Reasons I dont like turnbased: 1- Turn order has such a huge impact. Not going first can mean you just lose before you can do anything. 2. Does not scale well at all. Waiting for every enemy to finish their turn can be super dull. 3. I feel almost every turn based game just gives way too many movement points. You can get up in a snipers face on turn 1 of combat. And because the enemy sniper hasn't had his turn yet, overwatch isn't up. How stupid is that? You cross an entire battlefield in one turn without getting shot at.

I also highly prefer turn-based mode but pathfinder has happened to convince me that being able to switch is just the best system. I don't want to spend countless time on trashmobs so i just switch to real time in those instances. I also really like to be able to set AI behaviour in Pillars.

Pathfinder WOTR put me off until I installed the ToyBox mod.The ability to push one button to buff you’re whole party with super common buffs, instantly, made it much more enjoyable. Pathfinder is a great example of a dev trying to hard to replicate a specific experience that gets in its own way somewhat.

Thank you. Although I genuinely love crpg's and grid combat I have always struggled a bit and this has shown me some reasons why. Good vid

Agreed with your preferences. I'm definitely a turn-based kinda gal, but I also like real-time with pause, or anything that gives me the time to think and strategize (also because I'm not overly good at reacting quickly, AKA I suck at shooters and more action-y games). The deeper and tactical the system in use is, the better.

I would love a video of how you do combat in Pillars of Eternity, like a break down of actual combat...I would love that

Few things I'd like to add: in turnbase, initiate is OP as going first and catching enemies flat footed is probably the biggest advantage you can achieve. This is less of an issue in RTwP; although you might not be able to attack, you can still run away and positioning+timing is much more important for coordinating attacks to nuke a target simultaneously. Also RTwP feels more sandbox where unique interactions like interrupting opponents or getting a timely heal in the middle of an enemy attack animation is possible. As for reactionary vs proactive, it all comes down to prebuffing which I'm not the biggest fan of since it simplifies decision making for your action economy due to the opportunity costs it grants. Also it is extremely hard to balance encounters, overbuff and game becomes too easy, underbuff and the game seems impossible. In WoTR, you can go from wreking enemies in 1 rounds to dying in 1 round depending on how many buffs active. I found DAO had the best prebuffing system: most buffs were modal (toggle ability) instead of active (timer) based with upkeep that increases fatigue so stacking buffs had conquences.

I hope CRPG AI gets to the point where you can let the game control all of your allies and it does a great job 99% of the time. My ideal RPG game would be something like DOS2, but with Diablo-like combat and intelligent AI party members that actually have my back and make smart choices. As it is, I prefer turn-based over real time w/ pause, but I'll play both. I do like old school JRPGs and a few card battler games too (Deep Sky Derelicts is a lot of fun, IMO).

There’s a level of strategy in turn-based games that i haven’t experienced in action-based games yet. Talking of RTWP, Final Fantasy XII The Zodiac Age might be the closest thing a JRPG has ever been to a western/baldur’s Gate game. The gambit system in that game works exactly like PoE Deafire.

Glad I stumbled across your channel!! Really enjoying it so far. I'm just getting back into CRPG/TRPGs after a fair hiatus. I'm loving the turn based RPG recommendations you have ...not too many channels showing love for them! Keep up the great work!

Must admit I'm not a fan of pre-buffing. The Pathfinder stories are great, but the system, especially at high levels really puts me off. I have finished neither of them.

I can't wrap my head around these games. I *somehow* got through Dragon Age Origins a decade ago. I didn't even know what a crpg was. But playing them now I just can't comprehend what to do.

That's some very good info and well presented in a manner that should make people new to the genre or about to take their first step into it, somewhat familiar with what to expect and how to adapt to each. I would only add that turn based over real-time with pause, also allows for more complex mechanics to be implemented without taxing either the player or the ruleset itself. Not that you can't have complex mechanics in RT-with pause, just that implementation is easier, especially when the goal is NOT to over-spam the pause button to the extent that would make the game effectively a turn based experience anyway.

Great video as always!

While turn based combat is certainly slow (Solasta), it's not as bad as it once was, probably due to advancing technology. I remember playing Wizardry 8. Not only was the combat slow, but I remember there being a ton of combatants involved in every battle, too. My memory probably warps things, but I remember being able to get up and make a sandwich while a battle played out. 😂

I prefer turn based, but I think that options to automatize the combat for secundary caracters, like Dragon Age Origins, would be good in RTwP.

I see everybody here saying they prefer turn based, personally I find RTwP so much better. It feels more immersive and realistic cause all characters act at the same time and in games like pillars of eternity you have an action speed which sets it even more apart from turn based, also you can have effects and conditions last time instead of turns and it vastly differs between different spells and abilities and based on the attacker's stats and the adversary's defenses. In turn based a stun usually lasts one turn or two, always. In pillars of eternity it can last for 12,3 seconds, 5,7 seconds, 2,1 seconds and everything in between. In general I just think RTwP adds a lot more depth to the combat and makes it much more interesting. Currently finishing Pillars of Eternity on Path of the Damn (started with normal, then hard, but stopped before act 2 cause it was too easy, so now I'm playing on PotD and it's so much better, currently on Act 3, and finishing White March part 1 both with upscale), and can't wait to start Pillars of Eternity 2. Edit: Also, for players thinking about trying RTwP, the Pause button is your friend, use it as much as you need, I use it almost every time a character stops casting something to issue new orders, depending on the difficulty of the fights. Ability keybinds are also very helpful.

