As you asked, I bought the predecessor of this model in the UK a year ago. I twas £7000 less than the model 3 and was a hatchback, which made it better for me than a sedan. Yes it’s a basic and flawed vehicle compared to a model 3, but a car is just a transportation system for me. Mine has been totally faultless over 12 months of use, it’s quiet, comfortable and easy to use. Are there better cars out there now, hell yes. Will I be charging mine, no. It’s fine for my use case.

People need to understand that the future of mobility still needs basic econoboxes. It's true. I've been poor, when you are you don't have time or mental space for inspiration, you just need transportation. We need more basic ass vehicles and we need them cheaper. This is still too much but it's a step in the right direction.

18:55 - Independent rear suspension definitely isn't "as basic as it gets" lol.. :D There are still cars manufactured with a torsion bar!

Such a great presentation with the calming voices and detail, as always, is great.

You guys are fantastic. Real engineering-level analysis that doesn't condescend or dumb down. You also tell it like is, even if it hurts someone's feelings a little, like that kink in that line.

By the way Cory and Jordan, good of you to look at affordable EVs too. Merry Christmas to Muro & associates.

14:55 Replacing an entire pack due to a failed contactor or fuse is _insane_ . I hope you don’t actually suggest that to your clients because that is an incredibly bad idea. Regarding the cost of the suspension components, I think it depends on the cost of the vehicle. As far as EVs go, this isn’t a terribly expensive vehicle. Rivian R1 vehicles are twice as expensive as this and advertised as off-road capable as well as a “performance truck/SUV”, so it is expected to be built with a more capable suspension system. It’s also 3000lbs heavier with about 4x as much horsepower as this, so it needs the expensive brakes. The Kia is a lower cost, on-road “basic” vehicle, so it doesn’t need expensive, long-travel air suspension and 6-piston brakes like the Rivian does.

Smaller single brake piston but it's doing most of its braking regeneratively. Might not be the flashiest car but it's a smash hit with families in the UK and Europe for storage, range, efficiency, trim level value for money, commuting and road trips.

Bought a 2022 Niro EV last January. I love the car, do all the undercarriage components prevent me from buying one, no. Sandy did a great walk-through, very educational, just like all your shows. For all the info, it is a reasonably priced well built car. Do I need super speed, no, in fact, who does. All the super performance cars being sold are really very silly. Just like 4 wheel drive for people who live in Florida etc. you don’t need it, but people buy stuff they don’t need all the time. The Niro has a sport mode which makes it “fast” if I feel the need for speed. But where I live (New England), do I need stupid performance, no. I own an EV for economical reasons (and so I can avoid big oil). So as a middle aged man, I say more power to Kia/Hyundai, build quality and keep the costs low. Also, side note. I was in London in September. I never saw so many Kia Niro EVs. Not sure if the were some sort of Uber fleet, but apparently the Brits like them.

Nice catch on that kinked hose, theres so many little gothca when building a car. Also shout out to Detroit Denim in Detroit and Dearborn Denim in Chicago for soucing and making jeans here in the US.

Thanks for reviewing a more affordable EV. I’ve got one of these on order for May delivery. I’m not super excited about it but I’ll be happy not to take my BMW 3-series ICE in for repair every three months.

Nice catch with that kinked hose, future recall maybe?

Horses for courses. Bought my wife a 2021 Hyundai Ioniq EV sedan which is definitely at the lower end of EVs- 170 mile range, based on an ICE platform. It is, in a word, a great car. Super efficient, power and handling good enough, whisper quiet, and very comfortable. Would buy one as my daily driver- probably not as I'd prefer some more power and better handling..

I am curious why using the simple single piston disc brake is a problem on the Niro EV when regenerative braking is doing the bulk of the work? I seem to remember Sandy commenting on this when he discovered that the VW ID4 used drum brakes in the rear.

