Former tanker and container ship deck officer. In that bad of a storm, it would be impossible to visually determine the bow was getting heavier. It would be hard to see the bow, let alone have a reference to visually determine its resting position - as it would never be resting. Normally, you could feel the change in a ship, but with the storm that bad, and the pure size of the ship, that feel would be harder to be sure of, and even if you did feel it, determining what degree of problem your in is the next problem. There was nothing they could have done.

I was a merchant ship's officer for 30 years and I remember the loss of the Derbyshire. The Derbyshire was a type of cargo ship known as an "OBO", or "Oil-Bulk-Ore" carrier, a type that became very popular during the 1970s because they could carry cargoes of bulk oil, bulk ore or bulk grain interchangeably. However, after a number of OBOs were lost, including the Derbyshire, the OBO cargo ship concept fell out of favor in the shipping industry. Nowadays, cargo ships are generally constructed as specialized oil tankers or specialized dry bulk carriers, but rarely as combinations of both. Incidentally, it is interesting to note that at almost the same time that the Derbyshire disappeared with all hands in the Pacific an American bulk carrier also disappeared with all hands on the other side of the world in the Atlantic, the Poet. Unlike the Derbyshire, to this day the wreck of the Poet has never been found and her fate remains a mystery. However, unlike the Derbyshire, the Poet was a very old ship converted from a WW-II troop transport, and was known to be a "rust-bucket". In addition, the ship's owners did not notify any of the authorities until after they had not heard from the Poet for nine days. Oh, and the name of the ship was not the result of any poetic streak on the part of the owners, it was simply the least expensive way they could think of to rename the ship. The ship's former name had been "Portmar", and the new owners had simply painted out the "...mar", then changed the "r" to an "e" and, voila; "Poet".

The Derbyshire may have sunk in as little as 45 seconds after the bow dipped under water for the last time. The Radio Officer would have been either in the Radio Room or their adjacent cabin at the time and the fact that no distress signal was transmitted is further evidence of how rapidly the vessel sank. It would take less than a minute to send an initial distress signal and an automated distress transmitter could be operated by any member of the crew within a couple of minutes. The instructions and switches are prominently highlighted in the Radio Room, which is also supplied with constant emergency power from a battery bank. Bulk ore carriers are particularly vulnerable to flooding due to the majority of the hold being full of air. Water can enter unimpeded and once there is more than a few feet of water in a hold, it will slosh back and forth, seriously compromising the stability and buoyancy of the vessel. The Zeebrugger ferry disaster is an example of a ship being overturned by a relatively small amount of water entering through an accidentally left open bow door. Additionallly, bulk ore carriers, although massive, have their main deck only ten feet above the waves when fully loaded. The hatch coamings and covers might add another three or four feet of height, but in a storm with 40, 50, or even 100 foot waves, it is a matter of pure luck for such a vessel to survive. Oil tankers are similarly low in the water when fully loaded but they are full of oil and so relatively safe from flooding. They can break in two if the peaks of the waves coincide with the length of the vessel leaving the centre section unsupported. Provided no fire breaks out, both parts will generally remain afloat for some time. Gazing up at the peaks of waves from the bridge of a ship when they are 20 or 30 feet above your head as your 20,000 ton cargo ship sits in a trough is a sobering experience and leaves no room for doubt as to how fragile even the largest vessels can be and the skill required to navigate safely through bad weather. The loss of the Derbyshire was a hugely traumatic shock to all who were serving in the Merchant Navy at the time.

My grandfather was on the MV Derbyshire when it sank. Thank you for your video, I have forwarded on the video to my family

Having been onboard US Navy craft during high seas I can say it’s enough for me. I can’t imagine what the sailors on a huge merchant ship in a storm that goes down were feeling. We were able to avoid the worst of the storms and it was a big ship but it makes you realize just how powerful the ocean can be. We were tossed around and we were on an amphibious assault ship. Basically it’s a small aircraft carrier for helicopters and jump jets. Just the horror of knowing what was going to happen as their ship went under… Those poor souls.

