Nibble Size: Let's make some memories!

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Adrian's Digital Basement

Adrian's Digital Basement

3 жыл бұрын

It can be hard to find 30 pin 4mb SIMMs, at least compared to 256k and 1mb modules. A new Open Source hardware project has appeared that allows you to make 4mb SIMMs yourself at home.
Thanks to viewer Alex for sending in the parts that made this video possible!
RAM:
Toshiba DRAM TC5117400CSJ-60
4,194,304 WORD X 4 BIT DYNAMIC RAM
--- Video Links
Gerbers:
github.com/UpLateGeek/Let-s-M...
Vogon's Thread:
www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?...
--- Tools
Deoxit D5:
amzn.to/2VvOKy1
store.caig.com/s.nl/it.A/id.16...
Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor:
amzn.to/2VazxDS
www.jonard.com/Products/EX-2-...
Wiha Chip Lifter:
amzn.to/3a9ftWw
www.wihatools.com/precision-c...
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
amzn.to/3a9x54J
Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
amzn.to/2VrT5lW
Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
amzn.to/2ye6xC0
Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
www.rigolna.com/products/digi...
Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
amzn.to/3adRbuy
TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
amzn.to/2wG4tlP
www.aliexpress.com/item/33000...
TS100 Soldering Iron:
amzn.to/2K36dJ5
www.ebay.com/itm/TS100-65W-MI...
EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
www.eevblog.com/product/121gw/
DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
amzn.to/2RDSDQw
www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Logic-DS...
Magnetic Screw Holder:
amzn.to/3b8LOhG
www.harborfreight.com/4-inch-...
Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
www.ebay.com/itm/14-16-18-20-...
RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-5-10PCS-...
Heat Sinks:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32537...
Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
amzn.to/3b8LOOI
--- Links
My GitHub repository:
github.com/misterblack1?tab=r...
Commodore Computer Club / Vancouver, WA - Portland, OR - PDX Commodore Users Group
www.commodorecomputerclub.com/
--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
• How to remove chips wi...
--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino
Outro Music:
Abyss by | e s c p | escp-music.bandcamp.com
Music promoted by www.free-stock-music.com
Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)
creativecommons.org/licenses/...

Пікірлер: 566
@Flextro
@Flextro 3 жыл бұрын
This type of chips easy to solder with soldering iron, not hot air --use good gel type flux --do not apply solder on the pad before placing chip! --you can use big paper clip to hold chip on pcb So, apply gel flux to pads, place chip and touch legs on the corner using slightly "wet" tip
@chrisyboy219
@chrisyboy219 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah, bigtime. Don't waste your time with solder paste. That stuff is best for pads that are flat to the board. These types of chips actually make a perfect angle to accept the soldering iron tip laying alongside the pad and the pin.
@darkwinter6028
@darkwinter6028 3 жыл бұрын
The “drag” soldering technique works well with this. Use a big flat tip (chisel, screwdriver, or hoof) on a good temperature controlled iron for best results.
@benbaselet2026
@benbaselet2026 3 жыл бұрын
Why no pre-tinning the pads though? Hard to position the chip on the domed solder blobs?
@Flextro
@Flextro 3 жыл бұрын
@@benbaselet2026 Yes, exactly! Also all factory board include jlcpcb and over are already pre-tinned (HASL process)
@StevenIngram
@StevenIngram 3 жыл бұрын
Hmm, if you hit the applied paste with hot air before putting on the chip, wouldn't it tin the pads making for easier reflow when mounting the chips?
@Codeaholic1
@Codeaholic1 3 жыл бұрын
Adrian I think it's great to show something you're _not_ good at. Many things take practice and effort to get good at. I think it's important for us all to remember that. Kudos for the great video!
@chriswilkinson1122
@chriswilkinson1122 3 жыл бұрын
This is so true. if you watch some videos, they make this type of work look easy. I accidentally destroyed a IIsi board when trying to fix a SMD IC similar to these, felt really stupid that I couldn't just fix it like everyone else seems to be able to. This is very precise work that requires precise tools. Thanks for sharing Adrian!
@burningtoys5519
@burningtoys5519 3 жыл бұрын
I came to post this exact comment. No one is perfect at everything all the time. I'm glad i watched this video and read the comments. I learned a lot. Thanks, Adrian!
@bobblum5973
@bobblum5973 3 жыл бұрын
"Practice makes perfect." It's an old adage, but a good one. You're gaining experience, learning what _not_ to do is as important as what you _can_ do. For example, you were trying to solder with the PCB loose on the table top, I was thinking you needed a small vise, then I see you switched to those "helping hands" clips. Another tip is the soldering; it can be hard to find the appropriate temperature for what you're working on, regardless of whether you're using an iron or the hot air. You want to get the part and traces hot enough to let the solder flow, yet still not too hot to damage them. And I totally agree on the 63/37 solder, I've used that alloy of Kester for over 45 years. Quality tools and materials make the job easier.
@absurdengineering
@absurdengineering 3 жыл бұрын
@@chriswilkinson1122 Maybe counter-intuitively, this is the sort of work that requires the biggest hammer you got :) I mean: a wide tip high power soldering iron and lots of flux, and you just drag the tinned iron along, touching the pins and the board. The smaller the iron and the finer the tip the more daunting it gets. These jobs simply cannot be done with tools that have high thermal resistance, and very fine tipped “SMT” soldering irons are notoriously unsuitable for this job. You’d think you need finesse: no, you need low thermal resistance and lots of heat quickly, and thus a wide-tip iron that resembles a flat blade screwdriver - tip 5-8mm wide, 1-2mm thick, and an iron 75W at minimum, with good temperature regulation. It turns this into a very simple job and takes a few seconds per side of the IC to get it soldered. I had a job where I had to solder a few hundred PLCC chips many years ago, and I did it in a couple of hours using a 100W iron, a jar of homemade flux made of bow rosin dissolved in alcohol, and a brush to apply said flux. I then washed the boards in alcohol.
