And most drawn out too. Lol 😆

He’s unfortunately right lol

@@Pedaeus no it is not just play edh then you can proxy

@@akorthouwer Not all of your deck. Where i play you can proxy for a lil bit, but if you're proxying expensive cards and playing with them every week..you either buy it or take it out because it's unfair.

The higher your credit limit, the higher your win-loss ratio

@@RagingRevine yeah it is also unfair if you buy these cards imo.

And the four-of-each-rule does barely even contain them, imagine any deck running 4 P9 cards...it would still degenerate each game to a coin toss...

yea we knew this before girls even played the game but yes.

I'm pretty sure lightning bolt would have done the same thing just as quickly. The original game was just never imagined that people would buy so many cards to have that many copies

@@treznor6992 cringe comment detected

Yes, we did. Richard didn't like being utterly destroyed without getting a turn, when he showed up to Wargames West in Albuquerque.

imagine losing for it hahaha

Buts not vanilla, it has Trample

@@chesstitan70 Hill Giant has Trample?

@@chesstitan70 hill giant doesn't have trample

Should just use Hypnotic Spectre...so if anything goes wrong they wont have any cards..

We sure showed him!

And on that day Gacha was born

HA! Bet hes feeling stupid now, after getting millions of players and making millions of dollars, the idiot :3

@@zokora3656 gacha was already a thing in japan

imagine losing a black lotus to the ante rule back then

A gemstone caverns strategy could probably win at instant speed though. So I'm pretty sure there are even better decks. Format is stupid regardless.

@@alwaysplaythegame The format stopped with the 4-of rule, which happened after the release of Arabian Nights, but before Antiquities. The point here is that this was a legal deck from the release of Alpha until January 1994.

Wheel of fortune draws 7 and mills 7 at the same time, gotta add some in the mix. If you can sprinkle in a modern card, add Second sunrises, which each revive all lotuses.

@@watcher8582 contract from below is pretty much a better version of wheel of fortune

Imagine playing the same you mentioned but with 60 cards to get an edge in the mirror against the ancestral mill mirror. Just an extra 400 k

U mean credit card

He just needed paper instead of scissor.

yeah i agree the reserve list is the 1 thing that really harms the game anymore. the dumb rule that they can not print cards on that list or make cards similar is stupid.

@@Duskrequim yep, only reason most places can't have legacy happening. and basically is THE reason vintage is never played anymore, sheesh

@@lambdaman256 Whats sad is The Academy explained why the idea of it affecting prices is a basic lie. Shivan Dragon was never put on reserve list. Its Alpha and Beta are around $6k each. But its been printed dozens of times and you can pick it up for less than $.25. The original cards will always be worth more but if they would provide plenty of supply of reprints, it would give players who dont care about collecting, the ability to play in all formats.

Yeah the reserved list is stupid. I want to play legacy but I can't justify spending $500 on a dual land. Or $5-6k on Tabernacle because I want to play lands.

@@Duskrequim exactly. Someone once told me there are people in wotc who own many of these cards, and the real reason the reserved list is not removed is because they want to sell out of it and profit. I really resent this and hope it is not true.

Isn't this one turn kill where they Channel Fireball got their name?

This combo is how channel fireball got their name.

It's beginning to sounds like this is how channel fireball go their name. Not sure though.

I played at the end timing of revised. This combo was largely talked about. The above comment is rather hilarious.

Replace Montain by black lotus to limit bad starting hand and it s good. :) Player used montain cause it s easier to have that BL. At this time, tournament was really fast with all 5mn game.

I am still holding onto my 2 moxes and lotus. Haven't played in 20 years and couldn't seem to bring myself to sell them. An accidental good move, bought them for 200$ each.

Yup. I picked up duels at a card show for 20 apiece but was getting so many he knocked 5 each off. Unfortunately i had my play decks stolen in 96 and with them all but a couple tropical islands and a badlands went with them. 😥 still VERY PAINFUL

I started playing during 3ed and had dozens of duel lands. You just got them in packs sometimes. Didn't buy any individually.