I was on a merchant ship heading towards Japan from Singapore at this time and we heard about this loss when we arrived in Yokohama. I had never before and never since experienced waves of the height that we experienced in that typhoon and we took a huge green one over the poop deck that breached the aft hatch but our Captain had made sure that each of the inner deck hatches were closed and so the whole hatch was not swamped. The whole thing was a terrifying experience and could have ended much worse had it not been for belt and braces seamanship by our Captain.

I sailed on the MV Sir Alexander Glen, one of 2 sister ships run by our company (Denholm Ship Mgt). Think in total there was 6 sister ships. It was about a year after the sinking of the Derbyshire. We had several cracks on the deck around frame 65. The other sister ship, MV Sir Ian Hunter, even managed to get a knot in her anchor chain. And no, I don't mean kinked. I mean there was a knot. Exactly how this happened we shall never figure out. I paid off the Sir Alexander Glen in Japan. Was glad to see the back of her. I cannot imagine the pure terror the souls of the Derbyshire endured in her final minutes. I've seen a few videos about her which claim her bow would have felt sluggish. However, the ships used an automated steering system , so nobody on the bridge would have been aware of this. You also have to remember, she sank at night. Other than navigation lights, there would have been no illumination of the bow. The bow was the best part of 800 feet from the bridge so, again nobody would have noticed the bow slowly going down until it rea he'd the point of no return. A very sad loss that for some of us will never be forgotten

My Dad was asked to work on the Derbyshire during the final voyage, he turned it down as my sister was only a few months old.

I sailed on 2 of the sister ships twice (Sir John Hunter & Sir Alexander Glen), but exactly 12 months after the Derbyshire was lost I was on Sir Alexander Glen and we were heading to Japan from Canada with iron ore and in similar location to the Derbyshire when Typhoon Thad was forming. I was the Radio Officer and I also had a Junior R/O with me, so we were able to keep a 24 hour weather watch. We did make a diversion away from the Typhoon. At the time there was a problem with frame 65. Cracks were appearing in all those sister ships. I was convinced for many years later that was the reason the Derbyshire sank and felt had we not diverted we would have met the same fate. I had a cine camera with me on the trip and have a film of my time onboard that trip. (I also did another film in 1982 on the same ship). But the 1981 film also has footage from the Typhoon forming. The sea was getting gradually worse. I also included a lot of information in the description. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q9OTaNR_m53Dgps.html

My mate was going to join this ship as a deck boy,but while they were sorting it out the phone rang at the Southampton pool where he was getting the job.The man looked at him and said he could either join the Derbyshire or the QE2 which was alongside in Southampton he chose the latter,lucky boy

1:35 - Chapter 1 - Background 4:20 - Chapter 2 - The search 6:00 - Chapter 3 - Design flaws 7:05 - Chapter 4 - 1st investigation 11:05 - Chapter 5 - 2nd investigation 12:35 - Chapter 6 - Public inquiry reopened

I have a huge fear of open waters but I love stories like this. I have lots of respect for ship crews

Must have been a truly horrific moment when the crew realised they were going down, and it was too late to make an escape to the lifeboats... :(

MS München is another lost carrier worth looking at. They believe it went down due to a rogue wave, which was considered to be statistically impossible to happen at the time.

Gordon Lightfoot reference: immediate thumbs up.

Lightfoot's voice is actually quite monotonous throughout "The Wreck Of Edmond Fitzgerald", but the story he tells is so fascinating and the guitar lead between each verse is so haunting it has left that sinking immortalized second to only the sinking of the Titanic. Great song, love Gorden Lightfoot's works of music. As someone else mentioned, his "Canadian Railroad Trilogy" is a wonderful song, probably my favorite from him. "There was a time in this great land when the railroad did not run. When the green majestic mountains stood alone against the sun. Long before the white man and long before the wheel. Where the green dark forests stood to silent to be real" 🎵

Duringy time in the USN, I saw only one rogue wave. In seas of 30 foot swells, a wave over 100 feet washed across the deck of my Nimitz Class carrier. The wave was so large that the ship all but came to a dead stop from a solid 15 knots. Having witnessed that from aboard a warship, I can easily see a civilian merchant vessel being sunk by suvh a wave. Neptune and Posiedon are fickle masters, and the sea is a cruel mistress.

