My niece, at the age of 3, was screened for ADHD in 2022. Same month, November, I was struggling with anxiety and depression. I got diagnosed with ADHD in less than 30 min. My provider impressions were like this. So, you are top of your class from primary school till graduate school, considered a gifted abstract thinker by many of your professors, but struggle with delayed gratification. Ok, but you also have sensory issues, you struggle to identify your own emotions, you copy others' behaviors (at the age of 38), you are deep into anime and videogames, your wife says that you were clueless about her advances and see zero nuances, your mom taught you the importance of eye contact and says you are often pure-hearted, naive, highly empathic, morally strict, justice seeker, yet were bullied as a kid for liking being alone. And, your family often remind how alike your siblings, father, and grandfather. Well, there is more than ADHD here...

Thank you so much for having me along to chat. It was really wonderful to connect.

Yes, me too, I am 70 and was diagnosed at 68.

I remember the first time my ex asked me to "straighten the kitchen" ... I didn't know why she wanted that, but I took every dirty dish and piece of silverware and made them line up perfectly. She got mad ... she meant do the dishes, clean the counter and clean the floor. She did not say that at the start.

I’m age 52 with three neurodivergent teenagers, (one autistic, one ADHD, one SPD . All with generalized anxiety) and a “hyperactive” husband who’s all over the place with his thoughts and activities. I score 176/200 on the online “aspie” test and 186 on RAADS. But my therapists won’t hear of it. LOL I’ve had depression, sensitivities, anxiety, OCD almost my whole life and as a child in school I was “gifted” 😑 but so very shy. Still horribly shy, but as an older person they call it “anti-social”. I suppose that’s fair…since I’ve just grown to avoid social interaction. If I can’t write out my thoughts, nobody will ever know.

I went to a psychologist to see if I had cptsd and ended up being told I could be autistic and then put on a 4 year waiting list (NHS) I am 59. Wish I could be assessed immediately as it would help me reframe my entire life.

I'm an autistic mother and business owner (couldn't hold a normal job) and master arborist (special interest trees since childhood) also with celiac. James Herriot and his novels inspired my practice as a tree "doctor". I feel so touchef listening to you. I want to inspire one of your autistic characters! Please keep doing lots of writing!

I’m 44 and my daughter was just diagnosed …. The process of her assessment was quite confronting due to the similar behaviors & childhood history.

This past weekend I went to one of the big box membership stores for stuff I really needed. I had a big cart full and the guy at the register said my membership was expired and just step up to the service desk and they would quickly renew it. My sister had the membership and had added me. I said no problem I will renew and pay it but they would not allow it because I am not primary. I blindly left everything and walked out and cried all the way home. Why wasn't it suggested that I get the membership on my own? It didn't occur to me because I'm AUTISTIC and all I knew was go home! I managed to get laundry done but I never left the house again. I was mortified, embarrassed and will never set foot in that store again and I spent thousands there in the past...So upsetting and it was a big nothing burger! I know it was an unreasonable reaction but I quietly walked away to implode in the car.

Thank you for having so many women on and bringing awareness to us❤ Same story here and I talk about it in my first video - son was diagnosed, then I found out it was hereditary, the rest was history. Currently trying to do my part to share more information about what autism "looks like"

Thank you for this. I’m a high functioning autistic woman who is celebrating finding myself in this way.

Nice painting behind Josephine lol one of my special interests I could easily have made that painting. Yes, Orion is correct, I call myself a professionally masker. Called too pretty by friends I've had for yrs. Told by professionals oh you get dinner on the table on time for others you can't be autistic. Me I'm now kinder to my inner child. I always described myself as a weird kid. I'm working to be nicer to her. My bf was angry when I went to get tested. Still after my diagnosis..... he says daily you love lables.... you love excuses. On my end NO I love answers.

Awesome interview. A wise person once told me to never underestimate the power of planting a seed.

