Probably should have pinned this yesterday.... This is NOT a review of Blood on the Clocktower. This is my experience playing it and the various factors. As a game that is often played in similar settings, at conventions, with larger groups, etc etc. If you love this game, great. If you think this sounds like an experience you would avoid, then avoid it. Take what you want from this video but it's absolutely not a review.

20 players playing for the first time on a convention? That is a terrible setting, I don't think any game could withstand a chaos test with double of recommended players.

I love this game. I would say for a first game, it should be maybe 7 - 10 players with the trouble brewing script with no travellers

To be fair, this wasn't supposed to be a game for teaching new players. When we invited individuals, we asked which game people would like to play assuming that you would already know and be familiar with the games. It wasn't supposed to be about introducing new people to a new game. The game was advertised as only for experienced players and was supposed to be for paying players to have an experience playing a game they enjoyed with content creators from KZfaq.

6:03 The appeal of board game cafes: They're *not* noisy, the tables are large, you can utilize their board game collection, you can order food/drinks, it provides a good meeting place without "intruding" anyone's home. Not everyone has a large home with a large table for board games.

I haven't played this game yet and was looking for takes that might balance out the overwhelmingly positive reviews I've seen. Instead I got twenty minutes of complaints about the location that had nothing to do with the actual game interspersed with promises that you had issues with the game itself. Finally at 16:30 you bring up an issue with the game design and it's just that you were left with your eyes closed for too long. No indication if that is typical for the game or if it's yet another product of the poor setting. You start the video saying that you wouldn't even attempt this game again. That's a pretty strong condemnation and I expected there to be substance about the game itself. It sounds like you had a truly terrible experience. I'm convinced I shouldn't try the game on a crowded convention floor. Other than that though, I don't feel like I learned anything about the actual game from this video.

Blood on the clocktower is amazing. I watched this to see why you didnt like it. And honestly at that many players, i dont think id like it. This is a game for around maybe 7 - 12ish players. That just seems super chaotic and no way to find out any actual information. Hats off to that story teller trying to play with that many people.

Sounds like he knew the environment wouldn't work for him going into it but did it anyway? Most of the problems weren't to do with the game mechanics either. Pretty sure if someone offered to teach me Brass Birmingham in a nightclub I might know that it would annoy me.

The sentence’I played a game in an environment I don’t enjoy and didn’t enjoy the experience’ could sum up the entire video

Strange critique, the problems you seem to have are to do with the environment you played in, rather than the game itself.But maybe these games are not for you.

If this is the most popular negative account of the game, and it's so specifically focused on the bad situation you played the game in... I think that actually speaks a good deal towards how great this game is.

Totally understand what you meant when you said a large group mutes you totally resonates with me. I’m in my element when in a small group of 3-4 friends. Once that group goes above 7, I’ll struggle to feel lively.

Lol of course it sucked. I love blood on the clocktower. It's an AWESOME logic puzzle, rivaling Avalon. Every single issue you mentioned would be rectified if you played in a room without other games running and played with 7-12 players. Also playing with friends/family would help. First of all, there were way tooooo many players. It's not possible to follow the all the characters or the board state as a new player. Especially since 5 had to be travelers, which is a whole new role type that has its own rules (that aren't fun imo). You can't contribute your thoughts in a game with 20 players. Even as players die, they still participate and have 1 remaining vote (unlike Mafia) so I can imagine you had to be aggressive to get a word in. Also the nights take FOREVER with 20 players! The storyteller needs to wake up so many players every night AND track an insanely complex board state. Btw that's also why setup took so long. Definitely a hard pass with those playing conditions. You should try it again at 7 players - it should take in total not longer than an hour.

For anyone who is actually wondering how this game is played I highly recommend No Rolls Barred 's playthroughs. This infuriated me to listen to. I've never seen someone complain about keeping their eyes closed with such passion in a game that requires players to not know each other. This is like someone shitting on a painting because the line for the museum was too long, and the a/c was broken and their camera died before they could take a picture of it and makes a video saying that the painting itself was the worst thing he's ever seen in two years. Nothing at all about mechanics of the game, no actual criticism at all, and yet you'll never play it again, but it's not a review of the game.

Blood on the Clocktower is HANDS DOWN!!! The best social deduction game ever created. Over 100 roles and more will most likely be added. You need to give it another chance.

As an introvert myself, these sorts of gaming experiences definitely take a lot out you. I learned BOTC at a convention, but enjoyed it more when played in a quiet game night setting. The logic puzzle to unwind is fascinating. The one complaint I have about the game is the alpha gamer problem. This game rewards multiple plays, so it inevitably welcomes those who want to dominate the conversation, because that have it all "figured out."

