"toby is apart of hr, so hes not really apart of our family... hes also divorced so hes really not even apart of his family" -michael scott

"I would shoot Toby twice" is one of the best scenes ever... this relationship was pure gold! 🤣🤣🤣

Just made me realize how good Steve is at improv and yet had to act really badly for Michael's actual improv class

The fact that Toby being the perfect antithesis to Michael was from an ad lib just makes that more hilarious to me. Since it's never brought up in the actual series, we as viewers are led to believe that Michael's hatred of Toby just gradually becomes more and more visible made even more ironic that he's the only office worker that he can't fire. It also adds to the irony that Michael marries Toby's replacement Holly while Toby ends the series single and fired. So, in a weird way, Michael still wins.

I always got the sense that Micheal projected his insecurities/fears onto Toby and projected his delusions of grandeur onto Ryan. That's why he's so irrational when dealing with them

I just don't get why they had to eventually make everyone else start to hate Toby, too. He was actually pretty popular with the rest of the office in the early seasons, then they just made him a complete joke to everyone

I’m actually surprised that people are saying Michael and Toby’s dynamic didn’t make any sense in the show. It made perfect sense to me. Michael is a walking HR nightmare. In any other normal office, Michael would have been fired for even just a fraction of the problematic things he said and did throughout the course of his time on the show. Michael hates rules and hates being bored. It’s literally Toby’s job to be boring, keep tabs on Michael’s behavior and censor Michael so that he’s abiding by the code of conduct, which Michael sees as Toby stifling his humor and killing the “morale” in the office. It’s no different than Michael’s dynamic with Charles Miner, who basically comes in to shut Michael’s antics down and enforce the rules. That’s what makes it so funny when Toby’s temporary replacement in HR, Holly, turns out to be the love of his life. Talk about a plot twist ❤

I think what would have made Michael and Toby's dynamic perfect was if at some point in the series, Michaels father shows up and he happens to be of Toby's exact personality. It could have explained so much

And the show plays off it so well when it introduces Holly. Michael thinks he hates HR because of Toby, but when he meets Holly, it totally changes his mind. That change is not possible without Michael hating Toby

I always felt so bad for Toby. I used to be bullied a lot when I was a kid, and it just reminded me of what it felt like seeing him be treated that way.

Of all the things in The Office that feels so much forced and unrealistic this is the one I can believe. Toby is like Michael's nany telling him he can't run around with scissors. I can honestely believe he would have Toby.

Toby hopping the fence after accidentally grabbing Pam’s leg gets me every time

Very interesting. The one thing not mentioned in this is that Toby being HR is also fairly important. Yes, he is corporate and can't be fired, but it is also his literal job description to stop Michael's ideas of fun. I think that is why most of us just assumed this was fully intentional. As anyone who has worked in an office can probably attest, take anyone who has worked in an office, describe the Michael character to them, and then ask, "Okay, now who is the person most likely to be their enemy within this building" and I'd say 9 times out of 10, the answer would be the HR person, whether fair or not. HR, at least in the US, has a certain "thou shalt not" type of feel to it; it is the principal's office of the workplace and the last place anyone wants to go to and yet, it is the place where Michael pretty much lives with his antics.

Toby didn’t hate Michael , he was always hoping Michael would like him

“Unending feud” that implies Tobey actively went to bat with Michael instead of just being harassed by michael

what a brilliant video. so many important things here. the fact that they improvised it, and went with it even tho the scene was deleted is amazing. a writer that acts to understand better the dynamics of the actors is very important.

I’ve always wondered if the actors were best of friends in real life. I can’t seem to find any information on this. But most of the time when you have a nemesis on a sitcom, it turns out the two are actually really good friends.

i miss old nerdstalgic. I feel like it used to be one guy writing passionate videos about film. Now it feels like screen rant. Bland script, new voice actor. Feels like a company now more than just a guy like it used to

It’s hilarious because it’s so accurate of corporate life. A lot of people who complain about HR are the inept colleagues who everyone else has suffer through.

Michael considers his office workers as his family members and he is quite on the narcisstic spectrum.He has good relationship with all,jim /ryan are the golden child and toby is the family scapegoat/blacksheep (,who is always quiet,empathetic, nice ,sensitive,kind of tolerates just to not cause conflict).Michael just projects all his shadow side onto toby if we analyse him .This happens a lot in a narcissistic family dynamics.

