We were totally divided on Solemn Simulacrum and Harmonize. What do you all think? Are they overrated? Underrated?

This image is great, everyone else has normal magic cards; door of destinies, solemn, strip mine; then there’s just Crim with a Forest

"This is the only way to ramp if you're not in green!" Wayfarer's Bauble: "AMATEURS"

I just find it hilarious that Crim doesn't like the idea of paying for Thaumatic Compass ability for a land but absolutely loves the idea of sinking mana into Soothsaying lool

20:56 this is something I see a lot, where people think there's this dichotomy between budget and budget-less where I'm either spending $1000 on a deck or 10 cents. I play all "budget" decks but I play less than 5 tap lands per deck usually. Most people can get a bfz, show lands, midnight hunt lands, or the shock for their two color deck, but might not be able to get the og dual, fetches, rainbow lands. There is in fact an inbetween here and Tomer is right, you can make a nice two color manabase with those random lands even though its budget. You don't have to use tap lands.

Thaumatic Compass: I wholeheartedly agree with Richard. The worst thing that can happen to any player in a commander game is miss their land drops in turns 3-6. This is an insurance policy against that happening, which becomes a Maze of Ith / ramp in the late game. Having this card in my opening hand feels amazing.

Richard the fact that Strip mine puts you down a land is what makes it good to enable the white ramp!!! Strip mine one opponent, swing at another one with the Cartographer's hawk thats how you do it!!! well your not technically ramping but one opponent is behind at the end of the exchange xd

Every time Crim is on a podcast I'm more and more convinced he's just a supervillain.

Solemn is definitely not overrated. It’s probably one of the first gateway Drugs we took to get to the creatures we get today. It does so much for so little downside.

The quad S rating for Solemn had me laughing like crazy

Solemn is goated. It's like a veteran, it gets special privileges for its service over the years. Also still tremendous ramp and advantage for colors that struggle with those things.

I think we've hit a point where Solemn ends up being your 101st card sometimes, especially if you're not leaning on artifact or blink synergies. Still super playable in most decks, to the point where your deck probably isn't any worse off for including it and cutting another utility spell.

We just needed a sad robot to make Tomer and Richard agree on something! And Solemn gets a pass because no four mana ramp will draw you a card and be available to all colors at the same time

Tomer, you know what other 4-mana ramp spell also draws cards? Hedron Archive. It draws twice the cards, and ramps twice as much!

Here's the thing about Tomer's defense of Solemn: he made a bunch of corner case arguments, BUT those corner cases add up and I think Solemn is still good in the format. It's the definition of versatility.

Seth’s face from the 20 min mark while tomer was speaking was absolutely what I needed to see today. 👏🤣

Solemn: I was actually convinced by this episode that it is a good card. I viewed it as 4 mana ramp as well and not great card draw so I cut it. After breaking it down let’s say you get a 2 mana ramp spell which is pretty decent. You can then assign 1 mana for a card draw which is good. You finally then get 1 mana for a 2/2 which is also good. All in one card I would agree it’s probably an S tier staple

Most often on this video I agree with seth. I only use Solemn in artifact decks, harmonize hardly makes the cut anymore. But good stuff guys, love it

What I got from this episode: Tomer's type is *Elder Human*

I can't afford a solem in every deck I build, but I can say that I've never cut it from a deck after adding it.

The thumbnail with crim and a forest is just amazing

No one would argue that Sakura tribe elder is bad. The reason for that is that it's basically rampant growth that chump blocks. Solemn does the same thing. Yes it costs 2 more mana, but there are multiple upsides as well. First of all Steve isn't actually a rampant growth because you have to sac it to get the land. Solemn gets the land right away and can also threaten to block for multiple turns or be sacrificed to activate a different effect. Also because you sac it Steve has no chance of actually killing what you block, Solemn actually goes to combat and therefore is a more threatening blocker that might actually kill something. And of course it also draws a card and can go in non green decks. It's definitely worth the extra 2.

That mill card Crim brought up, could actually wreck all the cascade decks I see.

