The DI Box stands for Direct Injection Box. Having your own DI box is the smartest move that you can make. Yep, you never know what beat up turd that's going to be available. If you're not on the main stage, you're going to get the worst of the kit. The other thing is that DI boxes tend to go for long walks and never return, especially when you have so many bands setting up and tearing down in a mad panic. Okay, now the long boring lecture. Read on only if you're wanting to know some things. I believe the box that you're using is a passive DI. That means it requires no external power source to work. I'm preaching to the choir about the difference between active and passive. Passive circuits can attenuate some of the higher frequencies of your signal. You want an ACTIVE DI box. You're passing your entire mix through it... not a bass guitar. Check out the Countryman. It's active. It can be powered by phantom power through the XLR cable or you can insert your own 9V battery like on a guitar pedal. It also features a -15dB and -30dB pad. I have nothing to do with Countryman or Sweetwater. I'm just using this as an example of a better DI, though much more expensive... but WORTH it if you're going to gig with THOUSANDS of dollars of modular. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DT85S The reason why you're plugging into a MIC input is because that's what the house's snake running back to the mixer is set up to feed. Except for EDM, most festivals are going to using a shit-ton of mic inputs. So getting everyone's kit through the mic input is the compromise. The DI will do a couple of things for you. First of all it will allow you to run your signal balanced over the long distance to mixer. Inside the DI is a transformer. That should also isolate your rig from the mixer should something really bad happen on either side of the connection. Nothing like killing someone's mixer or their mixer killing your entire modular set-up. Oh, and put your name on. Preferably have your name engraved. You don't want to get in a screaming match on stage over whose piece of expensive kit is attached to the end of the house's mic cable. Just flip it over and show them your name etched in it... conversation over.

"What went wrong" is a very useful concept for videos. I haven't performed live yet but want to and this is the kind of information I would like to have in advance. Thanks.

Thanks a lot for the information, and I'm really glad to hear the second gig went great, I was watching live actually.

A live problem I used to have - I had a contact mic set up to trigger sequenced notes on my Nord Micromodular, plus a whole pile of other noisy things. When I practised at home I used headphones and it worked, then at gigs the PA would generally make the contact mic feedback and cause chaos.

Thanks man!!! Bad news you experienced that signal incompatibility. Thanks for the tips!!!

Good choice on the Radial. Every keys/synth player I've met who cares about their sound carries their own DI. Because at most gigs the DI supplied by the PA guy is gonna be a Behringer or something like that. Which is acceptable for most situations but isn't gonna handle the super hot output that a analog synth can generate. I'd say the situation you ran into the DI didn't have a PAD switch or it wasn't engaged. The reason the PA guy will always run the keys via a DI is it helps isolate any ground loops/hum issues, especially since stage power will usually be on a different circuit to the FOH power. Transformer-isolated DI boxes can lose a little bit of sub bass going through the transformer

Yes, yes, yes!.. brilliant video.. learn from the pain of others..stage gigs and in particular, festivals can be a mine field of potential fails.. DI boxes are very effective ways of reducing the risk of earth loops in live environments as good ones are usually transformer isolated

Great post, @mylarmelodies! Something beyond the normal "twist & squonk" - and let me be clear, I love twist & squonk - I appreciate the substance - you and Nick B. rule my little corner of the KZfaq kingdom!

as a former live sound engineer it cringes me that your only option was to stop the gig. I'm very sorry to hear that. however from a technical standpoint: Eurorack outputs a VERY hot signal (about 10 Volts peak to peak) this is way beyond "normal" line-levels that are expected in a live situation. And although some DI boxes can handle it, I guess it would be even better to have an actual line output. I think doepfer has a line output module and intellijel also has one (Audiointerface II)

Using some small mixer in between the main console and the system helps a lot and give an opportunity to control the levels. You just feed the master output to the sound guy.

goood hints .... thanks a lot for your honesty ....

Very interesting! I like the "learn from experience"! Personnally I check level live with the help of a small independent mixer (compact mackie) where I can monitor the level on pre-fader mode and eventually use an independent monitor output. An indepent mixer has also the advantage of normalizing your signal and directly send it to symmetrical connectors like XLR. One other precaution, less usual and still rarely adressed: Fuse the power case of your modular system if not already done Cheers,.