It definitely felt like a very natural dynamic. It makes sense, from a writing standpoint, that they'd want to have this counterbalance force to the wacky boss, and who's better to be that than an HR person that the boss doesn't technically have authority over? The fact that it was an acting decision that Steve Carell made on the spot is just a testament to how talented and how crafted of an actor the man truly is, which he has certainly proved time and again just in this show alone.

Toby's camera stares were often times better than Jim's...

You are correct, Toby is the person that Michael never wants to be...the loneliness of life makes people depressed.... Michael never wanted to feel that way ....so he kept speaking rubbish...made fun of people in the most cringey way...but deep inside he knows how hard it is to survive like this.. Toby's depressed face reminds Michael of all the pain he kept in his heart... By hating him it makes him feel in a better way to fight with life...

The boss who constantly breaks the rules hating the HR guy who constantly reminds him of the rules is just logical.

“Michael lacks any social skills” …. You do realize Micheal is an amazing salesman right? That’s the whole reason he is tolerated at all lol.

I alway saw Toby as the father figure, the law enforcer without being strict or intimidating and Michael was this rebel kid that felt respressed around him, so he was always was rude to him because Michael is a very insecure inmature man that rarely wants to work. But the point about proyecting himself on toby also explains a lot

I liked Toby at first because he seemed like a nice normal guy, the turning point for me was when he started being weird around Jim and Pam, the thigh stroking scene comes to mind. It showed me he wasn’t really a nice guy and went behind Jim’s back to get him fired.

I like that throughout the series they kinda justified the Toby hate. Jim and Andy grow to hate him when they act as the boss too

It felt so malicious tbh. The way Toby was treated made no sense without an explanation tbh.

In hindsight it seems like such a natural choice.. hr is the only position that can’t be fired, the only position that is required to stand up to Michael, the only position that has a relationship with his higher ups. It makes perfect sense that Michael low key tries to undermine Toby at every turn. But it wasn’t written into the show, it goes back to what Toby said, Steve Carell doesn’t miss a thing when doing improv. He could sense that power dynamic and drew it out.

I love how collaborative this show was. It was an incredible great decision Greg Daniels made (incredible because usually creators don't like people messing with their ideas) and that made the show so unique.

There is an episode when Michael see David Wallace saying something about hating his own HR guy. I aways thought that since Michael wanted to be like David Wallace, he would hate his own HR guy too.

Ive had bosses like this. Bosses who just couldnt stand me no matter what i did. Thier bosses loved me so they couldnt do anything but they always found something to be irritated with me about.

Toby is the employee who makes the series grounded in reality and keeps the office from turning dysfunctional. Characters like him are (unfairly) disliked and mistreated because most people tend to prefer the quirky and wild person that Michael is, even if he tends to be wrong and idiotic almost all the time. I think Toby's writing was handled poorly since he just doesn't deserve what happens to him.

Michael's not the only one who hates Toby. I've worked with HR reps and their "unbiasedness" for the last 16 years. Never once seen them side against management. Toby's right. HR is a joke.

I always loved the fact that every one that gets to a managing position in the office, they almost imediatelly start having problems with Toby

I don't know if I remember correctly but I think at some point we learnt that Michael's parents got divorced and that was supposed to be the reason why he hates Toby so much: because he is a divorcée who "ruined his family"

It always seemed to me that Michael hated the fact that Toby divorced.. I mean, he had the chance to achieve what Michael craved most (a family) and, like, in Michael’s head, he threw it away… Also, I’d like to think Michael somehow had some sense about something wrong with Toby (i.e the Scranton Struggler)

I really like his hate for Toby. It’s like the last most immature spiteful part of Micheal that keeps on as he grows throughout the series.

"Mutual antagonism"? There is nothing mutual about it. 😂 Michael is straight up bullying Toby through the whole show, and Toby is just accepting it 😂

The brilliance of Steve Carrell to automatically assume that there’s a huge rift between “the FUN Manager” and Corporate’s HR Rep. is sheer genius. It’s no wonder that people can love, hate and relate to this dynamic all these years later…

See....stuff like this is why The Office can and should NEVER be rebooted

Love both characters

It was touched on earlier too: Michael and Toby have HISTORY in DM more than anyone else.

Most of my interactions with an HR employee makes me understand why michael hates toby so much

Adding on to the gag, when Jim's interviewing for the management position with Wallace at the end of season 3, the latter warns the former that the only person Jim's not going to like at corporate is the head of HR, implying that managers will forever be at odds with HR.