Thank you for making a very simple succinct video about this disaster . I sailed on one of the other 6 ships and when on them you never consider that they can possibly go down like that . We did the exact same voyage from Canada to Japan with the same cargo after previously carrying oil from Libya . you mentioned about there being 2 wives on board , there is another disaster far worse in regard to loss of life , that is the '' Royston Grange '' , a general cargo / refrigerated ship , 73 people including 12 passengers lost after a collision in the river plate off Argentina , 1972 , she was the sister ship to the ''Hardwick Grange '' which i sailed on 3 times

With storms, when the Big ships run then its time for all ships to run. Up in Alaska the fish/crab processing ships are massive. The smaller ships watch what they do when deciding how bad a storm is going to be. My Brother worked on one, and he said that when they went to hide behind an island because of a storm, ALL the small ships in the area did the same.

A interesting Brain Blaze or today I found out would be about a sailor who was stuck on a abandoned ship in the Suez Canal for 4 years and couldn't leave the ship legally. The ship was called MV Aman and it's a heartbreaking story how Cheif Mate Mohammad Aisha didn't know what he was signing a guardianship but it ultimately lead to the owners abandoning the ship and he legally was a prisoner of the ship only swimming to the shore for food and water. This does have a happy ending recently but it's fascinating and sad what happened to this sailor!

G'day Simon, Thanks for this chilling tale of disaster at sea and bureaucratic reluctance to seek a definitive cause. If nothing else, the fate of the MV Derbyshire, once again, proves the fact that there is no such thing as an 'unsinkable' ship. Over the years vessels, new and old, in every state of repair and condition have found a final home on the bottom of the sea. During WW2 an intense and infamous typhoon claimed several USN ships to either sudden sinking or extreme damage with a huge loss of life. In the historical record of modern era sinkings the much publicised Titanic is way down on the list of the deadliest maritime disasters. Of course, thousands of ships, over the decades have lived long working careers and finally make their departure at one of the huge scrap yards that dot the coastlines of various countries. These are the 'lucky' ships. One of the greatest technological advances in ship design has been in the ways ships' crews and passengers can be swiftly evacuated from a foundering vessel. Still, simple physics shows us that no matter what a vessel's size, a sudden swamping by hundreds of tons of seawater can still spell doom for even the best of maritime designs. These disasters, although thankfully rare these days, does not mean that vessels, in the future, will become immune to sudden sinking. Another engrossing video with jaw-dropping statistics and disturbing facts. Thanks, Simon. Cheers, BH

At one point in the 1990's at least one bulk carrier or tanker was lost every month for about 4 successive years. This was down to an aging fleet and unscrupulous owners cutting corners with cheap crew and reduced maintenance (and sometimes bent owners 'vanishing' ships - claiming the ship lost in a storm, surreptitiously offloading the cargo often somewhere like embargoed South Africa, claiming the insurance and then sailing the ship to India/Bangladesh to be scrapped. The bent owner claims the insurance, getting a premium price embargo busting & then cash for scrapping the ship.)

This one of your channels for some reason has quickly risen up above the others. Must like your side projects.

Why isn’t this story better known? Thank you Simon for letting us learn about it.

Very informative and well done story on the MV Derbyshire sinking. I have never heard of this ship wreck that took all those people onboard down to the bottom of the ocean to join those of many others also lost at sea.