My modular lives plugged into two radial boxes. I use their PROAV boxes which are designed for line level input and can take pretty much any kind of line level plug with pad switches built in, pretty handy for super hot euro level.

Sounds like your modular was plugged into one of those DI's that's sneakily also a guitar DI box optimised for low voltage coil outputs.. Possibly switched wrongly as well (oh god I hate that +3 dBi switch with a passion) That's gonna clip like hell.. Feels so bad man, and on a festival too. That sound engineer definitely fucked up real bad..

I use the Radial ProAV2. Designed for line level signals and I find it handier for synths and such with its RCA plugs as well as1/4” plugs.

Last gig I played with two Mother 32s there were car alarms going off nearby, and the sub bass was more a feeling to me on stage so I could not possibly change the tuning. I think a visual tuner is a great idea in live situations.

Oh man, that sucks. We've all been there w bad live sound. Good idea bringing your own DI box. The countryman DI box is solid as well.

Sounded great at Chapter.

You can get Performance Mixer by WMD, that will solve so much problems (the biggest in your case, I think, is mono master output, MONO!.. 2017..eh), or at least you can get sort of standard mini mixing desk with pfl or cue (pre-fader listen via headphones to osc tuning, checking patches and presets etc) to mix all your end points in better quality and in stereo at list to balanced outputs. Little advice from sound guy ;) By the way I like your cannel pretty much!

The best way to solve this is to design your system ouput to plug it straight in to a dj mixer, but it is always handy to have youre own DI box

I'm using a small Mackie 402 VLZ mixer with my modular. Separate headphone level (you can turn the master level completely, down, and still hear the signal in headphones - you only loose the metering indication), balanced outputs (albeit on jacks, so I bring my own jack->XLR cords). No need for a DI, and the sound guy is always happy. Oh, and it costs less then that Radial DI ;-)

Using Di box to convert the signal means you get the inherent noise cancelling properties of XLR cables. This can be important if using a stage box with really long cables back to a sound desk. Bummed to hear you had a bad experience...that really sucks. Love your videos dude!

I will, at some point, take a small modular case out live. Before that happens, I’d like a couple of EMOM spots under my belt to iron out issues just such as these. Output module first I think…

I just plug into one channel of dj mixer (I have the Rosie output with stereo jack to 2 rca's output). And the sound engineers never stopped me from doing that (so far). It is also easier to transition to your set when there's someone playing dj set right before you. I still have a Streams as a compressor though, so if some weird stuff happens I know it won't blow everything up!

Why sound guys use mic inputs : they have way more range than line ins. I always bring my own DIs for modular. Also DIs have pads, so you get more control ! Those Radial DIs are awesome for modular. Not cheap but we spend tons on money on modules we might as well get a good DI.

Orchid Electronics are worth a look next time you're in need of a DI box. Although I suspect the Radial may out-live all of us...

i run my signal from an output module (Pittsburgh Outs) to a DBX Go Rack and from there into a Stereo Radial DI box. If i have to plug my system into a DJ Mixer in a club, then i swap the Radial for a Palmer Stereo Isolator which has RCA outputs. Until now, i've never had too many problems, only tuning the modular during a gig became sometimes a bit stressful..there i need to find a better solution..a tuner or something

AFAIK you would use the mic input instead of line input to cut down on potential noise from lighting rigs/equipment. It should also curb the low pass filtering you can experience with long lengths of cable sorry to hear about the shitty sound down the line all the same

i love your watch!

I played a short set with my euro with a friend on his 909, people were putting their beers next to my $$$ shit, my friend turned the lights off so we couldn't see well, we weren't synced, just doing it by ear, acoustic in room were ehh, and it was all going through a shitty amp. At the end people were like "ooh, weird sounds!" and then went back to watching a movie or something. What you do in a studio has almost no relation to playing live; there's a reason playing with a multi person **Band** is a totally different experience than a 1-person gig, and real pro bands have a team of pro engineers constantly adjusting dynamics, each person on stage with their own monitors.

had this literal problem at my homeparty where i performed a smal techno set. the bass was collecting in the corner and i couldn't hear shit from my lead voices . but i'm also an idiot, because i literally have a mixer with a headphone out and i totally forgot it. :D