If you think Michael is the worst kind of boss, you've been very lucky.

Wow. I didn't realize how excellent Toby is as a mirror of Michael. No wonder Michael has such a fearful loathing toward him. It's comical, but so sad. Thank you for another interesting video. God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)

I have seen the show about 6 times. The only person that truly hates Toby is Michael. Most of the other characters actually like Toby. Even Pam admitted that she used to like him.

I strongly disagree with a description that is constantly underlined for the whole video: there is no mutual hatred, but just a one way feeling. Michael expresses his hate towards Toby throughout the whole show and Toby basically never reacts or at least never gets mad.

I would hate the Scranton Strangler too...

I believe Michael knew Toby was the Scranton strangler

I always figured Paul was in the writer’s room, just having a blast writing the Michale hates Toby scenes. Who knew it was Steve’s idea?

No we don’t tolerate Scott, I’ve never heard anyone say we tolerate him, we LOVE Michael Scott

Toby works for hr which is corporate which means he isn’t a part of our family. He’s also divorced so that means he isn’t really a part of his family.

Toby actually spoke normally in season 9. I think it was when Jim asked him about marriage counseling

Its funny how everyone laughs at the bullying Michael does to Toby, but it's painful to watch when either you've been through the same thing, or you know that others have been through it.

Michael coming from divorced parents makes his relationship with Toby, as a divorced father, more interesting. Maybe Michael blames Toby in a subconscious way for doing to Sasha what Michael's dad did to him

I hate Toby. He stop Dwight and Andy from playing Country Road. Also he is lame to talk to or talk about. I want to have things fun and Toby makes it not that way. I hate, so much about things that Toby chooses to be.

Michael has the power to fire Tobey but he’d get fired for firing Tobey just cause he doesn’t like Tobey.

I honestly think Toby shows what an HR should actually be like. 1. Most incidents, Toby avoids escalating issue to higher ups. For example, Dwight's complain box against Jim. 2. Compared to Toby, Holly was actually the worst HR. The fact that she didn't kept Meridith's secret about her sleeping with their clients confidential and actually reporting her to higher ups basically shows it.

A great thing about the Office was how they never softened up Michael's disdain for Toby at all like a lesser show would have likely done or tried to make them connect at some point and become buds. I love that scene when Toby was trying to have a heart to heart with Michael and they were eating together at that conference and Michael shoves his tray of food off of the table in disgust. I remember watching that scene when it first aired and just laughing my ass off.

I always felt that Michael hated him because Michael thinks of the office as his own private little fiefdom, and he outranks everybody. Except Toby. Because Toby is HR he's the only one who can override Michael, and tell him what he can and cannot do. If Michael pushes things too far Toby can report Michael's actions to corporate, and Michael knows it. And hates it.

Good video, but I don't think you actually tell us the REAL reason, despite claiming as much with your fancy algorithm-enforced title card. This video tells us more about how the actors who play these characters stumbled upon this dynamic, which is interesting. Why does Michael Scott hate Toby? You do suggest that he hates Toby because he sees himself in Toby. A middle-aged lonely loser. That could be an astute observation, and maybe there is some truth to it. But I think the show tells us point blank why Michael hates Toby. It's because Toby's whole job is to make the office a place of "no fun". Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there is a scene where Michael describes disliking the HR representative that was there before Toby. He also assumes he will hate Holly, and he expects to hate her before ever getting to know her. (There are even scenes where Holly does her job and this bothers Michael despite him growing to like her.) To Michael HR are the tattletales. HR's job is to make the workplace a... workplace. That's the antithesis to everything Michael is. As you put it in this video Michael sees the workplace as a place of fun. He sees his coworkers as friends and family. That's why there are a FEW moments in this show where Michael and Toby find common ground. Rare instances where Michael separates HR from Toby. The writers may not have planned this hate dynamic, but once they discovered it they perfectly understood the complexity of it and why it existed. Michael hates HR. Toby is HR. It really is that simple.

Does anyone remember the episode where they had to decide who got the salary bonuses? We never knew who got it. Same happened in a previous episode that didn't have an ending

Goodbye, Toby!!! 😂

Intro is wrong: Michael's methods worked, and had Coorporate acknowledging him on top of the other regional managers.