Damn we just got clickbaited into hearing why boardgame conventions suck for 20 minutes :v

I would really hope you do another video after you play it again with a different settings, perhaps with lesser ppl (9-10?) in a decent room setting as well as everyone came prepared (pre-study the scenario as well as the roles involved). I must be lucky I had one of the best game nights in a while. Disclaimer: social deduction game was not my favourite genre. Long story short, had a friend invited me over for Blood on the Clocktower and he made sure everyone pre-study the roles involved in the scenario (Trouble Brewing), I was skeptical as I saw the 3.05 weight on BGG (that’s heavier than Castle of burgundy and Concordia!), instantly I knew I have to spent a longer time to understand the game rules similarly to games like CoB but I didn’t think I spent too much time on this as I just need to study 21 roles. We were playing the same scenario twice in a row, with 9 ppl (+ story teller) in a house with separate rooms for private discussion, host put on thematic background music during night phase and due to smaller group we didn’t have our eyes closed that long, given everyone came pre studied the roles we can get the game started after like in 15mins? Some of us did ask questions for the more difficult roles like drunk and recluse but no biggies for me. All in all we had a blast and we were still talking about the game the next day, which is a good sign. For me not being too good at putting an ‘act’ on social deduction game like werewolf or Avalon where you HAVE to talk in front of everyone this game offer me to do well as I can talk with a smaller group in private which I can certainly play (act) better. I think I would play this again and I hope you would give the game another chance when you can play it with the right group, right time and place.

This honestly sounds more like a criticism of the organizers of the event, and not necessarily BotC. If you look on the events page on Origins' website, it says previous experience is required to play. Sounds like they messed up big time by allowing a bunch of new players play in a 20-player game. I feel bad for anyone that paid $12 to play and end up with the same experience you had, especially when they could have played for free in any of the other games being run at smaller player counts.

Blood on the clocktower is the best social deduction Boardgame ever created.

3:19 - he starts explaining

I had a thought on board game cafes the other day. Some of my friends don’t want to play because their house is a mess. Although I advocate for keeping things tidy. I think it’s nice to have the option to meet someplace without the overhead of housework.

I played it in a board game pub in London first with about 10 and then about 20 near total strangers. Both were extremely fun but the second one with the big group was one of the most fun experiences I've had playing a game.

Yeah, a loud convention setting and an extremely high player count for game one is a recipe for disaster, for most people I'd think.

I think a lot of the problems were due to wrong player count and environment. I think this game has some very special requirements: 1) Private setting, preferably somewhere comfortable (a home) 2) Group of 8-10 people, this would limit the downtime 3) The people know each other, or majority of each other I bet if you did this with the people you know at the convention, in a private room, your experience would've been much better.

I can totally relate. Loving being with friends and interacting with the people around the table, I myself always needed the time to recharge. It’s a balance, I guess. But I always really enjoyed social deduction games. I’d say those were my gateways into the hobby. And in the right conditions, I can see this game being really fun. I would give it a try, with a group consisting of a reasonable number of friends, in a controlled environment with no distractions (meaning, at home xD). In the environment on which you all played, I can only imagine my experience being very similar to yours. Thanks for sharing your experience, Alex! Hope the rest of the convention was more positive :)

Played it for the first time tonight and have to say i agree. While I was also not in the best head space to play, the set-up and down time between rounds really bugged me.

The takeaway if you don't wanna watch 18 minutes of rambling: Don't sign up for a social deduction game with 20 people, half of whom you've never met before, in a crowded noisy room if you're an introvert - got it! This review isn't about the game, it's mechanics, its amazing replayability or endless combinations and puzzle-solving experience - it's about everything else than the actual game - but to say he never wants to try the actual game, with like 8-9 friends at home in a cozy environment is just stubbornness - like letting a bad party, where you puked on the floor lead you to saying, you'll never wanna party again. I've been storyteller twice with 4 games under my belt, with 8, 9 and 10 people, in it's been an absolute blast! Most of the players knew each other, and most players praised the game to high heaven both times - you could feel the adrenaline and euphoria in people as they left both nights. Sure, it's not for everybody, and sure the game can become "too big for itself", but that is actually the Storyteller's fault, not the game's.

So BOTC is my #1 game of all time - interestingly I actually don't like many other social deduction games like Avalon or wearwolf but BOTC holds a very special place in my heart. Listening to your game experience I can almost guarantee the highest detriment on your enjoyment was trying to play your first game at so many players... There is a HUGE amount of leaning to do in BOTC and more than basically any other game I've played it rewards multiple plays and familiarity with the game mechanics... In smaller games you have to interact with far fewer characters and there is inherently a lot less going on. It's also a lot quicker and the night phase (where you close your eyes) is significantly shorter... Now I'm not saying that BOTC is definitely for you - it's not a game for everyone and that's ok :) but just know the experience you had is really not typical of a normal introduction play and if you did give it a go again at a lower player count with people you know I would expect you to have a much much better time (even if ultimately deciding it wasn't a game for you!)