Hot Glue can get pretty hot depending how you're running it! PA companies will be expecting 2V/Line Level that thing can hit 20V when cranked! Any decent DI, KT/BSS/Radial with a pad will handle it tho. KT has 20 -40 dB pad, BSS 15dB & 30dB. As for converting to XLR it's about converting to a balanced signal. Don't forget, in the not so distant past, that signal could be travelling 100m down a copper multicore to the FOH console. Not so common these days as most companies are digital & the processing is on stage. XLR however remains the standard. I've played out live with the Hot Glue, Dubmix & WMD PM & never had an issue, always gone thru their mic/Di compliment & chosen my own tho. Weird how they said the signal looked good at their end. I mean, if it's clean in your cans & distorted on their console then that's definitely an issue they should deal with. Too many small festivals on low budgets with not so pro audio companies these days, gives the good guys a bad name. Wise idea picking up your own box, Radials are great. I'd go for active boxes btw but some people prefer the sound of passive, either way, make sure it has at least 20dB Pad & preferably an Earth lift.

You have done your due diligence in being prepared with that level box/compressor at the end of your chain. If the guy was smart, he would understand that line level is about 1000x louder than mic level, the mixer then wouldn't have to work to bring your signal up to a workable volume. Now he may have run you trough a DI to prevent high signal spikes, at line level-but with a digital mixer (especially in a love situation) he probably had some sort of "clipping prevention" switched on, which happen to sound very much like wet goat farts when you are driving them, as they are not designed to be driven. They put these limiters on there so the live performance isn't ruined, and you can have time to fix the issue with some finesse. They sound guy may have not noticed how hot he had the level, because of the "clipping limiter" in the digital mixers DSP. I made the same mistake when I first got my modular gear. - and/or you are correct and the DI was complete shit.

What is your VCA module(s) ?

DI boxes are used to isolate the signal path so you don’t have ground loops that can damage your equipment.

If I understand it correctly I believe similar goal could be achieved by having a special output module, like WMD Pro Output which sends out a balanced signal. But I see that you released this 5 years ago where this module did not even exist hehe.

FYI, apparently the reason they use DI boxes for live venues is that it reduces the signal loss for long cable runs. When you have those cables running all the way from the stage to back of house. Though I always thought that balanced TRS cable did that as well. No point arguing with sound guys though. I use the exact same DI by the way, go team Radial. Also I expect if you weren't using an output module, your signal would have been clipped at about 1.4v (the usual maximum for like audio afaik), which is probably why you lost all that frequency content. I am in no way a sound engineer though.

How is the System 80 Jove? Definitely been curious about it but very very few demos of it so far.

you output your entire system in mono? do you use a mixer module for panning or it is all centered? thanks man, love your music and your channel! greetings from Argentina

If I am going to use a decent external mixer (mackie or allen and heath or alesis) and send the stereo out from there, do you think I still should have a DI box?

While it might have been a knackered DI box (and if you plan to play like, you SHOULD take your own DI box '.'), it sound more like user error from your description. It almost certainly sounds like an underpowered rig, an incorrectly managed gain structure and mixer setup, overambitious compression, and perhaps even a limiter setup that hasn't been bypassed (see places with small boxes, usually on the ceiling, with a load of coloured lights that represent the sound level). Almost all DI boxes will have an inbuilt pad, and almost all DI boxes will have a 'full frequency response 20-20k'. The point of using a DI box is that it uses either a transformer or an op-amp stage to perform impedance matching between the low-impedance output of an amplifier, with the high impedance input that a mixing desk preamplifier has. There are many good reasons of mixing desk inputs to be hi-impedance, including not busting the output stage of your amplifier. Unfortunately, one of the many symptoms of plugging a low-z (low impedance) output, through long cables which also have an impedance, to a high-z (high impedance) input is that your get the same reflections that you describe in your spring reverb video. Also the output/input levels and up mismatched. Impedance matching is one of the main reasons that 99% of the time, if it isn't a microphone, it will be plugged into the mixer via a DI box. This is incidentally also why good multicore 'snakes' are so expensive, the classic non-cat 5 snakes have a load of transformers at one end which perform impedance matching. Also remember that if your eurorack system is 20vp-p (+-10v) you will be too hot, as 'professional' (+4dBu) level is 1.74v peak, so really you need an output attenuator with a gain of 0.1 (10 times smaller). If i was really smart, I would design an output module or case attachment for eurorack that includes a gain stage and an impedance matching transformer. But I guess most people who take their rack out to play with friends, probably just plug direct into their own mini-mixer.

take your own mixer with xlr out - bypass the di altogether - i am lucky to have the rotary rane...

