I LOVE this series Gary. Proper watch geek stuff we just want to see. Happy days!

NH35 movements always have an amplitude of around 250 to 270, Seiko builds them a bit loosely tolerance wise, this enables them to run for a decade-plus before servicing is required. I had one NH35 based watch that kept terrible time, which was due to a faulty mainspring so I swapped it out from a scrap movement I had kicking around. The PT 5000 seems to have a lower amplitude than I would expect, but I have to say most Asian clones of the ETA seem on the low side, so either some friction in the train or a weaker mainspring.

If you used Caliber Corner for your research, it would be nice to get a shout-out and be listed as a reference. We work hard on the site and we're creators too. Giving proper credit reinforces credibility, no?

Thank you for the thorough overview of these movements! That chart was especially helpful. I'm definitely going to get a watch with the PT5000 movement for my next watch.

I'll have to give the PT5000 a go. My experience with the Miyota 90s5 (in a Tisell Explorer) couldn't be better. I've not ever been bothered by - or even noticed - the rotor wobble many complain of. 🤷‍♂️ The Miyota 90S5, the Seiko 6R35 and the Selitta 330 GMT mov't were the big pleasant experiences of 2020 for me. But it was the Miyota 90S5 that really pleased me, due to the price you can buy pieces housing it for. That said...NH35's are fine! I've certainly not had a dodgy one.

I've read that the PT5000, like the ETA it's based on, can break if hand wound. That resistance you felt may not be a good thing. Winding it slowly and carefully, four or five times to get it going, then letting the rotor do the rest, is what's recommended. Having said that, there are loads of reports of them running dead on, 0spd, from the factory.

You're right that the rotor noise becomes white noise Gary, I wear a Sistem51 for work and I don't notice it now, until I haven't worn it for a week, and then I do! Nice series of reviews, well done!

Bought a few automatics over the years. Then last summer I got a Bulova Lunar-Pilot with a HA quartz movement and I fell in love with quartz again. Just so nice to have a watch that you can sync with a accurate time source and it stays that way day after day after day. Makes my automatics seem like crude toys. Oh yes and if you have several watches...it's running when you pick it up to put it on.

Great episode Gary. Lovely bit of macro of the movements too 🔬🤤

re: movements. I've posted before that I have a Steeldive 1953 that runs within COSC specs. Totally an accident, but verified via timegrapher. However, the quality of the execution around the movement isn't great - the crown won't re-thread most of the time and is a pain in the butt. But for $100 the overall package is pretty darn good. I'm going to be giving it away to someone who will appreciate it.

Thanks Gary for the comparison! I wasn't aware of all the details. I think a little first step for SM & Co could be a regulation of the movement instead just throw it in the case. For me it seems that the accuracy of the watches is just randomly (within the specific spec). I would pay a little bit extra for such a service.

My Phoibos Eagle Ray has an NH35 running at just less than + 1sec over 24 hours. To get this accuracy I have to leave it overnight with the crown up. Really really pleased with that. No idea what the beat error etc is, but I’m happy, if it’s as reliable as people say I will be very happy.

I am liking this type of review and comparison. Thanks!!

Thanks for the fantastic content yet again

I like these comparison series you’re doing Gary. I liked the Datejust series. Hoping you come up with some more interesting themes in the future

Totally agree about the significant difference in the feel of the PT5000.

I've checked the real world accuracy of my modest affordable watch collection containing a few samples of each movement. I found the NH35's less than 5 seconds / day off, PT5000 5-10 seconds off, and Miyota'S (8215) 10-15 seconds off. I'm sure it's a random error, so I was surprised to see my small sample fall neatly into categories.

In view of all the criticism of the 9xxx series I have to wonder why it hasn’t been redesigned with a quieter bi-directions winding system. Not only that, but it is more efficient when winding in both directions. I agree. More watches should be offered with the PT5000 movement.

Great to see a breakdown of the miyota, the noise of the rotor is a deal breaker for me. Excellent video Gary 👍🏼

I'm enjoying this comparison series 😊😊😊

Yes Gary, we still enjoy these reviews! 😀 It's the first time you've done a movement comparison like this and I found it particularly interesting. Getting a well regulated movement in a watch is always a matter of luck unless the watch manufacturer takes the extra affort to regulate the movements after they are cased. And I've really come to appreciate the NH35. It never keeps me from buying a watch when powering it. But the Miyota 9015 is my favourite out of these movements. When I wear the Exciton, I don't get any noticeable noise or rotor wobble unless I force it. A plastic movement holder may sound cheap, but the advantage is that it keeps away more of the noise of the movement than a metal movement holder. Cheers!

Hi Gary, nice review. Happy you considered the PT5000, it seems really robust!

I must be a weirdo because I like the rotor spin. Kinda fun to use it like a fidget spinner.