Getting to this late, but I might suggest giving the game another try via either text or online play. A lot of the issues you mentioned are dramatically effected by either of those modes of playing. I haven't had the ability to play a live game (let alone one in a convention), but as an introvert myself, I totally get the shutting down. I also love the logic puzzle part of these games. I've played a lot of text games. The pace is much slower -- typically due to players being spread around the world, any given day or night phase is a full 24 hours, but it allow for a lot of time to piece together the information that you have, that others have. It's not always solvable -- social reads are still supposed to a huge part of the game after all -- but it's a much different environment that might improve the flow and change the type of game it is for you. The unofficial discord server has text games starting every couple of days, and online (using discord voice/video chat and a free website as the circle) every couple hours.

alex: first, it was a pleasure meeting you earlier at origins. i was also in this event of botc at origins. you nailed the experience of that evening: disorganized room admin, late start, too noisy, too many people in the game - and emily the storyteller was amazing. when i checked in, i was sent to another game of botc. i don't think you should beat yourself up for the number of players - that's also the fault of the admin folks. however, from someone who paid a fee to be part of this, i was disappointed (all of your content creator friends seemed like nice people). it probably wasn't my worst gaming experience of 2022, but it was my worst experience at origins 2022 by far. i will probably give botc another shot sometime, but only with a smaller group in a quieter, more controlled setting.

LOL "Felt like I was in time out" I am going to use this in the future. :)

I do love how you are able to see yourself so clearly Alex. That is not a common skill set. And honestly even just hearing SUSD describe Blood on the Clocktower let me know it wasn't going to be great for me. Honestly however I don't love social deduction games. I can't recall one that I've enjoyed.

I’ve had experiences like this but for normal games that I normally like.. last night I played Pax Pamir and it was only 3 players and I timed 45 minutes between one of my turns.. I was sooo checked out. For me, any game where there is just dead time like that between turns where I’m not engaged is just a deal killer. Some long games like twilight imperium keep you engaged between turns because everything effects you and you still do stuff. This particular game seems like it would be more fun if it was 8 close friends, at home, everyone already knew the rules, and you dresse you and made it like a game you play during a party with food and stuff

I can understand a great deal of where you're coming from. I am also an introvert. I don't like playing games at conventions or in public places. I don't usually like games with more than about 8-10 players. I prefer playing games with people I know, particularly close friends. My worst gaming experience might be something of a tie between 4 different games. It's difficult to pick a worst as they were all miserable in different ways: 1) Terra Mystica - 4.5 hours with first-time players who were all strangers, played in a crowded room, learning a bloated game. I had an actual, physical headache afterward. 2) Tzolk'in - Much as Terra Mystica, 4.5 hours, strangers, crowded room, everyone learning. I had to ask the question, "Is it possible to go negative on the VP track?" 3) Alien Frontiers - A game I actually love, but I made the mistake of playing a 4 player game with 3 strangers who regarded any "inconvenient" move I made against their planned strategy as if I had just insulted their mother. 4) Argent: The Consortium - Oy vey! This game was torture. Again, 4.5 hours, strangers, crowded room, overly-complex game, not enough table space, misery. Never again. It has taught me some important lessons, however. It has taught me to play in a quiet, private setting. To play with people I know. And to avoid games that are overly complex and dry without any sense of social atmosphere. It is probably why I've come not to enjoy most euros of any complexity above a 2.5, especially if they take longer than 90 minutes to finish. The idea of BotCT sounds interesting but I don't think I would ever want to play it with more than 10 and absolutely wouldn't do it in any setting other than someone's house, where it is quiet, focused and filled with friends. Cheers!

