[Correction posted approximately 18 hours after video upload]: at timestamp 25:28-25:30, there's an error: "They're still about 50 people today." According to LinkedIn, Retro Studios identify themselves as having between 51-200 employees, including non-devs like accountants, etc. Also on LinkedIn, 195 people currently identify themselves as Retro employees in their bios (as of November 5, 2023). Unsure if those bios are all up-to-date, but regardless the current headcount definitely appears to be more than 50. Apologies. This video was very thoroughly researched, fact-checked, and proofread (including by two ex-Retro devs) -- over the course of about 2 years in total -- but this error still slipped through. If it was a written article we would've already edited in a correction, but unfortunately we can't do that on KZfaq. Again, sincere apologies for the mistake.

The whole timing of this video couldn't have been any more unique, cause Masahiro Sakurai just 2 days ago on his KZfaq channel uploaded a video where he said how you shouldn't pitch a game to your execs and say "its like this other game" and most people agree that is more of a Japanese mentality and even more so a Nintendo mentality, cause they don't want to "lose their faces" by having to look at other peoples work to get ideas for their own games. In this video, the Retro dev who made the prototype for the Portal-like game talks how he bought a copy of Portal to explain to Nintendo what his game is gonna be like and Nintendo refused to look at it and didn't know what Portal was, for the exact same reasons Sakurai explained in his video. Both stories from two completely unrelated videos matched perfectly, beautiful.

Honestly looking at this video this story just kind of makes me wonder how the hell Retro is still even alive and how the games they have released are as good as they are.

The funniest part about Jeff Spangenberg is that he went on to found one more studio after Retro called Topheavy, and they only developed one game: The Guy Game. That game was always so bizarre to me, but it all makes sense now.

This video took hundreds of hours of research to make. If you like what you see, please give it a like and show it to a friend. Cheers 👍

Crazy to think that the development of Metroid Prime isn't just a down the rabbit hole story on making the game. But instead the entire history of the studio behind it.

DYKG slowly transforming into the best investigative journalism in gaming is something I never would've guessed when I first watched their "fun facts" type videos all those years ago, but I could not be more proud of how far y'all have come.

I didn't think this video would be this interesting. Them not caring about Metroid is depressingly hilarious. What strange luck.

DYKG just keeps on giving with their videos. Love how they always strive to be in the frontlines of discovering new information for not just their fans, but for gaming as a whole. Especially after hearing what happened to that Zelda video. They've come a long way from just fun game trivia. Please don't stop what you're doing DYKG!

I tend to think people tend to think of cancelled projects with too much rose-tinted glasses, sometimes. the idea of something they didn't get will always make someone's brain imagine the best product out of a nebulous concept, but sometimes one has to remember that sometimes projects get cancelled for good reasons. Project X is one of the best examples of "Not all cancellations are bad" cause clearly it was something that would have been awful but lack of knowledge on the subject allowed people to imagine something better than it could have ever been. Yes, sometimes cancellations suck, and games that could have been great get chopped before they can get a chance, but sometimes people need to remember that when Nintendo would tell Retro that their work would be better elsewhere, it wasn't out of simply wanting to get them down. More like a stern parent: They are not ALWAYS right, and can come off as rude, but they do have good intentions in mind.

The story of Retro sounds like of many studios that died years ago after making a franchise killing game, yet they are still here, making some of the best exclusive Nintendo games out there.

Before this video I never realized how difficult must be working for Nintendo, the relationship must be hard knowing the cultural differences between a western studio and a japanese company.

"It's like Portal, with combat." My 90s brain: "PORTAL KOMBAT!"

I think it's cool how you guys are able to make friendships with devs and even studios and get all this kind of information.

Really appreciate the DYKG team. These videos are incredibly interesting, and has a deeper dive behind the scenes and closed doors of the gaming industry that very few have the ability to see.

I remember hearing about 'Raven Blade' back in the 90s. It was mentioned on a bright orange VHS that came free with a nintendo mag.

