Experienced everything you demonstrated. It’s been a while since I’ve flown the Apache. Wondered what was wrong! Thank you for putting it out there. Hopefully ED corrects the issue soon. Great content.

Thanks for making the full video explaining your gripes. I hate taking off and landing right now and it’s nice for you to explain why!

I constantly spin around on the ground like I'm on ice. Even with the parking brake on. ED said they can't reproduce it.

You're a Wonderful Asset and Thank You for your Service to all of us in DCS and the Country

It feels like they removed the ground effect when flying horizontally or severely tuned it down .

Yep! You nailed it. I was having the same experience as you. Manage to resolve it by adjusting the curves & sat Y settings. I have a Puma Pro Flight trainer (cyclic, collective, pedal combo) setup.

Thanks a lot Casmo. I was going crazy trying to figure it out where I was making mistakes in taxing and having a spin with zero collective and pedals, and also why sometimes I rolled on a side after touchdown, crashing my blades. Thank you a lot!

wow that sliding thing is bazaar ! I hate when they miss such huge part of the flit dynamic during updates. I know helicopters roll a bit, but sliding to the right like it's on ice is not normal ! I think Cosmo has contact with the ED guys, I hope he passes this information to them

So glad I found this. Just joined DCS, trying the tutorial for Apache, and struggling with the FM with the exact issues you listed. Thank you for the vindication.

Noticed this just after the last update. Had probably 20-30 successful landings in a row before, then 5 crash landings in a row. Got it under control now (almost) but it acts like it wants to murder you at touchdown.

You are the best teacher for the community. Thank you so much.

Thanks for this, Casmo. Great stuff. ED's always changing stuff, making it better, hopefully this is just momentary. Did you try the Huey? What's your opinion on it?

Great video, this is constructive, well researched feedback. Thanks for doing it, most of us just know 'something is way off' and throw fits. Much appreciated. Also, nice outro

Lucky to have you in the community, Thanks

As a budding learner if the ah64 I have been struggling with this. Didn't seem like taking off should be that difficult. Glad to know this is just borked flight model development that will hopefully get fixed.

It feels like even more work to fly. I went from flying it 25 hours a week to less than 3 hours because it's so tiring trying to deal with it.

So glad you discovered the rightwards slide issue. I didn't understand why the Apache seemed to suddenly self destruct every landing or takeoff when every other helo in sim doesn't do this at all. Trying to do this stuff under combat conditions is nearly impossible and it makes it so worse when you have a gunner depending on you. Or when you NEED to reliably put down to evade radar detection, or rearm at a farp, etc, with no nearby respawn. Makes the Apache too risky to fly in most servers when you already are very vulnerable to DCS overtuned G2A AI, and seemingly all-knowing CAP. Gave this module a break without having George doing the takeoff/flying and just accepting that landings were suicidal half the time.

dang, its been awhile since i flew the apache and recently when i did it started to slide instead of yaw. glad i wasnt imagining it. thank you for the info sir 🤘

Thanks for the video... I almost wanted to switch back to the ka 50 because I thought I was just too bad for the Apache or my joyetick wasn't that good

4 months later.... Just picked up the '64 yesterday, and I haven't encountered any sliding issues - Coming from the future, I'm now (will be then) in version 2.9 and perhaps the issue has been (will be) solved in the intervening months. Haven't checked the change logs yet, but it's either not a problem anymore or I somehow missed it. Though it'd be seems like something one would notice even if not previously warned. That makes me think the issue is no longer (won't be) a thing in 2.9

i was putting some much left... and then i thought my controls were messed, but no.. thank you for this video im sure ED will give attention to this

Thanks for the video mate, will use your advice on the trimmer. When I made my video the other day? I had a moment of clarity with it. Didn't know you can hold it down for landing

Hey Casmo, thanks for all the help on the AH64 module, really has helped, what i was wondering is have you put out a pic of your cyclic stick showing which buttons you use for which controls, i have the same stick and have tried a couple options, none work all that great, thought i'd see how you have yours set.

Thanks Cas. good honest report.

Thank christ I found this after watching your original tutorial, get her up as quick as possible was the best solution I found, glad I wasn't wrong.

Thanks Casmo for confirming this. Haven't been playing much cuz of work (also will need to build new PC soon) but when I did, I thought it was all weird cuz I was drinking too much haha. Good to see its not just me. Hope ED gets a fix for this soon.

Thanks for doing this … thought some of this was just me. I am much happier with the forward flight behaviour now. I also “jump” off the wheels on takeoff to avoid the slidey thing. My other issue is I find it harder to establish a stable hover now … was easier before. It feels like this iteration of the FM is still very much a WIP: getting there but not quite there yet.