Hey Cory, your viewers are noticing the significant weight loss, keep up the great work!

a lot of the OEM EV's remind me of engineering class where you are given a bag of K'nex pieces and you have to move an object from point A to B. If you could create parts then it could be done super efficiently, but because you're forced to use specific parts in the bag of K'nex, you end up with something that, albeit working, is a convoluted mess of inefficiencies. Great video, love the details!

12:00 THANKS SO MUCH FVOR REVIEW!!! Battery bottom side Very susceptible to damage, especially the cooling channels. Debris hit to that bottom skin and the water channels could be damaged and ruin the battery or at least cooling capacity.

Thank you for the video & information! Have a happy new year! 🎉🎉

Nice review, it is impressive your knowledge of car components. If I owned a car manufacturer I would send every pre-production car to your house for review. Thus preventing future service issues.

12:00 thanks for Battery review. Bottom Pan if coolant running in that pan area in it will be VERY difficult to thermally control, WINTER TIME would be incredibly difficult to warm up batteries with that huge surface exposed to weather.

Happy to see that you look at afordable EVs as well :). Regarding your question. I do not care. as long as it is safe and will not rust after 5 years I do not care :)

That's a big empty space for critter/foreign material to accumulate. Not the mention space that could've utilized for other components or a better internal storage area.

I love the concept of serviceable BMS, contactors, and fusing. Anything to prevent that pack from needing replaced which is the fear of any EV Owner and anyone who is a critic of EVs it is one of the first detractors they bring up, that replacing the $15,000 battery will total the car when it gets older well before it would die if a gasoline engine car. I don’t agree, but I have had to endure that lame argument from many people.

Thanks for another great video. I just want the suspension to give me a comfortable ride. This is my complaint on my model Y.

🧐16:45 What’s that being BLURRED OUT over Jordan’s left shoulder?!?! (The designs for Santa’s all-electric sleigh?🤪)

Munro Live, School of EV, Very Clear instructions from Cory & Jordan

THANKS CORY ,…for the warning ⚠️ 😂 THANKS JORDAN,ERIC AND THE REST OF THE MUNRO TEAM 🤗💚💚💚

5:20 if you ever tried to deal with 10+ years old plastic quick connects, you would definitely want the car industry to stop moving toward disposable products.

The strange Screwheads are special for automated installation for Flowdrill Screws. For instance from EJOT

So far as the kinked hose goes, the short end, where the kink is, is too long. Cut an inch off it. loosen the far end to enable an element of rotation, and refit. Then ensure good clamp sealing either end. I agree that hard-hoses are 'better', but my experience at the coal-face in car repairs and also durability testing, tells me they have a higher catastrophic failure rate than soft hoses. They suffer from environmental degradation and temperature degradation. They also disintegrate when removed in older vehicles that need repairs, and are usually unobtainable by then. Part of the logic behind EVs is their longevity and lesser need for replacement, which counteracts all the reasons for these click-to-fit designs. O-rings are notorious for hardening and giving up the ghost long before a soft hose with a 'jubilee' clip ever does. There are cars from the seventies still around with their original rubber hoses, driving around without problems. While I agree that manufacturing economy is also critical, some deep thought needs applying to these remote component interconnections. Universal sealing and gasketry is the best by far for longevity, even now. I still struggle to understand why a manufacturer with a blank sheet of paper, even with basic off-the-shelf components they add bracketry to, don't design them to connect directly to the motor assembly. Compressors, heat exchangers, pumps, even radiators, can safely be attached without remote connections. Caste you mind back to the tiny Citroen 2CV, a flat-twin air-cooled economy car from post-war to the eighties. It had an oil cooler attached solidly to the crank case. Whilst leakage did occur occasionally, it isn't a known weal spot on these durable power-plants, and they vibrate like a road roller. Oh well, enough from me for the time being.

