Nicholas Katzenbach on John Lewis, George Wallace and the 2008 Election
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The man who confronted Gov. George Wallace at the doors of the University of Alabama reacts to Congressman John Lewis’ comments and prejudice at McCain-Palin rallies.
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Nicholas Katzenbach:
Nicholas Katzenbach taught Law at Yale University and the Universityof Chicago, and served in the Kennedy and Johnson administrationsbefore becoming senior vice president and general counsel for IBM. He was witness and participant to some of the most challenging events inUnited States history, including the Freedom Riders, the desegregationof the Universities of Mississippi and Alabama, the fear of communistinfiltration during the Cold War, the Bay of Pigs fiasco, theassassination of JFK, and the Vietnam War. His memoir is entitled"Some of it Was Fun: Working with RFK and LBJ."
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TRANSCRIPT:
Question: Do you agree with Congressman John Lewis’ comments?
Nicholas Katzenbach: I more or less agree with John Lewis, although I think he may have overstated the case. But it is very difficult to believe that in some of the crowds that have been attracted by McCain and by Sarah Palin, that there are [not] a lot of prejudiced people in that crowd, and that that prejudice, I don’t think himself, I’m not trying to say he’s prejudiced. Whether he’s done all that he could to stop that, I don't know. Sarah Palin, as far as I’m aware, has done nothing.
Question: What do remember about confronting Wallace at the University of Alabama?
Nicholas Katzenbach: Well, we’ve gone down there, I went down with one or two people with me, and with General Abrams, who had two officers with him, and we didn’t know what Governor Wallace was going to do except we thought he was going to stand in the door. We doubted very much he was going to give in. Although we know he did not want violence, the question was whether he could prevent it. And, actually, I didn’t get much sleep the night before. There was a reporter who had a nervous breakdown. We had to get him to a hospital, and thing of that kind. And I went out in the morning and picked up Vivian Malone and James Hood, John [Dor] and I went out and picked the two of them up in Birmingham, drove them back to Tuscaloosa. On the way back, Bobby [called me] in a border patrol car with radio connections with Washington and Bobby called and he said, “What are you going to say to Governor Wallace?” and I said, “I don’t really know.” And he said, “Well, the President wants you to make him look foolish.” I said, “Fine. Got any ideas as to how to do that?” He said, “Oh, don’t worry, Nick. You’ll do fine.” And so we went on to the university. I had done a couple of things that I was pleased with, one was that I said I would go confront Governor Wallace without the two black students. I didn’t know, saw no reason why they should be insulted by the governor. And one of the things that I find moving even today was that the US Attorney in Birmingham and the US Marshal in Birmingham, both political appointees, in the Deep South, insisted on going with me, that it was part of their job to. And that was a very courageous thing in Alabama of that time. And it was hot as Hades. And so we walked up to door that they designated, and I got in the first words, I think, and the governor wanted to shut me up and [we got] back and forth a little bit, and I haven’t, to this day… I’ve seen it on television, but I can’t remember what I said, except I remember a couple of things that I liked. One was I annoyed the governor when I said, “I don't know what the purpose of this big show is. It’s just two students, qualified students, trying to get into the university in which they’re entitled to be admitted, and I don’t see any reason for this show,” and he didn’t like that. And so, they tried to put mikes on me that [the media did] and I wouldn’t have them, but there was no worry about that. He had a mike in every pocket of his suit and trousers and jacket and around his neck and every other place, so there wasn’t much danger of my not being… No.
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