The Yaw just goes off to one side all by itself sometimes. I don't need yaw trim, since I have a damper with no spring on my TPR pedals. I coordinate my collective with the pedals. Was slowing down into a hover like usual and keeping it straight and all the sudden it will yaw hard to the right or left.

I hope this sliding right nonsense gets a fix fast :P

Great video. I thought it was me because I had been spending a lot of time on other aircraft. I agree this needs to be fixed soon.

"ground friction no longer appears to exist" 😀 This version has made trimming harder for me (short gunfighter3, soft springs) I think my issues are hardware... I also have a problem in apache where after I trim, the cyclic becomes unresponsive until I make a "big" aft input which creates a bit of a gnarly flight condition until I can regain control of helo... if anyone else has that issue or has solved it, I'd love to hear how you did it. By contrast I have no problems in the Huey which trims exactly as all these videos on trimming would suggest the sim should...

Experienced the same issues also when hovering. ForceTrim, Attitude hold and the helicopter starts to drift to the side although it was completely stable before.

I’ve noticed that in previous builds it looks like ED had some left cyclic already trimmed into the Apache when spawning to help with takeoff. now it’s trimmed differently, like it’s completely neutral. You can see this in the main rotor in external view. It was tilted before, now in the external view it’s completely level. I’ve also noticed the Apache is less yaw stable now. It tends to move around a lot more. Not sure if this is more realistic but I would think so.

Holding steady and takeoff is a bit more squirrelly than I remembered

I havent tested Test Server yet, but i agree that sliding makes it really difficult in starting/landing good. That needs definitely a change 🧐

Been having a good time learning the Hip lately. Guess Ill stick with it until they get this sorted. Hopefully they will get around to fixing it some time soon.

Personally i didn't really notice anything changing on takeoff with the changes, but definitely noticed landing was a lot more difficult

Thought I was going nuts with this, glad its something others experience at least!

It's almost like the downward force of the air is pushing the chopper in the opposite direction. The air when you tilt left will not be hitting the ground at 90 degress, it'll be directed back towards the side of the chopper? It might be as simple as the airflow is too funneled under the chopper and not programmed to fly down and outwards more?

Im new to the apache so I'm expecting a steep learning curve but the issues with it as mentioned here a hugely frustrating I'm finding that there's alot of inconsistency with the flight model which is making it impossible to learn it. For example I had a really good practice run with great take off and transitioning I really throught the practice hours I'd put in had paid off but then I tried a mission and it was like I'd never flown it before I understand weather is different in maps but still one minute I can land next I can bearly keep it in the air then when struggling with it vrs kicks me in the a Hope it's fixed soon

I gave up flying this module because of everything you said.. I hope the developer fixes these issues... Maybe like the F16 - 3 - 5 yrs away !

I feel like I've had an easier time flying the Apache with the latest update, and haven't run into the random roll overs on takeoff or in flight as much as I was for a short period of time. Now my new headache is that I switched from the full rudder pedals that I rest my feet on, to some pedals that let me rest my heels on the ground so I can hopefully get a little more precise with my rudder work. This morning flying was like a whole new aircraft, and felt so awkward, but I slowly started getting used to it.

Thanks for the video. I just wanted to ask that you consider turning on the "show controls" overlay for videos like this.

You say to have a heavy springs for GF3 with extension. I have 30 cm extension (20+10) with no springs, only the clutch set just so that I can leave stick to any position even at the extreme angle. And for me the trimmer is nothing else than command to autopilot channels to maintain that flight attitude from that joystick position. I have as well a 40 cm long custom collection, with 40 degree travel angle, dampened for an effect. To fly in the VR, Mi-8, UH-1, Mi-24 fly as expected (in limits of sim), they offer the good controllability and agility. But the Apache requires me to use only about 10-15% of the physical range that any other (ex.Gazelle) helo module requires. I have only in the crazy environmental tests with Mi-8 run out of the cyclic range, as having heaviest load on one side only, high wind (9 m/s) for retreating blade, at high temperature and high altitude. I would never fly a real Apache if it is so twitchy, that even looking the cyclic with wrong idea will flip it around, and yet I don't feel it having any power issues when it can so effectively maneuver.

Had this issue yesterday making my first 64 video in awhile. Hope they fix it soon.

Thanks again! ❤

Thanks man for your input. Im sure they will listen.

I thought it was me just having these issues on takeoff and landing because I only fly about once or twice a week. I think I will stay proficient in startup and fly some and do a little weapons training, but I will generally wait until they fix it.