Even his "genuine" complaints are not typical. I regularly run this game in Sheffield, UK. The things you need to know can be introduced in at Max 10 minutes. Now if I'm having to set up the Grim I have another experienced ST/ Player do the intro talk which is only ever necessary if there's new players. So that 10 minutes approx is it for set up. Thats whether it's 5 or 20 players. The first night phase does often take longer but you slowly get shorter nights as night waking roles die. It never even approaches half the game even if you do the night phase really methodically. Usually a little less than 3 minutes down to about a minute later game so on average maybe a total of 10 minutes in an hour long Trouble Brewing. Day phases including Nomination period maybe 12-15 minutes per day again getting shorter as the game goes on. Everything here screams that the experience has been heavily canted by personal biases and atrocious conditions. I'm not sure how someone took 45 minutes to do the set up. My advice to this person. Is get people you know outnumbering those you don't. Play it in an atmosphere that is more conducive. Don't right it off. Give it another go. I run this in a large game store for the Store as well as have Unofficially official games as well. We usually get a large ish side room to run it. I've built the group up so if necessary we can run 5 towns (mostly 2 at moment to manage group size but at this level of group development we plan for 3). The store is happy to accommodate. Bear in mind that usually the shop is full of wargamers on nights we play so those groups nearer that action do have to deal with some extra noise however we are still using areas slightly segregated. I'm totally unsure also why he played at all given he has expressed dislike of large social games. I mean kudos he tried but it he doesn't like a majority of the things happening even without that then 🤷🏼‍♂️ As an ST I'm lucky I will admit. I don't have to think of numbers other than when to start another town and split optimally. I have several ST's with Grims who are happy to take up that role. I have a venue that caters (Nay even bends over backwards to accommodate us, Thank you Patriot Games Sheffield) for us. Sorry if this is ranty but I just feel this is an unfair swipe. Listening to this felt more like watching someone punishing a kid for scalding themselves when proper precautions weren't taken in the first place! At least try it in more optimal conditions, you may find out that that puzzle aspect so loved is actually there, because it is. Anyway.

Your needs are wrong! LOL But really Blood on the Clocktower is a transformative game. Literally the only game that I can get more than 4 people together to play, and when we ask people jump to want to come over and play again. Play in a real setting, not a shoehorned hotel meeting room.

im thinking of playing this game with family, this video is helping me be better at running the game. what ive seen online is that there is many ways to run it so the issues you experience don't happen, thank you for your opinion

completely understand why it didn't work for you, I'm looking forward to it, because deeper larger group games are hard to find, and my friends love murder mystery/social deduction etc... so I think it will play well. but the setting you learned it & played it sounds like an introvert's nightmare for sure

I feel unless you have a very specific gaming group, I would wager the best experience of BOTC has to be the No Rolls Barred playthroughs. The game seems very cool, but I've accepted that it's not likely I will ever experience it at that level.

I think most of your complaints stem from this being at a convention and the fact that you were 20 people. Way too much. Your feeling of having your eyes closed most of the time is also likely made worse by the fact that you were so many players. That being said, if you don’t like the WW style of games, this might just not be for you. Hope you manage to get some sleep!

It looks like you're wearing the perfect shirt for this video. It really puts your opinions in context.

Board game cafes are great when you don't have enough space for a game, or you don't have the game you want to try out, and you don't want to or can't buy that certain game.

I’ve run 50+ live games of BOTC. Unfortunately this experience does not sound very representative of the game. Environmental issues aside, setup and first night should never take that long, even at a very high player count (which like any game compounds down time). It’s night and day with a more curated experience.

Haven't watched this video yet, but I've watched two videos from No Rolls Barred (who loves this game btw), and from that I figured out that: 1. it wasn't a game for me. 2. It's probably best in a groups of friends that hang out together outside just game nights.

I saw the Vlog you are talking about. I was a bit sad by your appearance at the end of the game, you really looked like it had been horrible. I am glad that you have come over and shared your thoughts now in a structured way and having looked instrospectively into what were the specifics of your awful experience. I feel like number of people and venue issues aside, the amount of time with eyes closed could be improved with less people and with simpler roles, judging from what others are saying, since I still have to try to get to play this game myself. I do am a backer but I never managed to have the time to play it over discord or something. I have high hopes for this game, listening to your personal experience is a complete counter balance and criticism to everthing that this game has been hyped for. The infamous SU & SD review was extremely good because they played it with people that were not complete strangers to each other and was not such a large group either, so that means that they had the very same two environmental biases you had mostly flipped over. I will be trying to join an online game to judge myself the experience and do my best to provide my pesonal group a much more curated experience in opposition to the "everything goes" one that you had. If that is still not enough to make my group enjoy the game I will be sorely sad about it. I as a host for game night, I hate it when my lack of preparation causes a bad after taste on a new game, which in turns mean that the chances of trying to play it again are pretty much non-existing (in not an unlike manner to what you experienced). I don't think you will ever give BotCT a second chance and that's fine, but if you do give it a new chance, hopefully with the environmental biases better managed and with a story teller who doesn't have you closing your eyes for half the time, see what you think about it then. In the meantime, if that never happens anyway, I find your experience and all the introspection you did in order to give structure and words to why this experience was so terrible to you to be extremely valuable and a completely just judgement about the game itself, so I for one think this video is an extremely valuable resource in order to better prepare for a first-time playing session. Thank you for the video and your honesty, all the respect to you and your content, Alex!

