All the big names were using titanium, carbon, tungsten, moveable weights, hollow body, adjustable sleeves, injected material, etc. Beyond that, the clubs must be made in a way to conform to certain rules. And they all make a game improvement, players distance, and more of a blade. Everybody should be suing each other you would think. Right or wrong the court will decide, but in the court of public opinion I think it looks like TM is suing Kirkland because they made it a third of the price.

I think Taylor Made are sending out a message that they think Costco are a threat and that enhances the reputation of Kirkland clubs!

Did everyone forget that PXG sued Taylormade for the exact same thing when the P790's came out?

More about hating the fact, that brands can make clubs just as good for much cheaper. People realizing the rip off that top brands charge.

There are plenty of hollow body players irons. There is enough difference cosmetically and in the construction that I don't think TaylorMade has a leg to stand on.

It’s crazy to that you can buy 3 sets of the Kirklands for almost what the price of the P 790’s are going for. A lot of golfers here in the states are starting to get a little fed up with the prices on the latest equipment.

Never would have considered buying Kirkland... but now Taylormade has given me reason to

Doesnt look like the P790 at all to me. There is no Taylormade logo, no matte insert in the back, different lines, different sheen, different top edge and a HUGE Kirkland logo. Being hollow with an insert is not unique either and there are only so many ways to make ot look in an illustration. No sensible person would think they are actually buying a P790 or vice versa.

What I don’t understand is Taylor Made are suing for copying their design. But then they are claiming false advertising because they aren’t the same? 🤔

In the US, patent infringement cases are an unusually high bar to prove. Likewise, enforcement of an NDA in California is almost equally difficult. If it were as easy as sharing cosmetic similarities, then Ping would have grounds to sue on all the copycats of the Anser putters in existence. Looking at how much these irons are going for on the secondary market, it would appear that this is a net positive for Costco in the perception of delivering a quality product at a discounted price. Jokingly, Costco may end up prevailing due to the garish Kirkland logo that they prominently stamped on the middle of the iron.

I think Taylor Made have a cheek, they have been copying Ping putters for years

I see it but, is this any different from Titleist scotty cameron copying ping anser putters? or any drivers with movable weights etc?

I worked in a golf shop many years ago; the customer who buys the kirkland is not a customer who would buy the taylormade - so i think taylormade's "damages" argument is hard to make, patent infringement? very possible..

I do not care that TaylorMade is not happy, I have this much .|. Sympathy for the big brands, they’ve been price gauging so hard recently, prices are ridiculous. And in before but R&D, lets not kid ourselves, most of the money goes to pay sponsorship and marketing, I couldn’t care less about that. I celebrate brands like Kirkland and Decathlon pricing gear fairly.

Didn’t PXG sue TaylorMade when they first released the P790 and there was a settlement agreement out of court, as we know the P790 has been a very successful club for TaylorMade.

Have you seen the Takomo irons? Whose do you think they look like? When you send your product to China to be made in the same factory what you think is going to happen? Stop paying PGA Tour players tens of millions and your price will decrease like crazy. A driver cost $70 to $80 to produce but sells for $599 in a brand store. It’s much like Nike making shoes for $22 and selling them for $150. Golfers are so gullible.

Would love to see a no equipment contract tour pro put a Kirkland long iron in play and win with it.

I don’t think the Kirkland irons are any more of a copy than any other hollow bodied iron out there. Why not sue every iron manufacturer then, they all make the same claims!

I think the people still would buy the Kirkland. Not really about trust. For them if it works as good as a very expensive Taylor made then they will go for the cheaper priced product

if Taylormade P790's are truly the premium iron clubset, why are they worried? Could it be, as with Titleist Pro-V1's before, that they really don't live up to the value that they claim? hmm...

The only 2 questions that matters is how much difference is required in engineering before it is considered different enough to not be an identical copy in patent terms - 0.1%; 1%; 10% or more; and are the TaylorMade irons that same decisively different from all previous clubs from other makers

How many other irons have the same internal design as this?

