Mountain Meadows Massacre: Its Violent Inception (w/ Barbara Jones Brown)

Рет қаралды 5,701

Күн бұрын

Exciting news! I am starting a new multi-part series on The Mountain Meadows Massacre with historian, author, director of Signature Books, content editor of the award-winning "Massacre at Mountain Meadows" and co-author of "Vengeance Is Mine, The Mountain Meadows Massacre and Its Aftermath" Barbara Jones Brown!
This is part one where Barbara and I discuss the Mountain Meadows Massacre, a tragic event in Mormon history where a group of Mormons in 1857 killed a large group of innocent men, women, and children. With Destiny begging to Manifest in the 1850s, the US government was hot for an economic and cultural superiority expansion. Mormons had their backs! Or DID they? Here's the overview of all the forces at play that led otherwise sane people (hold your jokes) to commit heinous acts of violence on innocent people.
Pick up the book Vengeance Is Mine from your local bookseller or online: www.amazon.com/Vengeance-Mine...
Listen to the audiobook of Vengeance Is Mine: www.audible.com/pd/Vengeance-...
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TIME CODES:
00:00 Why this massacre needs a deep dive
4:00 Fallen prophet Brigham
5:50 Vengeance is Mine, Barbara’s decades of research
10:23 Overview of the Mountain Meadows Massacre
11:50 The Bear River Massacre
13:38 Beginning with the context of The Mormon War
16:40 Mormons wanting freedom and isolation, ally with Indians
19:06 US wanting westward expansion, Brigham Young fights with gov
23:44 Why Mormons felt threatened
26:46 US President sends troops to Utah, Brigham stops them
31:15 Brigham convinces Indians to ally with Mormons
34:10 Brigham tries to win public opinion, but still violent
38:02 How is this book and story received?
40:15 Disproving rumors that the women were whores
43:30 Telling the truth for the victims and dependents

Пікірлер: 66

@CarahBurrell 6 ай бұрын

Below are the time codes and links to donate to fund this podcast! This show is part of The Nuance Hug Foundation, a 501c3 non-profit so all donations to Donorbox are tax-deductible. Thank you! 00:00 Why this massacre needs a deep dive 4:00 Fallen prophet Brigham 5:50 Vengeance is Mine, Barbara’s decades of research 10:23 Overview of the Mountain Meadows Massacre 11:50 The Bear River Massacre 13:38 Beginning with the context of The Mormon War 16:40 Mormons wanting freedom and isolation, ally with Indians 19:06 US wanting westward expansion, Brigham Young fights with gov 23:44 Why Mormons felt threatened 26:46 US President sends troops to Utah, Brigham stops them 31:15 Brigham convinces Indians to ally with Mormons 34:10 Brigham tries to win public opinion, but still violent 38:02 How is this book and story received? 40:15 Disproving rumors that the women were whores 43:30 Telling the truth for the victims and dependents Help me continue making important, hilarious content by becoming a one-time or monthly donor! 🤝 DONATE VIA DONORBOX! donorbox.org/thanks-for-the-amazing-content-carah-let-me-help-you-keep-it-funded 👩‍💻 Join the Hoetown community on Patreon: www.patreon.com/nuancehoe 🍯 Tip Jar (Venmo: CarahB): account.venmo.com/u/CarahB

@katwitanruna 6 ай бұрын

Break the silence. Break the cycle.

@unclemaui 6 ай бұрын

I’m excited for this. The first time I heard about the Mountain Meadows massacre, was as a teenager on a youth conference trip. When we went to the monument, I walked away from there having no idea who had actually happened. I couldn’t have told you what that story was or what happened until after I had left the church.

@curtisdecker3175 6 ай бұрын

The Fancher family goes to my ward in Huntsville Arkansas. I know the story of the victims by the stories of their family. I live in northwest Arkansas/South West Missouri region. The area is rich of early lds history not of Utah culture. Mormons in Arkansas and Missouri are pretty chill, unlike the ones in Utah. The Fancher family did in fact take in a group from Missouri that had intent to hitch a ride with intent to follow the mormon extermination act due to Utah not being a part of the US, they thought it would out of federal jurisdiction and they could eradicate the mormon problem. Instead, many innocent were killed in the process. Sucks but cause and effect matters. They didn't just go off killing innocent people without reason. It was with reason and that reason was misinformation.

@eskylent7962 6 ай бұрын

Hi! 👋 At 48, a woman living in Australia who has thankfully never been indoctrinated into a religion (I’m just curious about cults & have never known the nitty gritty of Mormonism & am just now learning) OMG! I am SO SORRY you went through this! The trauma must be awful! I’m listening to a fantastic podcast called Naked Mormonism (the subset explaining the history of it) - if you’re only just deconstructing it maybe too heavy BUT it is astonishing! It’s really well done & so insightful! Huge recommend for anyone coming out of this cult & needs to know who Jo Smith REALLY was. Hey, much admiration to anyone questioning their faith. You’ve been brainwashed & the suffering this cult has inflicted is revolting. Much love ❤️

@Zeett09 6 ай бұрын

Yes. Naked Mormonism is great!