Oh wow, I feel clickbaited into a video that is all about badly organiced social deduction games at conventions and nothing about the actual game "blood on the clocktower" itself. Sorry that you had such a bad experience, but I had hoped for a bit more than the fact that it's not a good idea for an introvert to play a (way too big) social deduction game at a convention...

Have you played two rooms and a boom? I feel like it has just the right amount of large group social deduction elements at a game run time that makes sense.

I've lost count of the number of games I've run of BOTC. Must be closing in on at least 100. From my experiences running I now limit the game to 8-12 players when I can, especially at cons. This is my favorite game of all time! High player count games can work in the right circumstances, but I never find it ideal. Most of my 12 player games last 75-90 minutes. Also my teach lasts 15-20mins without interruptions.. I like to get the first night going and if anyone has questions about character powers I ask they pull me aside once we've begun.

I ended up becoming an Ultimate Werewolf Extreme play tester during Covid and had not played any social deception before that. So I played (at times) 3-4 games in a night, 3x a week. I was overwhelmed at the beginning and that was on Zoom with 12-20 players. And I never played in person until two weeks ago at Kublacon! But even though it was 20-25 players large, we were in our own room. The villages were also designed by the moderator to be more chaotic and have the potential for chain reaction deaths in order to move the game along. All this to preface that what you described sounds terrible!!! I don’t know BotC but it seems most people say stop player counts at 10. I cannot imagine trying to conduct the teach and the game in that environment. I hope you try it again under more accommodating circumstances in the future.

I'm sorry you played what is the worst possible experience for Clocktower. That is not a representation of what the game normally is, or should be. I personally think they (TPI) shouldn't have even suggested 20 players being possible in the design of it (the worst part is that any players beyond 15 are forced into being Travellers, which can be voted to die at any time in the day and most people are paranoid about leaving Travellers alive for more than a day or two). Having all the convention distractions on top of that has got to have been rough. From what I've seen from people that run BotC at conventions, the target is 8 or 9 players. You played double that. I would never ever once run a 20 player game, period...let alone with new players. Anything beyond 12 is just chaos (I know from personally being in a 15 player game). Yes, like you mention expecting, there is an ideal player count and most people agree on 8-12. Even then, I'd try avoiding 12 players with new players. 7-10 is probably safe, but lower is better since it's less to learn and less info going around. Night phases should definitely not be a majority of the time, even with 20 people. I don't know what the numbers usually are, but for 12 players, it's more like a couple minutes for night and about 10 minutes for day. Maybe the fact you're not engaged in gameplay (and already feeling like shutting down) exaggerates the feeling of time passing? Maybe the ST added in too many roles that act in the night or is going very slowly to ensure she's doing it right? It most certainly shouldn't be 50% of the game. Day is probably on average 4 or 5 times longer than night. What's ironic is the description of what you like in social deduction is what I love most about BotC. There's a puzzle to solve, and usually the ST has set you up with a situation. It's up to the good players to work out that puzzle while the evil players try to throw wrenches in it with false info or be a distraction. It's not a shouting match with very limited info, like Werewolf/Mafia. You can find ways to test people, create chains of trust, narrow down your worldview, etc. but there's still room for evil to have a chance (e.g. Drunk/Poison status). It's very similar feeling to One Night series. You don't have to remember everything, because you can choose to trust someone to share your info with and you can all work together to parse all the info. (Of course, having 20 players just about guarantees you won't be able to parse all that info. Too many voices. Too many distractions. Not enough time.) If you mean that having to listen to 19 other players' stories and info is overwhelming, I fully get that. It's why I'd never run it with that large of a group. I'd shut down as well. I practically did in the 15 player game I played. I won't say I hope you try BotC again because I know the experience has scarred you and will shade how you feel about it in the future. I personally have a vendetta against Settlers of Catan because my first games of it were with people who played the game in very toxic and anti-social ways. I'm sure it's a good game, but I'll forever hate it and you'd be struggling to convince me to give it another shot. Like you say about BotC, there may be a world where I do give it a shot, but I likely won't. *P.S.:* Sorry for the essay. I'm quite obsessed with Clocktower and honestly believe it's the best social deduction game out there. The only ones that can compare are ones with a niche like Deception, in my eyes. My only beef with it is the fact I can't get groups of 8-12 people to play, and that's on me and my situation.

i feel terribly sorry for You. If You never play this game again You will miss out on such an amazing experience. This is by far my favourite board game. Period. Hopefully You will be able to give it another chance. I doubt You will regret it

'No offence to anyone running the game, any of the players in the game, the organizers of the event, or the makers of the game itself, please, no offence...but this was the worst night of my life and it was the worst experience ever and I'll never play it again. But no offence...please.'

