UPDATE 11 SEPT. New photos on Reddit show BOTH PROPS FEATHERED!. Left prop located behind the left wing.

We flew a B55 Baron for 10 years and I can remember my Dad talking about how the Baron was non recoverable in a flat spin. We had the bird from 1983 to 1993 in between a 2 Bonanza's and 2 C310's. We had VG's installed on the Baron and were doing stalls but Dad said we aren't doing full power or single engine stalls cause we don't need to die today. It was rather chilling but he told me we were flying a twin engine F33 and even though the Baron had a bigger tail it wasn't big enough. I never forgot that. So we did slow flight and also did stalls at lower power. The stalls were very docile. This picture looks to show the right engine feathered witch is a red flag to me. There were a couple guys in a Baron decades ago doing training in a Baron over the Florida Everglades Dad told me about who got into a flat spin and survived because they mushed into the swamp which absorbed they spin. Story was they tried every possible thing to get out of it and nothing came close to working. They tried swaping power on the engines and were able to reverse the spin but could never get the airplane to even hint at nose down. Gear, flaps you name it but no joy. Thanks for sharing!

I just scored an old stamped American Airlines mechanic’s tool chest and box set on Facebook marketplace. I’m restoring them. There is an old quote pasted inside the toolbox: “Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.”

My mother was a pharmacist for Raley's for 30 years, and Richard was the examiner who did my initial CFI checkride. This one hits a little close to home. Sobering that something like this can happen to even the most experienced pilots in the nicest of airplanes. Hopefully we can all learn from accidents like these, condolences to the families and friends left behind.

Juan if KZfaq demonetizes these videos then they are idiots. You are providing valuable lessons with each vid teaching people how to survive in airplanes. Thank you.

Juan, you do a great job discussing these accidents and gleaning what we as pilots should look out for while being respectful to those involved. Appreciate you.

The photo of its final resting place is haunting, somehow worse than a burned wreckage. Clearly as you said a flat spin. Must have been awful, RIP

“The most dangerous mission is a training flight.” - Ex Navy Carrier Pilot I know.

That’s a shame. Such a beautiful plane and sounds like two great guys. I saw that plane at McClellan last year. Had no idea who it belonged to but took a picture because it was so beautiful. 😔

As a very young check airman, on a 135 new hire check ride, I failed an engine in a Chieftian soon after takeoff. I was looking for just a correct identification and planned on giving the engine back. He was highly skilled and very fast with emergencies. Furthermore, two high time Chieftian pilots. The aircraft was set up for aircargo and full of fuel. Before I could restore the mixture Mike had already secured the engine.....at barely 150 ft in a densely populated area. The Chieftian would not climb. I told him: "my aircraft" and found myself with an aircraft that I could not trim nor affect elevator even with brute force full aft. 150ft agl attempting to avoid obstacles maneuvering above a 6 lane highway, all just above VMC. Only correct move I made was taking the aircraft. Unwittingly this truely saved us. All the engine start controls are easily accessed from left seat and my left seater without hesitation began restart procedures. A 5 or 6 minute nightmare that saw us struggle as the 540 had essentially "vapor locked" and required full throttle and mixture at idle cut off which Mike had never performed. When the engine finally roared to life and we began climbing, I terminated the ride and told him to take us back. After much hanger talk and much head scratching, we discovered with 2 pilots, no interior and full fuel, we were out of CG, some 3 or 4 inches forward of the limit! Lesson here? Be wary of training flights! Especially, piston twins. Be very aware of CG, even though you are well below gross weight.

Juan, Great job as always, just wanted to let you know I knew Richard Conte at the Sacramento FSDO and he was probably the best FAA guy I ever met. Really knowledgeable and helpful. The engines on a 1984 58 Baron and all later year models are TCM IO-550C. IO-520CB was used up to 1983 when the Baron 58 underwent significant changes in 1984. New instrument panel, separate dual controls (no more center control with control arms and/or he throw over yoke), gear and flap switches were now in their proper place, small increase in gross weight from 5,400 # to 5,500# and there were several other small changes. Dimensional, it was the same airplane.

Thank you for reassessment of basic points of flight instruction. Information all of us to constantly review and self evaluate.

Juan, I think you are on the money with your analysis. I managed to stall a Twin Comanche (while giving engine out instruction) at altitude and learned a valuable lesson. I never did that again!!! Seems likely that at the high density altitude in this case that’s what might have happened. One thing I learned in my many years of instructing is that training can quickly become counter productive. The training risks often outweigh the safety benefits intended. It seems to occur all too often, and experienced instructors (myself included) can often be too confident in their ability to handle these situations.

