There's a quote I heard in response to this common complaint in MTG, but I think it applies to FGs just fine: "Honest" usually means "I don't lose to it."

I was going to say the same.

Yeah, somebody give this guy a raise

Fantastic editing The shirt-change mixup threw me off, though

Video was dope and the editing was super dope!

Thanks n0pants

I think the big misconception, is that they think you can react to things in fighting games, which to be fair you can in certain situations, but the reality is so many things happen so fast, you just have to guess preemptively 90% of the time. Its blitz RPS all day everyday.

Rocks of various sizes *laughs in pot buster and hpb* Yes

@@FlameEcho naw you're reacting to the situation with a guess. It's really both at once 🤣

@scott mizer That's not really true. If you play fighting games enough, especially a specific one, things become muscle memory and on top of that conditioning your opponent is also something to factor in too. Watch high level mvc3 play, punk's karin anything where you will see some wild and crazy stuff consistently. They dont create the situations consistently and do the things they do cause of 90 percent good guesses. They condition their opponent and know what is gonna happen and work based off every given situation. I'm not good at articulating these things into words like sajam but their are numerous examples to be made here to say your claim is false

Seeing "Kiddie Scissors" as an option for some reason made me instantly think of that _SF4_ T. Hawk vs. Blanka match-up that was *atrocious* for T. Hawk given he had nothing to punish Blanka Balls except jabs. That was...not a fun match-up.

Another important thing to consider in a 50-50 scenario is the risk reward. Your opponent might set up some oki where they have an unreactable overhead/low mixup, so a true 50-50. But which leads to more damage? Can they combo from the low but not the overhead? Does the overhead hard knockdown and reset the oki situation? That's when you get into situations where people talk about taking the throw, because you might have the option to take or tech the throw, but if you get shimmied and whiff your throw tech you might eat a huge punish that does more than double what a throw would do. So even before you've gotten a read on your opponent, 50-50s are almost never true 50-50s, you have information that can inform which decision you make.

I think the issue is also partially due to the stigma around the word "guess", which carries a feeling of lack of control which, if left unchecked, can spiral into a sense of helplessness. In real life combat sports, what would be called guessing in fighting games is generally referred to as a fighter's instincts and intuition. Boxers train to let their brains go on autopilot to take in spacing, patterns, and habits, in order to act in the best way to give them the greatest chance of success in a match.

I think people give a negative connotation to the term "guessing", as in: "it's completely random and out of your control, so if you guess right, it's pure luck, not skill." Of course, that's not true. These are educated guesses, done based on available information and experience. Better players consistently make better guesses and that's a testament to their skill and dedication.

While that's true, a lot of newer players are not going to be as adaptable as veteran players, and they're not going to be able to easily transition from "this person is doing X" to "do I have something that beats X" to "beating X", and when they do it's going to be a struggle to remove the middle part which is where a lot of the guessing comes from. I've played and beaten other people using just one button before because they only know how to use one tactic for every round in two sets, because they found a button that worked before.

@@bipolarprobe even if it IS a true 50/50, that's still better odds you'll pick the right thing than in neutral anyways as there's lots less realistic options.

exactly, everything they do is unga bunga and everything I do is a godlike hard read.

Good players can condition or force their opponents to be more predictable or to act in a particular way. Consistently punishing just one of their “random” habits will make them stop doing it and if they don’t you win. People play random when they don’t respect your ability to punish. If you struggle to punish random things weave in and out of a range that will encourage them to do one of the only moves that will reach you and punish it.

one example of this I really like is challenging nagoriyuki with sweep as giovanna. it goes under his f.S and 2H, forcing him to start poking with something else or losing half his health off 1 whiff

@@MallowJam I've been working on using faultless defense to make things whiff and punishing lately them myself. My whiff punish game is easily my weakest part of my neutral.

@Kayden McCallum epic comment wow xD

Yes. This is probably why most people find fighting games hard to play. Being able to make good reads and decisions takes a lot of time. One needs to experiment with the characters and what they do to gain knowledge in the matchups, which options beats other options, etc.

I guess these people just want to play a pure math game of frame data and only play opponents that consistently set themselves up to get punished. Sounds like a boring game to me.

@@Amutsal like that one guy who said Sol's 5K could punish S dolphin. The frame data checks out but the range isn't even close

Being able to make reads or predictions is quite literally a fundamental skill in any competitive thing wether it’s sports, tcgs or video games.

I don't hate guessing when i get mixed, but I hate guessing when I'm mixing my opponent. As Millia I still haven't found a safe disc setup against Leo's DP and it drives me nuts lol

As an anji player i just like to use fuujin to fuujin into fuujin

@@CaptainNoobzor you can only do safe DP setups off 2D > H disk. Since now you have time to backdash it. RC is also a friend

Fighting games have guessing, it's normal. If everything was reactable and nobody never took risks, we wouldn't be able to open anybody up. Hit the lab and stop complaining

You mean 2K?