The appeal of board game cafes: no blaring music, big tables, the cafe's collection of board games, you can order food/drinks, no need to "intrude" anyone's home. They're very good meeting places to play games and hang out. Not everyone has a big home with a big table for board games.

I just watched the video on Quackalope and you expressed such distaste. Then I click here and you have a dedicated video to it. I have never enjoyed a social deduction game, and from what I saw I would have hated it. Knowing that you are on a tight schedule and you took the time to film this video is passion.

I am terrible at social deduction games. It seems like every time I play if I’m on the bad team everyone knows and I am immediately called out. I have easy tells to my friends and I prefer Sherlock Holmes consulting detective when I want to play a logic game. That being said I have always been very tempted to get Mafia de Cuba because everyone gets to choose their social involvement (almost every other social deduction game you are randomly given a role). Anyone have thoughts on that game? It has a high player count but I could get it played once a year for sure.

Yeah, closing eyes for so long was definitely a symptom of the convention setup. Nights take a long time with so many players. But admittedly during the night with your eyes closed, you are still allowed to talk publicly with the group and figure out the puzzle with your eyes closed. Now admittedly, that'd be super hard to do in that environment. But in a calmer environment with a bunch of friends. Closing your eyes isn't too much of a burden because you can just keep on talking and accusing people while the storyteller runs the night.

I love watching this game played on Zoom calls, but watching it in person drives me insane. I too am an introvert who has issues with too many people around. I could not handle the short meets of passing info and trying to remember what people are telling me. Even knowing all the characters wouldn't have helped you. I watched an 18 player game with very experienced players that took 1 hour and 45 minutes to play. It's much too much for people like us, especially in the atmosphere that you described. I would have been running out of there screaming after the first 20 minutes. It is a great game, but you need to be the right type of person to play it. It's never a bad thing to find out that you don't enjoy a game. I appreciate your effort in trying it.

It's sad hearing this as someone who thinks BotC is one of the best gaming experiences out there. I would say to try it again under better circumstances but maybe it's just not for you. I played it at UKGE last week but luckily they were in a somewhat quieter corner of the expo. Also numbers were kept to max 15. In better circumstances you shouldn't be eyes shut more than 25% if the game. Plus you can still openly talk when asleep.

This makes me so sad. Blood On the Clocktower is my favorite social deduction game and my second favorite game of all time! I loved the experience I had at Origins with it last year with my family and many strangers. Oh well, at least you don’t hate my number one game … yet. :)

I had a similar experience with 2 Rooms and a Boom with people most of whom I didn't know. The experience of groups of friends forming cliques and treating me at best with suspicion, and at worst being ignored was isolating and boring. I never played it again.

Never played a fun social deduction game at this player count. There really isn’t any game left at that player count, and barely any deduction. It’s just social chaos.

I think I would hate the experience you had. I think I would love this game under normal circumstances (7-12 people. In a curated environment. Etc.) But I really like RPG's and I think this game asks for something like an RPG experience which is something you have commented on disliking in the past.

wow, crazy turn around time on this video! i just saw quackalopes video of blood on the clocktower. appreciate the hard work and content!

Dont agree with this one but hey not here to always think exact same thing :D understand what you are saying but i love it so much . Really made an evening out of it prepared rooms in the house with themes for people to cahoot and scheme they loved it .

Do people know a list of Board Games that for DM/GM’s? I’m looking for a “streamlined” rpg experience, where a number of mechanics are set but also there is a DM/GM who can tweak it as they go.

Same reasons I'll never play a LARP again. Too chaotic => too much stress.

My worst gaming experience was a high player count play of Small World. It was about 30 minutes between my turns, so what would happen is I would play my turn, decide on a series of plans for my next turn depending on what other people did, wait about 5 minutes, and then stop being able to pay attention to the extremely slow rate at which things were happening. When it was my turn again, I would tune back in with no memory of my plans and a dramatically different board state, at which point I needed to completely re-evaluate the board. It was pretty miserable, and the group dynamic reinforced everyone playing slowly. It sounds like Blood On The Clocktower isn't a game for me. I don't tend to like social deduction games anyway, and if I was going to play one I would want an extremely fast playing one.

What is the game on the shelf below Ankh?

Great video, note to self, do not play anything at a convention (If I ever go to one).

Curious...how many games of it did you play?

I once tried to play a rpg at a convention in open room with many tables crowded in, which I've been told is common in the USA, it was terrible. Convention with many small rooms are much better.

First game i played i was so confused as well vuz i didn't know how each character interact with one another. I always you need to play 2 games to guage how it works. And i totally enjoy it even though I was frying my brain the whole time.