When I try to talk to family about that I think I’m autistic, they say yeah you are borderline or yeah your mom never quit drinking and smoking when you’re on the way. And my therapist said to me No way, you can laugh you can make jokes you can relate to others and make eye contact. 😮 I really try to hold my life up the last years but everything is crumbling. Sensory overload and meltdowns/shutdowns are striking me every other week. 😢

I love lo hear this conversation. I am from the Netherlands. I used to have a lot of problems in my life. In 2020 was the worst nightmare in order when I ended up I a terrible place where I was forced to do things that was terrible and traumatized me. Very long story in a nutshell. After a while someone who knew me from 5 years old, told me that I am autistic. So I got an assesment. And from that moment my vision in autism and neurodivergent behaviour has changed. I understand myself a lot better. And since one year I realise what are my needs and I act like it. I am a 58 year old wonen. So thank you again Orion. I appreciate this a lot again.❤

Totally relate to that comment “thought I was born to suffer, a crap person” 💙💞🙏🏻👊

I was the reverse order with AuDHD but both diagnoses threw me as it make me look at my struggles & it through me into grief/analysis/burnout. Autism was only identified because I went blind for a day. My sensory profile has always been off the charts but I didn't think of autism until I met other ADHDers who slowly showed me autistic traits in women. Also moderately gifted, that's the hardest one to match with how I see myself. Still processing the last couple of years but at least I know self employment/entrepreneurial endeavours are probably the right path. I'll stop trying to be "normal" now, it's far better being me. The term "Wacky" used to be endearing but actually for a good while it turned wildly offensive.

I’m 58 and learning about this is so life changing to see the why of my life. I am horrified though my daughter who is now 25 was never diagnosed I had her in therapy etc most of her life and they never helped. So it escalated for her to new ways like what they diagnosed as eating disorders and bipolar. Without the right help she started using drugs. I wish that they had been looking at that for girls when she was very young. I kept describing what I now know as autism to care providers to no avail. She suffered and then again so did I

I laugh at all the "late diagnosis" I hear about on these channels. I was 61 when I figured it out.

I am 50 yo and right now waiting for the results from my assessment. Even if it became quite clear through out the process, I still am nervous and wait for the official result. My daughter got her neurodiverse diagnosis about one year ago at age 13. Late but better than never. There are so many choices I would have made differently if I had known this about me. I can't change the past but I can make better choices in the future. I am glad that my daughter gets to live in a different time than I did. I completely resonate with your intention to make life better for all our neurodivergent children! Thanks for lifting the importance of the arts in the process. I am an illustrator and feel empowered!

Thank you for putting your stories out there. I resonate strongly with what both of you are saying. 21:44 Certain people get upset when we try to talk to them about neurodiversity. They push back saying we are just making excuses. Movies like "Rain Man" have done a lot of damage. I'm looking forward to the kind of fiction you're describing I'm hoping your book is available in audio form as I'm a Dyslexic AuDHD I was diagnosed Dyslexic & ADD in 1985, the ASD was diagnosed just a few weeks ago. "Grasshoppering around" I have not heard the term before, but I like it.😊 I often find myself at points in a story, that trigger thoughts, that I just start talking about, it can be a bit of a meandering path through a conversation.

Great chat Orion and Josephine. And Orion, it was heart warming to see/feel/hear your reaction to when Josephine speaks the same truths that you do - in terms of planting seeds so the world is a slightly more kind place for our neuro diverse children. Here’s to changing the world one conversation at a time. Anna xx

My parents are from northern Maine, but they moved down to a state farther south before my brother and I came along. Therefore, ever since we were babies we have been traveling to Maine and back a couple times a year to visit family, which is about a 14 hour drive from where we are. Many things about traveling are still very difficult for me (and now that I've been diagnosed autistic, I have a better understanding as to why), such as sleeping in a different bed/environment (and sleeping is extremely difficult for me in general, even at home), being away from home, being away from my familiar routine, etc. In my case though, since I've been traveling my whole life, I am somewhat used to it, so I can usually manage decently enough. I've even been able to manage traveling to other countries with my family, and got enjoyment out of it

That video was AWESOME. I enjoyed it so much. I am an autistic writer with a finished manuscript that I'm going to try and sell within the coming months. So thanks, Orion, for picking such an interesting guest to interview. I like all your videos but this one was particularly interesting to me 😊

Thanks for your incite Josephine, I love her cat.