The Kirkland, has one weight inside it, with a small screw in the lower toe. The P790 has 2 Tungsten weights inside, plus the toe screw. Yes the external view is similar, but not the same. The people who buy Taylormade clubs, would NOT buy the Kirkland Signature brand. The reason, bag/brand appeal. The golfers who gravitate towards the Kirkland brand, would not purchase the P790, due to the huge price difference, suing Costco, will NOT increase the sales for Taylormade P790 IMHO. Maybe it is time for the GRAVY TRAIN of higher than inflation, annual prices rises for golf gear, TO STOP. The bigger brands, need to understand that golfers are not blind, and do not appreciate greed, when it's their hard-earned cash funding their bulging pockets. They need to face reality, understand that the race for increasing corporate profits margins year-on-year, could well hit a wall. If Costco can create a full set, and retail them for close to a third of the price, of the top brands, it puts a huge question over the cost of big brand clubs. They need to understand, golfers who buy their clubs, will eventually say, no more, and gravitate in greater numbers, towards Costco or direct to consumer brands. The bigger brands effectively bite the hands that feed them, through greed.

Go Costco!

TaylorMade has copied features of other manufacturers. The weight sliding mechanism of the M5 driver and SLDR driver is similar to one Mizuno used in a driver a few years before TM did it.

It’s why I hate TM, they bully & sue at every opportunity minor brands trying to create good performance at a reasonable price. This big brands are price gouging.

This only helps Kirkland: The clubs are copies, or the advertisement is misleading because they are not equal.... Unclear and unsubstancial contradiction generated in my opinion.

The patent system today has changed a lot. Formerly you got a patent only, when you could show that an idea was really new (reasonable search, but you still could get surprised). Today you can get a patent without going through those contortions. So having a patent is no guaranty to it's holding up. If somebody can show that something similar was done before the patent date, the patent can be out of the window. The big guys often get a patent even if they know that it will not hold up, because it put brakes on copies. It could be that the renegade Taylormade designer does know something. It is also strange that in the patent dispute Taylormade talks about infringement of patents, by the Kirkland clubs being so similar, whereas they claim in the advertising suit, that those clubs are so dissimilar that the advertising statements giving similar performance are wrong. Both ideas can nor exist at the same time. For the customers buying the Kirkland clubs, there should not be any problem, as long as they are satisfied with the clubs.

A few observations. There is no "insert" per say. The expanded view of the club head is like an... artists rendering... of what is going on inside the head. These clubs are cast. They are cast with an insert made of a casting sand which is then removed after casting. It is removed by baking the cast iron head which breaks down the adhesive the sand insert is made with and the sand is then removed through the port and the inside cleaned. This is the exact same way automotive manufacturers have been making intake manifolds and heads on engines for many, many years now. After the sand is removed and the now hollow clubhead is cleaned and finished, a polyurethane plastic is then injected into the head at high pressure through the port on the front of the iron. After it solidifies the port is then capped. With a screw in this case. Any tungsten or other types of weighting are attached to the original sand casting insert in whatever configuration fits the head they are pouring and adhere to the cast metal as its poured and are left behind when the sand is removed. Now, did Costco copy this from Taylormade? Not any more than any other club manufacturer has that makes hollow bodied iron heads. That most likely includes Taylormade themselves. Do they look like 790's? Not any more than a dozen other clubs on the market do IMHO. If this is the standard for litigation, you would think they would have done the same to anyone who uses a carbon fiber top for drivers or movable weighting systems or any other of the hundreds of things that every new club has. Again, just IMHO.

Alex, I agree with one of your followers, Infringement of patent. I play the Taylor made p790's, I get what TP is doing, I wouldn't play the Kirkland being the looks and construction is very similar, but does the manufacturing quality stand up to the beating the clubs would take on the course.

Much Ado about nothing! There are only so many ways to make a golf club! Reinvent,reinvent, reinvent paths have crossed before and always will!

Not exactly the same, but there may be similar elements protected by patents. The court will decide. Plus, you have to be careful what you say & how you say it. This matter is before the courts.

I guess Ping will be suing basically every putter manufacturer on Earth. Scotty Cameron worked for Ray Cook, and his putters look curiously similar. Should he be sued too? Plus, the Kirkland clubs are not "exactly" the same as P790's, there are several visual differences that make them different. There are also several other hollow body irons on the market with polymer fillers, Ping being one. And like any industry when people leave they usually go to another company in the same industry. Taylor Made loses this suit.

Technically, if I’m correct, a copy only needs to be different by 10% to be legal. So as long as long as 10% of the club is different they are good. The inserts do look different as does the back of the club.

