Thanks. I agree with you. And I'm not knocking precision shooters. They've won competitions and their well-earned experiences are valid; whatever works for them obviously works.

when it comes to 22lr ammo that has been complete opposite to my experience! testing 12 different ammos with 4x 5 round group at 100 meters it became apparent very quickly the first groups after switching ammo with different bullet lube had more outliers and worst groups. It was very apparent when switching from copper to lubricated lead and vice versa.

I might agree with part of your synopsis, however, there can be no doubt that some rifles do display a marked preference for a particular ammo over another! I've observed this in both center fire and rim fire over 50 years of shooting factory and hand loaded ammunition.

@@rt66rc86 I'm sure there are some situations where one type of ammo works better in one rifle than another. I think that it is not as big of a issue as people make it out to be.

@@TheOldFatDadGoober Actually, it can be the difference between a rifle being just "mediocre" and being "GREAT"! Which is why many of us got into re-loading, having the ability to tune a given load to a particular rifle also makes a HUGE difference, if you know what you're doing and how to get where you want to go... I have a Ruger American in 7mm08, that I bought on a whim. I don't hand load for it yet, but in shooting factory ammo through it to see which one it prefers, Federal Fusion in 140 grain will put 3 shots into .5 moa @ 100 yards on any day that I'm not screwing things up! Other ammo brands would do 1.25 to 1.75. Some rifles don't give a hoot what you shoot through it, it will shoot well regardless! However, for 50 years, the observable rule has been that some factory cartridges will absolutely shoot better in some rifles than others! You can prove this by using your best rifle and running the tests yourself!

My 5.5" bbl .22lr pistol hits more clays on the 200 yard berm with Aguila 1100fps LRN than any other ammo except Federal Target Automatch - about equal, but my 10-22 hates the Federal.

Thanks for watching! Don't forget to subscribe to my channel.

If I could get a good price, I'd stock up too.

Thank you. You're one of few folks who actually say they like my music choices. Hope you subscribe.

Yes I subscribed

Same here on most all that. At almost half the price for the fed auto match, I shoot it most as it runs pretty good in the bolts, autos and pistols we take. I keep the cci for more varmint stuff as its mostly hollow point. Velocitor in my boot gun.

Every gun is different. Which budget ammo brand shoots best in your 10/22?

​@@MoondogIndustries I get the best bench rest groups at 50 yards with CCI Mini-mag 36 grain hp and Aguila 40 grain rn. The Aguila 38 grain hp and Federal Auto Match are almost as good. I get abysmal groups with CCI Mini-mag 40 grain round nose. I'm a 50 yard off-hand shooter, and the bench results don't always reflect my scores standing, unsupported.

I'm still hoping to find that unicorn ammo for my 10-22

Thank you! I hope you subscribed.

Is the Federal shooting better in your Savage?

You know what your talking about for sure

Guarantee they won’t. My 452 prefers standard velocity only the more expensive the better SK and wolf standard are not that bad price wise and preform very well

@@charlesdavaro8554I tried the automatch in my anschutz woodchucker last summer after my reply. I shot 5, 5 shot groups in a row at 100 yards with it. I had groups ranging from 1" to 1 1/4". I have a junky 3-9 tasco world class mil dot scope with crosshairs the size of barn boards. I'm sure with a better optic it would shoot tighter.. Didn't try them out of my cz yet. Really don't care how they group since I like using HPs only for small game and varmint hunting. Just some good' cheap, junky, ammo for practice imo. They do cycle perfectly in my beretta bobcat as well.

I'm find the same with about 3 weights that 95% of the rounds fall into and about 1 or 2 random super heavy or super light per box of 100

Thanks for watching! Don't forget to subscribe to my channel.

Certainly for the price

True. Hope you subscribed, I'll be doing additional reviews later this year.

Agreed. I can't even find Fiocchi 22LR anywhere near me. At this point, shoot what you can buy without selling a kidney with prices the way they are. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.

Finally someone who knows the difference. You can not compare the two

True words. Hope you subscribe.

Thanks. Hope you subscribe.

I heard similar reports as well. The weight difference is in the powder.