@Aruneh
@Aruneh 3 жыл бұрын
Homemade memory, that's pretty cool.
@PeachIceCreamy
@PeachIceCreamy 3 жыл бұрын
It’s incredible!
@stevencarlson5422
@stevencarlson5422 3 жыл бұрын
he will defiantly remember this project lol
@ctrlaltrees
@ctrlaltrees 3 жыл бұрын
I like that you always show your learning process and mistakes - it's all too rare in the world of KZfaq. Great to see that it worked out in the end!
@smithincanton
@smithincanton 3 жыл бұрын
Being humble is something we as a society have lost. Everyone wants to be "NUMBER 1!!" but accomplishing anything is an accomplishment in it self.
@StephenGutknecht
@StephenGutknecht 3 жыл бұрын
Adrian - great job! Your attitude of open mistakes is really awesome. Reminds me of Richard Feynman's discussions on how in science there is a bad habit of publishing only the working solution and not sharing all the dead-end learning - which he found incredibly valuable.
@3vi1J
@3vi1J 3 жыл бұрын
Adrian: THANK YOU for sharing the disappointments/mistakes as well as the successes. I've got 40 years of software expertise, but only recently started getting serious about electronics work, and it makes it much less discouraging on my old eyes to see others going through the same difficulties and sharing what they've learned in the process. Congrats on the working modules!
@MrRewdtv
@MrRewdtv 3 жыл бұрын
Its easy to get frustrated while learning, but remember, your attitude about it makes or breaks your confidence and patience. Give yourself some credit, and keep a positive attitude. Everyone had to start somewhere with something new
@joshm264
@joshm264 3 жыл бұрын
For solder paste, you're supposed to use a PCB stencil, which has cutouts for each pad. You line it up and then just smear it across the board. EEVBlog made a great video on it, it's episode 415
@ActionRetro
@ActionRetro 3 жыл бұрын
This is literally amazing. I've always wondered about homemade modules.
@justinwhite2313
@justinwhite2313 3 жыл бұрын
One of my favorite parts of your channel is that you don't edit out mistakes or the challenges you experience. I love that we get to experience that with you. I really enjoy watching you work through the problem and finding a solution. So many people could benefit from these skills!
@darthbukowski6894
@darthbukowski6894 3 жыл бұрын
I’m glad people are making kits like this. The Apples and PCs still can be useful. Just because they are old does not mean they should be put out to pasture.
@thegreene3
@thegreene3 3 жыл бұрын
Dont beat yourself up. Mistakes are great learning experiences. I love your channel and all the work you do. Keep it up! Thank you good sir!
@electronicengineer
@electronicengineer 3 жыл бұрын
I totally agree with you. This channel is real because Adrian IS real. Thank you for showing real life and not edited reality Adrian. I think you did just fine, all things considered!
@danielmartin7547
@danielmartin7547 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks Adrian, with all the hours seen Rossman soldering videos and now yours i´m much confident to try surface soldering. Greatings from Argentina!
@IgnoreMyChan
@IgnoreMyChan 3 жыл бұрын
0:15: "Ways ago, back in july." Haha, July? That's not that long a... wait!!! 😳
@andrewgwilliam4831
@andrewgwilliam4831 3 жыл бұрын
In 2020 time, July was tweventeen months ago.
@andrewgwilliam4831
@andrewgwilliam4831 3 жыл бұрын
@Llama Craft No idea what that means?
@Blaze-zm7zt
@Blaze-zm7zt 3 жыл бұрын
@@andrewgwilliam4831 it means what in japanese
@andrewgwilliam4831
@andrewgwilliam4831 3 жыл бұрын
@@Blaze-zm7zt How odd!
@mikkels5724
@mikkels5724 3 жыл бұрын
Apply the solder paste using a stencil. MUCH easier, and the stencils cost almost nothing from JLCPCB and the other Chinese suppliers. And also - the solder paste contains all the flux you need.
@cmorda11
@cmorda11 3 жыл бұрын
Stencil, solder paste and frying pan! Easy peasy
@mikkels5724
@mikkels5724 3 жыл бұрын
@@cmorda11 Never tried the frying pan method. I have an old oven in my workshop ;)
@StrapMerf
@StrapMerf 3 жыл бұрын
+6million Stencils and then this just is pure magic sauce..
@goury
@goury 3 жыл бұрын
You don't really need a stencil for a small bunch of tiny PCBs, just right size needle and not ruining it by submerging in liquid flux and all it takes is but a ten seconds
@bobbybiggs4348
@bobbybiggs4348 3 жыл бұрын
No such thing as enough flux
@jonathancombe9991
@jonathancombe9991 3 жыл бұрын
It's nice to see how much effort people put into keeping these old computers going (and I very much include you in that Adrian). I must admit I nearly skipped this video thinking from the first part of the intro this was going to be just a video of Adrian installing some RAM chips in Macs, which didn't sound very interesting. That will teach me because of course it was really about him making some SIMMs, which I did find really interesting (and glad to see they worked).
@enjoythepig
@enjoythepig 3 жыл бұрын
That was a truly use useful video. I actually have a ton of RAM myself, in fact I just got a tester which should arrive today, but you never can have too many 4mb 30 pin modules. Great tip!
@RetroGadgetMan
@RetroGadgetMan 3 жыл бұрын
Great video , I'm glad you showed the learning process even though it was frustrating. It was interesting to watch.
@jong2359
@jong2359 3 жыл бұрын
You do have to say, it is very satisfying to use DIY RAM that you hand-soldered. I love your moments of humility, they are hilarious... but don't be too hard on yourself =)
@cesarferrari3385
@cesarferrari3385 3 жыл бұрын
You are doing a great job! And it's fun to watch
@PatrickDunn13078
@PatrickDunn13078 3 жыл бұрын
Adrian I know why I like watching your videos, you’re just so normal like me trying to solder, not the best! You seem a like a great guy to know and keep up the great videos! I’m always learning something I either forgot or didn’t know. Also the Commodore book I did get on Kindle and it’s been fantastic. Boy the mistakes they made back in the day but a lot of fun to read how the Vic and 64 were developed was fun also the PetJet antics!
