Not sure why they are making all of these other films when we still have not had a 200 millon dollar Spohr biopic.

I hope the Celibidache movie is played in the theaters at .5x speed and is 6 hours long. Y'know, for authenticity's sake. All jokes aside, I think you've hit on something I've only vaguely noticed: the pervasive use of classical music in media as a means by which to give the narrative a patina of artiness and sophistication. I had some interest in Tár when it came out, just because of the sort of relatability of the subject matter, but I realized that the story itself, separated from the glitzy classical music context, really isn’t that interesting or worthwhile. I suspect the same is true of Maestro.

Maestro is a significant achievement. It manages to be both trite and formulaic while also being unrelentingly bleak. The opposite of Bernstein himself. If you want to see a traditional Hollywood melodrama without the charm or humor then Maestro is the movie for you!

Go see the Celibidache film- it will be some of the best seven hours of your life!

Watched Tar last year and loved it - would definitely recommend it. Watched Maestro a few weeks ago and absolutely hated it, had so much potential that they squandered…

Tár was one of my favourite movies of 2022. I would recommend it wholeheartedly, even to people who have no knowledge of classical music. There are a few scenes in which there is a lot of slang, but otherwise anyone can follow it.

I wholeheartedly agree with your commentary, as usual. I have seen both Tar and Maestro. Tar was an interesting movie but the music had nothing to do with it. she could have been any person in power. Maestro was a typical movie that focuses on personal conflicts as if no one but celebrities has these kinds of issues. I really wish the public would stop obsessing over celebrities and their personal lives. They do a job and the job is entertainment. Anything else about them should be of no concern. Just like no one cares about my life and being run out of a concert band for playing bass trombone too loud.

If I want to see Leonard Bernstein conduct, I just watch the DVDs of Bernstein conducting Mahler and Beethoven symphonies with the Vienna Philharmonic...

Wondering if the Celibidache film will cover his misogynistic treatment of his female principal trombonist in Munich...Abbie Conant, a supreme player who won the position fair and square against many qualified auditionees. He decided a woman trombonist couldn't play Bruckner and sought to have her dismissed.

"Bruckner: the motion picture". I'm sure I'd be a smashing success 😂

"Taking their psychotherapy and putting it on the silver screen".......love it!

I felt that Maestro was an vanity trip, where the focus was how well he could imitate / impersonate Bernstein. Seeing the extended Mahler performance was a real orchestra, and much was made of how Cooper was taught how to conduct this passage. In my opinion, the people who think that are mistaking acting for conducting. Conductors have big enough egos, and it seems that biopics about big egos are often by even bigger egos. Waving your arms around in time to the music is not conducting, it's reacting, or faking, or dance - but it's madness to suggest that it is controlling the output of the players in any way. This is probably true for any movie about a person (real or imaginary) with a particular skill, but with music it is always held up as a musical gift of the actor. If an actor was portraying a skilled archer, no-one would think that they'd hallowed status in that sport.

I have no interest in Lenny’s sexuality. Little was said of his connection to Tanglewood and Koussevitzky, his political and social action, or his composing. Why must we spend two hours sneaking into his bedroom and listening to his private conversations with his wife?

As far as I'm concerned, you don't even have to convince me, because here again, I fully agree with your analysis, because my disinterest in this kind of film is as immense as yours. I would add that, in my opinion, the appearance of this kind of film about people who are, after all, only performers, is quite symptomatic of this era of staggering emptiness we are living through. Period. The fact that the music (which Mr. Bernstein was supposed to serve, and which, I believe, was the very center of his existence), takes a back seat to this kind of soap opera, illustrates the degree of cretinism today. As for a film about Celibidache's life, well, why not, given the point we've reached. Like you, I don't even feel CONCERNED by this kind of thing: let the people who find it interesting enjoy it, while trying to be lucid about what's essential.

So refreshing to hear a clear verdict on these films, the discussion around which is inevitably the most murky Slough of Despond

Fair enough i appreciate you being clear in what you are comfortable discussing. I enjoyed Tar and Maestro as films and its fair they are films first and music is part of it. Btw the columbo episode Etude in Black is a fabulous conductor murderer episoee with John Cassavetes

Leonard Bernstein’s lectures, including his Unanswered Question series, are great

We need a Norrington biopic with Dave as writer and director. I'd watch the crap outa' that !