I actually had a similar experience with a psychologist. I got diagnosed with schizophrenia 5 years ago and my psychologist wanted me to go for an autism assessment because she specializes in autism and schizophrenia and said that a lot of times when someone starts going through psychosis before even the teen years, it's usually connected to autism. I didn't look into it then because all of the information I was receiving was way too overwhelming and I needed time to process. I'm self-diagnosed currently and would eventually like to go for an assessment.

Josephine and Orion, you are both quite amazing, and this was a righteous interview!

That was so fun. I felt right at home with the comfort level and level of expression. I'm beginning to think ND people do not even have the ability to pervericate . It would disrupt in so many levels. Thanks for the interview. Altho I'm in the states, I will be looking for the novel! Sounds real to me!

😅 "Am I answering the question? I forgot." I related so hard with that lol great video

We are the opposite. I was misdiagnosed as "almost, but not quite" autistic in my late 40s. This led to intense research on my part (temporary special interest!) which resulted in my self-diagnosis as definitely autistic. Especially as I remembered key incidents and scenes from my childhood. This in turn, encouraged my adult daughter to be evaluated at 26 years old. SURPRISE! Now she is getting the help she has needed for years, but we didn't know because of her high masking skills.

Thank you for planting such beautiful seeds Josephine. Thank you for being brave and creating an artistic vehicle to encourage the well needed conversations in schools, workplaces, families and communities. That is the wonderful thing about Josephine Moon - passionate change maker.

Lovely episode, I enjoyed from beginning to end. Thank you so much 👏☺️

Beautiful. :) Thanks for planting seeds. ❤😊 Also, have a hug! If you want one, of course. 🤗😊

I’m 51 and this is wonderful. Thank you.

Great chat! Love how u open up and just go through the world in so many ways when it comes to autism 🌏❤

I was 51 when I discovered I had ASD. It explained everything. I felt so wonderful. Of course, a lot to process, especially looking back over my life back to childhood. I ❤ this channel. Thank you!

Thank you very much for that, i get so much from people the tell their stories about how their lives are so please do that again with Josephine if you can..

Regarding "grasshoppering around", yeah, that's me too. I go off on so many tangents that I occasionally forget the point I was trying to make or the main topic I was discussing. As for physics, that's a funny little synchronicity because I have a bachelor of science degree in physics. I've never used it professionally though. It was something that my dad "forced" upon me; at least if I wanted him to pay for the education. Honestly, I wanted to major in computer science and think that I would have been much better off today if I had.

So I got diagnosed with anxiety and depression, as a young person, then bpd, then cptsd and yes I do resonate with the cptsd but I think the bpd is wrong, so does my partner. But I really think it's autism with ADHD with the type of intellect that tends to score highly on IQ tests. The high IQ makes it difficult to be picked up as autistic coz we are good at masking and camouflageing, which is a pretty typical thing for autistic women. I have one child diagnosed with Autism, siblings with children diagnosed with Autism, I have children who suspect they have ADHD and this made me look into it, as they both told me they think I present more ADHDy than Autistic, but my Dad is very sterotypically Aspergers, even to the point of late talking but he spoke in sentences (at age 3) when he did and he was obsessed with trains. My mum cpnstantly told me "you're so like your father". I think it was traumatic not knowing I was autistic so long. I have to wait until I can validation from a clinician. I couldn't finish school or uni (thanks cptsd and ADHD). I don't even have my drivers licence. I'm going to ask my local library to get that book in. We recently went through massive floods so our library has to restock so I'm gonna request some autism and neurodiverse resource books. Great interview! Thank you!

Great interview , thankyou. xoxo

I got my autism diagnosis 3 years after my son's so I could really relate to this! Thank you both!

Thanks for this.

Thank you both for "planting the seeds" about autism.

