did we ever get to the bottom of that? is it related to the "no one escapes the maw" BS?

My crackpot theory is that; Whilst he broke free of his chains in the Maw and learned to use the power, no one had the ability to jail him again. With his newfound power he was referred to as the jailer by the rest of the covenant leaders who knew of his existence, but unable to do anything about him with their own conflicts. The way this information may have spread [because no one can leave the maw] is through Denathrius since at this time he was considered trustworthy but most likely working with Zovaal. Alternative idea; He's called the jailer by everyone who does not know of his prior arrangement as the arbiter or his original name Zovaal. And anyone that we would meet that would refer to him by that name goes along with the players presumption of his new name. Not likely wanting to say his real name/call him the arbiter since that is no longer a position he holds and would have to explain their prior relationship which makes them look shady. Our first experience with Zovaal as a player was him imprisoning people we know, therefore it's a monicker given likely by Azerothians to Zovaal.

@@rasmachris94 that very last sentence is what resonated with me the most. Might not be entirely canon but it works for me

Exactly wouldn't the Arbiter be the Jailer

@@rasmachris94 This don't really work since he is still trapped i nthe maw and thus cant get away from it thus jailed in it so he is still jailed in the maw at the start of SL, so this theory dont work =p There is issues with a lot of your points, first the covenents leaders are not in conflict, they started only when the Primus got captured, also, the convenents were still confident that Zovaal was trapped in the maw and wouldnt go away. Another term they used was the bannished one which also show you the issue, they call him the bannished one and the jailer at same moment... And more likely, i think you are trying to find a justification with theory that you are not meant to do, if he is caleld hte Jailer its because it would be dumb to fight a dudue called the Jailed...its only Blizz doing marketing there is no theories behind it.....or there will be if you continue your meddling and blizz see your message....since its how they do story since a while now.

Prophecies suck and are lazy story writing.

Yeah, he becamse a cry baby, for what reason ever. Hell, should just stop to make such videos at this point, they are utter garbage like that anyway. It's not the story's fault, that's clear. I watched other lore guys and none of them had the problem as he does. It's HIS problem to just want to see it that way. I don't get what's hard to understand with the WoW story. It fits together quite well and that you got some hickups here and there is no surprise, when you got such a massive story going on over 20 years, it's absolute impossible to plan all of that. This in mind, it's astonishing how they make it work. Meanwhile in the game I mainly played the last decade, FF14, the world building is utter crap, the protagonists are Mary Sues, the antagonists are forced to be incompetent idiots and they never even try that anything makes any sense. But for some reason people praise that pile of garbage (without being able to explain it), while they hate on the WoW story for no reason. Overall Warcraft story isn't that much of my taste, but it does not have to be to accept the quality and to understand it. If you don't understand the Shadowlands story and the characters inside, you really must be an idiot, because it's really not hard. Maybe people should do something for their intelligence instead and stop playing games for a while, I don't know... Or just try to use their brain and not just hate on something like a grumpy child.

@@miriamweller812 Looks like you have a passion by how many comments you commented on.

@@Bartoc1988 Has anybody ever told you what an asshole you are? If not, I'll do it.

@@miriamweller812fit together? Not that bad? Interesting? For someone claiming to be more intelligent than the “grumpy babies” you seem to be the most blind out of all of us my friend. We didn’t hate shadowlands because we didn’t understand it, we hate it because we understood that it was boring, uninteresting horse manure.

hes been updating on his second channel

As he acts now, he's the most shitty lore'master'.

We have to refuse this lore. Whatever garbage the current blizzard writers came up with - it has nothing to do with the original warcraft lore we all loved. To the contrary: its a desecration of it. But I also hope that Nobbel continues. Maybe he could draw a line between "this is what current blizzard says" and "this is what old blizzard said". That could help him moving on, without undermining his principles.

@@lxTxl They actually make SL irrelevant, since you can hop into DF without having played SL, just playing BfA is fine.

@@lxTxl jesus, living in denial is a insane practice. continuing to sub and buy blizzard is exactly why things will never change or get better for the company or player base.

I mean the lore is just not interesting anymore, not at all in any shape or form, all the interesting things that made the story fun in the recent expansions are the things that have been written years ago by really good writers, they haven't written anything new and good at all, that's why anything that's not related to the original books are garbage, I don't understand why it's so hard for them to hire talented and skilled people, there are so many amazing writers out there s^%$ing wind.

@@oldmasterspice Yeap there is people who keep eat spoon by spoon of sand and keep nod hoping for some sort of improvement... Yet they don't understand the improvements will born as the game will get closer and closer to it's demise... There blizzard should make a choise... Keep up and shoot themself in their feet once again or MAYBE try to change their practice. Still is such a shame a lot of stuff got retconned and for worse, let alone "sylvanas is no garrosh 2.0!" yet they kinda played it like that with a "twist!" (the redemption ark! wich nobody expected apart from all)

At this point, the players *are* the McGuffin. I'll take the polished look and feel of (most of) WoW as it is now, but the mystery and, thus depth, of the original. I'm leveling a rogue through WoD and... damn it's pretty! But, visuals alone don't make a good game.

@@Just_Call_Me_Tim legion we were at least front and center to the story and the progression... in shadowlands youre just a portal key

Just like bobby kotick

Not to mention we're trading in Malfurion, despite the fact that the entire pantheon owes us.

@@alexashton6501 but make sure you say your destination very clearly before using the port key, or who knows where you'll end up.