It would be useful if you talked about how to service/ fix vehicles in your design analysis. cost savings in manufacturing versus cost of owning a vehicle 10 to 15 years. It would be interesting and helpful if you could do some analysis on long time durability and fix ability.😊

I assume Cory and Jordan recognised that this is a completely different design from the old model. The motor is now an internally "wet" design and fully integrated with the GRU input shaft as with most newer EVs, running ATF instead of 70W. That will hopefully eliminate motor bearing spin and GRU noise problems that have affected the original Niro and Kona. I'm unsure why they were saying that the IRS is "cheap" when clearly that title belongs to the twist beam used in the Bolt and Leaf, which thankfully wouldn't fit as they noted. Isn't the entire point of Munro to help manufacturers reduce cost so don't moan when they do it. The kinked hose was a sloppy and embarrassing defect for a Kia but a good catch. About the battery underside, it looks like that's the cooling system. Kia diverge from Hyundai in not using a low-conductivity coolant. Perhaps placing the cooling on the outside of the pack structure reduces the risk of coolant incursion?

Excellent review and comments!

Those shafts from the motor to the wheels had not the same lenght. The new ones are still diferent lenghtwise?

Please purchase some mid price green laser pointers for your videos. Slightly de-focus the lens (some disassembly required) so it produces a 1 cm dot at 1 meter. You're not pointing at an overhead projector screen from the '80's.

Great job !!

10:10 internal splines are the best choise also beacause they are much harder to damage whilte toquing in or out especially after bolt heads' got some rust damage.

Great smugglers box above that battery.

I think this kind of architecture is needed. People in Third world countries cannot transition to an EV world yet. So companies will still need to make ICE vehicles until EVs are as cheap as an ICE compact vehicle

16:46 I wonder what was hidden behind those pixelling?

69 watt hours per pound in a 420kg battery pack, nice

Great analysis and would be nice to hear how you'd compare these design decisions, material, clamps, connects, routings, sub-assemblies, build quality, manufacture complexities and line assembly time...etc to other cars in it's price range that it competes with. Maybe a summary chart with a scoring system of some kind? What this vehicle looks like to me is EV engineering that is forced into very poor constraints by a legacy chassis. More parts, more failure points, more exposure to elements, less rigidity leading to less longevity, odd material choices due to unknown constraints, extra weight for unknown reasons...etc

At the end a the day you always do great content.

Thank you!

I wish I was able to express the technical topics with such ease.

Wow they just helped this automaker with their first recall for this vehicle with that kinked hose!

Driving in winter salt I find the aluminum suspension components do not corrode or rust like the steel ones. My 2017 Model s which only has steel upper controls arms, struts and shocks I'm constantly undercoating these peices to keep the rust at bay.

I've seen this torque reaction coupling before (lower connection of motor to frame in the middle) but is it meant to be in tension or compression under drive torque? I ask because my mind says it is under tension when the front wheels are being driven. The axle turning forward would want to turn the motor backward (if it were free) and need a connection to resist that turn...no?

I like how they painted the CV joints. Never seen that before.

How do you think the vehicle will be good in a canadian winter with snow? The battery is lower than the front. There is an empty space at the back above the battery, is it closed by a cover? Are the cables (not the charging ones) of the battery protected? Thanks!

On the need of fancy, nice suspension or the "quick 'n easy" way ... use case, as usual, tends to dictate. Doing some high performance driving or off roading .. you get one answer. Just doing "daily stuff" brings in other potential answers.

Love this kind of video content from Munro Live. You show use the vehicle in a way we cannot see when going to buy it. I get to hear the good, bad, the ?? did they do that for. We hear that this vehicle is not something engineers would choose (as a 1st choice) after a walk under, when compared to other makers. That helps out a lot. Normal buyers would have no idea about it. Possible issues with kink hoses, that's not a good sign. Meh suspension but build well all things considered. Wasted space due to platform. Not the best design for aerodynamics (but acceptable) and possibility for water intrusion. Overall, it's not a total loss and does show improvement as you said. Buying that for 44k...um no. For 39k...umm still a no. That is what we as viewers need to know. Thank you for helping us become more informed towards vehicle purchases.