@richardbrobeck2384
@richardbrobeck2384 3 жыл бұрын
Hello Adrian's thanks for the great video and your soldering skills look like they are improving I have been working with electronics for 45 years . this ram will come in handy when finishing restoring my Mac Se/30 .
@peternielsen8362
@peternielsen8362 Жыл бұрын
Soldering is an art. Takes practice, knowledge and control.
@playswithblades
@playswithblades 3 жыл бұрын
Great video, I never even thought of searching for a project like this. So my 386 and 486's will be very happy in a few weeks. I can't wait to see if my 386DX-40 can do 8x 4MB modules
@MacMcCardle
@MacMcCardle 3 жыл бұрын
Dude, I'm glad you shared the mistakes because we ALL make them, but wow bless you for never having watched a video on how solder paste works! That being said your brutal technique worked okay to be honest! Probably not on anything with a finer pitch or smaller components though! You mostly made it hard by adding flux. That made the paste slide around and stopped your components from "sticking:"" Alternatively, since you have a hot hair station use a clip to hold the chip down, apply gel flux and hot air and touch your solder to each pin, or just use an iron if your hands are stable enough, these chips aren't that tiny. Solder paste only realy works when you have a stencil. You don't need flux - the solder is kinda sticky to keep your parts sliding off once they're stuck into it. It's supposed to be a bit like a glue in a way. You had a lot of trouble because the flux made everything slide around.
@moebius2k103
@moebius2k103 3 жыл бұрын
Making memories with your viewers, such a wholesome channel.
@justinv433
@justinv433 3 жыл бұрын
Love your videos bud. Easily one of my favorite channels.
@millenniumtree
@millenniumtree 3 жыл бұрын
Awesome!! My very first computer, I wanted 8MB, so I ordered 2 4MB SIMMs. When I tried to boot, it didn't recognize them, so then I learned that my 386 required banks of 4 SIMMs... So bought 2 more rather expensive SIMMs... DOS had no use for 16MB, and I didn't yet have a hard drive, so I created a 12MB RAM disk which I unzipped a couple of floppies into on every boot. Fond memories indeed!!
@luther99flame
@luther99flame 3 жыл бұрын
Great video again, every day is a learning day and hopefully your video will help others learn. Solder paste is best left for when you have a stencil to restrict the amount of paste on the pad. Too much paste will cause solder balls to skate around on the board causing bridges some visible on the legs but others not so much behind them underneath the chips. If you have a stencil and some good quality paste designed for the job at hand then it can out perform soldering chips by soldering iron. The other thing to consider is the thermal shock to the chips, some are super sensitive to the temperature changes and others wont last if kept at too high for too long. If I had to fit these chips and didn't have a screen printer, pick n place machine, & reflow oven, then I'd use a nice pointy iron tip with some thin diameter tin lead solder. As others have said, apply some flux to the leads and pads. Apply some solder to one pad in one corner. Solder the chip in place on the one pad and check for squareness and positioning. Once happy, do the other corner and double check positioning - because its easier to fix it now than later. If all looks good, solder up the other legs. I was always told I used too much flux but my joints were virtually the same as what came out the reflow oven. You can use the same method to solder other smd components - solder one pad, position the part on the pads and heat up that one pad. Check position and solder up the other end. Flux is important and cleaning that off when finished is more so. Hot Air Guns are really only used when removing parts from a board. Tip: clean off the board with some IPA, use a cotton bud to help move the fluid about and remove stubborn deposits. Check the ideal operating temperatures of the paste / solder wire (too hot and you'll burn off the additives too soon).
@siamsurf
@siamsurf 3 жыл бұрын
Soldering paste is applied with a stencil in the desired thickness and a scraper, so you get the exact amount you need on each contact (only). That way you only apply soldering mask ones, then place everything, and run over it with the heat gun once. Just about every custom PCB supplier also offers to make stencils.
@EngineeringVignettes
@EngineeringVignettes 3 жыл бұрын
"J" lead style SMT chips can be tough to solder as the pins go under the package. Strip-soldering them might work if the PCB is pre-tinned with solder then cleaned back off, to get minimal solder on the pads as a wick. Use lots of flux on the PCB and then tack 2 pins of the IC with the iron, then strip-solder the rest. The hope is that the small amount of solder left on the pad is enough to wick (pull more) new solder in and not having a lot on the pads should stop pad-to-pad shorting from solder "squishing out" from the J-lead & package being pressed to the PCB pads. For hot air, I think your only good choice would be to try and get a stencil for the (JEDEC I believe) J-lead package style. A toaster oven converted to a reflow oven would be the better way to solder in this way, but you could get away with the hand tool and a hot plate. Using a DIP style hot air head would help to get both sides heated up at the same time and prevent over heating the IC and PCB. I agree 63/37 solder is the best way to go. Using lead-free would be a nightmare. Looks like an interesting project :D Cheers,
@evensgrey
@evensgrey 3 жыл бұрын
I have recently been informed that there's now really good lead-free (and silver-free) solder available at reasonable prices because the patent finally expired. It's apparently very, very similar in properties to the 63/37 solder we've all liked for a long time. Given that lead mining is a relatively dangerous job as mining goes (it's hard to not get contaminated with a metal you're mining) I think reducing consumption where practicable is a good idea. (If only there was a really good UV stable yellow pigment that didn't cost a fortune and wasn't at least as toxic as lead chromate so we could stop painting it on our roads.)
@GreenAppelPie
@GreenAppelPie 3 жыл бұрын
After soldering with an iron just add flux and reflow with the iron, Ive been doing this for years, solder paste goes bad fast once opened.