For a crybaby? Not so much, after all, he's doing it to cry about it, so exactly what he wants to do.

And he should've stayed hidden lmao

I guess that was sarcasm

Zovaal is the gift that keeps not giving

It's a real shame. The Jailer had the potential to be one of the best WoW villains... and all we got was a puppet.

@@iceburger he really didn't, his existence is based on ruining old character's lore, this mofo didn't stand a chance of being interesting.

Yeah like some artifact weapon backstories from legion that were tweaked or extended just for purposes of expansion, have more deepth and content than Zovaal story

was about to comment saying something like that lol, shows how flat shadowlands was

@@SantasGAINdeer he was the Primus ans Denathrius Puppet

And it was supposed to be like that until late development. Even trailer for Shadowlands has Sylvanas flying in front of Primus silouette, looking like the Runecarver. They just retconned it and changed the plot for Primus to be the good guy. Thats why theres theories that He actually orchestrated all of the story in SL, his captivity, and defeat of Zovaal which we did for him.

Good point!

Ultimate stability, everlasting, never changing - just like death itself. At the cost of an ultimate loss of all freedom, forever. With no more chance for escape. Is *this* worthy of being called "life" still? What is the point of existence, for the mere "purpose of existing" itself? Isn't life more than existing? And isn't that a self serving purpose of Zovaal? He would be the only one with free will, who can be a free *living* being. While everyone else is bound to his will, like slaves are bound to their masters' chains - and like the dead are bound to their tombs. How is this "existence" different from death, when you are bound like this? Did Zovaal maybe fear his own death, which he did foresee if the Universe would end? Rather than giving his life to a higher order and freedom to the souls beneath him, he decided to sacrifice everyone elses freedom, to preserve his own life and with it: his own freedom. As he would be bound and unfree for all eternity, by death. Just like he planned to do for all of creation. Instead of letting it go, accept death as the ultimate fate of this world, himself, everyone - but also letting everyone live freely, for the time given. Maybe it is our free will, that makes a difference, like a line in the sand - whether you "live".... or merely "exist". In my oppinion, having no own will anymore is like death. Speaking from personal experience. The only hope or difference between this existence and death was the conclusion, that death will come anyways sooner or later, so I might as well give it the time being despite the suffering. And because my family which I did not want to hurt. Dark times of severe depression between 04 and 08, before I felt that little spark of "life" in myself again. Like cinder, burried under the ashes, but still glowing...

This is all nzothts dreammare, even time lost is a lot of nothing, like heroes sleepover it. But as every dream, some things came true. Just few are aware of it, and LK is now again tought dead buuut he aint bc “There Must Always Be A Lich King”. My lorehead tl dr Sry for English

So you’re telling me you like *gray*

@@Zanzibawrr no I'm saying I like the sharp angles and overall design of the Maw and Mawsworn.

​@@AtomicVisionary Same, it reminded me so much of Sauron and Mordor; imagine if we had a compelling story to go with the menacing environment :'(

@@soaringturkeyvulture7506 it does heavily resemble the Morgul style. Which is one of my favorite fantasy aesthetics. That's why I was so quickly drawn to it.

Do you mean the actual story or how the players felt?

The problem is the storytelling. I think if you take the same exact story and tell it well it would've been decently received.

@@TheGerrok I may be wrong, but quite sure this time wouldn't work out regardless of how you tell that story. What would it be? The main focus of that story was "another big bad", i just wish they have had gone with "fuck life and death", by the start of the shadowlands he was going to be Thanos style, killing half so the other half could survive, but Jailer's motivation was litterally his last phrase. So yes, could've been better, but in the end once the "veil" is lifted, it would still feel bad. Dare i say it would be even worse if i was well told (We kinda knew from bfa that it would probably be bad). btw, my english sucks.

@@VictorMachadoThundermight I think you touched on the problem, they didn't make a character. You can make him one dimentional at the beginning, but show a short cutscene and reveal something about him. Then another something later. And a small piece later. It doesn't take much before you get an actual interesting bad guy. Just look at how quickly they built up Sire D.

If only we had had more content patches for them to develop him as a character.

- Endwalker Spoilers - ---------------------------------- I feel like an even better example is Meteion who had even less screentime then Emet and the Jailer with half an expansion without patches, was the character who put all of the story's events into motion for the finale and introduced last-minute and yet is still a much better character compared to the Jailer with an actual motive and reasoning that resonates with the tone of Endwalker.

@@jacktconnor It wasn't just Meteion, but Meteion and her countless sisters. We only got a few lines from the different sisters in the hivemind, and even then you can get an idea of what they went through or what they experienced.

@@F34RDSoldier805 Exactly! Despite them only being introduced in Endwalker the writing does really well to give you their perspective, Ultima Thule especially with how raw that zone gets. It's why I don't buy into the whole "The Jailer didn't have enough screentime" as they certainly did, but all of it was needlessly cryptic and what is revealed confuses the plot more then giving answers for a supposed finale.

Alpha has more personality than the Jailor and 99% of its dialogue is "KWEH"

@@jacktconnor We knew Meteion/her sisters for ~3 hours and perfectly understood her motivation, personality, relationships, and were present when she fell from grace, and it still all fit into the lore without retconning anything. WoW can't even make an antagonist without falling into the "mwahahaha Im evil because I can" trope.

Zoval relied too much on us thinking other stuff was cool for it to work. All the shadowlands ended up doing was come across as bad fanfiction.