Hating toby was such an unenjoyable part of the show

I always imagined that Michael initially liked or wanted to like Toby, but over time Toby’s demeanor and interference with his ideas caused Michael to despise him. I think we saw the start of that process when Jim was manager for a day and Toby started to get on his nerves. We also saw multiple times that Michael does not respond well to being undermined in his office, since he fought with Ryan, Charles, and Jim when they vetoed his ideas. I think the key difference is Tobys demeanor/personality just fundamentally irritates Michael in a way that makes him personally hate Toby more.

It's like me and my supervisor. We're both genuinely nice guys. But he's to by the books and i just go with the flow. Both of us work well to get the job done. But we butt heads on occasions.

Lmao I don’t think actors not getting credit for the characters they play has EVER been a problem. In fact it’s more likely to find an actor complaining the public will come up to them and treat them like they ARE that character.

Loved that show, but it really needed to end when Michael Scott left.

It would've been interesting to see what the office would've looked like if Toby had become the manager when Micheal left. In the first season it would'nt have worked because Toby probably would've ran things relatively effectively and that would be boring, but by the later seasons everyone in the office had adapted to having Micheal Scott as their boss and the chaos could've come from that place of Toby trying to fix what Michael had ultimately changed in everyone (maybe even including him?).

If Toby really is the strangler, then Michael is probably pushing him to the edge daily. Michael is practically an accessory.

I always see Toby as Michael's "scapegoat," like in dysfunctional families. Someone takes all the misdirected blame, even if totally irrational. (Parks & Rec did it hilariously, too, with Jerry.) Michael is so unfulfilled in life...all because of Toby. Lol.

I love these serious analysis of silly things

Woah every candy bar is backwards on the vending machine behind tobey

"Foxcatcher," M&Fers!! Steve Carell is an absolute acting dynamo. 👌

I always thought it was because Michael’s parents and how Toby reminded him.

Family Matters' Jaleel White envisioned "Urkel" and changed the entire dynamic of the show as well.

I thought it had something to do with Toby possibly being the Scranton Strangler and Michael basically being a dumb golden retriever. He doesn’t know WHAT is wrong, just that something IS wrong.

Was this really needed to be analyzed? It's really not that complex of a relationship. Michael hates Toby because it's Toby's job to be the voice of reason in a very unconventional office. Toby's only trying to do his job, but Michael, being the immature man-child that he is, thinks that Toby only gets in his way because he's mean and boring and he just hates fun. And Toby doesn't really hate Michael. He actually tried to become friends with him on several occasions in the show.

"Perpetually neglecting actual business in favor of doing things that are fun or exciting. At least what they think is fun and exciting". You literally just described the entire dream model of modern influencers who, as Robert California so aptly put it, produce nothing. Cause and effect? Who knows? What's true is Michael was prophetically ahead of his time.

If it were bad for DM, they would have fired him a long time ago… his office was top performer!

great take, good job

I always felt Michael hated Toby because of the divorce. Michael desperately wants someone in his life and Toby's divorce is an attack on that.

Michael would have hated me, I would have been a more aggressive version of Stanely.

- Michael... - Oh, hey, Toby. Can you close the door on your way out?

Didn't the UK office also have the boss hate the HR guy?

Didn't knew Moss was a writer😂

Michael wants freedom Toby represented safety (restrictions) .. not happiness

I clicked on this video just to comment saying that I thought this was a legal eagle video based on the thumbnail.

Why was Dwight able to fire Tobey from corporate, when Michael failed multiple times over?

Toby is everything that Michael doesn't want to become. That is why Michael hates Toby.

With the right actor for the role, the character can become so much more than what was put on paper. I think, for example, RDJ being cast as Iron Man was one of the best decisions made for Marvel. He became his character so wholefully, I don't think anyone else considered at the time could have paved the way like RDJ did. Just like Carell was probably the best choice to play Michael Scott, I don't know if anyone else could have pulled it off. I think back to the footage of Eric Stoltz as Marty in Back to the Future and how he just didn't have the right chemistry for the role. Some remakes have the same issue where the actor hired just doesn't bring the same life to the character. So if they did try to remake Back to the Future, for example, I doubt they could recapture the magic of the original

I mean he’s also the Scranton strangler

Toby, speaking about meeting the Scranton Strangler, “I think this is the start of my first friendship…”

“You are a waste of life and should give up.” ….Honestly, like, DAMN.

Deep down it may have been a battle of who is hottest since they are both handsome.

... Why mention the creators and then show someone who did not participate in the creation of anything?