I suppose whatever is on sale

It's not Apples to Apples terms of velocity, CCI Mini-Mags would be closer. But CCI Mini-Mags are copper plated. CCI Standard was used because I wanted to compare two LRN ammo in a similar price range. Thanks for pointing that out and I hope you subscribe.

Thanks. Usually the comments I get are "you shoot terrible". lol.

@@MoondogIndustries lol. Well it is the internet. You know how that can be. 🤣🤪

I've been taking advantage of Big-5s one-day flash sales and I'll probably make one last hike out to Sportsmans Warehouse to stock up on whatever they have on sale before July.

Remington Golden bullits ( and Thunderbolt) is stuff that never will come close to any of my equipment. I don’t even want it for free. Terrible.Some of my bolt action rifles don’t close properly!

@@woutergijs5246 Damn sorry to hear about your bolt action rifle. It’s funny to read stuff that isn’t necessarily true today like my S$W will fire anything I load them with now. I have quite a few thousands of.22 I’m actually kinda proud of all the different ammo I’ve managed to find and buy,? I have only shot one box of 500 T-bolts and they all went off but I had to clean a little more than normal

I tested it with an IR thermometer once and was a bit disappointed. There isn't much if any temperature difference between 3-5 shots and 16-20 shots. It may be different if you're doing full-auto speed mag dump but normal target shooting tempo, the temp pretty much stayed stayed the same. In fact you have to leave the bolt open and let cool down for more than minute before the temp drops. But I never filmed it. I may just take you up on your suggested an do a video of it. Side note: A center fire ELR shooter (over 600yrds) I know tells me that he and other serious competitors all use chiller fans when competing so that their barrels are all cold for every shot.

@@MoondogIndustries All very interesting, thanks for the reply!!

Agreed. At this point, shoot what you can buy without selling a kidney with prices the way they are. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.

These will work in your bolt action (which model Remington?). Many bolt action shooters I know like shooting CCI Standard.

@@MoondogIndustries remington targetmaster 510

@@tonyv8925 definitely didn't work, after many brands I decided to use with the 40-grain norma tac standard, they did a very good job

Agreed. At this point, shoot what you can buy without selling a kidney with prices the way they are. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.

Depends on what distance. At 25yrds it won't make much difference but at 50yrds or 100yrds, your zero will change between brands. Generally, I'm finding at 50yrds each brand has its own zero.

Nope!

It is not solely a function of bullet grain weight. Muzzle velocity and energy, as well as bullet type (lead round nose, copper plated, etc.) affect zero.

Good point. Thankfully you did. Hope you subscribe.

@@MoondogIndustries Yes Sir, I have been Sub'd for sometime now 👍😎

If I could find SK, Eley, or Wolf locally at a price that doesn't make me cry inside, I would by bricks of it. Please subscribe to this channel. :-)

I didn’t realize you where using a takedown A barrel that comes off a gun like the takedown should not be used to test ammo , its my opinion but there is too much slop in a takedown especially a stock 1022

@@charlesdavaro8554 There is not such thing as a universal ammo accuracy test. I test the ammo in the gun I plan to shoot with. I own a 10/22 takedown and this is an ammo test for that rifle. Right?

charlesdavaro8554, I will leave my comment even thought you won't see it. I appreciate your comment because although most aren't aware, Auto Match rim thicknesses, shell weights, bullet diameters, shell lengths are all over the place, it is OK for informal plinking. The actual best improvement in accuracy is achieved by getting rid of politicians that restrict the sale of ammunition which forces the price up for what is available.

Thanks for the response but this review isn't really about how to get the tightest groups with 22LR. It's just showing how these ammo group in the most popular 22LR semi-auto rifle sold in the US (the Ruger 10/22). That said, between these two ammo my CZ 457 groups this much better and prefers the Federal but there are much better ammo to use in a CZ 457 than either of these.

What distance do you usually shoot at?

@@MoondogIndustries 50-75 yards, with some shots at 100 yards. Most of my squirrel shots are 50-75 at elevation up into the trees. But I have shot out 100 yards with paper and steel

Agreed, its a pissing contest between these two. They're both good enough. Be sure to hit the SUBSCRIBE button, thanks.

50yrds. Every gun is going to shoot different. My intent with the video is to show what these ammo's do in my 10/22. I've got ammo reviews for these ammo in a CZ 457 and I'm working on videos using a Ruger PR. Be sure to subscribe.