Have you flown the Huey recently? I feel like the flight model was great and now its off. Fuel burn is way too much also.

Great video. I hope ED is/will see this.

What I’ve been doing to fix this, because it’s been around since before the FM changes: use right pedal in the first 35% of engine torque. This counters the initial right roll coming up from 18-22% and loads the suspension with enough friction. Then as the torque increases and the chopper starts to yaw in the opposite direction, I switch to left pedal and add in the left cyclic. From here I can go light on the wheels without drift at a 5ft hover. For typical loadouts of around 17.5K lbs the inflection point seems to be in the 30-40% range. You can check by just watching the Trim ball. It starts off moving right and then moves left. I think the issue is to do with the SCAS over compensating power to the tail rotor. It does this in flight as well which is probably why periodic SCAS saturation happens too easily and Force Trim Hold resets are necessary.

I thought it was just me. Thank you

this is part of the challenge with EA, negative training... im not saying there is a better way... but we end up having to unlearning and re learning skills we thought we had nailed

Imagine all Apache Pilots irl pissed at this new FM

I have noticed the same thing, but I was wondering if you have also paid any attention to the UH-1 flight model. It seems that the tail rotor is basically useless. Seems to have little power and require almost full left twist of the stick or pedal. Sometimes almost putting the Huey in a spin. While she is no Apache I still love flying the Huey and hoping that you could test the UH1 flight model or others could give me input. Maybe it is me but I know before the UH1 had a better or less troublesome flight model. Anyone have any idea or experiencing the same thing.

The LCT likes to roll over at high power settings as well.

Ues the Force... trim... Luke!

Government called and said, "You're simulation is too accurate. Break it.". DCS World patch and

i did notice when you set it down with GS she slid sideways

Pffff... having just revisited the apache after a year shelving I have experienced exactly the same (tail rotating, tipping over etc etc). I just thought I suck and watched your "lying" vid. Then I sucked some more.. This vid actually explains what's gong on LoL

Dude. Glad you made this. I thought it was because I hadn’t flown in a few days. The other thing that notice my flight path is always going right. Even with zero wind I’m flying sideways. Errr.

Still spins when you unlock the tail wheel

as you said "somthing is a miss", I think the sim's scripters need just to improve their codes to meet your valuable expertise, and review the tail rotor thrust ratio.. your are the godfather of combat sim rotor-wings man, you teach the whole copter community how to enjoy it.. & as one of them, I sincerely appreciated🫡.

hay Casmo, although I don't fly the Apache in DCS, I enjoy the insider opinion you give. I have seen a lot of videos of Ukrainian Mi24s and Mi8s Lofting rockets for range and wondered if that could be done accurately using the more advanced systems on the Apache. I know the Apache is universes more advanced in terms of sensors and I wonder if it would be a viable delivery method.

I've given up on the Apache until the flight model finds a happy medium, it is challenging enough without it continually changing so drastically, I still find myself dropping out the sky like a brick for unexplained reasons, despite continually being aware of vortex ring etc, seems more related to lack of torque left available because the tail rotor takes so much of the available ? IDK.....

4:03 Sometimes i forget to release the parking braking brake and end up in the same situation. I can't tell if Casmo had his released or set, but ive had better luck when my parking brake is released on touchdown.

I shortened my blades multiple times because I tipped over to the right while taking off and landing. Nice to know it's not just my poor piloting skills.

Man I was wondering why I was having such a hard time taking off when before I could get off the ground fairly easily. Not pretty but I'd get there

Wags has left the chat...

Bad news for me, I was already very bad when taking off, this is going to drive me nuts!

I feel like the recent update to the Gazelle features similar issues to what you note on the ground in the apache.

I think this is a bug with the sliding to the right. The Gazelle was doing the same thing. Had to force trim to the left to get a better take off. I hope they correct this to, which I think we all know they will. Good stuff Casmo, always appreciate your expertise and info.

Thank you for your time. Maybe if you showed the controls we could see what DCS thinks you were inputting at the controls. A discrepancy there might explain some of the problems.

Good to have a SME in this matter.

Man…I was wondering why i have so much trouble tipping right after I touch down at a FARP all of a sudden. Doesn’t ED consult with you (or other AH-64 pilots) on the modification of the flight model? Hope so b/c it seems like an easy fix if you made them aware of it

@CasmoTV What dou you think about the hover characteristic? Is it to wobbly or near to the RL aircraft? For me it doesn´t feel like a heavy chopper, that was much more sluggish before...

Casmo, have you notified DCS team about this via the forums or bug reports?