Real-time with pause!!!

I played the ones you mentioned but I also wish to mention Gloomhaven and Bard's Tale IV due to how different they are. Bard's Tale IV have no randomness. Your actions do exactly what they say they will, and the strategy comes from playing/doing stuff in an optimal order while planning ahead for your next action and handling the opponents actions. Gloomhaven is kind of that as well even if there's a random element to it (due to drawing combat cards).

I like and play both and everything in between, both have pittfalls. It's hilarious when people claim one side is completely superior to the other or that they won't touch the other style. The recent BG3 going turn based being an example (D&D 5e leans heavily towards TB, Solasta did the same).

crpg combat systems vary so much, you can either have something like Pathfinder crpgs, PoE's system, the old BG system, etc. Then there are ones that are super simplified and makes you want for more depth

I aways plays either type of games, but to be honest in games with real time in pause I tend to lean more to the history portion rather than the combat overall, just because this mechanics is not my favorite, but I never let off by a game for this, I'm a most history oriented gamer than gameplay wise. Another great video, thanks a lot

I was raised on turn based games, but RTWP does have some great parts. I think games where you can automate character actions are the best

A major part of DOS2 combat is inflicting status effects to deny an enemy a turn or force an enemy to waste a turn. The way turn-order works means that wasting your turn is a pretty severe penalty.

kinda off-topic; as I've not found one in my searching, but I wonder if there's ever been a CRPG with a FF-styled job system. Feels like those systems would be fun to mix together.

I must admit that, when I started watching your videos, I didn't understand what "realtime with pause" meant in contrast to "turn-based". I was thinking of "real-time with pause", as "turn based with the illusion of real-time". On the topic of rule systems: If I understand it correctly, d20 is now an open license, so it makes me wonder why so many companies bother with developing their own systems. Of course, if it is well done, it can really enhance the experience. But it takes both the studio's time and resources to develop, and the player's time and frustration to learn.

I prefer the real-time system just because I don't like playing with the other characters. I don't want to have to memorize spells and manage the progression of classes that don't interest me. So I'd like to see a turn-based game where you have the option to control only your main character. Perhaps an action button that makes the IA decide the next action for the characters would be great.

Very informative, thank you Mortem.

I have been playing Pillars of Eternity and I suck...how do I get good?

This made me think of the most flawed game that I still like and play: Master of Orion 3. One of the features it was supposed to have but never did, was space combat in realtime with pause. It's even in the game, it just doesn't work. I remember thinking that they've must have hit some kind of snag where the programming turned out to be insurmountably difficult. And yet, this is something that old CRPGs like Baldur's Gate pull off without problem. Sad.

I really like real time with pause, personally. Turn based can be boring for me depending

It's funny how some traditionally console games actually start to be very close to crpg. Especially in the turn base side of things we are going back to the final fantasy tactics root which I'm all in favour off personally

To tell the truth when I was starting to play games I loved Baldur's Gate 1 real-time with pause but the older I get the more I like turn-based. Now hear me out: For me both require a lot of thinking and planing. First one focus more on planing out your characters and their defense and damage while the other one focus more on adaptability to the battlefield and covers etc. In real-time with pause I found myself using more of auto-attacker damage dealers that does require feats but don't require you to use active skills to the point I mostly build adventurers party without arcane spellcasters and only 1 healer. I think turn-based just makes all classes equally important and useful as each of them gives you some options and it is also easier to react if you overextended your line or fucked something up.

What's the game at @0:49? Looks right up my alley

Any recommendations on a game that would be good as an introduction to learning real time w/ pause?

Is your mic alright dude?

This feels like a dumb question, but is there an advantage to playing crpg’s on PC over console? I’m def going to pick up Wasteland 3, and for some reason I’m thinking platform choice may be a helpful consideration? Maybe not & a couch/controller doesn’t matter vs desk/m&k

I like both TB and RTwP but of the two I mainly prefer RTwP. SOme TB games such as XCOM, Battle Brothers and the DOS games are really good but generally I find TB games too easy, too one dimensional and insufficiently exiting.

With Pathfinder switching RTwP to TB and vice versa even in combat, I think this just raised the bar in CRPG genre, I now expect more games to have this. RTwP is good for trash mobs and TB I use for more difficult battles.

You can also have simply just real time combat, like in later Might and Magic games, or Elder Scrolls ect.

I much prefer full turn based and not “with pause” That hardly feels like turn based.

Turnbased all the way! good show sir

Have you tried Wildermyth yet??

I like turn based since I can use strategy over real time where I have no idea what's going on and see my character lose half her health.

i personally hate both realtime with pause and turn based because poth feel like every action takes too long and they lack impact, the only reason i tolerate them is because i love the character building, choices and story in crpgs, even tough i said this the ones i liked the most were definetly pathfinder wotr realtime and divinity os 2 turn based

What is the game at the 7:15 minute mark?

I'm with you, in that I think I prefer the more complicated turn based games. I grew up playing games like the original XCOM with the action points based system. I loved finding ways to get the most out of the more complicated systems ....where as the move and action system seems somehow .....limited and simplified to me. I still enjoy them all though. I just lament the disappearance of action point turn based systems.

Yeah, I always tell people that if they're doing the combat in Pathfinder 'correctly' that they'll spend more time pre-buffing before a fight than they spend in the fight itself. Of course you also have to know which buffs stack and which don't.

Age of Decadence still has the best system by far. No magic necessary.

cree fomment.