There are two rules: 1 Aquatuner moves heat. 2 Anything hotter than 125°C goes in steam below a steam turbine. It really isn't that complicated. His aquatuner bridge bypass and heat regulation with doors are not required, so it looks a little more complicated in the video than it has to be.

@@Hedning1390 As a nooby i must ask: what would be an aesthetic(-ish) alternativ? Or any alternativ at all? :)

@@MuhGuy What do you mean by that?

@@MuhGuy For the doors you can just cut that step out. Doors are easier to use than pipes in some very specific circumstances. His example with the magma oil boiler is one such. However it's not something a new player has to bother with. Doors are more fail safe though. If for example you lose power a door can still open and stop the heat flow. However if you are heating your aquatuner coolant and power stops for a long time the coolant can heat up until it vaporizes, damaging the pipes. As for the bypass its purpose is to keep the coolant flowing so that you don't have to measure temperatures in several different places should you have many hot-spots. I prefer to use something similar to 20:40, ie a short loop for the aquatuner and one or several large loops going through the "ice box", but with a loop and pipe thermo sensor instead of a pump and valve feeding the tuner like 24:06. Basically 24:06 for controlling the tuner and the 20:40 loops instead of the door.

@@dsch772 Well i thought that doors outside of there actual ment use, looked kinda ugly - like as flowdy~tiles underneath a waterreservoire... And in most builds they (i didn't know open doors couldn't let heat travel through) they sticked out like a sore thumb to me, so i always look for alternativs.

after building my first SPOM it basically clicked in my head how to play this game lol

I still don't understand temp shift plates

@@steele1485 Let's say you have a super hot aqua tuner. You put a temp shift plate behind it, that heat will spread to the surfaces around it a lot better than it did before. Even insulated tiles will start heating up if you have a temp-shift plate next to it. You can use temp shift plates, an aqua tuner and a steam turbine all sealed in a thermally insulated block to create a liquid cooler that deletes heat fast. And remember to create a vacuum first. Other gases like Oxygen will screw with the mechanisms. Use a gas pump and a liquid lock to create an easy vacuum. Ideal liquid lock will use something like Crude oil which has a high boiling point. Liquid locks use the fact that liquid sticks to the ceiling after a certain height creating a door dupes can walk through without breaking a vacuum.

@@DarkD112 I thought temp shift plates take in the temperatures of the tiles around it and even them out. And I guess my issue was not vacuuming my steam turbine room. Or a bad seed, I had a hot steam vent and a iron volcano within 10 tiles of each other.

@@steele1485 Anything complicated needs a vacuum. Things like "hydrogen always goes to the top" is too absolute in ONI. Everything just ends up settling. Evening out the temperatures wouldn't be wrong either. But its practical use is better thought of as heat transfer. Like a hydrogen volcano typically makes gas at 500 degrees. If you try and use a steel gas pump on that, the pump will break. So you create a heat sink with radiant gas pipes and temp shift plates to pull the heat out of the gas and into a water boiler steam turbine.

I was trying to demonstrate it more visually, not everyone is well versed in SHC so I wanted to make it as accessible as possible.

@@FrancisJohnYT Yeah it was a nice visualization. Great job on that! I just like to think everything in terms of energy :P

Thanks.

Same here ^^ Brothgar is really entertaining as well, can only recommend

@@DrRetardo8600 i dont like him, he just male things soooo complicated. Francis guides are a bit more dumbass friendly :D

Same. This guy is honestly the best of all the videos.

Here I am in 2020 doing the same

The game grows on you so incrementally, one day you struggle with setting up toilets then a few months later your trying to optimize your petroleum boiler.

A concise summation.

You ever watch videos at 1.5x speed? Can help an awful lot when dealing with wafflers.

Cheers for the shout out, I occasionally watch some grind this game when I'm trying to de-stress before bed. Even when things are going wrong and he is stressing out his voice is always so soothing :)

@@FrancisJohnYT lol. yeah. he's a rly nice dude and could put a goat on speed to sleep ^^

Don't change the temp of the hydroponic tiles, change the temp of the gas the plant is in.

Yes, there was. Can confirm.

Thanks, I just got to that part of the video

yer a transformer turned off has the same power loss as a standard jumbo battery

So you could connect the battery automation wire to the transformer instead, and delete the cutoff, the bleedoff from the transformer would be minimal. Though it wouldn't actually be electrically better then the cutoff.