Here is a thought maybe we the golfing community should have a class action lawsuit against all of the major golf companies for making clubs so dam expensive. One could make the argument they all share the same similarities from brand to brand. This is my opinion but I think TaylorMade is upset because Costco/Kirkland has done what other brand have done and copied their product BUT at a CHEAPER PRICE! And I think this pissed them off! Showing the world that golf products do not have to be so expensive to be good!

Lots to comment here. I started using kirkland balls and gloves. Why price…. Gloves lasted 2-3 rounds, ball lasted longer but noticed a distance drop… this fall i built a simulator/ man cave for the winters on Long Island… well testing the balls kirkland underperformed by 20 percent compared to titelist and callaway. So the kirkland brand in my opinion is for the hacker who plays once or twice a month… taylor made is not going to feel the pain of this kirkland copy , the person who is going to buy the taylor made is either a very good golfer or someone who has the money or both… taylor made is not going to get the hacker whose buying kirklands

Young man, mygolfsly literally cut them.in.half kind of similar but aren't they all....

I wish I would have purchased the Kirkland irons when I saw them in the store. I feel like I will never see them again. Taylor made isn’t missing out on my sale because I would never spend that much money. I want my Kirky irons.

Taylor Made are the kings of ripping other people off. That’s why they now own Adam’s golf. Because they stole Adam’s designs. Then bought them instead of going through a lawsuit.

All the big brands copy each other when they see something that is successful. In a market that has driver prices reaching $700 and individual iron prices reaching $200 each, having an affordable clubs is breath taking. The big brands normally buy the smaller ones out or make the resources hard for them to them to find so they can't make the product. Keep it up Kirkland!

It’s either patent infringement or it’s false advertising, it can’t be both.

As golfers, we are sick of bullshit pricing to cover massive marketing budgets. Do some more research on the Kirkland clubs.....

Alex, I cannot find these clubs for sale at Costco in the UK are the only available in the US ?

$1400 P-790 sues a $350 Kirkland iron !?!? Keep in mind that Kirkland is still making a big profit on their irons. So how much is TaylorMade making off of their supporters !!! ??? It’s sad really.

Maybe if major brands didn’t cost so much, they wouldn’t have to worry so much about Costco.

Plenty of hollow irons out there…. I think they are clearly different irons…. They also clearly have inserts inside them - mygolfspy cut one open. It’s going to depend on definitions at the end of the day…..my gut feeling is that Taylormade arnt going to win this - it’s going to be a case of similar but not the same… in the same way as my sub70 699 pros are hollow bodies and injection filled ( though they use resin ).

I get what people are saying about PXG and TM and how they did it first, but TM has a patent and if what is claimed by them against Kirkland in terms of misleading is true then they should be sued. This is why patents exist. That doesn't mean Kirkland will have to stop making them, they will have to pay reparations and stop marketing them how they do. In the end though, it's probably still a net win for Kirkland. That is an unpopular opinion though because most people are biased against big brands.

I'm fed up with overpriced clubs. Even the used market is ungodly high. I'm not a Costco member but I love seeing a similar iron way below the big named manufacturers. This really reminds me of the takomo irons. Similar fit and feel to the big names but half the cost and they look good too. These Costco clubs and the takomo's are proof that you can make a good quality iron and not rake the consumer over the coals...

So TaylorMade is suing Costco because the irons look like P-790s while at the same time saying they are not like P-790s because of the insert and customers are getting duped with inferior clubs. Got it, or am I missing something?

Robot testing show that the Kirkland irons do not fly as far. Not as far as many player irons with the same loft.

You can't patent cosmetics and they don't look identical. I mean, lots of clubs look similar and in that realm, they are different. TM needs to show that a technology that doesn't have prior art was used by kirkland. I hate patents so I hope TM loses. But I'm biased here.

I think Kirkland/Cosco filled a niche where players who want Taylormade but can't or won't pay the premium price of a Taylormade now have options. In my opinion, Taylormade isn't losing any money because people who can't afford or don't want to spend that kind of money aren't going to buy Taylormade anyway and those who can, will because, God forbid, they don't want to be seen playing, ahem...Kirkland.