Pretty soon we will be back at 4 wheel drums.

cooling hose is able to disconnect for maintenance...clever, not a mistake

Happy new year

If you’re paying less then $25K then this would be expected but not at this price point.

Can’t wait for you guys to do similar reviews on the Chinese built EVs (if the US opens its doors to have them imported there) … the MG4 by MG is receiving lots of good reviews for quality and price, but how good really is it? when checked by the experts in Munro … now that’s what I want to see

So with the gap from the body to the battery being so large, could they not pull the battery in tighter and allow for more clearance?

I don’t look for “rock crawling in Moab” suspension, but do look for good handling sports car suspension vs. low cost when buying an EV. However, I would think there is a great market for low cost suspension like shown in the Kia Niro.

Can you get access to Tesla's virtual crash analysis program that lets them predict crash performance and other competitors programs?

I switched from a Ford Focus with twist-arm + 3 link suspension to a VW Jetta twist beam and back to the multi-link on my 2022 Niro. The VW performance around curves was garbage and much less predictable.

Great insight

Perhaps an additional mention of the purchasing issues from Hyundai/Kia dealers merits attention as they seem to be tacking on $ thousands above the MSRP.

Really interesting thanks

I just drove this yesterday and it's very nice to drive. My Mother's 2012 Elantra has I-beam rear and it jumps around over bumps and is awful. the Niro has IRS at least, and as far as cheap it's still a $43K can vs the ICE $30K same spec car. Where is the $13K extra going in cost? Seems to me lifelong ICE service cost is packed, in upfront, into KIA EVs sale price. ICE components vs EV component cost makes a $13K difference? I can't believe that!

sandy and fam merry xmas !!!

To answer Cory's question, I primarily care that the range is good at 285m and the price is OK too. I take the point about packaging and wasted space under the rear seats - perhaps a larger battery can go there over time.

I was just wondering - did anyone ask about the heavy truck repair mechanics about the inner torx bolts? I kind of remember watching a british guy Chris Allen struggle with those...

Is there a belly pan that you took off to see the structure?

19:00 Danke for review! Rear suspension is 'Thrifty', but worlds better than POS twist beam garbage. Loads of wasted space under rear seat area. Could have been used for some sort of Cubby storage.

15::03 A blown fuse, you say?🤔Why stop at the pack? Just replace the whole vehicle! After all, it's more profitable!🤑 /s

So is the whole bottom of the motor/transmission exposed to the road?

Im not an enginer but is it possible to pack a second row battery cells above the first one if there is free space?

Being an EV, that Disc Brake is not used that much, so I’m not sure having tremendous brakes is really that necessary. After all, these vehicles have regenerative braking that allows the energy to recharge the battery! However when the battery is totally charged, regenerative braking is not possible, as you can’t charge into a saturated with charge lithium battery , so you have to have fully working friction brake!

What are the two thin metal brackets hanging over the rear end of the battery for?

It's still repurposed, rejiggered - not designed from the bottom up as a software platform that self-tests throughout the assembly process incorporating maximum hardware, whole system software, sensors, cameras, etc. In other words, non-Teslas are ill-conceived half measures stalling for time while their ICE vehicles' demand continues to drop. Per Tony Seba, as an automobile is not just a faster horse, a disruptive technology EV is not just an legacy automobile stuffed with batteries and motors.

Amazing how Kia/Hyundai produced so many EV’s so fast vs the competition

Sorry, your $150 contactor failed, but good news (for us), you get to replace the entire $15,000 battery because we made it non-serviceable. No - that's a horrible design. Serviceability is key if you want to win ICE customers.

Performance matters, Porsche uses like 6 pistons, Audi RS almost, maybe 4 it matters to have a car stop as good or better than it goes...cheap brake components is not good, ever

Call up a Kia or Hyundai dealership and ask how many motors they send back to Korea a week

Yes! We want the suspension components to NOT be the "lowest" cost. EVs are heavy, and expensive, so we would like to see components that will last.