I love how something that could easily be summed up in a few sentences is magically turned into a 14 minute story by a glorious bald man and I love every minute of it. There is a reason I'm subscribed to 327 channels featuring the great Simon Whistler

Talking about Gordon Lightfoot, I think his best song is Canadian Railroad Trilogy. Could you do a video about that railroad (or have you already)?

Very good,I'm from Wallsend,and worked,in the shipyard,my dad,was involved in building this ship,unfortunately,the shipyard is now closed,government policies,but we all remember it and the launch

I have an idea for an episode. Around Vancouver island(Canada), there is a pass called Seymour Narrows. In the middle there was huge rock creating a navigational hazard. So in the 40's or 50's, it was blown up. Not just any explosion, but at the time, the largest non nuclear explosion that the world has seen. Be neat to see the background story.

Ah yes "The Wreck of the Gordon Lightfoot" by Edmund Fitzgerald

A maritime industry journal, Naval News & Undersea Technology, ran extensive articles on both losses of EDMUND FITZGERALD and the DERBYSHIRE. All of the sisters of the DERBYSHIRE had a structural flaw at Frame 65. Two sister ships were lost at sea.

What those people must have experienced just before the ship went down must have literally been hell on earth

I think a huge issue is how can you send a ship through Typhoon Alley... especially after what Halsey's Typhoon had wrecked... because... Typhoon Alley is the House and my thinking always wins, but is always willing to take bets

The Derbyshire wasn't, as you say, the only major bulk carrier to go down during that decade (I believe that the Berge Viking (??) was another that was lost under mysterious circumstances in the Pacific) and, like the Fitzgerald, its loss was ultimately due to unforeseen issues compounded by unbelievably bad weather. Unfortunately, however, her loss became a political issue which poisoned the investigative process for years.

That song is absolutely haunting, if you have not heard it I recommend it.

If you haven't ever made a video about the P1000 Ratte tank design you should definitely look into it. Keep up the good work

Thank you for this video. It is more informative than other videos I have seen about the Derbyshire. Thank you to some of those who replied, merchant seamen in particular. Very informative - and ultimately very, very sad. May those souls rest in eternal peace.

Excellent documentary of an event of which I had not been aware.

The science and knowledge around rogue wave phenomena is still developing. In my career they have gone from being 'tall stories' to credible. The loss of so many well found vessels over the years points to it being more common than previously though. (I'm a serving ship's master from the UK)

Please consider making a video on the case of MS Estonia at a future date. The amount of information that has surfaced through the years makes for an interesting video, i think. And it isnt as simple as a sunken cruise liner.

Ships sink every month even to this day. Crazy on the seas.

In reply to a previous comment regarding Sean? Hunter. MV Derbyshire was a British ore-bulk- combination carrier built in 1976 by Swan Hunter, as the last of the Bridge class. Sister ships were Furness Bridge, Tyne Bridge, English Bridge (later Kowloon Bridge) MV Derbyshire was originally named Liverpool Bridge, renamed Derbyshire in 1976. Whilst in commercial service, two of the six Bridge-class vessels sank-Derbyshire in 1980 and Kowloon Bridge in 1986. All were built by Swan Hunter at their recently acquired shipyard at Haverton Hill on the river Tees. As a footnote Swan Hunter (google earth it, amazingly the yard at Wallsend was built on and near Hadrians wall and a Roman fort on the river Tyne) was responsible for some of the greatest ships of the early 20th century, most famously RMS Mauritania and RMS Carpathia which rescued survivors from RMS Titanic.

Just curious, how many ships would have made it through that typhoon (with or without design flaws)?

Simon, someone there needs to work on their metric conversions. 1 square miles ≈ 2.6 km^2, not 1.6.

Simon, I absolutely love your work and topics covered, having said that, as an Aussie, You are a LEGEND of the highest order Mate

Remember this one thanks sideprojects for a top informative topic as all ways !!

What a coincidence, I just saw the Casual Navigation video on this case.

The sea has never been a safe place to make a living.