@CharGorilla
@CharGorilla 3 жыл бұрын
I've had only a small amount of exposure to J Lead SMT chips, but my hot-air technique for re-work / prototyping using these packages is to heavily tin the pads (such that there's a little convex bump on each), add a thin coating of liquid flux (not Louis Rossmann's version of a "thin coating", but enough to cover the tinned pads without meeting in the center), then position the IC as accurately as you can, and lightly hold the IC down using some tweezers or or a screwdriver or basically anything heat resistant, not so much that you're pushing it into the PCB, but enough to resist the hot air's tendency to blow the IC off of the board. All things going well, the solder should re-flow nicely under the pads and you'll feel when the surface tension of the solder has pulled it nicely into alignment. I find it best to move the hot air gun around, to apply heat evenly to the pins of the component, remembering that the pins are what you want to heat up, not the IC itself. I'm sure these components aren't as sensitive as modern stuff, and unlikely to coexist with them on the same board but if you're working in the vicinity of other (more delicate) components, it's good practice to put some kapton tape over other components close by or try and shield them from heat as much as possible. After soldering using a lot of flux, it's always a good idea to give the board a cleaning, if you have an ultrasonic, that's great, if not some IPA (not the beer) should be fine. Then once it's all working, go have yourself a nice local IPA (the beer this time).
@patrickbetts5504
@patrickbetts5504 3 жыл бұрын
Making your own RAM is pretty darn cool. That's a very useful project for restoring old computers!
@chriswininger3022
@chriswininger3022 3 жыл бұрын
Cool stuff, I'm glad to see someone has figured this out.
@DeathMetalDerf
@DeathMetalDerf 3 жыл бұрын
You're so hard on yourself! Surface-mount stuff is REALLY difficult, so I give you tons of credit for even trying!
@Turnbull50
@Turnbull50 3 жыл бұрын
Well done an amazing video and great work on your part
@tellyjoossens4186
@tellyjoossens4186 3 жыл бұрын
Nice that you found out this oldschool technique. In the late '90 I worked for a wholesale computer parts supplier and to make more profit and sell for lower prices than the competition we bought separate chips and empty ram boards from China and just make 30-pin simm memory modules ourself. We also had a dedicated simm memory tester for quality control.
@marcgforc3
@marcgforc3 3 жыл бұрын
hey ! i'm sure you're now ready to solder smd components with solder paste ! i'ts nice to see that some of us are working fine to keep going with older macs
@BrunoDPO
@BrunoDPO 3 жыл бұрын
Adrian, as usual it was a nice video! Keep it going man! As for the soldering, you could try this technique: First, apply some solder paste. Not much, and use an old credit card to help spreading it evenly. Then, you use the heat air to make the solder stick to the pads (here you will see how nice it magically goes to the right place). And finally you place the chip as you did on the first ones, holding with the tweezers, but not pressing too much against the chip. Hope that it works better for you! Much love from Brazil!
@scharkalvin
@scharkalvin 3 жыл бұрын
Don't worry about refrigeration of the solder paste. It's fine because you hadn't opened it yet. Once you have, you only need to keep it cool for long term storage. I've also had bad luck trying to hot air solder SMT using solder paste applied with a squeeze tube. I've had somewhat better luck using a stencil to apply the paste, at least for .85 mm spaced parts, not so much with 0.5mm spaced ones. Setting the chip down correctly, and removing solder bridges has been the major problem. I've actually done better with a VERY fine tipped soldering iron and VERY thin flux cored solder wire. QFTP and SOIC chips are easier than QFN! I have a binocular microscope to inspect my work. I think it's a 20x power (eyepieces are marked 10x, objective is marked 2x). It was a lucky find in the dumpster where I worked. Just had to make a home brew stand for it.
@BlackEpyon
@BlackEpyon 3 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty competent at through-hole, but surface mount soldering is pretty new to me too. You're in good company.
@falkodachsel570
@falkodachsel570 3 жыл бұрын
I do this kind of work professionally and there are two ways in soldering J-Style SMD-Chips to P.C.B. that I prefer. The first is to use a tiny amount of Epoxyglue to fix the Chips in position on the clean (No flux etc.) Board and solder them with special SMD-solderingwire (0,3 mm Diameter) using a microscope. The second way is to plot a solderingmask and use it to portion the solderingpaste on the pads. After removing the mask I fix the Parts with ceramicglue (extremly fast) and use hot Air with 320 Degree Celsius. What you do is great, cause I had to search a long time to get hand on such SIMs . Good work, and greetings from germany!
@PatrickDunn13078
@PatrickDunn13078 3 жыл бұрын
Yes you are correct video mem was shared. The LC III I used back in the 90’s was a pig in mud until I threw more rake at it. Good job
@Salfke
@Salfke 3 жыл бұрын
Nice interesting video. I like it that you don't stop the camera on the learning curve with smd. I only use dip components because i'm also afraid to mess up starting up smd soldering. After seeing this maybe i'll start with it
@terosaarela4555
@terosaarela4555 3 жыл бұрын
That is a nice upgrade for the Classic II! And I truly feel your pain with SMT. I have a half-finished EasyFlash 3 cartridge downstairs waiting for the inspiration to continue soldering the SMT resistors and caps that I can barely see.
@MikeStavola
@MikeStavola 3 жыл бұрын
When I first started with surface mount soldering, I used solder paste in similar applications to this. it helped me get a lot better at hand rework. Keep it up and you might be doing rework at a professional level in a short time. That said, I definitely agree with the other people saying to use an iron for this application. The solder wicks around the legs really easily using an iron and a bit of flux, and doesn't warp the small/thin PCB.
@tekvax01
@tekvax01 3 жыл бұрын
I knew as soon as you said solder paste and months ago, I said right out loud, "Not refrigerated, this is not gonna work..." the super tiny soldering tip is a must! You should also purchase the needle VOM meter leads too... they are a must as well...