I've got a lot of time in the baron both the 260 horse and the 285 horsepower models. I have been an instructor and a DPE in light aircraft for several years. I'm retired now. Decades ago the US Army did a study on this model of Beechcraft because they were experiencing a lot of accidents. The Army used to operate the baron and it was a difficult airplane to control in vmc demonstrations. This sounds like just more of the same.

This is crazy! I tracked that bird that morning! It flew nearly over my house around 0745 and I usually if in the house will check out one flying by on flightaware. It left Calaveras to Modesto then bounced over to Tracy shortly after. Man oh man. RIP gentlemen

Just started my multi training in a G58 with a very experienced instructor. Thank you for your detailed examination of this accident with what is available. A flat spin has to be the most terrifying kind of spin cause only a tremendous amount of horsepower can get you out of it and it is exceptionally rare.

Asymmetric demonstration and recoveries are probably one of the most dangerous maneuvers you can do in aircraft. All the way up to transport category aircraft. I've lost count of the amount of fatal accidents i've read over my time in aviation because of it - and they continue to happen. One of the greatest reasons we now use simulators instead of doing it for real. It's such a shame there still isn't affordable and realistic simulator options for the smaller end of multi engine planes and the practise of doing checks and training in actual aircraft is prohibited.

Juan. Excellent explanation of the dangers of when Vmca approaches stall speed.

Another really sad one Juan. It’s over four and half decades since I did this sort of training, and I never ever underestimated the risk if things were in any way mishandled. As always- thanks for your work on this.

I'm not an instructor, but I remember my old instructors use to let me go as far as I could recovering from emergency situations. Although none of my instructors has to take over... I feel there has got to be an incredible critical time where instructors have to decide when to take over... in microseconds. I think you are spot on in the overconfident assessment.. even if just a little.

Juan, do you remember the name “William Kerschner”? 50 years ago, he was fairly recognized, as one of THE “Go-To guys”, in the civilian flight training world. He wrote several manuals, pertaining to flight training. I have memories, of seeing a video, sometime in the early 1980’s, that I think Mr Kerschner produced, on the topic of “spins”. The subject of “aftermarket V.G.’s” was touched. Those devices, on some docile planes, in a developed spin, seemed to make a previously controllable plane uncontrollable, once established in a spin. Ever since seeing that “material”, I have been somewhat less than enthusiastic about aftermarket V.G.’s.

thanks Juan, your accident analysis presentations are always very informative and interesting for us laymen albeit simultaneously sad...thank you for sharing your intelligence and experience...RIP to the pilots and condolences to their families...

I agree - a constant altitude with decreasing speed would be a Vmc demo. As an instructor, you should be limiting rudder travel with your foot and be ready to yank the power on both engine as soon as LOC starts to happen, along with full rudder and down elevator to dump lift (avoid the stall). It's a risky maneuver, as they go. You DO NOT want to stall a twin - ever.

Thank you for all the work you put into making these and other videos. It is extremely valuable for everyone to learn more.

Thanks for the explanation about mass location and spin. Never heard that before.

The method I used to train for Vmca was to reduce the amount of rudder available for the student which caused an artificial Vmca which was above the stall speed of the aircraft.

Yep probably a Vmc demo gone wrong. I was an MEI while working my way up and by far ME training was the most dangerous instruction I ever did. You had to put you, your student, and the airplane in bad situations to make the training realistic. I taught in the Piper seminole which only had 160 normally aspirated HP a side....less up at altitude. Not enough to get into big trouble during a botched Vmc demo. But the Baron with those big turbo engines is another story. The twin comanche with it's tip tanks was also notorious for flat spins if mishandled during training. I was taught to pull power and drop the gear in a flat spin. The idea being gear drag would pull the nose down to a positive AOA and the wings are flying again and the rudder effective to allow recovery. Fortunately I never had to put that to the test. RIP to these two souls.

Another superb review of currently know and obvious incident evidence along with an explanation of aircraft specific stall characteristics and general stall and stall recovery procedures. You are one of, if not the best GA incident video producers in KZfaq .

Juan thank you for the concise and accurate breakdown...this one was brutal...condolences to both families

Thanks Juan. As a pilot myself I find questioning many training’s that I received or gave in the past and we had similar conditions. Ex. altitudes around (5000’), slow flight, and engine failure identification techniques. We were in that coughing margin. RIP Sad loss.