Can't you just use an Output Module like Befaco Out into the Line Input of the Mixer?

This article lists a bunch of great reasons to use a DI box -- including one I hadn't thought of, accidental phantom power! www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-there-any-point-di-ing-keyboards

Great vid as always, dude! first, thank you for the reminder about hearing protection! so many people realize they're fucking up their ears once the damage is done. As for the shitty situation with the sound system, I think it's cool that you put your experience out there for others to learn from. I had something similar happen back in my sweaty basement laptop show days. I was assured the PA could handle line level inputs, so I left the mixer at home. I got all set up on a rickety card table, triggered the first scene in Ableton, and got nothing but 'drowning tractor' noises. For whatever reason, my channel strips and master limiter were fucking the whole system up, so I had to delete them on the fly while the first 8 bars of my remix of Disclosure's "White Noise" looped about 40 million times. Fortunately, I was able to get a limiter on the master channel, just for safety's sake, but without my channel strips, all my eq controls were gone, and the room was totally acoustically fucked. I'd spent 2 months prepping for this show. All my friends were there to see me play. So I turned down the master, told everyone the sound system was fucked and i'd do my best, and triggered the next scene. Long story short, I spent the whole set laying chest down on the PA cabinet, dialing in the sound, in the dark, upside down, then running to the table to trigger a clip and tweak some effects, then running to the back of the room to hear what it sounded like since there were no monitors, then repeating the process. It was gut-wrenching and mortifying for the first couple minutes. Honestly, if I had been sober, I may have been in tears, but by that point in the evening I pretty tipsy and my internal monologue was like "hey, no big deal, fuck it". I slipped into the zone and just did whatever I could, and suddenly, the last 16 bars of the set were fading out... It was actually a really great experience because it was really shitty, but nobody booed or left or laughed at me.

Just wondering are you using a GoPro cam to record this

:) !! My Friend !!

Sorry to hear about this bummer. Actually I would like to give another piece of advice. If you´re going to tour seriously then I can highly recommend a UPS. This will let your system survive a sudden loss of power and power surges. But perhaps most important, the UPS will feed your system with a perfectly balanced current. More than once I have had peculiar behaviour from my rig because of this.

sound-checks are useful

Oh dude!!! Those fuckers!!! He probably plugged you into a guitar DI box... DAMN!!!!

I tried signing up the $10 level at Patreon and that level is sold out???

That is exactly the reason why I'm gonna be my own sound engineer when I'm going to play live with my modular rig.

I had this same experience with an arp 2600. They were using these boxes and it sounded like shit. Then i found out that 90 percent of the sound guys had zero experience mixing anything stranger than an organ or an electric piano. Its still like that even now. And the high out put di boxes for keybourds suck too! Good luck. This is why i leave the modular at home. Even dead 🐭does his mix on stage himself ... and brings no modular. its one of the biggest problems with live electronic gigs to this day. Tangerine dream and kraftwerk blew so many sound systems in the old days. The little guys like us are much better off playing small clubs with stuff like that on stage. Workstations are built for that purpose and designed to sound good in big venues and be easy to transport, but the look at me thing wins out over common sense I guess. Peace christo

Why not just bring the mixer along to the gig? headphones - Sorted Output - Sorted EFX - Sorted :)

Word up. after 25+ years of djing recording and generally listening to loud music ive noticed a decline in my hearing

How about modular to small mixer to house mixer.

Better without background music as can focus on the speech. Especially for some people who maybe aint native in english. Otherwise very nice vids thank you!

Clipping the Mic input (even with the pad inserted) on the mixer?? You really NEED to go into a line input.

Straight from the horse's mouth: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DI_unit#Purpose

dam bro sorry

live is a pain in the ass. we stopped trusting the events and their experts. that means we even take our own cables (even for pa) and mixer with us... and we are synth guys :D sooo sad. don´t trust the event

Подари модулятор?))))) очень надо....)))