Interesting about these superstars of classical music and their biopics...I remember something I read recently, some words from a pianist (I don't remember his name). He said: "I understand music as an offering and not as an exhibition."

On KZfaq, you can see a trailer for a new French film called 'Boléro' about Ravel. THE film seems, as far as I can tell from the trailer, to treat ' Boléro' as its central focus and seems to make the composition of this work the key event in Ravel's life

I thought Tinnitus Classics was branching into the film industry for a second. If Celibidache is taken, there's still room to make one about Solti.

At the start of Amadeus, Salieri "explains" a piece by Mozart to the priest who visits the asylum. Toward the end, Mozart "dictates" from his deathbed a short stretch of the Requiem to Salieri. To me these were spellbinding scenes, so much so that I wished the whole movie was nothing but that.

I think the same. Thank you Dave!

You're absolutely right, most of these "music" movies are really about who is boinking whom. I don't care one whit about that in a movie that is supposed to be "about" music.

I remember back in the early 60s watching a Walt Disney programme (extra "m" and an "e" for us Aussies still, Dave-sorry) in Black & White called the Life Of Peter Tchaikovsky. That one certainly hooked me onto a lifetime love of classical music. Incidentally, the film starred, inter alia, Leon Askin and John Banner who both later starred in "Hogan's Heroes". But hey, what do I know? I know nussink!

No one is talking about the elephant in the room: a biopic about Leopold Stokowski. Now that woukd be a film to sink your teeth into.

I agree with you - I also have 0 interest in them. However I do see value in bringing topic of music and musicians -even if incidental/marginal around the real main topics- as a ‘marketing tool’ for music. Even if only a handful of folks that have never heard Bernstein’s Mahler are enticed to pursue listening to real recordings after watching Maestro, for example, that’ll be a win for everyone.

If classical music is to be more widely appreciated then the medium of film is important. I can remember, as a kid, being taken to a fairly crass movie called “My Geisha” which had excerpts from Puccini’s Madama Butterfly. I was fascinated by this, not the movie, and it was an important factor in my quest to discover more about great music.

Well said Dave!

Sir, you are very wise.

This topic reminds me of the 1946 film, "Humoresque" with Joan Crawford, John Garfield and Oscar Levant. Crawford plays benefactress to a rising violinist played by Garfield. It's a fun watch if you're a fan of old Hollywood films, but is most notable for featuring Franz Waxman's Carmen Fantasy and his arrangement of music from Tristan und Isolde for violin, piano and orchestra. Isaac Stern played on the soundtrack, but there is a 1998 recording of music from the film, with Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg and the LSO under Andrew Litton on the Nonesuch label, worth hearing.

I do not like bio-pics - Maestro was nothing special. But I do like real documentaries. Film (video) of concerts are sometimes great. You can learn a lot by watching them. Tar was awful, as are most movies about classical musicians.

Not only do you have all of Bernstein's music, you also have that wonderful coffee table book of Bernstein photos, if it's not still blocking the air vent( can't see through the tam-tam)

Tar felt authentic in its depiction of the Berlin Phil, rehearsals, power structures- I felt I learnt something. Maestro - felt fake; and the music took 6th place (exactly as Dave predicted) and wasn't even used well cinematically. This KZfaq clip did make me wonder whether DH feels similarly about the ballet / opera CDs he reviews, i.e. no desire to purchase DVDs or go to an acted / danced performance?

The fact that conductors are the focus of film and tv episodes (followed by pianists) is kind of weird. And the fact that a good half of them are murderers in those portrayels. My favorites were John Cassavetes and Billy Connolly in their respective Columbo episodes. The latter was interesting because he composed scores for DePalma-like horror films, except he was letting his protege do the real work, while he really loved the Tchaikovskian mode of expression.

Tár is a lovely film and the best one of that year. It's fair to say the story would have worked without the classical music backdrop specifically - but it did need some kind of backdrop like that, because the classical world at its worst it's airless, self-important, and rather small, which are the kinds of niches people like the protagonist thrive in. To Tár's credit, it didn't get anything *wrong* about the classical world, though it perhaps only showed that world at its worst.