Well that simplify's things, will have to make a correction to this on the next temp management video.

Not sure I understand the question but let me try and explain. 10:30 is for cooling high temprature, ignore the aquatuner for a second. The heat output from the metal refinery is so high >125C it causes the water to boil to steam which is then converted into electricity. You are effectively turning waste heat into free energy that you can use to help run the metal refinery if you wish. The Aquatuners only purpose in this build is to keep the steam turbine from overheating. You could rip out the aquatuner and cool the steam turbine another way like Wheeze, Ice plates or a thermoregulator. The Aquatuner is just the most efficient way. 15:30 this version is for cooling down things to below 120C, cool your O2, crop area, temprature control sleet wheat. If you tried to cool down your metal refinery output with this it would cost you a fortune in power. Go to the metal refinery and hover over the different recipes, it tells you how much heat it will dump into the coolant liquid and how much that will raise the temp of the liquid. The metal refinery is special, it dumps enormous amounts of heat into it's coolant. While you could feed it water and then cool that water brute force style with an aquatuner why not fed it a high temp liquid like oil, let the oil get above 125C, use the hot oil to power a steam turbine and get free power instead.

@@FrancisJohnYT That's basically what I understood from the video then. Thx again!

Most of the easy stuff is done, they are all running to long now.

True, but a cooling loop that's been setup will be much more reliable and easier to manage.

@@atheistyoda8915 True, but we are talking about how much time the construction/upgrade itself takes.

@@Lorens4444 It's worth it imo. It's not that hard to do anyways and once setup, I don't really have to worry about it anymore (Unless I do something extremely stupid).

@atheistyoda8915 IMO, it's worth it only if I construct something permanent, like the industrial brick. However, I found out that I could do just fine without it.

I'm using that technique to cool metal volcano's, it's really handy to cut down on the infrastructure investment.

I think it will bock the turbines, you should only get polluted O2 forming if the pressure in the room is below 2kg. I keep my room at +15kg and no O2 can from from the polluted water.

Unless your industrial brick is producing a megaton of heat you should be able to reduce the temp of it as low as your coolant will allow. Double check your insulated/radiant pipe and make sure your not exchanging heat where you should not. Also double check your temp shift plates, remember they can exchange heat diagonally not just left/right up/down. For the Liquid O2 H2 tanks I tried to make them small as it generally a waste to have more than 5/10 tonns on hand at any one point. If you check the rocket calculator you can figure out how much you would need if all your rockets requested fuel at the same time and plan accordingly.

My old solar tutorial is still valid I think, will have to dust it off and see if it still works.

Can be done. Usually not for temp destruction purposes but usually because 95C water is all you have on hand.

Their is no real optimum. But I will mention that you want enough liquid that it prevents massive temperature fluctuations. Having way more than you need is fine so I usually put 200kg of water (one bottle empty) in each one.

That is a pretty big investment of time and effort, I prefer to be fast and flexible at the start. Then once you have the tech and resources heat is a non issue.

On my current playthrough I'm using dreckos and I am using a wheeze in there to keep the meal wood going :) The nuggets are there to get people though the bulk of the game, if you can do steam turbine aquatuner cooling you can do anything you want. Finesse can be applied later.

They act as lubricant to move heat around as a background prop. Normally it takes a long while for materials to transfert heat (between gases and tiles, or even between tiles without limiting dupes movement). And some gases and materials have a low thermal conductivity. The tempshift plate acts like a conduit for all nine "space" around it. They have a lot of mass (800kg, compared to a tile with 200kg, to a tile full of liquid 1000kg, to a tile of gases (between 1 and 20 kg for extremely high pressure; normal gas pressure for a dupe is 2kg to avoid the "pop eardrums" debuff)) and act like radiant piping for all their 8 other "space" arounf them, equalizing temperature between them at a quicker pace.

@@francoiscoupal7057 thanks, now its much more clear for me. :)

The heat problems... I didn't know it could be destroyed and I was playing in a version where there was no space so the only solution I came up with was a vacuum isolated steam room to store all those joules... And then I ran out of water, and then dirt. The game has gotten much easier since then.

This comment a bit old, but check out his tutorial on industrial brick

True-ish. However smoothies will eat 25% metal ore and give you some meat in return. I use only 5 of them(with 1 unpowered incubator) per stable. Way less heat. I'm not in a rush. I simply drown vents, geysers and volcanoes with water and then research them without needing a atmo suit. MR+AQT+ST will make your mid game way easier. And of course it is only way to make steel in long run and big quantities.