NONE of this technology is so new, or such a well kept secret, or so massively revolutionizes the game as to be considered proprietary. Taylormade will be laughed out of a civil court by attempting to claim otherwise. If they were to get away with that then Karsten Mfg. Could sue every club maker on the planet, as literally EVERYONE copied their design. Which was, btw, truly revolutionary. Nothing since has improved significantly upon what Ping did in the 1980s. Fact.

Alex basically what you are telling us, Kirkland are virtually identical except for the price gouging that TaylorMade is doing. Oh right I forgot, TaylorMade has 15+ multi-millionaires that the recreational golfer pays for and Kirkland does not.

Taylormade should go after other companies making iron heads that use similar technologies but no, they’re only going after Costco. Everyone uses tungsten weighting. And now most companies have a hollow body design with some material injected into it. And don’t forget the fact that their components are made over seas which is the reason there seems to be so many knock offs of the major brands. If they stricter patents which states that no one can use similar technology then their lawsuit is legitimate otherwise it makes them look like they’re singling them out because they feel threatened by them. Looking at the breakdown of the heads, they use similar tech but there are many differences like lofts, offsets, face design, sole design, and head dimensions like top line and sole thickness.

Here's one of the problems. The way the club looks, on the back, might be a copy of the P790, but that club copies the Ben Hogan Apex

I think Cosco maybe looked at some of the similar cases on record and said it’s still well worth it. Taylor made may get something out of this. Not sure it will be getting the product off the shelves based on previous history mentioned by people below.

Costco: you should probably start saving your money for the judgement. $$$

I believe Kirkland iron sales are pretty good right now would like to see side by side comparison To see if they play the same

To say these look the same is a far reach. I think they look quite different. TaylorMade is just reaching for $$$ anywhere they can at this point. Honestly, I would've never considered buying the Kirkland clubs before because I wanted 'true golf brand technology.' All TaylorMade did by filing the suit is tell everyone their shits overpriced and that I can get the "same" club for cheaper. Should've just let the poor man be the poor man TaylorMade! To add insult to injury for TM, their last year driver SIM2 outperforms the Qi10 and is half the price.

Am I missing something? I don't get the "misleading information" about the injected urethane insert. It sounds like TaylorMade is asserting the insert does not exist and Costco is lying about it. Well, if that's the case, the Kirkland irons are even less like P790's. Maybe someone can explain it to me. I just don't get the false advertisement assertion.

I believe this is just posturing as there are at least a half dozen irons that are quite similar but have their own unique qualities. The are not a complete knockoff and that is just where technology is going. The fact someone that worked for TM also is hard to defend without a lot more knowledge what happened in his role and time between leaving, maybe he was released in a down scaling? I don't think Kirkland should be worried, it will just make lawyers richer and increase costs to end customers.

Its interesting that people think there are huge engineering firsts from Taylormade here. The truth is that there is not. Maltby created hollow body irons back in the 80's!!!! The Taylormade irons don't have anything in their design that is unique. Most of Taylormade's cost is from advertising and paying tour players to use their equipment.

False advertising is not very serious in the US, it happens all the time. We don't regulate that as strongly here as it is in UK/Europe.

The clubs may be similar as in Inserts etc.. But they are totally different in looks and can not be misidentified as TaylorMade's All clubs are similar and some even have metal and foam/plastic in them, Not sure about the weighted screw idea but others have used that as well.

The red “Signature” lettering is an awful touch reminiscent of 1970 Spalding. How Kirkland needed to copy TM in the placement of the word Tungsten is beyond me when there are so many ways to differentiate the club head.

Its fantastic that Costco are showing Taylormade, and most other of the big club manufacturers up for what they are. The money they are charging for golf equipment is outrageous. If Costco can sell these clubs at a third of the cost and turn a profit, it shows how much Taylormade are making. Of course Costco are not paying huge sums to top golf professionals to play their equipment. Therein lies the issue. Ultimately, in these times where people have to make choices about how they spend their hard earned money, it will be golf which will suffer, as people desert the game due to it being too expensive.