While I enjoyed "Maestro" and, as far as craft goes it is well done, I completely understand your opinion. And a valid one it is: the true legacy of whomever the film is about (let's say Bernstein, in this case) gets completely lost and is obscured by "other" topics, that may have little to nothing to do with the music.

For your information, Dave, the movie about Celibadache is called "The Yellow Tie", starring John Malkovich in the title role, and is directed by the conductor's son.

Well said!

Dave, just discovered that there's a Ravel biographical that will be out in March named Bolero...

They're not about the music at all...the movies kind of remind me of that old Gerald Moore anecdote. In a US hotel dining room very early the morning of a big recital in early 60s, he was distracted by the ghastly "Muzak". Asking the waitress if it could please be turned off: "So you're not a music lover, Sir"...

Just now catching up with this segment. I haven't seen Maestro, but a good friend who is a professional musician has and was disappointed for similar reasons as you articulated, Dave--it's not really about music, and music is what counts. From my limited experience watching movies about classical music and musicians, I can say confidently that Hollywood usually misses the point. The point being music. One of the worst films I have ever had to endure was "Shine." That one almost spoiled Rach 3 for me. And, worse still, we had to endure the embarrassment of poor Mr. Helfgott's attempts to rehabilitate his career after that atrocious biopic. On the other other hand, some Hollywood flicks about great composers have been pretty good, if a bit corny sometimes. I did enjoy "Immortal Beloved" about Beethoven's alleged affair with his brother's wife (totally speculative, but effectively portrayed). Well, back to my recordings. I will always be more a listener athan a viewer.

I saw "Maestro" and it was a bore. I read a biography on Lennie years ago and it was a bore. I think Lennie's personal life may have been fun for him, but I found it boring. The Lennie on stage making music was magic. Young people's concerts were magic. I will just remember him for the great music.

A great review once more

Celibidache movie? Mercy! I have some 'composer flicks' I enjoy: Riot at the Rite, Eroica, Copying Beethoven had some fun moments. You ever pay attention to those?

I'm not a visual type either, so I don't often watch movies. For relatively passive entertainment, I prefer to read books, listen to music, or drink booze. Every now and then, someone asks me if I have seen whatever the latest popular movie is, and they act surprised when I say I seldom watch movies and haven't seen one in a theater in more than ten years. As for music-related movies, I remember when Amadeus came out and people went nuts over it. It seems that some of the depictions in that movie were inaccurate, as would be expected, but it got a lot of people interested in Mozart and classical music in general, so some good came out of it.

I would suspect the Celibidache movie has great comic potential. Unintentional.

Hi Dave, great diatribe. I agree 100%. However: is there a music movie that you did enjoy? How about the Ken Russell movie, “Mahler”. I loved it. Weird movie though. How about “In search of Beethoven” ? I saw this at the cinema and had tears running down my face by the end.

Yeah, MAESTRO has been a gimpy gateway for some people. Initially, it generated some curiosity and conversation around me but---- It died out quickly. However, I did use the conversations to encourage people to watch Bernstein videos and, more importantly, I used the interactions to introduce people to Glenn Gould. It was odd how Bradley Cooper was trying to paint Lenny as some "punk rocker" and, if there was anyone who truly reflected a "punk rocker" personality in classic music, it's Mr. Gould. His being nuttier than squirrel poop sure makes generating curiosity easy. Nevertheless, we classical lovers often fail to take into consideration how some musical genres, such as classical and jazz, demand more attention and patience to find the musical "pay off". Even though the payoff is priceless, with the tech induced attention deficit disorder at pandemic levels in our society, it's going to take more than a film about LB being a switch hitter and his flamboyantly indulgent mannerisms as a conductor to generate any signficant interest in classical music. I did notice the Bernstein Mahler cycles did see a slight bump in sales at Amazon but they appear to have flat-lined quickly. However, I am sure a film about Celibidache is the panacea to our woes. Seriously, who greenlit this potential dumpster fire?!

What a movie about Aaron Copland one could make! The story about how American classical music evolved during his lifetime - Copland as a driving force..