@@thegoose8663 ya

MK player detected. Sup man

He streams every weekday at 5pm ish est

That's why you should manage your burst and tension (to do YRC or FD). Also, in some situations, you can hit people jumping back if they don't FD

@@rizqiefajar agreed, but that doesnt change the neutral, just gives you a way out if you guess wrong in neutral… but you still have to deal with the super duper guess based neutral after the burst. What you said is true though especially about FD. Like i said, its just something i have to get used to. Normally when i play against opponents that are hyper rotation or guessed based neutrals, I can out fundamental them. That doesnt seem possible though in Strive. It feels like that old sf4 noob ryu masher versus the rufus fundamental player… but everyone is the ryu noob and they can actually win and actually be very hard to beat because they just roll the dice on everything. 🤷🏿‍♂️

@@dimex3362 to me, the worst part is rps after you even won neutral and already successfully played around all of this nonsense lol. as a millia player, my neutral is basically running around and instantblocking with faultless defense. i have to do it until i see a gap in all of these random gorilla attacks, who cover 3 out of 5 options i have and then go in. otherwise, if they are not just swinging, i have to make sure, they most likely won't start it, or will do it wrong, before i even come close. but this is kinda fine to me... the only real problem i have, is when a leo just randomly mashes dp after my disc setup, while he beats all things i could do against a freaking sol or ky dp... some characters force rps way too much and feel like they are never in a disadvantageous state.

Comparing any character to Sol or Ram is depressing

Leo player?

@@DJmouchi777 yup

more dramatic

@@patstar3808 makes sence

if there is a gap between two attacks, or even hits of one single attack, so that you can start mashing buttons, but get hit, since the gap is not big enough. let's say your opponent uses a two times hitting special with a gap of 10 frames in it. you use your fastest normal, which has 6 frames startup, directly after you blocked the first hit. but you are also 7 frames in blockstun and would need 13 frames in total, until your normal's hitbox is active. so you are basically trapped, in terms of yes, you can try to take your turn, but this attack will punish you for trying anyways. the faster active hitbox just wins, because even if your attack's hitbox is not active yet, it's hurtbox is already there. for more on point explanations, i suggest visiting the fighting game glossary :D glossary.infil.net/

@@soramercury7074 thank you that was very helpful :)

@@kvothe_vz8823 you are welcome bro :D EDIT: bei weiteren fragen können wir von mir aus auch gerne auf deutsch drüber sprechen xD manchmal sollte man vorm antworten profile der leute checken...

@@soramercury7074 😂 ich versteh auch noch nicht ganz was ein ,,meaty" sagen die glaube ich dazu ist. Ich bin noch relativ neu zu fighting games und kenne die ganzen Begriffe noch nicht. Wäre sehr nett wenn du das erklären könntest :)

@@kvothe_vz8823 ist relativ simpel, aber verwirrend zugleich. generell bezeichnet man angriffe als "meaty", wenn du damit gegner in dem moment triffst, in dem sie sich von einem angriff erholt haben. beispielsweise wenn millia einen gegner geworfen hat und dieser dabei ist, sich vom knockdown zu erholen und aufzustehen, dann hat er theoretisch genug zeit zu springen und dem discsetup zu entkommen. disc nach grab ist kein meaty, also hat der gegner genug zeit zum springen. wenn sie aber stattdessen einen schnelleren angriff wählt, welcher ebenfalls recht lange aktiv ist, wie zb close slash, dann ist es einfach den angriff so zu timen, dass der gegner mit dem ersten frame mit dem er sich quasi wieder frei bewegen könnte, direkt den nächsten treffer abbekommt. der gegner ist dann gezwungen direkt zu blocken, oder einen reversal zu nutzen, welcher ihm unverwundbarkeit ab dem 1. frame gibt. ansonsten würde er direkt die nächste combo einstecken. jetzt das verwirrende: ein meaty, also ein treffer ab dem zeitpunkt der erholung des gegners, kann außerdem auch meaty treffen. kurioserweise ist die definition eines meaty hittenden meaty's aber wie folgt: der vom angreifer gewählte angriff, welcher zum meaty führte, trifft den gegner zwar zum richtigen zeitpunkt, also so früh wie möglich, ABER für den treffer ist nicht der erste frame der aktiven hitbox des gewählten angriffs verantwortlich. beispiel millia: nutzt du closeslash für einen meaty und es trifft der 2. von den beiden angriffen dieses moves, dann ist es offensichtlich ein meaty hittender meaty. weil beide angriffe ihres close slashes haben jeweils 3 aktive frames. trifft erst der 2. angriff, erfolgt der meaty ab aktivem frame 4-6, anstatt 1. das konzept dieser art meaty ist insofern wichtig, dass je nach spiel und charakter die möglichkeit besteht, dass die angriffe unterschiedliche recoveryzeiten, abhängig vom zeitpunkt ihres kontaktes mit dem gegner haben. so ist ryu in third strike durch diese art meaty beispielweise in der lage, combos auszuführen, die ansonsten nicht möglich wären. das war jetzt ziemlich lang und ausführlich, aber so verständlich wie nur irgendwie möglich xD für kürzere erklärungen verweise ich erneut auf die neulich erwähnte geniale seite :D