Yes!! Alex, I knew you were good people! You're the first content creator I watch that has actually said they like ONUW - it's one of my fave games and it helped me cope after my grandma passed away in 2018 :)

I have ran about 75 of these games and it sounds to me there was 3 issues. Two of the issues I feel like you need to suck it up which are the noise issue and playing with people you don't know. You volunteered to play this game in a loud setting and with how you were able to invite as many people as you liked. You should have expected there would be other players you wouldn't know. You know yourself better than anyone. You should have requested a private game or just not have played. The third issue was your story teller. I'm sorry she sounded like she had no idea what she was doing. You had your eyes closed for 50% of the game is insane. It should have been more like 5-10%. The first night is longest and will take some time but after that your nights should take 2-3 mins at most. It is insane to me that they allowed travelers in a game with so many new people. Your storyteller really needs to improve their game.

I learn from this video, if I will run blood on the clocktower I must: 1) Preper script before people arrive 2) Remove all possible noise. Or don't run game in noisy places 3) For beginers play with maximum 10 players to make less powerful wave of information. 4) Give to all players printed scripts papire. 5) Let them make notes 📝 📋 6) Make fast nights. Befor run night make nots for your self who must be visit.

Yeah, I love watching No Rolls Barred play it, they really showcase the game well. But I don't think it would be my kind of game to actually play, especially not in those circumstances.

Playing in a crowded room is obviously not the game's fault. There is plenty of information to deduce in BotC compared to Werewolf. It sounds like you just played with too many people, especially the first time you're playing. You can also keep talking when your eyes are closed in BotC. How can you judge a game that obviously wasn't played in the right circumstances? Would you play Caverna the first time with 7 players? Also, the teaching would obviously be 0 minutes if everyone had played before. That's a weird criticism.

Point 2 was probably the biggest difference!

I’m never going to play Twilight Imperium ever again, it is the worst game I ever played, because we tried to play it in a Tokyo Train in the busy hour and they served Eel to eat and I hate eel. Worst game ever.

The problem with BOTC is that it's a social deduction game that you want to break out with a large group of people, but it also rewards deep knowledge of the game, since the roles are so plentiful and intricate. Those two things don't go well together - it's not for casual gatherings. Unless . . . you have a persistent large group who are all into it, and can delve deep into the roles and deduce better, through accumulated knowledge of the game.

played for my first time today with 22 people. was chaos

I know this video is a year old at this point, and I'm not just going to join the bandwagon here. I just want to explain is that there are more introvert-friendly ways of enjoying the game. There are options on (free to access) Discord for communicating via text only, or to communicate using voices but no cameras. Most of the online STs I've played with have night phases down to a science. But in your own home, being able to reference the Wiki while playing, or using the online tool to codify the information you receive, makes the game much more tolerable. Unlike NRB, there are some videos of online play no-frills: @Blood On The Clocktower CT @patters, and even the official BOTC channel can illustrate a way to enjoy the game in a more calm, self-controlled atmosphere.

I watched this game get played on the Quackalope Discord back when it was on Kickstarter. That experience made me back the game AND buy One Night Ultimate Werewolf which I’ve enjoyed immensely with 6-8 player counts and plenty of beverages. I think the important takeaway is that no game is right for everyone, nor for any group. Social deduction games require a group of extroverted type A personalities to keep those who are introverts from getting lost in the chaos. Luckily for me, there are lots of extroverted type A personalities in the fire service!!! 😂

Completely agree on wanting "constructs" or any kind of structure really, to social deduction style games. This is the main reason I've backed Veiled Fate. It has enough "substance" in it to keep players engaged regardless of extroverted/introverted styles and whatnot. It seems to reward observation better than talking/convincing which I actually prefer. Still have to play Resistance Avalon, but I've played the original Resistance and also did not enjoy it as much. All play-throughs came to 2-2 ties leading to a last one basically being decided on a toss-up or by whoever talks louder. Avalon seems to offer more structure though.

This video reminds me of Tom Vassel's review on Food Chain Magnate, which he had a horrible experience and absolutely hated the game.

Blod on the clock tower based on Quakalope video reminded me of that one time i partecipated on a live rpg session organized by local that my brother was a regolar of. Having multiple night (assuming that the concept is the same of werewolf) with a lot of player will bee inevitably timeconsuming and i don't find hard to belive that 50% of time was dedicated to it. In the end i think that the take on quakalope video is... wen in doubt, shoot Devin! ;)

All makes sense - sounds like a situation that’d be uncomfortable for many people. I know very little about the game - it was the length of it alone that put me off wanting to look at it. ONU Werewolf is great at 10 minutes, things like Resistance and Mascarade can be great but can also start to drag if they get close to 30mins. I’m not convinced that a social deduction could ever be engrossing over much longer periods. And it may be unfortunate - but it’s hard not to be jaded and cynical about a release after the game has had >3 years of hype.

