inclined to rebel against the will of God and, because of this, they use their "free will actions" to suppress any and all mention of the truth of God in their unrighteousness?

@@sirbenedict2519 Then the Lord will give them over to their sin as Romans 1 asserts. By rejecting the conviction of the Spirit, they suppress the truth. Of course, Romans 2 reveals that God hardens a person’s heart for the purpose of repentance and that He shows us mercy by delaying our judgment. Some will respond to this treatment, most will not. The Lord knows either way.

My guess is from the same source of middle knowledge.

@@douglasmcnay644 💀

I was lowkey thinking that as I watched the debate yesterday. Molinism seems like deism with extra steps...

Ikr..

Wrong. We are to love God with all our mind. Molinism asserts God is omnipotent and omniscient, and us not the author of evil. Humans are made in the image of God, and have libertarian free will, and responsibility for their sins, and free will choices. Matt 12:36 - we will be held accountable for every idle word, how much more for every act of rebellion, and sin against God. Determinism ultimately makes God responsible for all rebellion against Himself, which is absurd. It's also unbiblical as James 1:13 directly states God does not even tempt us to sin. Do not promote a man made philosophy of determinism and make God responsible for man's sin. It simply does not glorify God by attributing your sins to Him, He didn't make you sin, you chose to sin. Praise be to God, the gospel is really good news! He provides the solution Himself for us, providing atonement for OUR sins. Molinism was rediscovered on accident by a 5 point Calvinist, Alvin Plantinga in 1974 in "God, Freedom, and Evil". One can even affirm "Mere Molinism" as Tim Stratton puts it, while also holding to the 5 points. Mark 12:30 love God with all your mind brothers!

@@jasongillis1336 hey brother, the apostle Paul dealt with these kinds of arguments and what was his response: “But who are you a mere human being to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘why have you made me like this?’” - Romans, 9:20 So his response/counter-argument was essentially “shut your mouth and don’t talk back to God” Yes it’s hard to wrap our heads around but biblical teaching does make God the author of all things whilst maintaining human responsibility and we have no right to try to negate either of the two. God is completely sovereign and yet man is completely responsible for his own actions. If you don’t like that then the apostle Paul wants you to shut up and does not give any of us the right to criticise God. With love brother, I hope and pray that we both see what the scriptures teach in all areas. Amen

It’s not about fairness. It’s about consistency with God’s revealed character. Calvinism implies God is the author of evil. This does not parallel scripture.

@@masona.9875 that's what I think as well.

No. Dividing Line Highlights is a fan channel and not associated with Alpha & Omega Ministries. See this channel's "About" page.

Reformed theology does not teach that God causes people to sin. People sin because people are evil. God hardening someone is not God actively creating or causing someone to sin. It’s simply God just removing his prevenient grace from him and giving him over to his evil desires. The evil is already there. And no, the Bible does not teach that. To do good for whom? You or for God? If you’re doing it outside of Gods glory, that’s sin. If you’re doing the good for yourself, that’s sin. All your works are like filthy rags to God. To do good for what?

@@jasont5300 thanks for the answers. To answer your question for my point #3, I was toning doing good for God's glory.

@@radvermin1541 most people who reject reform theology have no understanding of it. As such with what WLC stated that reformed theology makes God the author of Sin. It’s clear he doesn’t understand it. God doesn’t have to create or author it because it’s already their in His creatures. He uses what is already there (sin) to bring about His will for His glory. That doesn’t mean He created it or authored it. Everything that is created is created out of the same corrupt lump of clay (Roman’s 9:21). The lump of clay is already corrupt because of the fall. To answer your question to 3. The Bible teaches us that law is written on our hearts. Our conscience bears witness to it. It’s excuses and accuses us. Only when we are regenerated are we able to do the good that God requires from us because we do it for His glory and to please Him and not to please our own selfish desires. “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” Ephesians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

@@jasont5300 so, for 3, is this a mystery thing between us choosing and yet God determining? Where I'm at I think that it needs to be both, is having the ability to choose and God choosing as both are biblical. But now that I think about it, if the above is true, is the difference between Molinism (M) and Reformed (R) the difference in order: First God chose then we chose (R) vs first we chose then God chose (M)?