Fortunately for many, it seems to have NOT prevented significant and long term relationships, including having families. I can't say the same for myself. My longest relationship time frame has 3 months (and very few of those), before I feel the 'need' to sabotage it, simply by 'going dark' and causing the other person to break things off. I got close once, and was even preparing to live together...then the same old 'curse' happened. The issue was in that particular case, was her lack of empathy regarding grief, as we had lost my brother at 20, a few years prior and I was still struggling with it, being the eldest of my siblings, and thinking it should have been me. Her 'belief' was that it is something that can be 'controlled' and to move on, which I found offensive, and as such broke down the relationship. When we had a talk afterwards, she vented as to what went wrong (as she was disappointed by the break down, as she had visions of our future together, which is a first and only time), and what was wrong with me, and I was like a stunned mullet, and could not answer. I am starting to understand, and accept the 'shut down' coping mechanism when overwhelmed reason, when I thought it was simply because I was 'odd'! I simply. got to a point realising I would be forever a bachelor...and left it that! My 'prospects' have only got worse...with my conditions getting worse! I have only recently (ie a few weeks ago) received a formal diagnosis from a psychologist for several 'factors' including ASD, & ADHD but have had anxiety/depression issues for almost 10 years, following negligence, discrimination and basically a REFUSAL to accept a metabolic condition with a former employer, which led to a mental breakdown, for which I am lucky to still be here. But once again due to another recent 'workplace' negative action, I am back there again...but in a way a lot worse! For many months I having being trying to understand why my decline has been so rapid, and severe, when in the grand scheme of things, it should not have! I have always been a person that is black and white, and if 'wronged', will fight to the death to prove it so! Some say, let it go, but doing so will be worse! I reckon, from some of the official and online tests, I have simply got to a point of severe 'burn out', following MANY years of chronic stress, constant negative life issues, which has left me in a very bad place. But each hour at a time! :-/

Thank you both so much! 🎉 👏🏻 In my thirties and no kids for me. But my nieces and nephews were the key motivators for digging into my neurotype research. And its led me to a dx of ADHD and an assessment for autism soon. Im on fire about having these talks first, so they wont be the ones with the burden of starting from scratch within our family. ❤ So excited to see better representation in fiction. Your writing sounds really intriguing, Josephine! 📚 Final note: Thank you for the term "grasshoppering." The way you answered questions sounded like play back of my own thought and speech patterns. Gonna use "grasshopper" to explain to loved ones and colleagues when my brain is especially keen on taking the scenic routes that day. 🦗

❤🙏🏼🤗 Edited to add: wish your book, Josephine, was easier to get in the states. Plan to get my hands on it somehow. Excited to read it.

great show

I used to teach in a public school and agree with what she said about sensory overload at work. I had to leave.

Thank you! Can you do more interviews of late diagnosed autistic people?

I was Diagnosed at 58years a master masker my family don't believe me, that is very hard to deal with.

Another aspect regarding high masking autistic women is that they are more likely to experience sexual abuse because they try so hard to make a connection while misinterpreting social communication. Until my late diagnosis I struggled a lot with this whilst blaming myself for it. Just one aspect I can relate to thinking of yourself as a bad person and punishing yourself for it. My psychiatrist also looked for every other diagnosis but autism and ADHD (bipolar disorder, anxiety, depression…) just because my high education did not fit into his picture of autism or ADHD. That’s in Germany by the way…

For me, understanding the definition of an autistic meltdown was what clinched my self-diagnosis at 50. I'm also super sensitive to everything, but also have hEDS so attributed my sensitivities to that diagnosis, since it results in my being fragile, head to toe and inside and out. As a side note, I think I see the EDS zebra depicted in the artwork on Josephine's wall. 🦓