Rubbish on every point. All barrels should have a few fouling rounds for consistency before accuracy testing. Barrel 'grade' completely immaterial to this rule of thumb. 50 yards is perfect for 22lr accuracy testing, from bulk to match ammo, differences are readily apparent at that range and can be extrapolated out with less wind polluting the results. Suggesting 150-200 yards is clearly from inexperience, and frankly absurd. Even the barest breeze nullifies the results. Even if zeroed at 100yds this CCI standard velocity suffers nearly 12inches of drop at 150yd and 32+inches at 200yd.

You obviously are unaware of long range precision .22 shooting. Of course there is a drop, there is a drop at 100 yards. That’s part of it. When, or if, you ever buy a high end .22 you will understand.

@@jeffstephenson4156 Irrelevant. There's long range shooting for virtually everything which is immaterial. 22lr past 100yards is ballistically a rainbow. Impractical and silly for grouped accuracy testing. Anyone with a modicum of 22lr experience would know this. The starkly obvious point that .22lr is significantly affected by wind, especially at the 1050 fps here, let alone past 100yards. Any strict accuracy grouping testing should aim to neutralize the influence of wind on the result, not introduce it.

That is your opinion. Mine is on experience.

@@jeffstephenson4156 Clearly not.

CCI AR does group better in my 10/22 than Mini-Mags but I haven't tested it vs. CCI Standard. I still remember 3 years PSA was offer CCI AR on clearance for $14/case. Sadly we'll never see those days again. Hope you subscribed.

Couldn't have more similar results myself. The only thing that shoots better for me is CCI suppressor ammo, which I thought strange, because of the large hollow, but I guess it might be due to the extra 5 grains of weight.

No offense taken. This was a test of this ammo in my off the shelf 10/22 TD rifle, nothing more since every rifle is different. Certainly an upgraded barrel and trigger would improve groups. But again, not the intent. Tha KS for tips by the way, hadn't heard of the tape barrel hack, I'll have to look that up.

@@MoondogIndustries YTber STKO uses tape under his barrel band and gets great accuracy because of the change in barrel harmonics. Without spending more money, you can scotch pad the inside of the receiver. Also watch some of the YT vids regarding adjusting the takedown screw torque setting - factory is 18-20 inch pounds, but some are getting great accuracy at anywhere between 14 and 30 inch pounds. But you'll need to test different torque settings. There are a couple of gunsmiths, e.g., Connecticut Precision Chambering, L.L.C., that will fix the bolt for you for about $50. Otherwise you would need to buy a precision bolt - Kidd or Tandemkross. The greatest gain will be in your trigger. Check out Brimstone Gunsmithing for that. LOL you could have bought a custom gun but customizing your stock 10/22 is much more fun.

Think of it this way, your groups are going to be different/better if you're using a normal 10/22 or a bolt gun. But it's the relative differences between the brands that I'm testing.

That's kind of the point. I'm trying to remove my shooting ability (or lack of it) from the testing variables. This video is an ammo test, not a showing-off-how-well-I-shoot test.

What kind of clamp do you use?

@@MoondogIndustriesBecause it's a permanent fixture, I'll take a picture of it when I'm at the range on Saturday.

CCI or any standard velocity?

You're welcome. Hope you subcribe.

If your statement were true, high quality after-market target barrels would not out shoot factory barrels as well as and as often as they do Jeff! I'll concede that your point does hold some validity, as the majority of barrels will perform beyond the abilities of the shooter and I include myself in that statement. I don't own any Anshutz .22lr rifles, but consider the reputation that they hold in comparison to many other fine .22lr rifles! I own a couple of CZ .22lr rifles that come very close to an Anshutz in accuracy, however, they just will not do what those will! So, there is my evidence... :)

@@rt66rc86 I guess you missed my sarcasm. I know for a fact that high quality after market barrels will always outshoot factory barrels past 50 yards. Did you miss my “SMH” at the end of my comment?

@@jeffstephenson4156 Well Sir! To be out right honest about it, I don't have a clue in hades what "SMH" means! :) Maybe its my generation...