My sentiments entirely, David. I made the mistake of purchasing the "Maestro" soundtrack, thinking it would be full of Bernstein magic As far as I'm concerned, the only high point in it is the "Candide" overture: the rest of it is a mess and often not especially well recorded.

whaa?? A movie (not just a documentary) about Celibidache? Just when I think life can't get any stranger. I will say that if these movies get more people to get exposed to classical music, like you said, all the better. Regardless, I think the way that most musicians look at these movies is to see them as comedies (granted some as black comedies). Seeing Cate Blanchett physically assault and beat down a conductor on stage at the opening of Mahler 5 in a concert is just absurd... and funny.

I have only seen one composer movie that I have enjoyed, "Song of Summer", Ken Russell's hour long account of the Delius/Fenby collaboration. The emphasis was on the the music and wasn't a pack of lies like "Amadeus" and similar classical music for the masses garbage.

Do you remember "Huberts Unfinished Symphony?

@windowtrimmer8211 0 seconds ago Both Tár and Maestro got so much wrong musically that I wasn’t sure I wanted to contemplate what either movie had to say dramatically.

The Celibidache biopic is co-written and directed by his son. Perhaps it will be more authentic....Or at least it will pretend to be.

I have watched many documentaries about composers and musicians, which are generally fascinating. And i do find the background to their lives interesting, but i wouldn't want to watch a film about them for fear that it can never never be accurate, there are some exceptions though. The wonderful ken russel films about elgar and delius, for example

Well quetsched! Allow me just one point of dissent: Bernstein was, indeed, lager than Life - Celi just slower than Death! 😂,

The only thing that's noteworthy about Maestro is he did sort of look and sound like the old Lenny. Thats about it. And hats.off to Bradley Cooper. He fought hard to make it. I wonder who will play Celi? Christian Bale? I hope there is music. Is there anything interesting about his private life.

How about a video of music related movies or TV series that you recommend.

I am D'ACCORD...I am indeed your opinion...I am ACTIVATED from HEARING, I go to concerts and I CLOSE MY EYES TO LISTEN NOT TO SEE...

The London Symphony Orchestra was used in the movie playing the last bit of Mahler's monumental 2nd Symphony subtitled The Resurrection Symphony. Mahler s music is absolutely Heavenly

Bruckner The Movie: "Hi, I'm a sixty year old virgin - oh good Lord, now I'm slightly famous - and now I'm dead - oh, and now they've gone and looted my house. Perfect."

Your shirt made me think of the Frank Zappa quote: “Ignorance has a certain charm. Stupidity does not.” I watched Tar, on an airplane, where I watch most movies. Didn’t like it. First of all, as an orchestral musician, I think anybody who conduct the orchestra and themselves in that way, would not have such a career, and a scene with a caricature of a woke student was just overdone. Not gonna watch any of the others, unless they’re the least terrible options on a plane. Thanks for talking, as always!

I’m looking at this entirely differently I guess. I see this as a gateway to bring a larger public into the world of classical music. I think it’s amazing to see a whole new generation introduced to the life and work of Leonard Bernstein - something I’ve always enjoyed!

These movies are about people and their relationships, and they happen to be musicians. So whether or not the music and the mechanics of making/playing music get it right, it’s not important. Compare with Hitchcock’s “McGuffin” joke.

The Celibidache movie (The Yellow Tie) promises to be even worse than it looks. The movie was directed and co-written by Serge Ioan Celebidachi... aka, the conductor's son. The Bernstein family's involvement with Maestro now seems like nothing compared to this. The movie is the director/son's very first film, it's a Hungarian production and it stars John Malkovich as Celi. Unlike Tar or Maestro, I somehow doubt this will be playing in a theatre near you. I think you're safe, Dave, from even accidentally wandering into the wrong theater and catching a few seconds of this.

Maestro is superb, but you need to accept its intentions: it wasn't conceived as a comprehensive biopic about Bernstein, nor is it about classical music. It's about his complex, troubled relationship with his wife (played amazingly by Carey Mulligan). It's emotionally gripping and moving. The production design and costuming are stellar, too: they obviously studied countless Bernstein pictures and album covers to get his looks over time right. And for that matter, the prosthetic work is some of the best I've seen. Another plus, this might be a lot of people's introduction to Mahler (which Cooper was actually conducting on screen--he wasn't faking it).

Dave, think CAPE FEAR. For you, is it: Herrmann's original recording from 62' or Elmer Bernstein's take from 91'. Also I've heard that Arnold Bax was a insatiable womanizer, they should make a bio pic about him, laying pipe everywhere.