Doesn't need to be basic for the Shadow/Show lands. It's just of that type. I rarely have those coming in tapped in my games. I also still "gimp" myself by running at least 1 of the evolving wilds and fabled passage if it's 3 or more colors. But man, I remember the days of Vivid lands and Temples. Loved them early on. Land nostalgia is real. :)

I found the section discussing lands to be very informative. I got hooked on basics in commander when I played a lot using Xmage and everyone had wild mana bases with all the best non basics. I'd play ruination and laugh.

Strip Mining a flipped Dowsing Dagger, if anything, would make you more likely to win the game than lose. It's 100% worth it to go down a land to ensure someone doesn't have 8 mana on turn 4. Also, there are lands that straight up win the game. Field of the Dead, Coffers, Cradle, the flip enchantment Cradle, Serra's Sanctum, etc. Not having an answer in your deck to those lands is asking to get bodied by them.

I only play solemn in decks where it fits the theme, but since it has an ETB, death trigger, and is an artifact I end up with Solemn in like half my decks!

game idea: play cards printed only pre-2017 precon era. no new cards for nostalgia. Maybe you might find some old gems to revisit!

Coat of Arms is basically a colorless Sliver Legion thanks for the idea Richard i will use it and Door of Destinies in my Sliver Legion deck

for harmonize it is still playable in a green deck that has a low creature density and doesn't have blue. there are too many good card draw spells that are more efficient if you are playing a lot of creatures, which most green decks want to do. I have also found personally that most of the decks I play with green even if they are low on creature count tend to have another more efficient way of drawing cards (enchantress effects for example) or gaining card advantage in other ways (life from loam for example). Basically if there is room for it after you add all the card draw that synergizes with your deck theme then you add it, that shouldn't happen all that often though for Solemn, he is not as unplayable in 2022 as people would have you believe but he isn't an auto-include anymore. Totally agree with Seth on this one, there are decks that want him and they really want him and there are decks where he's just ok. The main problem with solemn is he is rarely BAD, you are never unhappy to see him so even though you could replace him with a card that would be better for your deck he never really makes you think i wish this were something else, even though nine times out of ten replacing him with a 2 mana ramp spell is more efficient if you don't have some way to abuse his ETB or recur him. The TLDR is he is perfectly fine but if you are optimizing your decks he should usually end up on the chopping block

Wheel of fortune is my favorite card in all of magic. The amount of times I've just caused chaos with it by casting it on the very first turn with a mana crypt just to make my opponents "mulligan" one more time is beyond hilarious.

Harmonize is the best green draw spell. Sometimes you just need to draw a few cards to get your other green draw spells going again.

Tomer!!!!! you're not alone with hating shuffling. I also have small hands and trying to shuffle a commander deck is pain.

I like solemn a lot. I play it in decks with creature recursion, blink or artifact themes. I think it goes well in a lot of decks but I no longer think it's an auto include unless you can get extra value from it

I will say Mystic Remora does work in muldrotha, where you can just keep the cost at 1, sac it instead of upkeep2, recast with muldrotha for 1u

I have been there, an opponent plays a Solemn, and no one attacks into it, it was so absurd that I started to play it and it worked!! #facts I only play it in my mono black list because is a way to feed the cabal coffers, outside of that I usually find better options in other colors.

Ive stopped including solemn because i felt like spending 4 mana on a rampant growth with tiny extra while my opponent cast a smothering tithe or a bomb since he ramped earlier

I agree with Seth 100%: the more I play, the fewer tutors I run.

I started playing "voice of many" instead of harmonize in my low curve green decks. I underrated it heavily in the past, but its a beast of a card in green.

Just started watching this channel, love how everyone has different opinions. Makes for a very interesting conversation.

For me, it's rhystic study. 1) My decks are more focused on synergy so "good stuff" cards are getting replaced. 2) Its really good at what it does, which makes me the obvious target. 3) I have a three-card sideboard for rule-0 and rhystic sat there for so long, I replaced it. 4) It gets exhausting. I could play two games or one when I run rhystic study.