@@ClarkPotter yes unfortunately, wasn't introduced to the game until Fallen, Homelands, 4th ed etc. You know, when seemingly EVERYONE else also started. 😆 did have a buddy that started with Revised as well, so he was cool and traded a few Duels with me. But yeah just my luck, started then and stopped with Visions so missed my oppertunity at opening a Gaea's Cradle. :( but did thankfully get ONE back in the day not even knowing it would one day be valuable. Just love my Green cards and know lands are a good thing to have

I seriously could rip a massive chunk out of the mortgage if i had held on to them 😅

I got channel, fireball, lotus' in a tournament back on 94. You hate to lose but when it's epic and you still talked about it almost 30 years later...

Channel + Fireball is the iconic Turn 1 kill

It was iconic and seen often until Legends and then Mana drain became a card that allowed you to flip the script on them and do it back to them.

@@dall1786 Lotus, Ruby, Channel, Fireball is a turn 1 win. At the time there were no cards that you could play before your own first turn.

20 lotus, 20 ancestral, 20 wheel of fortune

I like the black vice strategy, since it does not need time walk, and thus is a true turn 1 kill. Basically you go through your deck with ancestrals and time twisters to find a few black vice, play them, then load your opponents hands with cards using any ancestrals you still have. You do not need much, each black vice already does naturally 3 damage when you pass the turn, plus 3 extra for each ancestral recal you put on your opponent. Mana is the same as here black lotus and blue moxen. Since it does not need time walk I think it would be more consistent. And essentially killing your oppont with ancestral recall is just such a stupidly fun strategy

It's 40 card decks in constructed at that point and while you want more Recalls than Lotuses, the chance to draw all ancestrals gets too high. I think 15 Lotus, 25 Recalls is the optimal build, with about 2% fail cases (all Recall, 1 Recall+ 6 Lotus with 3 more Lotus on top, 2 Recall with 6 more Lotus on top, 3 Recall, 9 Lotus on top, 4 Recall, 12 Lotus on top). 12 Recalls are enough to draw your deck, 13 to mill them out.

I came here to say the same thing: all you need is black lotuses and ancestral recalls for a guaranteed turn one win. These other "win conditions" they're using must be for funsies, just extra hoops to jump through which can possibly go wrong.

@@kel1taylor only weel u cant cast withmax sappire,,,i personal like timewister better,,but nomaly all can play max 4 copys off every card,,not to make it to boring...atleast thats what rules we had back in day...i still easy win round 1 if u started so it didnt matter much.

Pretty sure those are proxy’s

But the limit of four copies was totally in play by then. These vintage cards could actually be played in these numbers at one point.

Ah, but you see, both strategies lose to the Nourishing Shoal deck. So then how do you beat Nourishing Shoal? Memnite deck. Shoal beats Dross, Dross beats Memnite, Memnite beats Shoal. But then to make it even more interesting, you start seeing other decks pop up to try and beat the meta!

@@LordMajicus i didnt know about shoal and Memnite, i heard about the leyline of sanctity and the ripple burn spell strats. Cool to see the meta evolve lol

@@LordMajicus Actually, I think Memnite ends up winning against Dross by teching a non-zero number of Providence, which sets their life to 26, placing it out of Dross' kill range.

You can actually do this in modern today, but you have to be really lucky to get the right starting hand

I had a Goblin deck in Duels of The Planeswalkers (2012 I believe) that centered around "Krenko, Mob Boss". I used to toy around with the AI and see how many Goblins I could get on the field... 2k Goblins before I blue screened my friends computer lol Decided to make the deck irl after that, with a few alterations to improve it due to the PC game not having certain cards available. My friends hated playing with me, good times.