Well if you like quick games that emphasize following social cues like One Night Ultimate Werewolf, and don't like longer games that emphasize prioritizing logic (over the course of multiple Nights) like Mafia, it's a good guess that you won't like Blood on the Clocktower... With ONUW, I feel like the arguments made are always something that looks like "Oh I heard you breathe louder during the Werewolves' turn, so you must be one of them!". When with games like Mafia (the one I currently host a lot is Town of Salem) it looks more like "I'm the Lookout and I saw that you have visited Tony last Night, so what were you doing? Are you a Doctor, a Sheriff, an Escort, or are you a Blackmailer, or a Consigliere??)

Interesting to see your point of view, and as someone who loves this game, I can't disagree with any of your points. They're all very valid. Some of my worst gaming experiences and come from this game. But they are far outweighed by the number of truly memorable experiences. To people looking to play this for the first time, make sure there are no more than 10 players, or it's gonna kinda suck. It'll be too long, too confusing, and absolutely exhausting.

Fellow introvert here, and I've clocked many many hours of BOTC as a player and a storyteller, at events and conventions. A lot of the comments here defend the game with a "That was too many players, of course that would suck", and yeah I agree. I have an awful in any clocktower game that goes over an hour and a half. While you praise the people for running the game in the way that they did, here's a little breakdown of some things. 45 minutes set up is a LONG time, even for a 20 player game. Most of this has to come from the player count being uncertain, or the storyteller taking way too much time to set up and explain the rules. A 20 player game should have one storyteller doing set up, and another running the rules explanation. Less than half of the characters of Trouble Brewing don't wake at night when you include the travelers, which means to reach a 50% eyes closed the storyteller has to be super slow, or each person waking at night has to be procrastinating a huge amount. In the same way that a dungeon master in DnD has a duty of care to their players to make sure they're having a good time, a storyteller owes you the same. They should not be starting a game in that setting at that player count, and running for that long.

Yikes I backed that one it’s finally on the way.

Also, it’s sad to hear you can’t be yourself in front of others. Hope that is something you can feel better doing

I have never played this game, but I suspect 20 is the player count permitted if you have a group who is very familiar with the game and playing in a casual we-don't-care-how-long-it-takes setting. Like most deduction games of this type, it's really probably best played with far smaller numbers than that. My general rule for all board games is that the less familiar you are with the game, the more you benefit from lower player counts. New games run long, new games take a while for rule explanations, each person has a chance of a misunderstanding or needs clarifications, and each new player is relatively slow. Even your 'my eyes were closed too long' complaint can be explained by your player count - of course your eyes will be closed longer if the game runner is going through twenty roles! If you have less roles potentially in the game, then the game runner doesn't need to pause for ones that everyone knows are not in the game, speeding up the game greatly. Not to mention people will be making their decisions faster. Blood on the Clocktower is a party game. It's a niche game because it's complicated party game, which means it's a party game for folks who are gamers or who intend to play the same game together many, many times. When it was on kickstarter, I realized I did not have the sort of large, cohesive friend group that this required.

I recall Shut up and sit dow go nuts over this. It never lured me in though.

Yeah a large group, in a loud area is exactly the wrong way to experience this game for the first time. 8-12 in a side room is so much better.

Love this game, sorry you had a bad experience

Not to say that you have to try it but, to anyone reading this the game feels less "fuzzy" information wise the smaller the number of players. It actually helps balence the game because every two players is at least another day the demon has to survive to win (baring edge cases like the townsfolk killing the good twin or the saint)

Yeah, running a 20 people game with just beginners at a noisy convention is not a great idea and it is even worse if a lot of the roles act or get information during the night. Heck, even veteran players would have problems during those circumstances. It is a good game but it gets a bit problematic with more then 12 people unless you have a setup that doesn't require many shenanigans during the night like in a Legion game. The night time round needs to go fast and that does either require that everyone know the general rules and understand their character well or that it is a pretty basic scenario with not too many night information gatherers. It is also one of those games that works better if you know the majority of the players. With 20 different roles it gets really hard to actually deduct who is who in either case and I think the game devs were a bit optimistic when setting the upper limit, it can work with experienced players but it can easily become a disaster even with people who played a couple of times before. You probably should have had 8-9 players the first time.

Not a single person I've pulled into this game has disliked it. Your setting and mood were terrible and that's no reason to attack a wonderful game for it.