That battery leading edge is bad. Didn’t Kia do almost the same thing in the previous iteration? Exposed LV wires, not good!

You can feel the difference when driving a car with a cheap suspension vs high grade components. Not necessarily for off roading but certainly the feel behind the wheel.

Suspension expectations depend on the purpose of the vehicle we buy it for. The current and only car serves as a family car. It's a Tesla MS (although I will never buy or recommend any other Tesla anymore due to very bad customer treatment and very poor service quality). Because it sits quite low, it's sometimes very helpful to be able to raise the suspension - would it be higher, I wouldn't care about it at all. The next car I fancy is the Rivian R1T (once it will be available in Europe): again, this would server a special purpose which is to be the family adventure car (with roof tents etc). For being able to do the job, the suspension needs to cover what it does now. By then, we'll most probably have anoter EV to get around on a daily base, to do the groceries, etc. This can be a not so spacious car with whatever suspension, just to get around. So: it depends on the purpose for us (to answer your question).

23:30 short answer: no, i would prefer simple suspenion setup but modern (still simple) propulsion. You don't need all this disposable aluminium in suspension to make a car feel great. E46 had most arms stamped steel, E36 had all stamped steel, all japanese 90s sport classics had stamped steel, GR86 in 2023 still has all-steel rear. My 2001 w210 had all-steel suspension and its' ride felt more expensive compairing to my 2015 w212. I was disguested by BMW's F30/F32, I driven couple of them (in extremely good and worse condition but all with 90+ thousand kilometers) and the steering and ride feel was slightly better or the same as Renault Clio with 100+ thousands (I've driven dozens of them). Fine tuning, good tires and right layout is the key, not the expensive tech that tries to hide all that marketing bullshit that affected layout and basement of car's performance.

To answer your question about "do I care" about this being a simple rear suspension construction method: emphatically no. So far I have not been able to afford an electric car, no matter how much I want one. The space I have is also too small for most EVs, including the Niro. I recognise that the smaller cars that are coming will be cheaper, and it is unreasonable to expect the sort of construction to be found, and needed, in vehicles like the Rivian or Tesla Y.

What would be their first pick in the under 50K price range?

Was that an unprotected electrical connector, pins and wires exposed, at the front of the battery pack? If so guaranteed to collect water and dirt - which don't mix well with electricity 😄

What would be your favorite EV to purchase now? Less expensive vehicle?

Saw the “wasted space”, am I the only one that thought you could put a great sub woofer in there?

4:00 please tell me, why do they use coolant oil?

Do you guys plan on reviewing the Hybrid version of the Niro?

In order to accomplish mass adoption, common suspensions will be necessary even if high brow Munro drivers would never want to drive them. I grew up on Dodge Darts and Plymouth Dusters (rwd) not that FWD, four cylinder Go Cart Dodge made that defiled the Dodge Dart name. I’d love to see a revival of the Front Torsion Bar Suspension and rear Leaf String Suspension, so that all you have to do is use an air impact gun to screw in a bolt, at the torsion bar end on each side, to raise a sagging suspension!

So am I understanding the void you pointed out, and referenced that other not specific to EVs bodies, is common? If so, that would make these cars great smugglers' cars, no? You can even get elaborate, close off ready access, with some clever removal sealable process to open at will, add a vacuum & you can get what you want in there, and through the transmission tunnel, in product. Odd thought. I know. Yet someone is going to work that out & Law Enforcement ought be alerted to the potential. As always, you do a great job. Thanks for helping make engineering cool again.

well, look@ that? Hmm...a front & rear stamp frame, bolted 2 the body! such a cool design, for a hot product! woohoo! good night! I could stick a 55 gal drum in there! good luck every1 !!

23:39 yes, I want travel and clearance

I want a low cost EV that I can afford, so basic components are fine.

Good!!!

.............00000000001 % of the public go rock crawling in the Moab!!!

I want them to last. No matter the price. I mean, sometimes You can screw even expensive components into unhealthy build.