IKR? It all comes down to who wins the game of Rock, Paper, Scissors, unless you can somehow trick them into being on the draw game 1.

rofl

@@perjohanberthelsen9655 pauper zubera storm is a deck that everybody must witness at least once in his life

I rebuilt the deck that got Second Sunrise banned in Legacy. Power level not too high, you sacrifice stuff for mana and card draw, eggs and lands and baubles and stuff, then get it all back with Second Sunrise. The combo is not infinite and always has a chance of grinding to a halt, as you need to put stuff from your graveyard to the bottom of your library, then need a tutor or shuffle effect, and draw, and you need to keep hitting the tutors or combo pieces as your deck slowly gets smaller. Calculating the mana of different colors is so tedious, for this deck you use colored mana tokens to keep track of your pool. Playing the 4 Lions Eye Diamond correctly is also a challenge and prone to screwups, the deck plays LED but actually does not like the discard and cannot profit from it. Never played it against anyone, Second Sunrise got banned just as i finished building the deck, but i enjoyed goldfishing it. It is a bit of a challenge to play even alone. Win condition was a single Seal of Fire that you had to draw naturally, no tutor for that one, and stringing it together with 9 Second Sunrise resolves. 40 minutes of focus and keeping track of several different variables is normal for this combo turn. Also the judge cannot do anything, if games overrun the judge can say the game will end after X more turns, but there is no time walking, it is one very looooong main phase. So Second Sunrise got the ban hammer, as soon as this (not even very strong) deck appeared and started messing up tournament scedules. Shahrazad and Second Sunrise are the only two cards banned for being impractical.

All you need.....

Why not just a 13/13/13 split of lotus, channel, and fireball. Then an extra of one of them. Would eliminate a brick of drawing only mountains for mana. Or maybe something like 16 lotus and 12/12 of channel fireball would be better idk

no it is not, not anywhere close. For starters using mountains is stupid, you use red moxen, since you can play as many moxen as you want, but you can only play 1 mountain

@@daftwulli6145 you only need 1 mountain

@@WebSpyder777 you assume you would always get all 4 cards in your start hand, which is highly unreliable, and you have no redraws. AGAIN this is not anywhere close to the best. What do you do if you have 4 mountains, 2 channels and a fireball ? A stupid face and you lose, if you have 4 moxen instead you still win. It is still pretty unreliable but at least better then your version. But overall this deck is nowhere close to the best. Most decks i found in the comments are way better since they can recover a shit start hand in nearly all cases, and since you need all 4 cards in your starthand the chance of 1 of them missing is a lot higher then you think. Any really good deck in this format relies heavily on ancestral recall and often also time twister. A really reliable way to kill your opponent for example is black vice in combo with ancestral recall. You use time twister and recall to find the black vice in your deck (4 or so should be plenty, you actually do not want that many since you go through your deck anyway, and it diminished the chances you brick since you gave too many in your starthand) and as mana you use lotus and blue moxen, or even just black lotus. Every black vice already does naturally 3 damage, plus 3 damage for each ancestral you put on your opponent. In this format a turn 1 kill is pretty much a given if you do no brick hard, so the format is not really about finding a cool turn 1 kill, but making sure you get them as many times as possible. Consistency is key, and your deck is nowhere close to consistent, sorry.

It reminds me of playing 5cg tradewind geddon and winning almost every evening tourney for over a month at ostelen before the deck got played in some QT in the US and got known. I had seen some random mentionning the combo on themagicdojo with some shitty UW list, and it was obvious it would be much stronger in 5cg. So kinda came up with the deck on my own (with some mistakes, I played 1Maro for instance). Noone was playing firestorm to counter the lock either during that month ^^. I also came up with academia before Zvi made it popular on the dojo, although a non-optimised version (I wasn't using windfall nor lotus petals... Still got a few turn 1 kills ^^) and it was much shorter before the deck become known, maybe a week or so.

@@emphyriohazzl1510 Back then it was very different w/ no net decks. I played Tradewind w/ Living Death, Wall of Blossoms etc. I don't I played the Geddon version, but I do remember it. For academy, the set came out maybe 3-4 weeks before states and I used to go to a few shops. One was closer and had good competition, but the guys were pretty arrogant. The other shop was more laid back, but I liked the people better. Anyway, I remember trying out an early version of Academy at the Arrogant shop (testing, not a tournament) and was basically laughed out of the shop. I transitioned to the nicer shop, and although no one else there built it, they helped me refine it. I vastly enjoyed watching all the arrogant shop players drop out of the tournament as I ended up 2nd. That 2nd place still annoys me a bit, tied 1-2 and I was on the draw. My hand was set up for a T1 win IF my opponent didn't play a T1 Academy (Old Legend Rule). I knew it was a risk, but I was so exhausted mentally by that point I decided to gamble. He had it, and that was basically it. I was able to draw it out to T5 or 6 because he didn't have much else besides Academy, but it was enough.