@RetroHQ
@RetroHQ 3 жыл бұрын
Very cool! When I first started doing smt work I actually made full stencils for the pcb’s I was using from overhead projector acetate and a cnc hobby cutting machine to make the holes and then applying the thin layer of paste using a plastic card to spread it over the stencil. It works pretty well, but I found you need pretty good accuracy and steady hands to place the chips. I don’t have steady hands. 😆 With all smt work these days, as it’s just prototype stuff, I always go the ‘lots of tacky flux and flood solder’ route. I’ve not tried j-lead or qfn, but you should be able to do it ok with flooding I think, but probably more awkward than soic or qfp. I usually put some tacky flux down on the pads, place the chip, then just flood with solder and tidy up with wick where needed. So much is just practice, and learning to keep your cool. 😆 Even under good conditions it’s a frustrating thing to do, but compound it with essential tremor and the patience of a saint can be required at times. I mostly use hot air just for removal these days, but everyone has their preferences and abilities. Great videos, keep on doing what you do. 😄
@Mosfet510
@Mosfet510 3 жыл бұрын
Great way to get ram into the classics if you can't find any. For soldering the ic's, there is no sarcasm behind this, there are some really good videos, PACE is one of them and remember flux* is your friend (the no clean one). Great video.
@dcfuksurmom
@dcfuksurmom 3 жыл бұрын
Video: is almost 24 mins long. Adrian: NIBBLE SIZED
@mikehensley78
@mikehensley78 3 жыл бұрын
DUDE! thats F'n awesome you made your own RAM!
@siberx4
@siberx4 3 жыл бұрын
Some tips from my own experience that I haven't seen mentioned: -If your solder paste is dried out (it does contain flux by the way, that's what the solder balls are suspended in to make the "paste"), simply squirt some of it into a small disposable container (like a plastic shot glass, bottle lid or similar small well) and then add in a bit of paste flux and stir. This will thin the paste back out and make it apply much more evenly. When doing small hand work like this without a stencil (using a stencil is much easier, so get one if you have the chance when ordering a design yourself) I will often use a small slotted jeweler's screwdriver to transfer my "renewed" paste to the pads. You don't need to be perfect, it's more important to just have the paste in the right ballpark and to not have too much on the board. As you found, the hot air will "magically" wick the solder where it needs to go if everything works right -You want to get away with the lowest hot air temperature that still melts the solder in a reasonable timeframe (5-30 seconds, not minutes). This will minimize the chance that you damage the chips or board with excessive heat, like the warping you got. What I find really helps is pre-heating the board part of the way so that the hot air doesn't need to be cranked up as much to get the solder to melt. There's proper heating plates for this, but you'll get a lot of benefit by using cheap alternatives you might already have. Some suggestions are a thrift store cooking skillet/hotplate turned as low as it will go (don't use it for food afterward!), a 3D printer heated bed (this is what I use), or one of those heated silicone mats off amazon for opening up phones/tablets. Basically, anything flat that can get the board to a controlled 100c-150c will make a big difference and won't harm the board or components, making the hot air step much quicker and less likely to cause damage -Solder paste comes in three typical "Types" usually labeled T3, T4 or T5. This refers to the size of the tiny solder balls in the paste, with the higher numbers using finer balls. Since the smaller balls have more surface area and flow better, they're just straight-up easier to work with for hobbyists and the price difference is negligible at this scale. The MG Chemicals stuff you have looks like T3 (the largest and hardest to work with), so if you do end up ordering another syringe of paste at some point, make sure to get the T5 stuff. Sometimes it's not a major difference depending on the kind of work, but I'll take every advantage I can get when doing this kind of tricky hand rework! Other than the above tips, it's mostly about practice and technique. The exact airflow, temperature, and hot air positioning and angle all influence how the paste and chips will behave, so experiment to find a method that works for you. In general notes, I usually do wide circles a few inches above the PCB/chips to get the board "close" to melting temperature, then bring the tip in really close to quickly melt the solder and ensure the chips and board stay in the "danger zone" temperatures for as little time as possible. Thanks for all the great content you make, and especially thanks for going deep into the details of your full process and troubleshooting, including the failures and challenges! It's very helpful to others, especially those starting out in electronics, to see that the path is often far more convoluted and challenging than some perfectly produced guides might indicate! Always keep pushing and learning new skills, it will always pay dividends down the road.
@smunaut
@smunaut 3 жыл бұрын
9:45 "The paste doesn't have any flux" ... huh solder paste is literally tiny solder balls in suspension in a gel flux.
@THEtechknight
@THEtechknight 3 жыл бұрын
yea, its so thick and not really wanting to flow because it was not refrigerated. we use this stuff at work on our stencil printer. solder paste absolutely positively without a doubt needs refrigerated or the flux gets dry and bad. then it all turns to crap from there. Everytime I order it, I have to do overnight shipping from Digikey or mouser with dry ice.
@bwack
@bwack 3 жыл бұрын
@@THEtechknight There is also the no fridge pastes. Like the chip quik TS391LT. I was happy to find this out after having it on the shelf for a year before using it :D
@THEtechknight
@THEtechknight 3 жыл бұрын
@@bwack Yea I dont know anything about those.
@johnpossum556
@johnpossum556 3 жыл бұрын
i've got old old old solder paste that I am sure existed way before any SMD existed.
@mikkels5724
@mikkels5724 3 жыл бұрын
@@bwack The non-fridge paste doesn't work nearly as well in my experience though...
@kneehighspy
@kneehighspy 3 жыл бұрын
great vid adrian. i was nervous when i first started smd soldering. but over the last year i can handle 144 pin fpga’s easily now. i dread any through hole soldering now.
@iamdkk
@iamdkk 3 жыл бұрын
Best way is with a small amount of solder paste on the pads only and then gently put the SIMMs on a flat electric frypan / skillet. I've done a ton of SOJ+SIMMs this way!
@Walczyk
@Walczyk 3 жыл бұрын
really loving this video! its exactly the motivation and knowledge i need to try a heat station and smd myself; I think you could do a perfect job with the paste; trying to remove them without a ton of flux will let it get overheated more often
@cowasakiElectronics
@cowasakiElectronics 3 жыл бұрын
Adrian, everyone has to start somewhere with new techniques. You can make the paste more liquid by warning it. I would do the bypass caps first too. A vacuum pickup can also help. You can get a really cheap air bulb one for about $1-2 so worth trying. Practice with the bent one a few times or practice with an old PC board. Good luck. Personally, even though I have experience doing SMD rework I would probably have slip soldered the legs with a soldering iron as they are visible along each side. get a large rounded chisel tip with a dip in the flat face which holds a bubble of solder. Good luck, I really enjoy your channel.