@eskylent7962 6 ай бұрын

It is SHOCKING! I am appalled that this exists! (Sorry I’m new to this so I’m in rage on behalf of all who have suffered under this cult & that it’s a non taxable billion dollar fraud) I will NEVER take my freedom for granted again! I wish I could help in some way! (Sorry, again about sounding hyperbolic!) 😢

@Mountaineadowsjustice 4 ай бұрын

Love how MORMONS are still profiting off my family - yet unwilling to tell the whole truth- and not mentioning the bodies have never had a proper burial nor have they been sent home to Arkansas- sickening.

@Kalama_Llama_King_Kong 6 ай бұрын

Great episode!!! I accidentally stumbled on that meadow, on vacation. Was such an eerie experience. If I was more true to my spiritual and cultural heritage, I'd say you can feel the bad spirits in that land. But I'm an absurdist, nihilist, presently, so I'll say I am grateful. I found that meadow and visited the memorial there and had the image of that meadow etched emotionally into my long term memory.

@Kalama_Llama_King_Kong 6 ай бұрын

Bonus: my TBM kids had to face this history. Their direct lineage goes to a stake president, in St. George, who spoke up against the militia and actively tried to stop them.

@82566 2 ай бұрын

It certainly does have an eery energy ,so quiet except for the sounds of the wind . And when u stand there imaging the horrors that day it's just unreal they really had nowhere to run 😥

@youmightberightorwrong 6 ай бұрын

Barbara has such a comforting and calming voice and way of speaking. What a sophisticated and beautiful woman.

@whitneylee4923 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for helping me learn more about my infamous family 😢🙃

@travislee9396 6 ай бұрын

Hey. Just another of JDL descendants here. Hope you find what you are seeking. Our family has a crazy history.

@Zeett09 6 ай бұрын

I did listen to the book on Audible. Very well done!

@katschneidermusic6745 Ай бұрын

“A fallen prophet” 😂 this is why we love you, Carah!

@tawnyachristensen7310 6 ай бұрын

Beautiful studio! Great interview! I have such respect for Barbara!

@JSandLDS Ай бұрын

It absolutely needs to be a six-part 'netflix' drama, but it also needs to be season 6 of it.

@82566 2 ай бұрын

Today iam listening to the whole series thanks Kara 😊 📚

@grantlands.5896 6 ай бұрын

Carah you rock!! High quality stuff as always!

@CarahBurrell 6 ай бұрын

Thanks so much!

@olyokie 5 ай бұрын

Maybe a couple of the most important historical podcasts I have seen. Really, really important and well done. Definitely ordering that book. Outstanding!

@NancyBrown-xw8hg 6 ай бұрын

There is a book called Massacre at Mountain Meadow, it has a list of all of those envolved; the people on the wagon train, the native people and the names of the Mormons who did the shooting. It documemts who did what and when.

@BarbaraJonesBrown 6 ай бұрын

Yes! I edited that book and Vengeance is Mine is the sequel. It delves into the aftermath of the massacre.

@NancyBrown-xw8hg 6 ай бұрын

@@BarbaraJonesBrown I never read the second one, the first was disturbing. I guess I should so I could know the whole story. One part of it which bothered me was the women at home praying that their men would be safe. I suppose they didn't understand they were going out there to kill unarmed women and children. In the D&C it says those who will go to Zion are those who do not want to kill, no wonder we lost it. I have wondered how many of them sinned against the Holy Ghost, D&C 132 and can't be forgiven. The Stake Presidents and Bishops will have to give accountings of their stewardships, I'm glad I'm not going to be standing in their shoes.

@SatansRoerhat 6 ай бұрын

You just always strike the perfect vibe, between serious and funny, not very easy to do!🏳‍🌈🏳‍⚧🌟🌻

@hrh4961 5 ай бұрын

Don't forget, the second "m" is always silent.

@sandimontoya8536 6 ай бұрын

I am so excited! My father gave me the original book in the early 80s. Too groovy

@whatever5486 5 ай бұрын

Why hasn't this been made into a movie?

@RobertParker-ou9gy 6 ай бұрын

Love your content Cara. I’m a non-Mormon (non-believer in general) who happened to grow up in Idaho falls from the age of 10 on, now in Boise. So I do feel a sort of connection to the church as just about all of my former classmates and friends were indeed LDS. That being said my family was an extreme minority and this has left me with a love /hate yet totally fascinated and conflicted relationship with Mormons. I wrote my senior thesis on the Mountain Meadows Massacre and am just enthralled with Mormon history. I am culturally liberal to the heart , yet often find myself defending Mormons against bigoted Evangelicals and the like. I’m so stoked you make content for such a niche interest viewer such as myself. Much respect