Newer creatures being better than older creatures. The older spells and lands are more powerful though.

Too*

@@silent596 oh! Thank you! I left out an "o"! Whatever would I do linguistically without you!

@@silent596 all for the algorithm I suppose. (Wanted to misuse some words so you could correct. You being a stickler and all but I guess it's left up too you to find the the misuse.)

@@silent596 can you conjugate a verb?

@@silent596 I'm a troll of trolls

Worth more today. Even more tomorrow.

That guy is the ex CEO of WOTC and is worth hundreds of millions of dollars so he probably doesn't care.

@@CapsFan117 yea. Or probably has a thousand copies of black lotus lmao

@@tors17 alpha had 1400 printed total

@@Tacet137 ohh. Yea lol

Old people are like this. At a local store there was a older dude playing a regular ol $1,000+ modern deck--had no mat and was riffle shuffling the cards like it was a game of poker

If they weren’t proxies tbf.

Glad you enjoyed it!

Lightning bolts better because they are an instant and Fireball is a Sorcery.

Not always. I definitely have beaten 300-600$ standard decks with $50 or less home brews. In the time of khans of Tarkir in like 2014-2016 can’t remember. I played against Jeskai dark side in a top 4 and won with a black white warrior tribal home brew.

With that attitude your right.

Come on now. Even if you worked for minimum wage you’d see that much money in a few decades.

@@Nullzeros funny part is your right the average American workingn from 18 to retirement even on minimum wage will se about 3 million there entire career

@@loliking2763 Ya that’s all I was getting at. It would take a while but most people would see that money. Just not in the form of money that could be spend like on something besides bills.

"I won Rock, Paper, Scissors" "alright gg, you got this one" "good game"

Right. hell even with restricted and banned lists with no mulligans you can pull it off pretty consistently t1

@@DismemberTheAlamo Channel, Fireball, Simian Spirit Guide, and Elvish Spirit Guide. That’s all you really need. You can throw in a single basic land for good measure. You exile two Elvish Spirit guides and one Simian Spirit guide to pay for Channel and the red for Fireball. Then you exile one more of either and pay 19 life to cast fireball for 20. 6 cards required. Just hope your opponent doesn’t have Simian Spirit guide and Lightning Bolt in hand.

@@bradensorensen966 since when was spirit guide in alpha ?

Lol. Yugioh had a system and they stuck to it.

@@NikachuMTG I think he means that Yugioh started out as a well-rounded game with 4* monsters with 1800 attack, equip magic cards, and the like, but became the ridic mess that it is today and magic was then.

Hey I'm a guy who plays both Yugioh and Magic, and shocker I prefer Yugioh still lol. But since I play both it is Interesting to see how both games have evolved over the years. From Magic going from super OP cards to well rounded at times and Yugioh being well rounded and then going to super OP card lol

Definitely prefer and have more fun with Yugioh, the OP shenanigans are what makes it so much more exhilarating to play :D

Dude if you are honest both games have turned into S**tshows entirely, the developers of BOTH games nowadays have NO CLUE how to design a good, fair and balanced game. Ever heard of Winota, or Oko etc? No, the new Cards in MTG are more broken then ever. They had to Ban lurrus of the dream den, a new 3 mana cat because it was soo broken in all formats, and any game that allows for infinite Combos is a design- wise Faillure. Or Scute swarm, that can get to 100 or more tokens by duplicating itself lol. 60 Card Deck, over 100 Tokens with you for playing? what an insane Joke that is! no, both games are design wise Garbage ESPECIALLY NOW and that is also the Reason why MTG Arena lost over 50% of their Playerbase. When one of MTGS Designers, Mark Rosewater, asked the players on a poll, if they think the Powerlevel of the cards is too high, over 86 % answered him with a roaring yes! Nuff said.....

you would enjoy it ;)

1995 ? really ? 4-same card limit was introduced between beta and Unlim. AUnlim was released in januar 1994