I have a Phoibos Sentinel with the Myota 9015 and when i bought it it was ok for about a fortnight then it kept stopping , i gave it to my local watch repairer who after inspecting it told me parts could not be had as the movement was obsolete?? Sent it bac to the company i bought it from in the USA and they repaired it without a problem. So i dont know what that was all about ??

Hello. A great vido, thanks a lot. It would be very interesting for me to hear your opinion/comparison about PT5000 and SW 200. There is a noticable difference in the price, so is there the same noticable difference in the movement quality/parameters? Thank you.

Good review and analysis. Thank you.

Very good review Gary....rotor noise does not bother me, however for the price differential given performance the PT5000 is looking like a reasonable alternative to me...... well done, thank you 👍

It's random in reality ! I haven't the same results when i wear watches with these movements. I have several NH35 in different watch brands, none have the same accuracy. Same thing for ETA and Selitta. I have only one PT5000, into a San Martin "Datejust" .... -1s ... in 5 days, always !!! 😉

I've just seen on AliExpress the new San Martin BB 58, the black gilt with red triangle on the lume pip is just awesome... But too close to a replica to my licking... Plus the hexagonal logo does not match the vintage look. Anyway the price with the PT5000 is quite high, I was surprised that close to the GMT vintage. But I guess the watch worth it, I can't wait for you to review this watch.

Great review as always Gary!!! I’ve missed you!

Hi Gary, please share the link to the $70 PT5000 movement. Thanks in advance!

Impressions on my first (and so far) only PT5000 in my Cronos Sub Date (6005?) from summer 2023: - feels pretty much exactly like all the SW200s/ETA2824s I've ever interacted with. Setting the time might be just a bit "lighter", but that could be due to the larger crown on the Cronos. Overall it feels very smooth and precise and the crown screws in and out about as smoothly as on my CW C63. - accuracy/consistency was always pretty good. It did run rather fast out of the box (~ +16s/d), then I had it slowed down a tad, after which it sped up again for a while and then it started to slow down on its own. I just had it on wrist for a little over a week without re-setting the time and it was at +2s after that period ... which means it ran very close to +/-0s/d in daily wear. But I'm not sure it will keep running like that, seeing how it has been slowing down over the last 6 months or so. - from what I can tell with my puny time-grapher app for Android: It has always had a bit of beat error (0.2 to 0.5) and the amplitude has always been on the lower end of things. I think it's currently at around 240 to 260. NB: That same app reports around 300 for all three SW200s I own, so the app is probably more reliable than one might think. I would love to be able to service this one myself, just to see how clean/dirty the movement is and how well or badly they've lubricated it at the factory. Seeing its months-long trend of slowing down more and more, I fear I might be in a position soon where I'll have to either have it serviced or replaced. Financially, servicing wouldn't make much sense I reckon, since I'd probably pay more for the service than I paid for the entire watch. Still: I'd hate to throw away a movement that perhaps only needs a good cleaning and re-oiling, so I might start looking for a more affordable watch-maker... :)

Apparently unidirectional rotors are more resistant to shock also Miyota 9015 movements are more reliable than ETA 2824 derived movements.

Great video. I am still waiting for series with hand wound mechanical movements. In my opinion these are much better to look at it and use it. I love it microbrands with these movements (Marloe, Farer, CH..) or small brands as Stowa or Archimede etc. It will be good to see these in action in your hands. I wish you all the best. Keep going!

Thanks for the comparrison. Don't know where you get the good readings from the movement. On my TimeGrapher, I get for an NH35 readings between -8 / +18 sec. and 0,3 / 1,4 ms beat error. Only a SW200 and ETA do good jobs....

The chinese have really stepped up the game. I have much respect for the NH movements..great vid.

It is possible to swap from nh35/9015 movement to pt5000 with the same watch case?

The budget end are all over the place, even with NH35 movements as I've got one running at +4 seconds & another that started at +2 & is now at -8 seconds after a year. They also seem to change after being left for a while, almost like a reset. Randomly my most accurate movement is the GMT in my Pagani, which even more randomly came with a 120 click bezel properly aligned & a perfectly aligned cyclops. Must've had the wrong dial put on after lunch on a Friday 🤣

awesome video! I do own many different movements (7s26, NH35, SW200, ETA 2893, Miyota 9015, DG) and my favourite is the miyota 9 series that beats inside my Zelos Mako. The movement feels great and the winding is super smooth as well. I wish more brands would use the miyota 9 series in their watches. It’s the best 4Hz movement that doesn’t break the bank.

Great Video. Thanks mate. ❤

On the graph, how come you didn't put the price for the sw200? When you were using the crowns with the microphone right next to it, how come we didn't hear the audio? I enjoy these comparison videos and I like the new opening you have been using the past couple of videos. Keep up good work. What do you think of the Pearl DG5833 GMT movement "Mingzhu"?