@PeachIceCreamy
@PeachIceCreamy 3 жыл бұрын
Okay, this is fucking sick. Imagine soldering something together yourself and putting it into a motherboard and having it work!
@TooLazyToFail
@TooLazyToFail 3 жыл бұрын
I always appreciate these videos. You are always so positive and it's a welcome break from doomscrolling. You're doing great! Surface mount is a very different kind of skill. Once the pandemic is over I can highly recommend Jessa at iPad Rehab for microsoldering training. They have a one-week course that was incredibly instructive for me. It's centered around phone repair but if you can do microsoldering on phones the type of work you're doing here will be child's play.
@TomStorey96
@TomStorey96 3 жыл бұрын
To help with the warping, you might spend a little time blowing hot air over the whole PCB to warm it through before going in hard to solder. Also, solder stencils all the way, will really help to ensure just the right amount of solder is applied. 🙂
@radio655
@radio655 3 жыл бұрын
Oh my, one can sense the frustration! These chips are massive, they should be very easy to solder by hand. Just use thinner solder (0.5mm), tack solder one pin, then the opposite one, then put some flux and solder the rest. Great to see that the modules worked.
@electronraygun6346
@electronraygun6346 3 жыл бұрын
I learned SMD soldering via a similar method to yours! First try was a disaster, I discovered that with solder paste, a little goes a long way! I used a toothpick to smear a film of solder paste on to a flux treated PCB I used two techniques, for some things like ICs I would heat up the solder first until it was evenly distributed over the pads, then I used tweezers to place the IC onto the tinned pads and used a little more flux carefully heated the IC until, like you discovered, the chip dragged itself into place. Other times I would skip meting the solder paste and applied the component direct to the pasted pads fluxing before hand. Experimenting with the airflow can help, using a lower speed can help you get the nozzle a bit closer without knocking the component off line and prevents random pieces of solder getting splattered around the PCB. I think it's just a case of feeling out what works and from then on just refining your technique. Now I find SMD soldering so easy I wonder why I didn't learn sooner!
@hi_tech_reptiles
@hi_tech_reptiles 3 жыл бұрын
This was awesome! Don't be so hard on yourself, how else are you gonna learn without screwing up lol. I do, we all do. In many, many ways haha
@Simon-ui6db
@Simon-ui6db 3 жыл бұрын
Louis Rossman will be screaming at the screen. "Heat the board" Fair play at having a go, many of us would be like erm nope.
@retroguardian4802
@retroguardian4802 Жыл бұрын
Ive been watching to many of these videos.. When I heard you were wanting 10mb of ram I instantly thought what on earth could you even do with so much memory?!
@Dukefazon
@Dukefazon 3 жыл бұрын
Soldering like these always amaze me when the solder just jumps into position. I tried my hands in SMD soldering a couple of days ago, I bought little PCB christmas trees and I have to assemble them by hand, 3x4 SMD LEDs, 4 SMD resistors and a triode. These components are so tiny, I had a hard time with it and I tried regular soldering iron. The good part was that the pads were already tinned but I had hard luck assembling my first attempt (bought 6 of them). I should try the heat gun for my next attempt.
@Wallygjs
@Wallygjs 3 жыл бұрын
Nice work, it always amazes me how members of the retro community figure out how to get round shortages of items. I suspect at some time in the future someone will come up with a replacement for the classic mac screens using a TFT screen as a replacement so that we can get round the shortage and failing nature of old CRT tubes, also means we can get rid of the dangerous voltages as well.
@ZsomborZsombibi
@ZsomborZsombibi 3 жыл бұрын
Now you have memories from 2020 :) Soldering tip: place the chip w/o soldered pins, then solder one pin by hand. It's fixed now and the remaining pins can be soldered smoothly.
@adamsfusion
@adamsfusion 3 жыл бұрын
Some tips for the road: - Use a thin film of solder paste next time, spread it with a silicone pick or an old credit card across the leg pads. It doesn't have to cover the entire strip of each pad, just be on it. The heat will help it flow into place. - You don't need a stencil, but it does help. In a pinch, you can use something like a Cricut to cut some card for a one-time-use stencil. - When using hot air, it's helpful to heat your boards from underneath. This prevents the bowing of the boards from thermal expansion. There are professional solutions for this, but you can also get away with hot plates set on their lowest setting to help lower the amount of time you have to focus on a chip. If you can reliably have your hot plate sit at around 400F/200C, it can flow the entire board for you. If your hot plate has hot/cold zones pretty bad, a thin layer of sand at the bottom will even that out to a gentle, consistent heat. - When going at a chip, try to use a more broad tip for your hot air gun. Paste works best when the entire footprint of the package flows at the same time. That way, it can destress and flow easier and build more consistent tensions around the legs. This is something I had to get wrong a few times before I got the hang of.
@Nukle0n
@Nukle0n 3 жыл бұрын
When something like that says to keep refrigerated, that usually means after opening and breaking the seal.
@adamsfusion
@adamsfusion 3 жыл бұрын
^ this. The reason it needs to be refrigerated is because the gel flux will dry into a powder. It's still usable in that form, but it'll take a lot more effort to get it out of the syringe tip.
@KK4CNM
@KK4CNM 3 жыл бұрын
When you order your PCBs you can order an SMT stencil that helps to get the paste only on the pads.
@UpLateGeek
@UpLateGeek 3 жыл бұрын
Not bad for a first try soldering SMD. Those SOJ chips are a little tricky if you've never done it before, but it looks like you're picking it up pretty quickly. And you've got plenty more to practice on! 😁 Hopefully you've got enough there to upgrade a few machines. But if not, the gerbers are available so you can always order more!