@@rt66rc86 SMH= shaking my head. Come on, I’m 55 and I knew it. 😉

@@jeffstephenson4156 Hmmm, "SMH" yeah, I should have guessed it! Well Jeff, I'll know better next time won't I?!? :)

It's a skill, I know. Of course, if you read my description you'll find the CHAPTERS. You can skip to the testing RESULTS.

Glenn, there was a lot of useful information contained within this video. Take a nap and re-watch, maybe you'll get more out of it after you've refreshed a bit! ;)

It was to address criticism from an older video that I needed to "season" the barrel. This test attempted to determine if that was necessary. It wasn't for my 10/22. I've since streamlined my testing videos to only 20rnds.

Well, if a Ruger is the rifle you own it follows that a Ruger is the rifle you'd test ammo with, no?

@@MoondogIndustries it doesn't give a good test for different ammo though as it shoots them all bad...

@@Dieseldoggy502 Haha. Well you should see my other ammo video comparing ammo between my Ruger 10/22 and my Marlin 60. Both are pretty close to each other at 50yrds. So maybe it's the me that's bad?

@@MoondogIndustries my bergara b14 r carbon shoots 1 hole group all day with ammo it likes

@@MoondogIndustries where is that video you have so many videos lol

Back in October 2020 in California, yes. I was allowed on an law enforcement range but the Department had to follow County Health Dept. Guidelines on County Property. But that was in 2020 but California politics are still idiotic. Be sure to SUBscribe for more crazy California gun culture.

Care to elaborate on the flaws?

@@MoondogIndustries Sure man. Again , I'm not trying to be mean or criticize, and I do appreciate your efforts and what you are attempting to do. First of all, if you're going to use a "machine" type rest to secure the gun during firing, it has to be rock solid and stable. Consistency is the key in accuracy testing, whether the test is for the rifle or the ammo or both. The gun has to recoil exactly the same, or as close as possible with each shot. I think you would have gotten better results shooting off of good bags, or a good rear bag and benchrest, or even a good bipod, and getting down on the gun using good shooting form and trigger control. Ditch the plastic table and the plastic rest. Do your test either mechanically or human, can't have it both ways. If you watch the firing sequences at .5 or .25 speed you can see the inconsistent recoil. Also can see inconsistencies in crosshairs on target before shot breaks. Notice how some shots are left, right, high, low. Solid platform, solid consistent rest, practiced trigger control, and good shooting form should produce much better results. If you're goal is to test the ammo itself, use a more suitable rifle, not a lightweight, sporter barreled, take-down version. I am a big fan of the 10/22, and currently own 3. One is a Kidd barreled, Kidd trigger, Magpul stocked semi custom that will shoot .3, .4 groups all day long with CCI SV, at 50 yds. Of course, even match ammo can have an occasional flier. Your process of starting clean and cold, and firing fouling/seasoning shots is correct. Although 20 rounds may be a few more than needed. On the right track there. I'm sure someone may disagree, and you know what they say about opinions. My opinions are based on over 50 years of shooting, 30+ years of handloading and load testing for various rifles in several calibers, rifle and pistol. My .02 cents worth. Best regards and good luck in your future testing and videos.

@@kevinbain7153 I agree with most of your comments. But you know that no ammo shoots equally well in all guns. I wanted to see which among these 3 ammo shoots best in my Ruger 10/22 TD, never claiming that these results were applicable to all rifles or even all Ruger 10/22s. Take this test as a "worst case" scenario as far as "normal" shooting.

@@MoondogIndustries Absolutely 100% agree that no ammo shoots equally well in all guns. That's why we test ammo until we find a "keeper" for the gun in question. Also why we handload to find what the gun likes. With factory ammo, even match ammo, you will experience variations from lot to lot. The first line of your introduction states "How accurate is CCI Standard and Federal Auto Match 22LR ammo in a factory Ruger 10/22?". My point is this is not a fair test, due to the testing method, for the rifle or the ammo, for the reasons I stated. The resulting groups were horrible at best, and I would bet my bottom dollar that rifle will shoot better than the test results, with either ammo. If you are satisfied with your results then so be it. I'm only saying, IMO, you won't find the right ammo for your rifle, or any other using that method and equipment. Best of luck all the same.