It always saddens me to hear of these crashes, I had wanted to be a licensed pilot when I was younger but life just got in the way, love working on aircraft. We lost a pilot here at Minter and he will be missed. 🙏⚘️♥️🇺🇸

Did my PPL checkride with Conte. RIP

Excellent video, Juan. You note at 11:32 that Vsse (intentional one engine inoperative speed) is 86 KIAS in the Baron. You also show an excerpt from the Baron POH warning that minimum control training and checkrides should never be conducted below Vsse. Temp at KSAC around the time of the accident was 25 degrees C. That would put the temp at 5000 feet at roughly 15 degrees C. At a pressure altitude of of 5000 feet and 15 degrees C, 86 KCAS translates to 94 KTAS. Based on the 360 turns performed right before the spin, it appears winds at altitude were 10 knots out of the west. As the plane was on a north heading, the direct crosswind would not have affected groundspeed by more than about one knot. ADS-B shows the plane at 94 knots groundspeed and in a climb of 320 fps just before the departure into the spin.

Juan, Thank you for your excellent aviation reports. (Been with you since early Oroville Dam, and learned so much about aviation, dam structures, off-road motorcycling, and how to be a great Dad & husband).

Manual page (@12:22) sez: "The following procedure shall be used at a safe altitude of at least 5000 feet above the ground in clear air only." but your flightaware chart shows them below 5000 feet for the entire flight.

As always, information and precise. Thank you. Stay safe.

Thanks Juan for your detailed analysis of this tragic accident. Like many others have said, I only hope we can derive some life saving education from this terrible accident. Thank you also Juan for using my photos in a way that tells the story such that people better understand what likely happened and how to avoid this outcome.

It may also have been a power off stall recovery gone bad. The one real Vmc I got into was as a MEI in a Seneca. The commercial student was practicing power off stalls to a full break. On one recovery he added power before getting the nose down and airspeed above blue line. One engine came on line, but the other engine “coughed”. Since we were below Vmca the airplane immediately rolled past 90 degrees. Fortunately I use to teach aerobatics and immediately pushed forward on the yoke, unloading the flight controls, while simultaneously bringing both throttled to idle. We were able to immediately recover. The very startled student asked, “What the %^*# was that?” I responded, “That was a Vmc roll.” It was much more abrupt than the Vmc maneuver we practice,

Outstanding video and presentation.

Very informative Juan. I appreciate all the details in your explanation. This is scary because this seems like one of those maneuvers that’s too dangerous to practice for the odd chance that you’d actually find yourself in this situation. Also this is the first time I’ve heard an examiner being fatally injured during a check ride. So sad. My condolences to everyone involved.

Juan should be an NTSB investigator. He’s very knowledgeable.

I remember reading at one point in the late 1950s or the 1960s there were more twin engine fatals from training/instruction then from engine out crashes in singles.

Thank you for providing some insight into the relationship between Vmc, stall speed, density altitude and how they can aggravate the recovery from an accidental spin. I watched that part twice.

I still remember the vmc demo from my multi training 20 years ago. Holding that configuration and feeling the ailerons stop having roll control was super fascinating to me.

Thanks Juan. I always learn something from you.

This stall/crash appears to have been at an altitude where a Cirrus type chute could have saved the pilots. These events are tragic and my heart goes out to the families and friends. Sincere thanks Juan.

I haven’t done any Vmc demos or single engine work in my 310 since 2003. I do it in the simulator every two years. Not worth the risk but to each their own.

The early-block P-38 had both props turning the same way, resulting in a tendency to roll if you lost an engine, especially at low speeds. When they went to counter-rotating props, the Lockheed pilot went around to the bases saying "The left engine is no longer the critical engine . . .with this new setup, BOTH engines are critical!"

Excellent video, Juan. I got my multiengine rating in 1990 and haven't flown a twin since the 90's, but I do remember the VMC demo. Of course I studied the literature first, but I wasn't smart enough to realize it was such a high risk maneuver.

These cases becoming quite common. This is truly tragic and very sad. You are far more knowledgeable and experienced than I. Someway somehow a change has to be made. Thank you Juan for keeping informed, your work is invaluable.

hi juan.. Indonesian Navy Bonanza training plane crash on java sea near surabaya 2 days ago.. 2 fatalities... rip..

Thanks Juan. As a pilot this one is very haunting.

Thank you Juan for all your recent reports on these terrible incidents. Aviation is such a tried & tested & trusted form of travel and it has been for soooo many years...yet it's also such a finicky form of travel of a fine line of procedures for it to have become so...and how those procedures and processes are so vital to successful operations of an aircraft are imperative...and to those such as yourself who are pilots...more respect to you and all...as recent times have shown that it can become such a traumatic event when something goes awry!!!! Many many more safe flights to yourself and all those that take on the great beyond in aviation!!!! Cheers from Sydney Aus!!!!