15:36 - 18:42 The fact that we would've gotten Mario Kick-off Football during the GameCube era is a bit mind-boggling! I remember telling a friend that if Nintendo ever made a Mario Football game, then it would've been really fun and probably would've sold really well here in the west! I can't begin to tell you how much people loved Mario Sport games even if they're not the biggest sports fan!

That portal game sounded pretty cool and seeing the mechanics in action was even cooler.

Name a more iconic duo than Retro Studios and Cancelled games

I highly doubt Car Combat would've changed the way GCN vs PS2 panned out whatsoever

I cant believe Nintendo kept Retro on the books for so long without actually producing a game until Metroid Prime.

I think if Adept focused on the push/wind cylinders, it would've been approved. All those mechanics make the game seem more complicated and may be hard to balance into a concise experience that utilizes all of them equally. Plus, Nintendo loves easy-to-learn, hard-to-master stuff! Wind on it's own seems versatile enough to keep a game interesting, and could make combat, puzzles and platforming really interesting!

I remember reading the rumors of Spangenberg, strippers, and an adult website hosted on a Retro server. Pretty crazy it was all somewhat true!

I thought this channel did trivia lists. It’s really cool to see it level up into documentaries.

The story of Retro Studio would make a hell of a movie

Man that was the quickest 40 min that ever flew by. You guys are awesome at what you do!

I think learning that the Retro Studios Zelda was going to be dogshit in terms of gameplay was the funniest thing I've learned. It's kind of like Mighty No. 9 where they share concept art and people think the game is going to be amazing then the actual game is out and it's terrible.

I love Echoes, but holy shit that initial Prime 2 pitch sounds so good

Love it when you guys go into documentary mode, as a huge retro stan in the metroid prime era, this is a bit of a treat

That's a depressing running gag

It's amazing how this VERY American studio has been able to work so well for so long with the VERY Japanese Nintendo.

So good at taking a topic I wouldn't think of being interested in and got me tuned in every minute. Love it!

Raven Blade is one of those I've always wanted to see make a comeback, it would be really cool to see a Retro-developed action RPG overseen and tweaked by Nintendo- Nintendo polish and Japanese design concepts, combined with a gothic western RPG style, sounds rad Also it's hilarious that universal-manipulator and master of spacetime John Carmack was slightly involved in the game's death

Love this type of professional video with very little speculation, great job DYKG :D

i really appreciate the brackets in the titles for when information is researched specifically for the video. helps lower repetition and find really interesting videos

Every time I think I'm all caught up on Retro's history, y'all post a new goldmine like this. This was a great watch.

Amazing work as always, there's whole worlds of stuff going on behind the scenes that we'd just never ever hear about if secrecy was maintained.

with the recent Sakurai video about game pitches and not referencing an existing game as an example, im surprised to hear both sides of the example come up in this. the one that boggles me though is the combat car game where Miyamoto was confused on a fun concept, despite the later comparison to Mario Kart basically having that same set up, but then those other employees saying it should have been compared to Mario Kart would have gotten the projected canned right away with a probable response of "if its like Mario Kart, then why wouldnt people just play Mario Kart?"

Creating a studio named iguana and then out of spite wanting your new studio to be called mongoose cause they kill iguanas is one hell of a flex 😂 that's something that 100 percent would've been a thing nowadays

Nintendo absolutely dropped the ball *no pun intended * by not making Mario Kickoff Football. I would do anything for a game like that.

One part of me wonders (and maybe wishes) if Adept would've ended up being a Metroid Prime spinoff of some sort. Or hell, maybe some of the abilities you would've wielded would end up in a Prime game as utility weapons.

I don't know how any of you managed to research this deep but I'm more than thankful that you were able to uncover all of these amazing things and put them to the public to see. Thanks DYKG for all the effort and awesome content. Also, a Portal-like game in the Wii using the MP3 engine would have been super interesting to play!

If anyone wants to play the Sheik prototype, buy Sonic Frontiers and get to the wolf guardian. Its exactly as described and just as boring as you imagine

I found it funny that to represent what Spangenberg is up to today, you put a photo of a cabin where a hermit would live, when I imagine him living in a Hugh Hefner-style playboy mansion.