@awilliams1701
@awilliams1701 3 жыл бұрын
If you want to see an expert at SMD soldering, I recommend tronix fix. That guy is amazing! He doesn't reball APUs, but other than that he fixes modern gaming consoles. Another good one is HDD Recovery Services. He recovers dead hard drives (which sometimes requires chip swaps) as well as USB drives, SD cards, etc... He uses thermal paste all the time. HDD services always pokes the chip to verify that it will slide back into place to know it's correct. Oh and paste is not required. I see them take a big solder blob and just drag it down the line to pre-tin the contacts. Once you put the component on you can drag the soldering iron across the pins. It doesn't take much solder. Oh and both channels use a microscope.
@KomradeMikhail
@KomradeMikhail 3 жыл бұрын
Does it feel slightly faster to you because the upgrade uses lower latency chips than those soldered on the mobo ? I believe they came in 50, 60, 70, and 80ns varieties; with 60 and 70 being the most common ? Would using some 50ns possibly squeak out a little more responsiveness ? Would also replacing the mobo chips with 50ns instead also affect it a touch ? Do you feel the need to have the fastest Classic Mac on the block ?
@williammanganaro9070
@williammanganaro9070 3 жыл бұрын
at 1:20 , am I the only one that saw something fly from Adrian's hand? Hahaha. Nice video man !!!
@MeDicen_Rocha
@MeDicen_Rocha 3 жыл бұрын
I don't think that was his hand lol
@morgan0
@morgan0 3 жыл бұрын
i did some smd soldering a couple weeks ago, and since i don’t have a hot air station, i used the soldering iron to heat the paste and it actually worked really well. i can’t check until tomorrow but i think the soldering paste i got has flux, so that might have a little to do with it, but after the first few like that it was super quick, unlike the one i tried to do with regular (not thin) solder wire which took ages.
@Arti9m
@Arti9m 3 жыл бұрын
I recently bought a hot-air station. Like you said, it takes time and practice to get good at surface-mount soldering. To get some practice, I decided to remove and re-attach every component on a cheap DDR2 memory stick that I don't really need :) Also bent boards can be straightened if they are bent to their original state, fixed somehow in this state and heated up to less-then-solder-melting temperature for some time. Some folks even do this to fix bent PC motherboards.
@SenileOtaku
@SenileOtaku 3 жыл бұрын
And before I knew just what the video was going to be about, when you were talking about the rare high-capacity 30-pin memory, my immediate thought was "gee, sounds like some project some hobbyist group could come up with; some way of making substitute memory". And so what was the video about? Exactly that. But as you were soldering, I could just hear a Louis Rossmann commentary about how to solder going on in the back of my mind.
@m1geo
@m1geo 2 жыл бұрын
Very experienced soldering iron/hot air wielder here: If you don't have a stencil like in your case, tin the pins with your iron so they each have a tiny mound of solder on them. This is enough solder. Then just cover the IC legs in flux (your flux pen is fine) and add plenty of flux to the board and it'll work. You're 95% of the way there. More flux and pre-tin the pads and you'll get it next time you try! This saves you having to worry about having too much solder.
@m1geo
@m1geo 2 жыл бұрын
Haha! That's exactly what you end up doing! :D I always say to friends and colleagues: "it only has to work, it doesn't know how ugly it looks!"
@redhawk668
@redhawk668 3 жыл бұрын
I mostly do this stuff with a soldering iron with a fine tip. I had to learn this too, screwed up a lot of PCB’s teaching myself how to solder SMD stuff.
@TheEPROM9
@TheEPROM9 3 жыл бұрын
I do the odd bit of SMT soldering, most of the time its mounting though hole parts where SMT is supose to go. It is a little tricky & fiddely, but you do get the hang of it.
@drruncmd
@drruncmd 3 жыл бұрын
I must say well done Adrian!!!! I too do not go near SMD soldering for the same reason as you. It requires a certain skill to pull it off. Well done, great job!!!
@BertGrink
@BertGrink 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah I'm a bit apprehensive about SMD too for the same reason, although i must admit that the videos I've watched make it look relatively uncomplicated.
@drruncmd
@drruncmd 3 жыл бұрын
@@BertGrink it is much more difficult than it looks trust me. I lack the tools also so I dont bother. Through hole soldering is best. But would be worth attempting SMD work I suppose.
@drruncmd
@drruncmd 3 жыл бұрын
@Damion Manuel ok I will check that channel out. Maybe I will give it a go, thanks.
@lelandclayton5462
@lelandclayton5462 3 жыл бұрын
Way back in the day a Friend of my Mother's worked for a PC Repair shop. The Repair shop's owner cleaned out the back room and since I worked on Computers the guy gave me 6 boxes loaded with old parts. In one of the boxes there was a odd looking RAM board. It had two 30pin edge connectors with short ribbon cables around 5 inches going to a bigger board that was populated with a 72pin simm socket. The board had a couple of jumpers and misc logic on it. I never got a chance to try it but it looked like it made a 30pin simm based system use 72pin and used two 30pin sim slots. I have no idea what company produced, looked kinda home made since I remember seeing a bunch of flux residue on it.
@leesmithsworkshop
@leesmithsworkshop 3 жыл бұрын
With solder paste it needs two stages of heat. one is just below the melting point to get the flux flowing and then increase to reflow the solder. Solder paste will have a reflow pattern data sheet to show the temps and time needed. When I do this with hot air I have a nice thick stone tile with a polished top so I don't damage my desk or silicone matt. I also never liked the paste from a syringe and had the same issues you did and would use something else to apply the paste. A stencil is so much quicker and saves a lot of mess, but for the number you have it's expensive. Soldering with the iron and plenty of good amtec bga flux is a lot easier for a small number of chips like this.
@catriona_drummond
@catriona_drummond 3 жыл бұрын
Seeing that you struggle with certain soldering jobs does give me hope.
@TheEmbeddedHobbyist
@TheEmbeddedHobbyist 3 жыл бұрын
Use a fine tip soldering iron, 1: place a blob of solder on one pin. 2: place component on pads and aline it with pads, 3: solder first pin, 4: solder a pin on the other side of component, 5: solder the rest one at a time, clean. Job done. Also get yourself an ESD mat and strap to give the chips a chance.