Thats what messed up the temp, I originally placed a copper aquatuner that I preheated to 30C. I replaced it with steel because I always use steel even if it's not necessary :) but i forgot to preheat to 30C.

Did you use any Temp shift plates? The water itself is not a great conductor, so the temp shift plates force the temp from the water/ice into the iron tiles.

That almost sounds like a game where you have to make your way across a planet laying rails.

If you can cool ethanol to -100C I'm not sure you need the ice anymore :)

@@FrancisJohnYT I find it so annoying building new pipes and things through the spaghetti, much easier to take some ethanol from that rust biome chill it and freeze some water. Like around electrolyser banks, I build them early before I have anywhere to store the hydrogen.

It sorta is. Honestly, if the dupe AI was a bit better I would love it despite becoming that, but they will actively find ways to get themselves stuck at every possible opportunity. Drives me up the proverbial wall.

It depends on what you are trying to cool. If it's running flat out cooling something it's adding 14C to 10kg of water every second. If you only have 100kg of water in the steam room it would only take 71 seconds to get it to start boiling. If the steam room has 1000kg then it's ten times longer. Thiers a lot of variables here so I can't know what's off with your setup. I suppose the question is not is their steam but are you getting the cooling you are try to achieve? If you are then who cares if the steam room is not hot enough yet?

It should be exchanging temp with the ice box. The Ice box is surrounded in metal tiles and radiant pipes run through it. As the liquid passes around the edge of the ice box in the radiant pipes it exchanges temp.

The first step is up to you. Demolishing the map is the one constant in this game for me. If you want to conserve the map you can but then you should go for the oil biome, that will give you access to the necessary power to get as much cooling as you need up. Though I should point out that you can get by for everything bar space with just one aquatuner if you want.

Might you have had both a bridge and a pipe between it attached to your loop? Whenever you fill a loop, it's always important that all sections of pipe must have a reliably simple direction it flows in. The best way to control the direction of fluid when branching or merging is bridges. If you use a reservoir with a simple loop (no branches) the reservoir has a set direction and acts exactly like a bridge. And any time you're adding liquid into a loop, or really branching two pipes of fluid it's best to only touch the two routes via a bridge between the them. As an added bonus, removing a bridge never leaks the fluid, as it doesn't have any storage capacity.

You have other option it's just...... if something is hotter than 125C you can get energy out of it from a steam turbine. At that point you lose the incentive to dump heat into petroleum and burn it off in a petroleum generator.

The extra mass makes a huge difference. Imaging a 500C 10kg bubble of hot liquid passing through a room that has a half a kilo of gas pressure at 0 C. With perfect temperature transfer the half kilo of gas and the 10kg bubble will end up at 476C. Now make that half kilo of gas 20kg and everything will even out at 166C. If you want to cool or heat things up having an awful lot of mass around at the temperature your aiming for makes for a very stable system.

That totally makes sense. Moreover, due to TH clamping, low masses might not conduct too well. I think also the naptha was problematic. I thought it might be good because of the higher vaporization point and higher SHC, but its TC is *much* lower, meaning it sheds the heat slower. Made some adjustments that work better now. P.S. When cooling a cool steam vent, isn't it better to put the AT/ST in the room with the vent? That way you can utilize the fact it starts at 110, heat (with the AT) and get better cooling. In my system, I have a pool below the vent with doors that open when the pressure in the main room is too high. The AT cools that pool.

The door needs to close to allow temperature to transfer across. Use a temp sensor to regulate when the door opens and closes.

Thanks John! Your videos are awesome!!

Steam turbines allow you to treat heat like a resource, I find it's usually better to hold out for steel and plastic.

The save game file is linked in the description if you want to open it up and have a look. As far as I'm aware it still works. Do you have a sensor to stop the liquid chilling below it's freezing point?

@@FrancisJohnYT I actually made a mistake with materials I was using. However even after fixing my mistakes I still had problems - it was very near the freezing point. At this moment I realized that I'm an engineer and I'm suppost to use my own brain cells as well. Therefore I removed the gate and metal tiles completely. Then I pulled the radiant cooling pipe to cross on top of the gas pipes. I set my coolant at 20 degrees and oxygen comes out at nearly the same. No more freezing problems I have noticed that Mr.John likes these gates in other builds as well and I assume they are very much needed at dealing with magma etc. Thank you so much for these old? but gold videos!