Might I request a video either here or on Megaprojects about the Mary Rose? About the biggest ship of its age, which was also its downfall, the raising of it, and the current work being done to preserve it?

I lost my dad (Roger) on the 16/02/2022 he use work in the Merchant Navy! He was aboard the ACT 6, Port Nicholson, the Staffordshire, The Devonshire, The Lincolnshire, he worked the QE2 for Many years as Second cook and baker, but he also worked on The Derbyshire... My dad was suppose to be on the ship when it set sail but he broke his leg on the way back to the ship at the port and they had to fly him home which saved his life! He could never talk about the Derbyshire to anyone but started to open up to me before he died at the age of 61, he lost his best friend's on that day, which I know the names of but out of respect won't post. I have his merchant books at home and they are stamped with the Derbyshire in them from when he sailed on her before, dad saved the clipping about the Derbyshire when she sunk and kept it with his seamen's books and paperwork.

I think it should also be mentioned, that wave length, vessel length and speed matched at a perfect destructive point. When the wave crest smashes over the forecastle, it compresses the vessels hull and stretches IT, as the wave rolls through under the hull. Result over the years is a formation of cracks, which evolves into water ingress. Just a geek detail for the mariners. The wreckage is still noted in British Admrality des charts.

Funfact: there is a french ship(a trimaran) that has been lost to the sea alongside her skipper Alain Colas called the "Manureva". The singer Alain Chamford has sung a homage written by Serge Gainsbourg : so those kinds of songs dedicated to ships aren't so obscure i see...

Huge creds for including both units of measurement consistently.

I'm glad those families fought the initial cause.

1:37 Shawn Hunter was in Boy meets World not Swan Hunter a ship builder on the Tyne

Great video 📹

Would be cool to see a video on the Fitzgerald

Wait, the hatch cover might have accidentally been left off or improperly latched. The record-holding large ship was already overladen in an unexpectedly violent storm. And the extra weight of the flooded hold probably made it crack at an unknown weak point. Are you sure we're not talking about the Edmund Fitzgerald?

Good video 👍

Here I was expecting yet another cause of corporate negligence but got an extraordinary tale of shit just breaking under situations they weren't designed to handle.

Suggestion: San Diego Coronado Bridge.

Shaun Hunter? Who's he and what does he have to do with the shipbuilder Swan Hunter????????? I'm confused!

Man, Simon! I love watching your very informative always entertaining and truthful episodes. Please feel free to continue,please.God bless you. You rule.

Loved the Edmund Fitzgerald Sideprojects video, and AskAMortician had a fabulous video on it and what happens to the victims of those shipwrecks in the American Great Lakes after they are unfortunately found deceased. Definitely morbid but both are fascinating watches for my inner weird-Midwestern-kid brain. 😅

Well done.

Back in the early 90's I was on an APL container ship in the Bearing Sea. Doing my morning rounds, as Chief Electrician, after/during a storm, I found 20 ft (or more) water in #1 hold, reported it, got the engine room pumping, then found out that there had been a cut-out switch for the hold bilge alarm! The engineer shut it off because "it was a nuscince alarm". Fuckin near sunk us! Can't even say how pissed I was! Removed the cutout switch, and spent a week or so repairing motor operated fuel oil valves, between two 120°f oil tanks... Grrr!

I read in the book ''Coffin Ships'' that the forecastle head of the Derbyshire had flooded before.

May God rest their souls and yes indeed a thumbs up video.

The Fitzgerald was a lake boat made to go through locks. You cant compare.

I worked at sea in the Southern Ocean for the 1990s and 2000s. Violent weather was very common. I remember in my first year we were in a storm about 200 miles south of NZ and I went up the bridge to find out what was going on. All the Norwegian officers had their survival suits out. It was that bad. The bridge was five decks above the water line, but in those storms you would be looking up at the crest of the next wave as we were punching into the weather. You can not help thinking about what you would do if we capsized and what part of the vessel you would not want to be in if it happened. A few times we had to steam to look for people who had fallen overboard in storms. We never found anybody. It is just what you have to do if you are in range of where it happened. Stories of people dying at sea are extra creepy to seafarers, because you can imagine what it was like for them.