@eDoc2020
@eDoc2020 3 жыл бұрын
I've never tried soldering J-lead packages like these RAMs but I'd imagine it would be quite hard to reach under the bend and get the iron where it's needed.
@soggybaguette8457
@soggybaguette8457 3 жыл бұрын
Finally! I have found another Mac Classic II owner!
@spokehedz
@spokehedz 3 жыл бұрын
I know you are getting a lot of helpful comments (some mean) but I just want to say that your absolute first time using hot air and solder paste was honestly not all that bad. I've seen far, far worse. It was absolutely not a "Horrible job, as usual." as you said. The whole point of soldering is to make electrical connection. That's it. Everything else that anyone says is just help to try and get the most consistent soldering results. Notice I did not say "the best" just consistent. And the only way to get there is to just practice over and over again. That is all. You did MUCH BETTER than the average first-user-starting-out-with-fine-pitch-soldering. I used to run a little side business where people would send me soldering jobs they tried to do on their own, and failed. And boy let me tell you some of them were downright awful. Yours would have been a rare treat to try and 'fix'. But honestly that PCB absolutely does not need to be soldered with paste. You could do that entire board in a couple of minutes with just your TS100 (Mine is finally dying after years of steady use! I wish I had a TS80 to replace it with) because of how the solder flows. You just tap the iron tip to the leg and it wicks right in. I've done literally hundreds of them that way. Yes. That means there is no flux in the solder on the iron. We have plenty on the board gel or otherwise.
@physnoct
@physnoct 3 жыл бұрын
A dedicated toaster oven can be used for surface mount. Instead of having a temperature controlled PID, I use a simple trick: I place a small length of fine solder wire on one of the PCBs. When it melts you wait a few seconds and it's done.
@januszkszczotek8587
@januszkszczotek8587 3 жыл бұрын
I soldered SMD with hot air only once in a small workshop. If I remember correctly you place a chip on the PCB then put some paste at the pads/pins (e.g. in a small line). If you heat this up the flux in the paste should pull the chip and the solder to the pads automatically. If it doesn't work add more flux and reheat. In hard cases you can also use a hot soldering iron and draw it along the pins.
@tilodettling7672
@tilodettling7672 3 жыл бұрын
Ordering and using a stencil for applying the solderpaste makes the job much easier. ;) but a nice idea and solution. Nice channel ... Go on.
@mcu_nerd2163
@mcu_nerd2163 3 жыл бұрын
I would recommend taping over the edge connector pins to eliminate the risk of getting any stray solder on them.
@MBDB666
@MBDB666 3 жыл бұрын
Every time you get ready to power something up and say, "Ok, here we go." I add my own sound effects and say, "BOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!" 😆 Does anyone else watching these videos do that, or is it just me? 🤔
@Thunk00
@Thunk00 9 ай бұрын
Coolest channel video intro on KZfaq.
@FordGT40MkIV
@FordGT40MkIV 3 жыл бұрын
Adrian, I would suggest watching some of Louis Rossmann's MacBook repair videos for tips on SMT soldering with hot air - it's amazing to see how 'sloppy' you can be when applying the solder and how well it comes out. You will notice he uses a lot of flux (available from his store) to heat up the whole component, not just one side. I think you will learn a lot from his videos - I know I did, even after 40 years as an EE.
@spagamoto
@spagamoto 3 жыл бұрын
Hey nothing wrong with learning a new skill! Personally for "larger" low-volume SMD stuff like this I don't bother with hot air. I start with clean fluxed pads, tack in the chip on opposite corners, and solder each pin one by one with a fine tip and a roll of fine solder. Slow but I find it much more forgiving. Cheers!
@bradleystach6275
@bradleystach6275 3 жыл бұрын
I’m a total noob as well and had always been scared of smd. Finally got brave and bought a hot air station. Now I actually prefer smd instead of through hole. I’m 50, with bad eyes, and shaky hands, if I can do it, I know you can. I have never used a stencil, and it would probably make the job easier, but I am living proof you don’t need them. The trick is getting the right amount of paste. It’s ok to smear the paste on if you use a consistent amount across al the pads. Be a little conservative with the amount you use, and you don’t need to pre-flux, there is already flux in the paste. Get the chip close to aligned but it does not have to be perfect, surface tension of the solder will pull the chip into place. If you do get bridges, take your soldering iron with the tip cleaned of solder and just touch the pins, the excess solder should flow onto the tip. If you have a stubborn bridge, hit it with the solder wick. One last thing, be mindful of how much air you are using, the air can blow small parts out of place. Thanks for another great video Adrian.
@6581punk
@6581punk 3 жыл бұрын
I would only use solder paste if I had a silk screen and was just using hot air to solder it. You're better off tacking the chip in place at either corner, apply flux and then tin your iron, touch each pad and the solder will travel off the tip onto the pins. Keep doing that until there's enough solder on the pins. Rework with heat if you want it to look nice and even. I've done chips smaller than my fingernail of my little finger that way with no problems.
@robintst
@robintst 3 жыл бұрын
Hey, they worked though, can't argue with results, hehe. I'm impressed by anyone who can solder intricate little components like that, I don't have a steady enough hand for it.
@wernerviehhauser94
@wernerviehhauser94 3 жыл бұрын
That brings back memories.... back in the times when you paid 100 bucks per megabyte I made PCBs and soldered ram chips into them to get 4 additional 1MB modules for my 386... and then I had to replace one ceramic cap with a SMD version on every board because it collided with the simm socket....
@RomDump
@RomDump 3 жыл бұрын
I think the technique you used was out of order. You should have 1) Apply flux to the pad 2) Place the Chip 3) use a small bead of Solder paste on the outside between the legs of the chip and the PCB 4) apply hot air then use a solder wick with flux to remove any soldering bridges. It would have been easier for you if you has a stencil as mentioned before in the comments.
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