Along similar lines: Is there an acceptable alternative to all the ceramic insulated liquid pipe? That is a lot of ceramic/kiln use for when I am trying to limit heat production. [400kg per pipe section x 20 segments = 8000kg ceramic, just for the refinery setup] I tried to use granite because I have a ton of it but the pipe broke from the heat. Would igneous work better or is ceramic the only alternative? I'm not sure which property to look at.

No need to do that, once the cooling starts it should overpower any ambient temp. Well so long as you don't build it in magma of course :)

I made up thermal injectors, thermal couplings has a better ring to it.

This was a needed change, now transformer automation has a place.

I'm not really sure what you're asking with 2. If you mean the pipes beneath the steam turbines, in the steam room, yes, the coolant won't be cooled below the temperature of the steam (at least 100) in this system, so you need to make the refineries with materials that increase the overheat temperature. This is in contrast to a system where you run the coolant through an aquatuner inside the steam room, which can make the coolant much colder than the steam.

The temp only transfers when the door is closed.

I'm having this problem as well. I switched to using gold metal tiles (60 thermal conductivity vs 54 for steel) and I'm still not getting enough cooling from the center icebox to the side ice box. I have diamond shift plates in the side ice box, and iron shift plates in the center ice box. I'm going to switch to a design Francis shows in this video at 20:05: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aKehZs6Dud7Qh2Q.html, it seems like it would suck heat out of pipes more efficiently than the tiles + doors allow the side iceboxes to do.

Petroleum boiler tutorial is out on Tuesday.

It will. Supercoolant has a vaporization point of 436.85C.

Every liquid has a boiling point. You can even boil steel.

The liquid output of the metal refinery is it passing through the aquatuner stem type area? That is where it's supposed to dump off it's heat. Also what liquid are you putting in the refinery, you have to use something with a high boiling point, water won't work, oil or petroleum are usually good early game ones. There is a save game linked in the description if you want to open up the sample map and have a look.

The problem with vent to space is you could just take that heat and dump it into a steam turbine and make energy. That is why no one uses them anymore.

Think of the bragging rights. But more seriously, what is the temperature of the CO2 coming out of your industrial sauna at when it gets into space? Might be worth it to run just one more Steam Turbine if that's how you're dealing with the heat.

My first piece of advise would be don't grow crops that require water, either hatch/slickster/vole ranching for BBQ and/or wild planting crops using pips. If you want to you can cool the water down using the designs show though you would need to do a little flow control. If you limit the liquid pipe to 2.8kg it should work for you. For example with the 3kg O2 build just run a liquid pipe through instead. The Aquatuner can cool the 10kg/s water going though it by 14C so that is 10kg/s by 14C. Assuming the water you are cooling is 75C and you want to cool it to 25C that's 50C of cooling you are looking for. 50 divided by 14 = 3.57 that divided into the 10kg of water and you get 2.8kg/s.

@@FrancisJohnYT Ah, I see! I did indeed pre-install 3 liquid pipe sections just like the radiant gas pipes but it didn't cool the water down very much at all, I kind of forgot about heat capacity of gas vs water. Would it work if I just do 1 radiant pipe section in S-shape through the box (so 9 tiles of radiant liquid pipe instead of just 3) and set the flow to about 8.4kg/s (3x 2.8kg/s)?

@@T675Sparky You can only cool 10kg/s of water by 14C with a single aquatuner.

We talking about liquid or gas pipes? This is a weird one. Radiant gas pipes are made out of metal ORE, but radiant liquid pipes are made out of refined metal. So gold radiant liquid pipes have great thermal conductivity, however gold amalgam radiant gas pipes have the worst thermal conductivity. To complicate things further Radiant gas pipes can also be made from steel and space metal. So to answer what I think the question is, Aluminum ore has worse thermal conductivity than steel.

@@FrancisJohnYT Oohhh okay thank you I think I noticed that it said aluminum ore and wondered if that was the case.

The steam turbine and aquatuner are on the far side of a power transformer so they can't feed power back onto the grid. If the steam turbine turns on and the aquatuner is not running the power would be wasted. So you keep a battery around and you keep it's power level between 30-40% so if the steam turbine turns on there is somewhere to store the power.