Even though they tend to be very popular, biopics have always been one of my least favorite Hollywood movie genres. Because it's simply impossible to do justice to a person's entire life and career in a mere 2 hours, what you invariably end up with is a superficial caricature of the person.

Did anyone see that Delfina Potocka movie about Chopin? I don't know what to make of it and its multiple, blatant and clearly deliberate anachronisms (modern electrical lighting and CCTV cameras in the 1830s, etc). I expect the director was making a postmodernist point, or else was high off his ass.

Being about an istrionic conductor like Bernstein, I found Maestro surprisingly boring. I think Celibidache's flick has the chance of being both more inspiring and entertaining, which is to say a lot. Or maybe I am just nuts, who knows.

I thought Bradley Cooper did a good job acting in Maestro, but there was not as much music in the movie as I hoped. Tar was interesting, and it had a lot of references to real conductors which I enjoyed. You are right in saying that these films are too involved with these cultural ideologies.

A wise decision of yours David-wish I'd made the same, but unfortunately I've seen both Tár and Maestro. Neither had ANYTHING to do with music! In Tár, Cate Blanchett channels her inner Karajan in both facial expression and baton swing, but at least the "light thriller and tragedy" in the plot has an element of interest that kept me watching to the end. I couldn't last with Maestro, which was woeful. Bradley Cooper couldn't have been more self-indulgent in his acting and directing; the plot is one-dimensional and ultimately boring; but far worse: Bernstein's life was all about his love of music and sharing this with the world. In Maestro, this important element is entirely ignored, so the movie becomes an extended soap opera that is the very definition of incompetence.

Couldn't agree with you more. Dave. Simply not interested in all these films and the hype surrounding them. Just want to keep on listening, as you advise.

In short Dave trying to say he is a Classical Music RECORDINGS Reviewer, He will not say anything outside of this. But you do like it that's fine.

I could see a movie about Berlioz being worth watching. At least his early life, not when he got old, bitter and henpecked.

Musical-Industrial Complex. I think it's close to prostitution.

I haven't seen Tàr -- I'm not the Movie Guy -- but it seems largely concerned with the maestra's lack of comprehension of the music she conducts. Either that or the scriptwriters are trying to paper over THEIR lack of musical knowledge by making Tàr's opinions on music vague and generic...

I still remember NOT seeing "Wagner" (1983, with Richard Burton no less--for hours and hours and...).

You've expressed your dislike for videos of classical music performances - "Why would you want to watch that!?" - so I'm unsurprised that you wouldn't care about films where classical music is just the backdrop for a story.

Hurwitz is a very fine critic, but I do think he should refrain from reviewing things he hasn't seen.

The Celibidache movie better have a convincing CGI halo or the fans will be mad.

There was an episode of Columbo where the killer was a conductor played by Peter Falk's friends, John Cassavetes.

Good video! You touched on something i have found concerning classical music that i find mildly irritating. First off. As a lifelong member of the Bruckner cult,i resent the invasion by the celibidache fanatics who are far more aggressive then our normal Bruckner devotees. But that leads to what I have also noticed. Ive joined various Facebook group's, that follow Bruckner, mahler bach etc. You hit it on the head, theyr is this mythical worship of composers as greatee then human gods who can do no wrong, that everything they wrote is full of spiritual, mythical, philosophical significance. I realize, they have taken a fan boy stance to composers and conductors. Like you i admire great music, and the ones who perform and write it, but i do not give them spiritual or philosophical , fantastical reverence.

I've loved movies as long as I've loved music, and I quite agree. "Tar" and "Maestro" are about wee-wee issues. I have no interest in what LB did with his wee-wee. On the other hand, a movie about Celi (whom I like more than you do) sounds promising precisely because he was nuts. The intersection of art and madness is an interesting theme. At least it's not about wee-wees.

Did you see Amadeus, Dave?