Been wanting to ask, your intro to your videos, is that your voice on the VHF?

i bounces like crazy when I trim

Great todays patch caused this ? Gonna try the gazelles new FM and hang up Apache for a bit

I dont feel bad now when getting this baby in the air!

I guess it's just the way it is with early access. But, I would also say they are looking for this sort of feedback through the open beta. On the other hand, ED shouldn't try to have too many aircraft in early access at the same time...

Thought i got worse randomly lol. Good to know I didn't regress. In flight is great at least.

Thinking of buying... has the sliding issue (and others you mention) been rectified yet? I imagine thats annoying as hell.

I don't know if you've tried flying it since the July 28th Update, but.... It's unflyable now. Something they changed has made it so that you literally cannot fly, and George can't even fly either. The RPM jumps to high, and low, and high. The torque drops to 0. It's fkn ridiculous. I was having no trouble at all and was actually getting pretty good in it. Then I loaded it up yesterday to try some live fire exercises. As soon as you bring the collective up enough to break friction with the ground it immediately starts sliding backwards, even with full stick forward. It just does not register forward stick at all. Then you bring the collective up enough to to start a taxi takeoff or hover and it starts shooting upwards, then the RPM skyrockets and you continue gaining altitude no matter where you put the collective. It starts gaining speed at an absurd pace and before you know it you're going over 100 knots. You can try to hover but as soon as you are under 30ish knots the thing just loses control and tries spinning despite rudder input. It will try banking left and diving. It's just all uncontrollable. If you try to let George fly it. You tell him to gain altitude and again it skyrockets up, then immediately banks left and loses all altitude. Once I had actually gotten control and was a decent height, so I gave George control to see if maybe he could manage it. Nope. He will spin out of control and bank wildly until eventually he just nose dives straight for the ground. I switched back and forth between the seats during one of those and the Pilot seat was literally spinning around but the CPG seat was straight as was the helicopter. So that was weird too. I recorded 2 videos to show a little of what was happening. I am REALLY glad I didn't actually buy the Apache, and have just been using it in trials... Not sure if KZfaq allows links in comments.. but here if you wanna see what I'm talking about. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ep9ybN2S2MmyZWQ.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fsl9gJypq5vehKc.html If they don't work, you can just find them on my channel.

May I ask what you are using for the cyclic in dcs apache? I'm using an extended flightstick and peddals, I'm struggling to decide if I should get a Cyclic or to use a throttle stick in dcs. Do you have any recommendations?

it kind of looks like there is no lateral friction on the tires causing it to slide?

Gale force winds blowing her sideways? Probably not!

0:19 I'm a little worried if a SME like you hopes the changes are just temporary. 2:29 It was in fact possible before to take out the force trim. BUt it required an FFB stick. Pretty much worked like that on all helos. If they now added a way to do that with non-FFB sticks, it's just good. But IIRC the SASes wouldn't go out, just the commands to hold a specific attitude. 4:00 dafuq? 5:22 That looks very bogus to me... reminds me of how MSFS2020 does it, you need like 80+% stick movement to keep the thing in place, but then it almost topples over to the other side and it's a weird tightrope dance with an egg on spoon in the mouth and someone constantly swinging the tightrope around while you're on it trying to prevent the thing from shifting into one direction or toppling over instantly to the other. 6:43 I hope it won't stay like that... it's even painful to just watch you struggle with it. My 2¢: I guess that's what the Open Bayduh is there for.

Now thats some translating tendency!

Just got started with the DCS thing Apache all the way trying to figure some stuff out. Still having issues with small correction's in 5-10' hover I'm using a warthog with an extension What do you have your axis curve at I keep increasing but it doesn't seem like it's making a big difference. Any suggestions?

Good to know!! I will stop using this helo until they fix this.

Has the situation changed? I recently bought the Apache (1 week ago) and I find it - not impossible but - really hard and tiring to control, especially when hovering and changing directions while hovering. Wondering if they made any progress with the flight model

okay, i'm not crazy, it really is acting crazy on the ground now. It feels like they turned down the friction of the wheels to reduce dynamic rollover from the tail rotor having too much thrust. Which is itself probably a bandaid solution for an issue related to the main rotor system imparting too much torque on the airframe when in flight?

"Do you have a track file?"

Hahaha! "Get good"! 😅😅👍👍

Have any of you had an issue since the last update where single player works fine but in multiplayer the gunner just scans in circles and if you have a human fill the slot they cant control the TADS and it keeps going in circles?

Are you referring to the last month's FM changes or is there something new coming our way soon that you already had a taste of?

hope they fix this bug with the take off soon.

ITS A SIMULATION!