Honestly. It is a strange journey. I have never been diagnosed but have wondered if my Father was Asperger's all my life. It's one of those situations that was never discussed in my family. My dad has lived at home all his life. My mom and him had me young and was forced to marry. My dad struggled with staying at work or just being out and about. He would get up and go home. I dont think I will ever find out what my dad is going through. Like I mentioned it is one of the many things we just Dont talk about. But now here I am struggling with understanding if I am Asperger's myself, or high functioning autistic. I took an online assessment which stated i was Fairly Prominently Asperger's but i hear they dont test for this anymore. So i honestly dont know where to start. Plus my husband and others i know basically tell me Once you find out, then what?? Will that change anything for you? So I have been on the fence for awhile. I just found your videos and I am stuck. I can't stop watching and feeling like, I get it, I get it!! I have always wondered if I had a social disorder, but my husband chocks it up to my tragic childhood and not being socialized. I have been diagnosed with GAD which didnt happen until my husband was so Over Frustrated with me and my breakdowns and questioning Everything that he told me to either get medicated or we were bound for divorce. I will say it's been frustrating since being diagnosed as having GAD, Everytime I go to the Dr's office, as soon as they pull up my chart and see GAD across the top, they dismiss whatever complaint that I have. It sucks!! I wish there was an easier process. I also have the issue with many careers. I used to be a Real Estate Appraiser, which I Loved the process of with #'s. I LOVE math. However, I had soooo much Anxiety over calling Brokers/Agents that I got to a point where I would sweat to pick up the phone. Procrastination was a Major problem with deadlines!!! The Deadlines were always pushed to the Last Min. As I'm talking about it my heart is racing. After 15yrs, with years of study under me, I quit. I loved the Appraisal process but couldnt get passed the Anxiety. And the gut problems. Just going to an inspection, my stomach would turn. And it didnt matter How Many Inspections I had accomplished, I could not get over the High Anxiety going to an inspection. Would I forget something, would the people think I was weird, would my boss get upset because I cant stop talking, etc. I have a hard time making friends. My sister who is now an RN really has been my one true friend and were half sisters. It's been hard with the family not just because of my dad, but my mom is also socially awkward but is adopted so we dont know any info of her past. With all the unknowns and my tragic past had me move around like a foster kid within my own family. I went to 12 different schools from preschool to high school. I was always the outsider which did not help. Again. Thank you for your Honest channel and also talking about women and the major issues we all face. Sorry for the long tirade. Blessing!! 😇🥰 p.s. Major Cat Lover 😻

Working one on one with students IS possible in a school setting; in fact I'm working in one right now. It's a hybrid independent study charter school. You also get some of that in special education. I also homeschooled for 16 years...and that is almost all one on one.

Wow! This is my attention to detail running here . . . I just noticed that Orion pronounced "issue" the same way most Americans pronounce it rather than the way, say, British people pronounce it. He pronounced the first syllable as "ish" rather than "iss". I find that quite interesting as I would have thought that Australians would pronounce it very similar to the way that the British do. With that tidbit successfully out of the way, I can also say that I've suffered the same thing. First, I essentially diagnosed myself as autistic because an online friend that I had known for many years at the time said he was autistic. So, knowing that I'm a bit odd, I did some reading. While I don't display all traits, I'd say that I display 75% to 80% of them them. Maybe more. Those are just rough figures. Thus, I sought counseling. It took two years and two different counselors, but I finally received an official diagnosis of Asperger's in 2008. Then, it was re-affirmed by a third psychologist in a different state last year. However, I had some testing done by yet another psychologist late last year as part of qualifying for vocational rehab and he said in his report something to the effect, "No, you're not autistic. Your autistic traits are merely masquerading the fact that you are both schizotypal and paranoid. I proceeded to tell him that he was wrong and that I am, in fact, autistic in a seven page response to his ten page report. I was quite logical in my response and broke things down explaining exactly why he was wrong and how A, B, C, D, E and F traits are hallmarks of autism; not schizotypal personality disorder. And certainly not paranoia. So, yes, I know what you guys have gone through and can certainly empathize with you and others going through the same.

do you have an episode about medications that get prescribed to autistic adults?