One again your insight, thoughtfulness, and compassion has helped us all be better pilots. My prayers and best wishes go out to our lost friends and their families.

This accident certainly gave me pause. I am training for Comm Multi in a 310. Thanks for covering this particular accident. We definitely lost some good pilots.

Juan, Thank you for your consistently great coverage of airplane mishaps. It saddens and concerns me as to the sheer number of crashes and lives lost due to airplane crashes, especially the last few months. We as a pilot group, and CFi's, need to do a better job and stay at the top of our game. As a retired 747 Captain and current CFIA/CFII I have seen it all and recently don't like what I see. I require my current students to do more than just be able to fly a plane. Threat assessment, decision making, complete preflight briefing, etc, etc are just as, if not more important, for a successful flight.

Great explanation of vmca and critical engine Juan , you are the go to guy for “anything aviation” avait navigate communicate

I think I experienced something like this in the new Xplane 12 simulator. I was taking off with the beechcraft baron and I theorized that I can turn faster by differentiating throttle inputs as I was climbing out just like we used differential braking during taxi with taildraggers. Before I could realize what was happening, the wing dropped, plane started to spin around dropping rapidly out of the sky slamming into the ground. It was crazy how fast everything happened!

Richard was supposed to do my next two checkrides. Requiescat in pace Richard.

An object in motion tends to stay in motion. Thanks so much Juan !

I can’t help but imagine the last moments of these crashes. May these men Rest In Peace and be honored by their friends and family.

"Take off power" can be interpreted in two ways. If you are "taking off", you want "take off power". If you are in the air, you want "full power". During the Berlin Airlift, the U.S. lost a C-47 when the monitoring pilot yelled, "Take off power" to the pilot in command. The pilot in command promptly idled the engines and crashed the plane. The term, "Take off power" should never be uttered in a cockpit.

Your analysis' always demonstrate a comprehensive and in depth knowledge that is immensely useful and meaningful-

I remember getting an MEI that the most dangerous part was teaching a student VMCA because if they messed up the recovery it was very important to take over and correctly recover before it was too late. The first and most important thing to do if the plane starts yawing is cut the power on the full power engine. (That should stop the yawing moment) while simultaneously lowering the nose and applying opposite rudder.

Great job Juan. As usual explained in detail .

I flew with Richard 5 years ago, and we had many mutual friends. I was in Galt for work the week before this accident. I even got a few phone calls from coworkers in Galt that day. So sad all the way around.

One of the reasons the twin Comanche I flew for years had such a bad rap. Back then the instructor would teach at low altitude and with initially low power settings before adding power to the single engine. Disproportionate number of twin Comanches went in because there was such a large training fleet of PA30s. When I did my rides, we were at 4500 ft agl.

Thanks a million Mr Browne. 👍👍 So sad. 🙏🙏🙏

I am retired airline, former USAF fighter pilot and have owned baron BE-58s for over 20 years. I am risk adverse. I've had instructors asking me to do a Vmc demo down to 88 kias. I always say no thank you. I will go down to 100 kias. The track record of flying barons single engine slow is terrible. It doesn't make any sense to die doing some artificial demo. Single engine best rate of climb is 100 kias so why would you ever be below 100 kias unless you are just ready to land? Single engine approach speed is 107 kias by the way. The minimum approach speed for practicing single engine work is called Vsse. It is a minimum speed not THE speed in my humble opinion. I am very aware of the great danger flying twins anywhere near the stall and Vmca region. The baron is a great plane but we need to cut out this slow speed single engine training stuff, it is deadly.

RIP. Condolences and prayers for the families. Thank you JB for this report. 🙏

I learn so much from your channel Juan! Thank you for taking the time to post all your videos and the professionalism that goes into your presentations!

Hello sir, random subscriber here. Hope your well! I randomly stumbled upon a crash in Santa Monica California/Airport. 2 fatalities(student and teacher) unfortunately. I thought this accident would be of interest for you to skillfully breakdown. Thanks again for all that you do!

This is so sad, I had a checkride scheduled with Richard in 2 weeks from now

Very saddening 😢. My heart goes out to the loved ones they left behind. I truely know the absolute and intense horror sudden loss leaves us with. worse is pervading intensity of every atom around us reminds us of them. mainly in hope it was all incorrect, some kind of admin or name mixup, and they still exist. seeking, painfully, for a tiny scrap of our hope to be realised. and that never stops. Ever.