Taylormade and Titleist do this all the time. They sue to keep the cheaper options out of the market. Lawsuits take up so much time and money that these smaller company's can't afford. So they end up giving in or they get bought out. The problem they have with Kirkland is, they are way to big to be pushed around can afford to have lawsuits that last forever. Much like Nike did years ago when they came out with the $199 driver. All the other company's had to drop prices to keep their sales up. Nike also had Tiger Woods and they are freaking huge. The big golf brands couldn't sue them because they are just too big. I don't know the agreement between Kirkland and the designers have but if Taylormade does win, does that mean that Kirkland can't sell it anymore? That's something I would want to know. Do the designers of the club really have any risk? Did they just sell the design or do they get part of the profit? Kirkland is the one who bought the club design and are selling it. Seems like a whole lot of nothing that will lead to nowhere.

I have been trying to buy a set in their back ordered. I will buy the Costco any day.

Maybe I,m wrong, but were not PING the first to put the Tungsten weight screw in the toe of irons/ ....and urethane inserts ? So did Tailor-made copy Ping.?

I wish I would have secured these before this lawsuit. There is no reason the TM irons should cost 3x as much. That's what's frosting TM's onions. $$$ Similar yes, very... copy no.

With what you read from the lawsuit claims, TaylorMade seems to be contradicting themselves. On one hand they claim that Kirkland copied their Irons and technology, but then they accuse them of false advertising. Which is it? The statements are in opposite directions. I'm no attorney thank God, but what is TaylorMade worried about? If Kirkland's club is so inferior, people will not buy it or more importantly, they won't trust Kirkland again. I think TaylorMade has only increased Kirkland's sales by raising such a stink. If the average golfer can't hit the P 790 well, they certainly won't hit these any better. Wilson's Dynapower's are probably a better choice than either of these for most 15 plus handicap players and they are $799. I don't think you will see Kirkland's in this year's Masters Champion's bag anyway. This kind of stuff only makes the average player hate TaylorMade.

OK, so which one is it? Is it copyright infringement, patent infringement or is it false advertising? It can’t be both. Either they stole the technology and re-created it or they didn’t and it’s false advertising. I’m betting that they don’t win anything in this case because they’re trying to nail them for both things…conflicting.

this is the second video on these two sets of clubs. once i have cleared the chaff the only conclusion that i draw is taylor made is trying to deceive us. first they say that kirkland is copying their patents and it's false advertisement to say they are the same as taylor made p790. well which is it? is it the same or not? second what i see is a ripoff, if they are the same how come there is an almost 600 dollar difference in the clubs. i think the point is moot because kirkland is no longer making the club.

it will not sway me from costco. I'm a member, and I would totally buy them

They honestly just look like old blades to me more so the Kirkland irons being all polished. I'm pretty sure you could go find an old iron that looks the same and claim that Taylormade copied it.

I am becoming more and more negative towards these big brands. The Kirkland's are not a clone or copycat. Sure, there are a lot of similarities, but you could say that for quite a few clubs out there. In my opinion big brands are charging way to much money and they are not making it easy for anyone to get into golf, especially not as a hobby. Something to think about...if these are "copies" of the Taylormade clubs, why are Taylormade $1400+ and Kirklands $500. If they are "the same"... material or technology wise than why are we paying such a big difference. Is it simply because of the "name/brand". Who's ripping off who here? What is the picture we as consumers should actually be looking at? Should we be more concerned about smaller brands supposedly copying big brands...(for 1/3 of the price, btw) or that big brands are simply just charging way too much... (when a smaller brand can almost do the same thing for cheaper)?

Proof that the top brands are robbing golfers blind.

Taylormade has a ton in marketing RND and a contract with players int he PGA so it isnt as simple as some of the comments that say Taylormade is ripping people off because they can be made cheaper. There is a huge difference in the two brands not to knoch Costco/Kirkland

Problem is, far eastern patent and copyright laws are loose to nonexistent.

"Similar to" and "Identical to" are, legally speaking, completely different. All modern clubs use similar technology. They have to in order to compete with each other and be conforming. The question is whether or not kirkland stole from and used patented tech from taylormade. Personally I think the price of clubs has gotten way out of hand, and if a company can produce a $500 set that does the same thing as a $1500 set than more power to them.

Taylormade is not trying to prove that Costco infringed on the patents. Yes they are claiming that to get the trial in front of a judge. What they are hoping to prove is that Costco deceived customers to think they were getting a P790. Deceiving customers is grounds to award damages and/or prevent Costco from selling the clubs. This is what TM wants and is why they requested a jury trial because then the jury gets to award damages.