Holy smokes you're constantly in my feed! I'm not complaining but do they let you take a break?

Interesting video, as always. It should be noted that when a class society issues an A1 rating, it’s still “the highest” minimum standard…

The famous ship builders SEAN Hunter?

Enjoyed the video small correction, one square miles equals 2.6 km²

Suggestion for another video about maritime disaster: MS Estonia (though you might have it on another channel like Into The Shadows (perhaps better suited there?))

Do one on the El Faro

fascinating

Congratulations Simon, you’ve discovered that ships are big! You should do a video on the loss of the Stellar Daisy, the biggest ship ever sunk.

Kowloon Bridge crossing the Atlantic between Quebec and Ireland.....Wow! That's a Megaproject even more impressive than Viaduc de Millau LOL.

How did it leave from Sept-Îles and end up near Japan? Did it go through the arctic? That isone hell of a drive-around...

The Big Fitz is what is called a Laker. They are limited in Width & length by the smallest of the locks of the Welland Canal. This transfers between Lake Erie & Ontario. It parallels the Niagra River/ Niagra falls on the Canadian side of the border river bet ween the United States of America & The Dominion of Canada (Yes that is still the whole legal name of the country)

The Fitzgerald was an Ocean Vessel and the first thing that came to mind when I saw this post’s title.

“Swan” Hunter :)

Can you cover the competition between the YF-23 vs the YF-22. It decided what next-gen fighter jet would rule the skies. Plus, the YF-23 is one of the coolest looking aircraft ever made... Thank you.

Weird. The exact same thing happened with the Edmund Fitzgerald, first images showed an open hatch in the wreckage and the initial conclusion was that it must have been left open, that's it blame a lazy sailor end of investigation let's all go home - anything to keep the insurance companies and shipbuilders from facing responsibility. Further investigation of course showed otherwise.

Terrifying for the crew

What IS THE NAME OF THAT FIRST TUNE YOU PLAY!??

Thank you

I was ona oil tanker slightly smaller than the derbyshire but that thing was massive at 889 feet the massive strait 8 engine was 3 stories high I couldn't see how something that big could even sink yah I was in 30 foot seas in AK that ship was old when I was on it but the massive cylinders you could sleep in if upside-down I forgot to mention in 30 foot seas that thing didn't even notice you just couldn't go on deak that day. Oh yah when you were close to a cylinder when it fired you could feel all your guts vibrating that thing was built in Japan in 74 but the large turbo generator that was running off the exhaust was 750kw you could lean against the wind it put out. Big ships are just huge nothing is small in them

wow i just found out about this a month ago now, truly a sad story.

Come on and tell the truth! I lived in Okinawa from 67-72 and monster attacks were very common. This ship was sunk by a monster and it was reported as such!

Build by Swan Hunter, not Sean Hunter.

One of the last big ship to be made on the tees to

You’ve garbled up the math on the comparison to the Fitz. Fitz could carry 26k tons more than it weighed empty. So, its capacity was equal to its empty weight plus 26k tons. And it’s that number divided by Derbyshire’s capacity that would determine the factor by which Derbyshire’s capacity exceeded that of the Fitz, but which undoubtedly would be significantly less than six.

A deal with the November Witch ensures a dinner invitation with Davey Jones.. Arrgue

It just goes to say don't fuck with a hurricane

It must have taken a lot out of those who lost people aboard the Derbyshire to do that but how many lives did it save? Many from now on.

So the ship was not divided into water-tight compartments? Flooding of a single compartment in combination with the maxed out cargo would cause it to sink in heavy swells?

That was a tragedy,so sad.

Nitpick mode on: 1 square mile is roughly 2.6 square kilometers ^^