@JohnDLee-im4lo 4 ай бұрын

When you're ready to set aside the hysterical rantings of those with an agenda who post here: THE FACTS: It was a military operation of the Iron County Militia, a regularly constituted military division of the State of Deseret. The Mormons had left the US when they came west into Utah, unincorporated Mexican territory. They set up their own government, printed money and declared themselves independent of the federal government. With the end of the Mexican War in 1848, western lands were ceded to the US as part of that treaty. In effect, the US government followed the Mormons out to Utah. When the feds tried to impose federal authority in Utah, the State of Deseret didn't take too kindly to it. The officers that had been sent to "govern" Utah were sent packing back to Washington. The Mormons had had enough of the "constitutional" treatment afforded them in Missouri and Illinois that ended in the murder of Joseph Smith and his brother. They were in no mood to be governed by the same people who had driven and killed them. As a result of the wild tales of rebellion, President Buchanan dispatched fully 1/3 of the US military to Utah to "quash the Mormon rebellion" in 1857. Brigham Young declared martial law in the territory and the Mormons were preparing for a military assault on their community. This was the climate into which the Fancher wagon train rolled. The Mormons wouldn't trade with them because they were preparing for war. They were frustrated and threatened to go into San Bernardino and bring the troops up the southern flank of the Mormons while the army units attacked from the north. I'm no military genius but you can't have a two-front war. The wagon train was unfortunately in the middle of a conflict they couldn't control and lost their lives. As a military matter, it worked perfectly. None of those people made it to the military outpost at San Bernardino. Innocents die in war all the time. War is hell. Tragedy but understandable. The winners of war usually get to write the history and so they call this encounter a "massacre". If Washington had lost the Revolutionary War, he would have been hung as a traitor and his skirmishes would have been called "massacres"...see how it works?

@melissadauphars8630 6 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@CarahBurrell 6 ай бұрын

Aw thanks so much!

@melissadauphars8630 6 ай бұрын

@@CarahBurrell 🙏🏼🙌🏼❤️

@hittsrus5185 6 ай бұрын

27:13 The Mountain of the Lord if you're trying to remember the name of the movie. Used to love that one once upon a time.

@melissadauphars8630 6 ай бұрын

Just bought the HARD COPY

@bextrek4829 5 ай бұрын

Brigham Young brings to mind current events and a former president of the US.

@jameswoffinden9215 6 ай бұрын

What material gain was there to killing these people traveling through?

@hellishhybrid1839 6 ай бұрын

You have to understand what was going on at the time. Utah was basically gearing up to fight the US government. They actually call it the Utah War, something of a black stain in the state's history. The majority of the casualties of that "war" were these unfortunate settlers. The Mormons basically ended up going full anti-everyone else and started attacking caravans of outsiders to try and drive them off. In this incident they were using Paiute natives to attack the caravan, but ended up panicking when they became convinced the settlers had seen white men among the natives and the militia commander William Dame ordered his men to slaughter them as a result.

@spookymicah3131 6 ай бұрын

The book explains all of the gain they got from it: food, clothing, tools, grain, dishes, fabric, animals, and many other supplies.

@82566 2 ай бұрын

@@spookymicah3131I just ordered this book 📖 iam so excited to read it

@spookymicah3131 6 ай бұрын

Hi! Barbra said that this was the first time the US government had sent the troops onto her own people. I thought the Whiskey Rebellion would be the first time? Maybe I misunderstood! Either way amazing podcast

@ernestomenendez9307 6 ай бұрын

I met a woman identical to Nuancehoe at the Sinagogue here in Bournemouth, England this last weekend. I spears it was her! 😮

@bwhitedpencilbox889 6 ай бұрын

I want people to start taking about the massacre of the Timpanogos tribe in Provo, I’m glad this is coming to light but it does feel like the mountain meadows massacre is seen as an atrocity because it was white Americans being killed. Mormon pioneers were very violent

@abihebb6720 6 ай бұрын

So disappointing that your BY bookend broke. You know, the japanese are really well known for the technique of kintsugi, or the act of repairing broken things with gold to highlight the seams which are repaired. Perhaps you should look into finding a kintsugi artist near you? Rather than getting a new bookend, it would be more representative of the idea ofhow your faith was broken, and that because it was you were able o come to a beautiful new understanding of the world. Plus, that would mean that one less item goes to a landfil (also a minor FU to the concept of people of colour not being able to have the priesthood). By the way, love your podcast.

@jamespeters9522 5 ай бұрын

Follow the Profit!

@Sabrina_Likethe_Witch 6 ай бұрын

I am SO thrilled to learn more about this !! Thank you @nuancehoe

@Mountaineadowsjustice Ай бұрын

@15:25 you both say it was an act of war and they were in wrong place at wrong time? I understand why Brown says this- she’s the PR rep for the church. But when they were targeted, used, duped and murdered. Used again, victimized for over 100 years, and still lay in a mass grave on LDS property- all so Brigham You g could be protected, not be removed as “ruler” of Zion- I am surprised you agree. I watched you a lot learning about Yiur the early saints and church- this made my stomach really hurt and made me mad and sad. I’m so sick of the lies and excuses, mostly the way the truth is twisted to “shine sunshine” in church as Brown said.

@melissadauphars8630 6 ай бұрын

Nope

@melissadauphars8630 6 ай бұрын

Lets eat

@melissadauphars8630 6 ай бұрын

👮 Check baby check baby 12

@melissadauphars8630 6 ай бұрын

I OWE U 🥰 🫂 🤗

@melissadauphars8630 6 ай бұрын

She kinda looks like Heather Gay to me