@@radvermin1541 you do choose but you are unable to until your heart is changed by God (the new birth, born again). For the those who are in the flesh are hostile toward God and unpleasing to Him. They hate the light and won’t come to it. The heart has to be changed 1st for them to make that decision. Their heart has to be changed 1st before they can see or enter the kingdom (John 3). The belief and faith comes after the new birth. You can’t have faith and belief while you’re an enemy towards God in you’re unregenerate state. Once you’re heart has been changed and you now “see” you come freely because you do see now. Faith is a gift (Ephesians 2) and belief is granted (Philippians 1:29).

99% of the time, it's KZfaq being stupid. KZfaq seems finicky when it comes to URIs, especially to non-Google owned sites. And I've noticed that when posting Bible verses, it's a lot better to make sure they won't parse as timestamps. E.g. I will post John 3: 16 with an extra space between the colon and the verse number.

Yosemite Sam! lol

Determinism is a man made philosophy. Plain and simple. It's quite sad actually.

@@jasongillis1336 how did you come to that conclusion?

@@jasongillis1336 Show me any concept of molinism taught by the Holy Spirit In the Bible? One place? Predestination on the other hand is taught (very arguably) in multiple places. You believe that a guy, a nonbeliever, discovered some hidden truth 1500 years after Christ and the apostles? You’re going to believe that guy? Goes to show that you’d rather believe men and not the eternal all powerful Creator Who said his word is the truth. As it is written “let God be true and every man a liar.”

@@DillonJan It's a long story, but the short version is, I want to obey God, and follow the teaching of Scripture. To love God with all my heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love my neighbor as myself. I'm interested in the truth, and my goal is to glorify God by telling the truth about Him to others. This includes defending the truth of the Word of God, and giving every man an answer, for the hope I have in Christ! So, I think Determinism, is fair game, because it's my contention that it distorts God’s character, removes responsibility, and ultimately destroys genuine love.

@@KIEFFNERCLAN @KIEFFNERCLAN Consider James 1:13 - God tells us directly He does not tempt us to sin. Determinism goes against this clear teaching of Scripture by asserting God decreed for you to sin. 1500 years? Brother, Tertullian and Irenaeus were writing about free will in the 100s and 200s - against the Gnostics who promoted Determinism! So let me ask you about the origins of determinism - where did it first come from, and when did it enter discussion amongst Christians?

I was thinking the same thing during the debate when Craig was content that no one before Molina would have recognized Molinism in scripture. This is very different from what the Reformers were trying to do. Luther and Calvin especially were especially keen to show that their ideas came from the Bible and were found throughout the history of the Church. So while you might not find any one person holding to all of Reformed Theology, they documented where ideas were found. Molinism, at least according to WLC, starts with philosophy and uses the Bible to check for contradictions. Reformed begin with the Bible to define their philosophy. I think it would be fair for someone to claim that the Reformed failed at this goal, but that's a night and day difference between the starting point of the two systems.

@@oracleoftroy Do you assume the basic reliability of your cognitive faculties when you approach the Scripture?

It is true that men are not consistent. The current pope is a perfect example when looking at the previous popes. Even Luther changed over time. However, that doesn't mean they have nothing worthwhile to say. Augustine's understanding of man's nature and sinfulness from reading Scripture and recognizing his own wicked heart was most definitely a step in the right direction. Genesis 6:5 is among one of many passages that point to the radical corrupting force of sin in the heart of man. We should not assume that we are any better than those people that God drowned in the flood. Most probably we are actually even worse in some ways.

@@douglasmcnay644 Sure I can absolutely agree with what you're saying I would not totally dismiss Augustine. I would only be aware that there is a difference between early Augustine and later Augustine. He was heavily influenced by Manichaeism and at one point he was a Manichean. I do think Dr James White does have valid questions related to Molinism. However also I understand that Molina was not the first to come up with these ideas of God's knowledge ( middle knowledge )

Dude, put down the Provisionist koolaid.

@@pinknoise365 technically I don't even identify as a Provisionalist or an Arminian but I absolutely reject Calvinism. Never was a big fan of Kool-Aid 😉

@@mannycano4599 So you’re just here for the anti Calvinist takes, mmkay.