You guys have been killing it with the videos lately! Good shit

less than 50 employees when once were like 200, damn, now i see why metroid is taking so long aside for the restart of the whole project. EDIT: Heard this was corrected! so, never mind!

Man you guy need to make a compilation video or playlist of the stuff retro did and made because you guy got enough material to make a documentary

Incredibly well researched and well done video. I was fairly familiar with the Retro story but this is the best video that really sums it up all nicely. It’s honestly a miracle Retro has finished anything, let alone my favorite game of all time alongside several other all time great games they’ve made. Makes the guesses on MP4s development so hard to gauge, it could be a shitshow but it could also be stunning beyond belief. I usually never pass an opportunity to pick on Mark Pacini and the other two lead devs that left with him but I do feel pretty bad hearing about the burnout and being escorted out.

That's WILD! Adept had Portal 2 mechanics before Portal 2 existed.

I really must thank you for bringing to life for the first time the handful of images of these games I drooled over during the gamecube era, Raven Blade in particular. I always wondered how so many games of varying styles that looked so promising got cancelled, and now it all makes sense. Thanks a million for all the hard work and not being bullied by these bullshit lawsuits!

Thank you for your hard work getting all this info

As soon as I saw 'Cancelled Nintendo Games from Retro Studios' in the title, the younger me who had a VHS back in like... 2002/2003 with a trailer for Raven Blade got super excited

Another fascinating and entertaining watch!

Would be cool to see Raven Blade and Metaforce having a comeback pitch to see of they work today.

What's bizarre to me about the Madden situation is that Nintendo could've taken that opportunity to push Retro's original design of making a more arcadey american football game involving their IPs, but I have a feeling the reason we still haven't seen a take on the sport with them is due to Japan's disconnection with it, and that probably expands to NoJ's execs to an even greater degree given they have a hard time even communicating with their overseas offices (also as this video highlights was probably much worse around the millennium).

i find it amazing how you manage to get all these interviews, even with NOA guys you're doing an awesome job guys, easily my favourite "gaming history channel" :)

Awesome work

Metroid 1.5 sounds so insanely cool, I wish we got a game like that. Maybe some of it's ideas can find their way into Prime 4? Who knows?

Imteresting as it looks, I don't Adept would have taken off as a direct competitor to Portal. Honestly, it seems like Retro missed the whole point of Portal when they decided to make 'Portal with weapons'. To me part of the point of Portal IS that you have no weapons, other that the Portal Gun, the game works so well BECAUSE you have no weapons, it forces you to use your brain and solve puzzles with the portals, rather than giving you a hundred different options (such as teleportation, super jump, magmetism, or combat) that combine to make it too easy.

Great work

Absolutely incredible video. So much insight into not only Retro, but Nintendo's dev philosophies at large. Best gaming channel on youtube!!

When I heard the name “spangenberg” I already assumed he did all that stuff he did before knowing it. lmao

Based on all this, it's not doubt the amount of talent they had at the time, but it is also true that they worked at their best when they had some clear direction, like when Miyamoto "suggested" for then to work on Metroid or their President straight up say they had to work on DKC returns. Not saying they had bad ideas, but a lot miscommunication between then and Nintendo, plus how much can a concept look on paper but change over development.

Great work as always.

Loving all the retro info coming out recently

What an incredible video. A real service to the industry.

I’m one of the 6! Thank you for showcasing Retro NFL!

Incredible video!!!

I remember the story of the infamy of Retro's founder on Matt McMuscles' What Happened video about The Guy Game and when I heard his name come up it was like "oh no, here we go again".

Here’s what happened to spangenburg after he was cut from retro. Spangenburg made a new studio which made The Guy Game, a PS2/DVD game show game involving many women part of college spring break festivities at the time, answering questions with the consequence bejng that they flash their “assets”…… it gets worse…. cause it turns out one of the exposed women were underage as of the filming of her segment in the game…. This got spangenburg in legal trouble and got The Guy Game Banned.

This was so interesting, I love seeing cancelled projects like this and what could have been. A Nintendo take on Twisted Metal would have been really fun to play. And for years I've wondered why Nintendo has has a Mario game for every sport exect Football. With all there other sports games, especially with how fun & Brutal the Strikers games were, a Mario Football games seems like a no brainer. Only thing I can think of is that as a Japanese company, they're just concerned how much appeal an American Football Game would have outside the western market.