Thank you for covering this.

In my flying lessons, which I am still doing, the spin and spiral recovery scared the living daylights out of me the first time we did it. They still do! My lessons are in a Piper Cherokee and a Warrior. The Cherokee for the spins and other like maneuvers. Losing nearly 1000 feet in a spiral so quickly is a huge eye opener at how dangerous it is to get into one, especially when turning final. My deepest sympathies to the families and friends of the two who perished.

What a bad couple weeks we're having in the aviation world. Bad year, if I'm honest. Prayers for the families of these 2 men. R.I.P.

Very sorry to hear that . Condolences to the families.

Thanks for proving this valuable service Juan.

Great explanation flew the c402 1000s of hours in the 80s, RIP,

That was a lot of good info

I live in Elk Grove, just a few miles north of the accident site, and it has indeed been crazy hot this last week, in the 108° to 116°F range in mid afternoon for several days running. I learned a lot from this video; for example, I didn't know that twin engines can make it more difficult to recover from a spin than a single engine in an aircraft of the same size and weight. It sounds to me as if there is a possibility that, had the flight been in a Cessna Caravan, with it's single engine, the unrecoverable spin might have been averted. First the mid-air collision at Watsonville and now this, 4 people killed in just a couple of weeks in small aircraft here in Nor-Cal. Very sad for the families of these men.

Juan, Excellent report - thank you. Too bad another tragedy. Paul (in MA)

You always refer back to what you have said before. We certainly appreciate it, and we always remember what you've said. Case in point: You can stall at any speed but at only one critical angle of attack. It might be annoying if it wasn't about aviation, where it can be the difference between life and death. We appreciate your attitude and that is, and that is education. They shouldn't de-monitize any of your videos for that reason. Condolences to the pilots and their families.

These are wonderful, sobering and haunting breakdowns, Juan, as always. I learn so much from your analyses. As a former multi CFI, my question is how do you then teach VmC, or slow flight regime in general in light twins? Should we just mandate that all such training be in sims? Do the costs outweigh the benefits?

Thank you for the report, sir. I know these accidents are never fun to get sorted out to do the reports. Good luck. 👍

May God comfort the families of these pilots. My sincerest condolences. Thanks Juan.

I used to charter a Beach Baron and the pilot would let me sit in co and take the stick on the flights... I loved it!

It is shocking when something like this happens with a lot of experience in the cockpit!

Practicing VMC maneuvers in a Baron, I said to my instructor "I feel like I am poking a viper with a stick." His reply "Well, you are!"

So important: "Stay in the books." R.I.P. airmen.

one of my friends crashed while taking the commercial pilot check ride in a piper satatoga with a DPE. the DPE cut power to simulate engine failure. my friend hit trees on short final and crashed onto the end of the runway. both men were thrown clear of the plane and survived the DPE had a broken arm. the plane burst into flames. the DPE was cited in the accident report as contributing to the accident by failure to initiate power before hitting the trees. since then the runway threshod was displaced. KSSI.

I had never heard of a rudder stall before. This must have been a terrifying way to go.

GREAT VIDEO, JUAN GREAT JOB...

According to Scott Perdue over at Flywire you may actually need to pull back on the elevator too help recover from a spin. That's because when you're falling flat the elevator blocks air that's rushing up from below from hitting the rudder. Raising the elevator lets some of this air wash over the rudder giving it more authority and once you stop spinning then you push forward on the yoke. You can look up his video on the subject titled "J35 Bonanza Power-On Stall / Spin" and he goes into detail at 10:14 of said video.

My mom's boss fatally spun in his Baron on take off years ago on my B'day shortly after I passed my written. Needless to say, bc of that I'm always interested in light Twin mishaps like this. Thanks!

RIP to the pilots and their families and friends. Thank you for explaining the complications encountered when operating light twin engine aircraft.

Richard Conte was a great guy and my DPE.

Juan - at my flight school we had a PA-44 spin. Instructor and student started at 6500 or so. For some reason during a stall recovery the airplane entered a spin with an aggressive wing drop. About 2500ft AGL they were 90° nose down according the data cards. At the last second the instructor added asymmetric thrust opposite the spin and it recovered at roughly ~800ft AGL. FAA and NTSB got involved to figure out what happened. Obviously conflicting reports from the student and instructor but either way a terrifying picture was painted. Goes to show that multiengine twin maneuvering - not just VMC demos - is incredibly dangerous to pilots.

Mind boggling how highly qualified professional pilots make the same mistake over and over and over.