Omg, 'your eye contact is too good, you cant be autistic'...mamy people who are old enough to have children has learnt that you need to make eye contact! How can any so -called professional make that statement? I have great eye contact (except in intimate or vulnerable situations when there is none at all) and great 'customer service' skills (all my relationships are pretty much 'customer service'...polite, people pleasing, helpful and understanding but with no regard for my own feelings or a real personal connection). I have learnt the rules and have put my mask on 24/7, my whole life is playing a role that is socially acceptable. I dont know what my off-duty personality is. I did a teaching degree and there was not a single module on ND in three years. There were modules on inclusivity and diversity but it was entirely based on ethnicity and cultural differences, not a single word about teaching children who were ND or disabled or had learning difficulties. Given that about 20% of children are ND and I have no idea of the % of children with learning difficulties (I hate that term, I much prefer alternative learning needs ), it shows to me how much the education system is letting children down. And letting ND teachers down too. Some of the things that were said to myself and other student teachers, both by other students and teaching staff, who did not meet the 'stereotype' were appalling and the university didn't care.

Most people don't seem to understand the concept of how much autistic people struggle pre-diagnosis. They don't just "become more autistic" after getting diagnosed, it's more like they finally give themselves permission to stop struggling to suppress their true nature and stop grinding their way through things that have always been intolerable to them.

Hi there Im also a late adult diagnosed with ASD @ 31. Prior to this information life was so hard & overwhelming. I also started the KZfaq channel in the hopes of helping others any constructive criticism would be much appreciated!!

I have a question that I've been looking for the answer for years with no avail. No one of my present and past psychologists and psychiatrists or anyone for that matter could answer this question. Ever since I was 9-10 years old, I felt like an alien or a foreigner in my own country. I have started watching American TV shows and movies, listening to only American music, thinking in English (yes, I do mean thinking in English), reading and writing in English. In time, it only grew stronger. I actually feel like an American. Why am I like that? What is the reason of it or am I simply a freak? (Obviously, I'm not truly American) 💔PLEASE, DO NOT WRITE ANY NEGATIVE AND INSULTING COMMENTS 🙏🏻😥

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I think ADHD and Autism is diagnoses that was accidently created because we didn't know any better. The CORE here is Neurodivergence with a spectrum not your autistic or your ADHD. What we need is to be diagnoses for alternative executive function, alternative sensory experience (like I underload on smell, not overload) drop me in a septic tank and I start asking if I can move in here it's nice. People need to be diagnosed as neurodivergent and then we detail it out ND with low executive functions or ND and problems with sensory input (Though that might need to be split into the senses.) and ND with low intelligence, so we can stop the current science deadlock and a scientist can say he want to help people with ND and low intelligence, instead of them trying to harm all ND due to the special issues of ND with low intelligence. The science is walking down the wrong path because a lot of very high paid doctors is now specialized in ADHD or Autism and they really don't want to be told they waisted most of their life on a mistaken assumption. The ENTIRE point of ND is that you don't fit in a box, so stop using the ADHD or Autism BOX it doesn't FIT!

My son was diagnosed with Asperger's Autism Spectrum Disorder at age 16 he's now 19 . He comes out with a lot of different issues like sensory tastes textures light sensitivity etc. We end up having disagreements. I watch these videos to get a better understanding. He does not comprehend certain things. He doesn't like to write at all. I fill out all his paperwork. He used to tell some that he had Autism as we met another younger kid that also had it. Just don't understand where he's coming from. Also he doesn't like to go anywhere. No walks stores . Once he comes in from school he doesn't step foot outside. 🤷🤷

I love when handsome guys are funny...and autistic ☺️👍😅 and yeah ... Definitely think I'm AuDHD... And at 39... It's been. .... 😔🥺☹️😭

I’m 44 and not going to get a formal diagnosis. I can’t see how it will help me at this stage. Why be diagnosed, if you already know?

Great chat guys!! @orionkelly and @josephinemoon my heads so sore from nodding in agreement! Same same…

@Josephine_Moon @taratorme @aspergergal Thank You so much for this video. I am autistic & I found it very informative. Tara Kimberley Torme