1:05:50 Solemn is pretty solid. A-Tier card. Also if you run Sword of Hearth and Home, ABSOLUTELY run Solemn *just in case* you manage to get both on the board. PS: deck I put Solemn in; - Oketra the True - Reaper King - Yarok - Alela - Jodah - Osgir - Atemsis

everyone: you can't play wheel of fortune seth its too expensive seth: they dont know what theyre talking about, 3 mana is a fantastic rate

The intro could have been an edited version of "We don't talk anymore" to cards "we don't play anymore" :D

I just built my first commander deck and I have so many of these cards in it 😂 even thaumatic compass LOL

I love how Richard thinks there are only 2 draw spells in Black, when there are more like 20. Same goes for just about every color.

i would love to see the old school commander clash episode where every body has to build a deck with the cards they used in the beginning and see all the complaining about how the decks are that are only compose of cards the crew saw as good during that time.

52:50 I love this moment where Tomer is shaking his head in disgust while Seth is nodding in agreement :)

Solemn is fantastic let me kind of break down my thought process. Salem is assembly rampant growth and elvish visionary stapled together. And with its cost of 4CMC you pay the exact same rate as you would for seeing those two spells individually so you gain the benefit of having two in one. Comparatively you get the benefits of it being colorless so it can go in decks that aren't just green but it also doesn't require any colored mana so no matter what for pips you have on the table you can cast solemn and get the color you're missing to keep pace with the rest of the table. Additionally it has all the benefits of the creature type for example jump blocker sacrifice fodder planes walk hanger aristocrats fodder etc. In 2022 we can look at just what's printed on the card and whether it's good or not or efficient or not we have to reasonably gauge what that's going to be in and it's doing the job of ramp and fixing in addition to card draw and any synergies with the creature subtype. And that doesn't even mention the other applicable center to this can have with ETB flickering the artifact super type. Solemn does a little bit of everything in a colorless package that is on equivalent CC to comparable cards.

I wish Phil was on these conversations.

So I think bounce lands have increased in value ever since MDFCs came out. You played your MDFC land on turn two and you are running out of gas on turn seven…then you draw a bounce land! Return the MDFC land to your hand.

I absolutely agree with the statement on tutors in edh. They feel like they do against the idea of the format. That being said: I opened a Japanese Mystical Archive Demonic Tutor and like hell am I not gonna play that beauty!

Solemn is great, 4 mana for a 2/2 body, ramp, enter effect, and replaces itself. Its so good and a great budget card too.

Seth's reaction to wheel of fortune was hilarious.

I just wanna say that i really like the mtggoldfish podcasts (yes both commander and the weekly main). This episode was a unexpected gift! I really hope the commander podcast become a weekly thing instead of 2 a month. I love the arguing and the debating! It really gives more insight behind the decisions of the crew. Please more podcasts!!! :)

I was so hyped for a second i thought we were finally getting the scoops sippy cup. oh well.

If you like [[thumatic compass]] for land fixing, consider [[realmbreaker, the invasion tree]] instead. It's more efficient at 2 to activate. It also puts the land on the battlefield, so it's not just fixing, it's ramp. --And you might not get a maze out of it, but it never hurts to throw a few praetors in your deck. ;)

Richard is right that green has no unconditional card draw outside of Harmonize (and Sylvan Library) but he's wrong that 4 mana draw 3 makes the cut.

Solemn ramps, color fixes, adds to your board presence, replaces itself, and shuffels away a brainstorm. Considering ramp is the #1 thing you should be doing in commander it's about as good as it gets.

I love how Tunnel Vision used to be a Crim thing. I remember people on Magic Online used to love that card. Then Rise of the Eldrazi happened!

We definitely need a commander clash highlights short of Seth bidding all his life to wheel of misfortune.

Fun video idea: Maybe a podcast reviewing your CC moments as a group. PS: S4, E26 REALLY deserves a CC moment. That ending.

Thanks for another great podcast episode! Really look forward to the weekly commander clash and podcast episodes!

The main problem with Solemn is you dont want to be ramping 1 mana on turn 4 and waiting possibly 3 turn just to draw a card. When you can cast your commander or actual set up for you game plan. I'd rather play a thaumatic compass.