They look like the TaylorMade, but in all the reviews I've seen, they don't quite have the performance.

I am afraid that it is not as simple as it appears and needs far more knowledge than most of us have, and I speak as someone who spent twenty years working in intellectual property. First of all, how many parts of the design are in the public domain? Are any parts of the design obvious ways of achieving the desired result? The addition of a weighted screw to the toe, for instance. Most importantly, it needs a forensic knowledge of the exact wording of Taylormade's patent application(s).

Then why don't the sue Caley, Takoma, Ram, etc. etc. etc. If the Kirtlands are close enough to be sued over at 1/3 the price then wow I need to go buy a Kirtland set. The hollow iron head is everywhere.

What about the Taylormade Spider putter and the Odyssey Stroke lab putter? Did anyone get sued. I don't think Taylormade will win.

I’m in the market for decent cheap clubs - I like Kirkland products and half the game is in one’s head - so I’d buy them because of the price not that they seem to copy a club I couldn’t afford.

TM realizes Costco has paying members and would easily loose market share in a ultra competitive market of current golf industry. I would add TM likely has already won this round. I don't see Kirkland Signature iron set on the Costco website any longer. Costco's foray into golf has had hiccups getting sued on making their first golf ball now their iron set. Now I'd advise Costco to offer both blade and cavity back irons plus some customization for its members to select and price at $500.98. All the OEM's collective heads would explode on that idea.

You need to look at what is actually patented. Patents usually have work arounds.

TaylorMade and PXG have been found out. They don’t have a case.

I disagree that they look that similar? How many other irons are out there that look similar? 🤷‍♂️

Pro golfers, golf shops etc. hate Kirkland like people who work at Toyota hate Tesla. Why? It is a threat to their business and livelihood- and they instinctively know who will win the long game. All pro golfers hate LIV until the second they get that contract… I have a set of tired P790’s which I am thinking to replace with the Costco irons. I’ll probably be able to sell them on fb for more than I pay for the new Kirkies.

Hey Alex, I frequently hear you reference going to Scottsdale. You, your Dad, other instances. Are you referring to one of the world's golf meccas, Scottsdale, AZ. USA ? Or do yall have a Scottsdale on your side of the pond that I'm unfamiliar with ? Cuz if you come to Arizona with a little frequency, let's tee it up. I'll take you to an awe-inspiring course that people don't know about, a course that we don't really tell folks about unless we are taking them. Thanks again Alex, love the show, love the quick tips. Quality Content, simple delivery. Excellent.

i wouldn't buy kirkland gear, for the same reason i wouldn't but nike golf equipment, they are not golf equipment makers. however, i will not buy from the golf brands either now, so until realism hits golf prices again i will stick with 8 year old titleist irons, 6 year old titleist woods and hybrids, 15 year old TM driver. the driver i should probably have replaced a few years ago, but not at £600. the irons still have plenty of life in them, especially when for two less irons the price has doubled.

TM have a cheek, been at it for years, go back to Nubbins putters and Adams slots - TM just buy the smaller companies with technology they want to steal as cheaper than developing it themselves or paying out for copying

You're getting WAY ahead of yourself assuming that TaylorMade's assertions are true and will win out. First, there is a lot more to a club design than a stainless steel shell filled with urethane. God is in the details and, usually, it's the details that the patent protects. Second, are TaylorMade's patents enforceable? If Costco can show that the patented features are not sufficiently unique or significant, the patents may not hold up. Third, if Costco's DETAILS are significantly different from TaylorMade's, the patents may not apply. Finally, it sounds to me like TaylorMade is making conflicting claims: (1) Costco copied our design exactly, so they violated our patents and (2) Costco is making a club that they claim is like ours, but that's a lie, so they're deceiving the customer. Make up your mind, TaylorMade. Which is it?

Who cares 🤷‍♂️

Where is the speed slot?

Ping & other manufacturers have similar product designs & are not being sued? If the insert material is not as advertised then Costco should change it's advertising but I'd bet the performance difference is negligible. I hit a few shots on the range with the Kirklands and their performance was impressive!

Costco could buy Taylormade with change found in their couch. Maybe that Korean investment firm who bought Taylormade is viewing this as an opportunity to dump it to Costco as they only paid $380 million for Taylormade in 2017.