Very good review and very interesting. Should be done more often. I own one PT5000 in a Phylida NTTD. It has - 0,3 s/d, my most accurate watch. Then some NH35`s within COSC data, and then the ETA's and SW200. I also would go with the PT5000, Gary.

Most entry level Japanese movements run with an amplitude of around 260 to 270 when new. The amplitude on the ones you have isn't bad apart from the nh35 in the San Martin. I've found my watches with Selitta sw209s in them perform best with amplitudes of around 320 degrees.

Are you sure the pt5000 rotor wasn’t turning with the crown and that was why it felt stiffer?

Interessante spiegazione ! grazie

28800bph movements will need servicing more often and theoretically have a shorter life. Older watches often ran at 18000bph which gave longevity. Vostok Amphibia movements run at 19,800 beats per hour which is quirky. Most of my watch movements run at 21,000bph, like the Seagull st16 in the Loreo sub homage.

Question have you Demagnetized the watches before testing?

And straight in at No6 it’s Gary and the Geeksters with ‘Amplitude’...

Brilliant. Still loving this series. I'm wondering why the San Martin BB58 is so much more expensive now. I think they dropped the ball. It's no match for the vintage ghost.

It's when you removed the case backs it is telling who makes the better watch and has the best qualities. Cronos using a PT5000 and a metal movement holder. An easy winner. Gary going further by looking into this properly.

I am reading more and more about problems with the PT5000. They haven't mastered the art of lubrication. Some are packing in after 6 months or so, and some (like mine) have a spinning rota when wound issue. As you know, Cronos were less that helpful regarding this issue, and I am now stuck with a faulty watch. Mine is also running fast, and the back won't come off so I can regulate it. To be honest, it's a bag of nails. The Miyota 9015 is a far better bet. Are you making sure the watch is fully wound before taking notice of the amplitude. Amplitude on the NH35 is normally quite low, I wouldn't worry about it Gary

I have a few NH35's, one 9015 and they're are all more accurate than my SW200's and my one COSC!

Great comparison but would have been great if you included the Seagull st2130 movement with the Seagull dive watch 6057H.

😱 my San Martin Whaterghost V3 runns with +0.5 sec per day. I guess it's always a part of fate how good your movement will be.

I agree. PT 5000 then Miyota for me. I hate the handwinding on the Miyota though - you get no feedback. I find on-wrist accuracy is the most important measurement personally. Also what is the positional variance of the different movements? Better movements often have less variance.

Accuracy and reliability are the most important factors for me. How often would you notice rotor noise?

I don’t know if my hearings not upto scratch but I don’t hear anything from my exciton unless I put the watch to my ear and spin the rotor! I love it as as you say you can make the watch slimmer so I’d personally go for that but don’t own a watch with a pt5000 in as yet but it’s on my list to get! Great series these are Gary really informative and enjoyable. More please!!👍🏻👍🏻

Pt5000 is a very fine movement, but DO NOT hand wind it too often or you will encounter the 410 pinion issue for sure.

Amplitude is determined by the design of the movement. Seiko movements have generally lower amplitude than rolex but they are designed that way. To put it another way nh35 movement amplitude should be compared to designated psrameters for that movement; not against another movement. Apples v oranges?

Bought PT5000 a year ago… stunning so recently ordered another one The quality is in the sink now, Rust! …, production scratching, no serial number any more, and dissapointing timegrapher outcome, No more PT5000 for me

i like the NH35 and PT5000. My PT5000 runs at +11 s/day,

I'm a bit disappointed with my first experience owning a 4R36 in my Seiko Turtle -17s/d. Out performed by all the 7S26 and 6R15 movements I own.

I wonder if it is safe to hand wind the PT5000, it being a clone of 2824, which, according to what I have read in the web, has some weak gears in its hand winding system. On the other hand, the PT5000 might be a clone of the SW200 instead (read somewhere) and possibly incorporated its gear improvements (wishful thinking).

My Pagani design pd1661, 2021 Version, runs at minus 2 secs in 24 h. After my Regulation without any timegrapher :-)

You can hear the A205 as well, especially if you live right on it (London joke).

I've seen posts before suggesting the NH35 is a less accurate movement becuase of the manufacturer's quoted figures and the low cost. There's economies of scale at play - they can all be regulated and the volume of NH35s made keeps the cost low. Not saying there aren't differences, but the NH35 at the price it's produced has to be the best value.

All my nh35 movements are more accurate than my myota 9105 ...

PT5000, seems very interesting. A Chinese movement that is properly grappling with the Swiss. Its very interesting times we live in

I paid $220.00 for the Tisell Submersible. And feel it is worth the money. Killer Lume and Beautiful.

Next: Grades of movements, how one movement can be cheap, and the same movement fitted with higher end components could be cosc certified.