Love the video guys! I love Retro, too. While you were doing interviews, did any of them happen to mention if Prime 4 still has a pulse? Or is Nintendo just hoping we'll all forget about it?

23:21 Was it really Gunpei Yokoi's "baby"? I know it was developed with his team, but as far as I'm aware, Gunpei Yokoi didn't really have any involvement with the actual game itself. Hell, I heard a story of how he actually tried to *cancel* Super Metroid mid-development because he didn't like how slow the team was progressing. I don't think Metroid was created by one person alone.

Adept would be a really cool gimmick for Prime 4 can't lie

Great video

It's honestly a miracle Metroid Prime came out at all, much less that it ended up being so fantastic.

14:01 "Americans understand the culture of cars" Sony: [laughs in Gran Turismo]

6:01 incredible footage choice

so utterly fascinating to hear about this studio and their work even if none of these games got to see the light of day

*sees a crucified Boo in the thumbnail* Alright, I’ll bite

Dude, a car combat multiplayer game released near the launch of the console? I would have played the HELL out of that game! 90% of what I played on the Gamecube was multiplayer, and I was always down for another multiplayer game. And that first year of the GCN, I was so hard-up for a driving game that I bought Eighteen Wheeler Pro Trucker. Imagine how much happier I would have been if I could have put my money toward Retro's Car Combat.

This video is so perfectly done, thank you for digging up all this information! Now I'm kind of bitter we never got a Nintendo twisted metal racer...

DYKG is fucking amazing ngl

Did you know my uncle was Vasken Sawyer he changed his last name because he didn't want to associate with his actual family. He comes from the weird part of my dad's family. He was I believe either senior or lead designer for Metroid prime. He sent me a copy a few months before it's release for my GameCube signed by the whole team at retro studios when he worked there. Way before that though, he worked on a lot of point-and-click games on the old DOS computers like King's quest and might and magic and showed me a tech demo he was making for the DS. He showed me all the Metroid prime prototype files. He worked on the levels. Samus and other characters. He does a little bit of programming. He's a monster but I was happy to see this game early in my childhood and a copy of blood rain signed by the whole team. It's too bad I never get to see my uncle. He's off developing framework for like Dell or some s***

It's like the Ing in the dark of Metroid Prime 2 represented the crickets.

DYKG: [name drops Spagenberg] [terrified Matt in the distance]

So Metroid Prime 1.5 is the Simon's Quest or Zelda II in that so many ideas from it got put into future games, including future Metroid games.

My father has told me the same story a lot of times, from when he was in Japan, and wanted to give a book to the friend he was staying with. His friend said "Do not wrap it. Pretend it's your own book and that you accidentally left it here." I think there's a cultural taboo of Japanese people accepting gifts when they will be unable/not have time to reciprocate.

35:34 This is art!

I'm really interested in knowing what the hell was going on in between finishing DKC:Tropical Freeze and starting Prime 4 development.

If I had a nickel for every almost-completed, licensed sports game by Nintendo on the GameCube that got cancelled, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice! (For context: Nintendo also put together an MLB game, Nintendo Pennant Chase, that got canned after 2K agreed to bring the MLB 2K series to GameCube)

This is such a badass video

Putting this in my watch later so I can find out what’s up with the Jesus Boo nailed to a cross 😂

These devs must really have some serious passion to keep putting their all into these games, even after so many consecutive cancellations.

What an incredible story!😊

It's easy to blame Nintendo for a load of these, but the stuff mentioned about the dysfunction of early Retro makes me think they were probably smart to doubt their ability to cross the finish line.

"adept is like nothing you've ever played before, like portal with combat" so, Slipgate?

What kind of headphones is Mark wearing at the 26 minute mark? They look comfy af

i thought the crickets was a joke pun, like because they had less people, not because there were ACTUAL crikets around the place.

I would have loved to see that Blob/Boo game... Also, I've seen it somewhere refered as "Boo('s) Haunt"...