For some reason this site keeps repeatedly loading my review. I've tried to delete excess versions and they keep popping up. If you read it earlier ignore the following. I saw Maestro via my home theater system. I wouldn't have paid to see it in a commercial movie theater. It was disappointing, although not entirely worthless. The best reason to see it is Carey Mulligan as Felicia: a multi-dimensional portrayal that draws you into the character's conflicted world, the only acting in the film that makes you care. Bradley Cooper? He's all technique here. Sometimes it's impressive: notice how his demeanor, and voice, change between the early scenes and the later ones. Otherwise he skates on the surface. By the end of the movie I felt like I knew less about Lenny Bernstein than I had known going in. As for drama, too much of the script is only interested in his homosexuality. The non-gay characters, including famous ones like Bruno Walter, slip in, do a quick spiel, and disappear. Maestro is over-directed by Cooper. He keeps calling attention to his work behind the camera -- strange camera placement and editing. It may be interesting, but it's not the same as connecting emotionally. I'll admit I was thrilled by the semi-climactic scene where Lenny is shown conducting the final pages of Mahler's "Resurrection" Symphony in a Gothic cathedral. That is, I was thrilled by the music ... not Bradley/Lenny's manic, posturing gestures which were over the top. Yes, yes, the real Lenny was wont to ham it up on the podium, but in the videos I've seen even he knew where to stop short of mad-scientist mugging. This picture could have brought Leonard Bernstein to life, but settled for being a high-class cartoon.

Yes, Dave... NO you should never review movies. If you started doing that I'd never visit your site again whereas, if you do not, I will continue to check on you almost daily! But, since I'm here and I have seen Maestro I will, succinctly as I can, say the problem with Maestro is that it is about very little of any interest. (see Dave you were right, it's not interesting). If an interesting movie were ever made about Bernstein, something interesting with dramatic potential it might have been about his early career. The drama of his jockeying his way into the NYPhil Music director job and his bad behavior regarding his friend and mentor Dimitri Mitropoulos. But I don't think Lenny's children would have liked that and honestly I can continue listening to his many great recordings without it. And I will continue to enjoy your chats and chatter which do matter to me.

A movie about real persons is just fiction. I prefer real fiction or real documentaries. Not that suspect mix.

I don't understand the hype surrounding Tar. It was one of the most boring and poorly made films I ever watched. The characters and story are completely uninteresting, and all the parts that directly deal with music and conducting were cringe. I regret wasting my time watching it until the end.

I saw BOTH Tar and Maestro. Both are NOT about classical music, and BOTH are unimpressive as films. BOTH are pretentious as hell. That's just my opinion.

The last (and probably only) great biopic on a composer was Amadeus. It had MUSIC as a central theme. Other movies have focused too much prurient/sick matters -- mental illness, sexual (dis)orientation, Nazism, etc. I know a guy -- a poser of "high taste" -- who kept telling me I had to watch Maestro. I told him I had no interest in a movie showboating his sexual proclivities and extreme behavior. Told him I'd rather listen to the primary source: Bernstein's recordings. He looked absolutely perplexed. Idiot. This is how you can tell a real music-lover from a pretender. I don't even know why there are these fakers in Classical Music. It's like someone who knows not a wit about wine (and hardly ever drinks it) going around talking about rare varietals and flavor notes. WTF??? I only got halfway through Tar. Such a self-conscious attempt at looking "brilliant' and Woke and artsy and Oscar-worthy. However...I am intrigued by the Celibidache film. (John Malkovich!) Plus it's not a conductor that readily comes to mind as a candidate for a Hollywood production. So I'm thinking someone with genuine musical taste is behind it. PS: Anyone else getting sick of Mahler being used in these films? I didn't realize his was the only music that mattered. Keeping my fingers crossed it won't happen with Celibidache!

Community. Maestro is a masterpiece. Recommend each one of you here to watch. Bradley cooper is just amazing. I loved the the movie. The scenes with Mahler 2 are very special.

I think the "Maestro" movie was made to make Jamie Bernstein feel better - to help her to rectify things in her mind, as she was loyal to both parents. It certainly wasn't for the audience out in the theater. As for "Tar", I refuse to even watch that. Mahler idiots actually believe both movies will increase the exposure and popularity of Mahler - like he needs any right now!

Tar is an exceptional movie that draws inspiration from Greek tragedies where the protagonist is doomed after surpassing their limits. Mahler's fifth symphony adds a unique perspective to that.

You’re better off not watching either “tar” or “maestro.” Beyond not really being about music, which you accurately say, but they are not particularly good films either. More PR than talent.

You’re right they’re both just awful