I would really love to see microregulation on miyota or seiko, but I know it would mean a declaration of accuracy… and apparently they don’t want to declare it.

Which one would you recommend for long term reliability? PT5000 or NH35?

I like the hip hop intro you used in the video, we're going to have to change your name from Old man time Gary to OG Man Gary. Thank you for the review.

If the winding is not Bi-directional the freewheel griiiiiiiiind drives me crazy.

I love the fact that PT5000 is using a metal movement holder. Plastic in a watch only cheapens it

I wonder if lubing the rotor on the Tissel would bring the noise level down....

In fact, they all used for affordable watches, so the accuracy or the reverse power, noise... didn't bother me much, I have a snzh55 with Seiko in house 7s36 and a Bulova with Miyota, they all run below -5 to 8sec/ a day and were OK with me, why pay over $10,000 to get a +2/-2sec watch? There's a lot of valuable things in life more than just a time piece . Your success comes from your personality, nothing to do with the thing on your wrist. 😀

I have the Miyota 9015 and also the no date version - one is 1 second a day fast, the other gains about 10 sec a day. I also have a PT5000 - it runs around 2 seconds a day fast. People claim the Miyota is noisy, but in my experience, - no worse than my Omega and Hamilton automatic watches!

Thanks! I just participated on a Kickstarter campaign for a microbrand and they are using a NH35A movement. They gave us an option after some weeks to upgrade into a Miyota 9015 or a Sellita SW-200, but Im just starting my watch journey and don't really understand the differences, plus the upgrade means more money, $77 for the Miyota and $175 for the Sellita... which I was not sure if was worth it. I'm sticking with the NH35A, since it will be my first mechanical.

do the review of dirt cheap automatics from cuanqin and others from ali

Harsh on the accuracy. They were all pretty good, I thought. remember the positional variance, so in use it would be different.

Thanks for video...laik 👍

PT5000 has only 38h power reserve. Same problem with the SW200. I think that's a big minus. Miyota 9015 is my choice.

I thought that this was an interesting little 'grab' from an article on the PT5000: 'On January 24, 2018, a Shancheng brand watch powered by the the caliber PT5000 received attention for receiving chronometer status after passing tests at the Glashütte Observatory in Germany...'

i´ve got a watch with the miyota 9015 and during the day i can definetly hear the rotor and feel the wobble

I would prefer the nh35 over the pt5000. Hi-beat is smoother but wears out faster so service intervals will be shorter.

This is a great discussion Gary, thank you 😊👍 I personally love the Miyota 9 series and my understanding that PT500 is an excellently made ETA 2824 clone. Having said that when I am modding a watch it is hard to beat the NH movements - they are so robust and easy to work with...and they have so much choice when it comes to cases, dials and hands.

My treasure seeker by scurfa has a miyota 9015

They need to upgrade these to get closer to 70 hours reserve. 40 hours? C'mon man. If Seiko can do it, so can they. Hell, I'd love to find a quartz movement to replace an NH35 and build a 6105 homage/quartz.

Magnetism!! Do you ever check if the watch has been magnetized? No reviews ever check if the movements have been subjected to a magnetic field. I bought a Feice FM201 with the Seagull ST-1721 movement. It ran fast by 15s per day! I think it had been affected by the magnet in the Milanese bracelet. I downloaded a free field-tester app to my phone. It said my watch WAS magnetized but my other watches were not. Otherwise, really enjoying your reviews. I hope to build my own watch someday. Thanks Gary!!

The NH35 performance swings greatly from piece to piece, but I feel it’s a solid movement and will almost always fall into the guaranteed -/+ spd spec. Should you need to replace the movement for some reason, it’s a easy and economically friendly swap.

I assume the 70 dollar is for the PT5000 as i was under the impression that the SW200 has a higher retail price. At least why would the price of the watch be higher with a SW200 compared to one with the PT5000? 😉

Thanks for going to all this trouble. Why do you use dollars as your standard currency?

Very interesting... Because I just bought a San Martin. After being told how fabulous they are. And it came last. 😂 However, mine contains the lesser used, for now, YN55... maybe that movement would have come 6th🤣🤣🤣 Great video, very informative.

My Cadicen Diamon with Miyota 9015 ~$100, How???

Interestingly, I have a lot of watches with Seiko movements, but 0 with NH35.

the cost of the sw200 is more then then the 9015

I'd still get a cheap Aliexpress watch with an NH35, because it'll run for decades without a service and you can replace them easily. If you go with a Sellita you have to take much more frequent servicing into account. Not something I'd be keen on for an Aliexpress watch. And whatever you do, never, ever, let your NH35 be serviced. It's a complete waste of money.

My Steeldive is running at +1.3 sec a day.

The miyota sounds like an old 8215 free spinning like , wouldn't be very happy considering that's supposed to be an upgrade over the nh35