I think the show land are still decent in my opinion but for two color deck only because two color I run more basic so it's easier to come untap. I don't put the any scry land any of my two color deck because they always always come tap so it's really ruins my tempo unless it's a budget I would run them

I feel like Solemn Simulacrum is in the middle of where you all placed it with a slight tilt towards being a staple. I don't put it in every deck but most decks outside of CEDH, spellslinger, and non-landfall green decks benefit from it. Like at this point the "top 10 Commander cards" are a bunch of mana rocks, things that cost 100's or 1000's, and cards designed for the format. This probably doesn't even hit the top 25 maybe even 50.

One of my favorite commander plays was copying someone else’s decree of pain with dual caster mage and drawing 17 cards.

For me, I stopped playing taplands. I would rather play basics than be a turn behind. I am with Richard in Temples and Vivids. And I am with Seth, I no longer have tutors, except in a single cEDH deck that is only played to win, and not for fun. My other 30+ decks are more fun without them.

I love solemn in most non green decks, he literally synergizes with half the deck themes, artifacts, death triggers, blink, panharmonicon , creatures

I cut solemn from my blink decks bc white just ramps so much better with cards like “Knight of the White Orchard” as it brings in any plains card and it comes in untapped for 2 less mana (more color intensive yes). I’ve purposely held back playing a land, played Knight/Orchid, blinked it, then played the land and matched the green deck, then immediately passed them on lands.

Fun fact if you say Mindslaver someone and exile their commander you can opt to leave it exiled as you control that players turn thus permanently getting rid of a commander unless they Mirror of Fate. Just saying something that Crim would love

IMO Tomer needs to take over playing seth's Budget Magic decks until he learns what Snarls feel like

A point that I think was missed is you can run snarls and any land that has a basic land type, you don't have to run basics for the snarls.

As far as tutors, do you run Recruiters? Trinket Mage? Crop Rotation or Sylvan Scrying? *** As far as Temples, I run them in one 3-color deck, Aminatou and two 2-color decks: Boros and Minna and Denn (I can bounce it and replay it if I’m running out of gas).

Richard start playing True Conviction again!

The fact that solemn gets a land is huge. Also most commander decks are Sacrifice/graveyard, Artifact, Blink. Even in spellslingers it gives you a blocker against early aggro.

Solemn is solid B for building around. Either blink, artifact or reanimation to take advantage multiple times. Playing him once is not worth 4 mana.

Temples are good to play turn 1 in lower power where decks often play nothing. While temples can interfere with two and three mana plays they also speed up getting the next land after you play out the ones in your hand. They are kind of like less risky bounce lands that way. Temples like cycling lands also help with drawing too many lands in the mid to late game in lower power games.

I agree with Richard, Harmonize is underrated. Not because people don't play it enough, but because they don't know why its so good. Is the only unconditional card draw in green that works at any stage of the game and at any situation. It was first printed in Planar Chaos as a color break, and there will never be a card like this in green. 10 years ago it was considered a "cheat" for green to have this card, and think that is the correct description even today. I just think people have forgotten about that.

im with crim with these, solemn is good only if u can benefit by his etb (non green) or sac him or some artifact thing, so mostly red black and blue. Also those bad tap lands seem good if the hole table runs it, but the moment u play it in a group that dont use those is like u r 2 turns behind, so no tap bad lands Harmonize, since when green needs to spend 4 mana sorcery speed to draw cards, so BAD u can draw so much more with so many cards (creature's power, etb or casting), Harmonize has been a bad card for like 5 years.

Down with Richard, DOWN! :P Saff is absolutely right. Even with jank decks, I'd still rather minimise tutor, especially so, with the "search-anythings".

I just came to say that I play Zof Consumption in 2 decks: Yuriko and Gilanra/Vial Smasher. The high MV makes it work there!

Something possible for the future, maybe? Would love to see at least a brief pop-up somewhere of the cards you mention alongside the one on screen? I usually know what most of the cards do, as I assume most will, but it would be a great reminder to have them pop-up. As always, quality content. Has me making a few cuts from my main EDH deck ;) Thanks guys!

I think the fact that Harmonize doesn't synergize with most things green is trying to do, it gets the cut even though it's a good card on its own.

46:30 - I always put either Strip Mine, Wasteland, or both in my decks because there are so many land-based wincons and nobody runs land destruction because "sOciAL cOnTrAcT" which means that the Field of the Dead player just gets a free win once it comes out. It's also my default target when an opponent plays Tempt With Discovery, because then if they _do_ find one of the wincon lands, I can just destroy it immediately.

I think Richard has issued a challenge to Seth to strip mine his dowsing daggers and bounce lands XD

I prefer to play the mana rocks over land ramp because I'm the one blowing up the lands

I play Solemn Similacrum in my Olivia Crimson Bride deck, lots of ways to cast it and cheat it back from the graveyard, perpetually getting lands and card draw, it puts in work!

I run solemn in any non-green deck unless there's an outstanding reason why (I don't run it in my Prosper deck because Prosper is also four mana and he ramps by himself the turn after). I think people kind of underrate just having creatures on the board. Also I tend to run decks that get me attacked and its ramp and a blocker in one lol.

At 4 mana, I want my deck to be doing something important towards doing it's thing. Solem does all the good stuff the crew mentions, but if ramping & putting an artifact dude isn't inline with my plan on turn 3 or 4, then it's kinda just filler. It could be doing a better thing towards what I want the deck to be doing. Also, over time, I've moved to favor fun cards over efficient cards. Solem's kinda boring unless it has synergy with your deck.

Wholeheartedly agree about tutors. I still play some tutors like open the armory specifically for my voltrons, but still the point of the format is the unpredictability

Every time I watch one of these videos I am amazed how different they are playing the format than me and my friends do. Not playing Mystic Remora, Strip Mine and Vampiric Tutor sound just crazy to me.

I’m glad you guys didn’t try to shoehorn in the word tier list in the title. I get that it helps with clicks, but it’s nice to see something different from time to time.

No solemn in green deck for sure. In non-green decks, If I can abuse his ramp/draw part (for example, in a reanimator deck, in a sacrifice deck, in a blink deck, etc.) I will put it in. But if not, its too late to ramp. I prefer running a lot of 2-mana mana rocks, even if they are more susceptible to be blown up, because it let me play more spells and do more stuff during an average game of magic, and let me play my commander even faster than if I was ramping with a solemn. Plus, it doesn't give you mana rightaway, as for a 2-mana mana rock, you can use it rightaway in late-game.

i loved when the crew's soul collectively left them during the Zof Consumption talk

I feel like wotc will print another "secret rendezvous" that draws you and your opponent 4 cards for 4 mana, Richard will say something like "it's better than harmonize, return of the wildspeaker, necropotence etc." and then you all will buy him straitjacket and send to Arkham Asylum.

Coming over from the Podcast to respond to Richard on Sad Robot. I'm mostly with Seth and Crim. I think Solemn Simulacrum is still a very solid card but doesn't make sense in every deck. To Richard's credit, ramp is one of the strongest things you can do. However Solemn probably makes it in exactly non green Mono color decks, in Grixis colors decks, artifact decks, blink decks, and Panharmonicon style decks. This doesn't sell Solemn short. That's a wide variety of decks. It simply doesn't make the cut in most decks (not all) that have green, and nothing 4C+. Soooo it makes it in most decks. Now, of those most decks that it can make it, should you always run it? Hmmm. Probably not. That's a little dogmatic imo. But would Solemn feel bad in those most decks? Also probably not. Solemn almost always gets you 2 cards for 1, 1 of which is ramp. That should NEVER be sold short.

Sad robot is a B+ to A-. 4 mana is a lot

Field of ruin is definitely the best edh ld, and strip line for cedh when mana curve is so low it doesn’t matter. Vesuva is unplayable imo as the floor is a tapped basic land and the upside is very volatile. Also snarls are definitely highly playable, i agree with tomer; so many budget options and running enough basics is definitely key. I also agree tutors in casual along with fast mana is just a detriment to the format, hence cedh needs to be a separate format. Tutoring does feel bad and shouldn’t be in decks under a power 8.

Solemn can really only fit in 1 or maybe color decks that don’t have green. Once you’re playing three colors the talisman’s signets, and sol ring et Alia just out pace the card. You basically never want to ramp on 4 as it’s usually not doing enough to advance your board state.