NOISE SIMPLIFIED, WHAT CAUSES IT, HOW TO REMOVE IT!

Рет қаралды 21,965

Күн бұрын

I explain exactly what causes the noise in your images, how you can reduce it, and I address the misconception that ISO directly causes noise. I also look into how noise reduction allows us to use higher shutter speeds. I hope you find it helpful. Cheers, Duade
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Chapters
00:00 What Causes Noise?
00:52 ISO Does Not Cause Noise
02:06 What ISO For Wildlife
03:33 How Sensor Gets Light
04:11 Aperture
05:49 Shutter Speed
06:32 Light Value
08:29 Sensor Size & Type
09:35 Noise Reduction
11:56 40D & 400 5.6L
14:31 Highest ISO
15:41 Conclusion
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Пікірлер: 163

@przybylskipawel 11 ай бұрын

Technically the lack of light is not causing noise but it is causing worse signal to nosie ratio. As a result to increase signal to viewable level you also have to increase the noise. Also. Camera does not amplify the light. If it did we wouldn't have problem with noise. It amplifies the signal recorded based on gathered light. This signal however already contain noise and they are both recorded. At first it amplify electrically the signal and part of the noise. Above some ISO it just increase the signal digitally amplifying the signal and all the noise. That is why it is better to set your ISO to achive right exposure up until the point when it doesn't matter any more.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Pawel, totally agree, I sould have tried to explain it has you just have. I have pinned your comment so people can see it first. I battle trying to keep it simple and not too complicated but will try better next time. I guess on a simple level the lack of light causes the SNR issue? Cheers, Duade

@treeman3663 11 ай бұрын

@Duade Paton you explain well just sometimes a bit fast

@przybylskipawel 11 ай бұрын

@@Duade Yes. Because the light is our signal that changes. And the noise of digital path in camera of simmilar age is more or less constant. There is also analogue path noise that depends on heat and other factors related to that part circuitry and this one can increase with different ISOs (not only is being amplified after recording). I don't understand all the details, but essentially in most cases noise is virtually constant, and the signal differs. But after recording data when raising the exposure you increase both signal and noise. Therefore less SNR = more noise.

@davepastern 11 ай бұрын

well said Pawel. Spot on mate.

@davepastern 11 ай бұрын

@@dr5290 I've never given much weight to DXO's "weightings".

@789juggernaut 11 ай бұрын

I've watched many of Duade's videos. He is one of the most skillful communicators on KZfaq. I've become a much better photographer because of him because I now actually understand the theory of what I'm doing. He obviously puts an incredible amount of thought, time and effort into them...and they're available for free! Many thanks.

@kenthompson6288 11 ай бұрын

I have been a photographer for years and this is the best video I have ever seen on how to get light to the sensor. Best explantion of the relationship of Aperature, shutter speed and ISO. Thanks Duade , I shared this with my brother in law who is just beginning his journey in photography.

@AndrewRock 11 ай бұрын

When and only when the modern AI noise removers came was I confident to shoot in M mode, with auto ISO. However that coincided with having more recent cameras that allow for exposure compensation in M mode (affecting only the ISO). Best way to shoot if your camera can do it.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Andrew, yes, modern cameras are very good at handling the lack of light and being able to set your SS is very handy. Cheers, Duade

@ahmedbebars6844 11 ай бұрын

I was always a bit reluctant to use those noise reduction programs as I was afraid that they'll smoothen detail and decrease overall sharpness, but now I'll give them a try, I got nothing to lose.

@KurtisPape 11 ай бұрын

Mainly Topaz will smooth the details from my experience, there is a work-around, you use the inbuilt masking tool on the subject or even better is I would overlay the noisy image with the denoised image and change the opacity of the top layer to bring back some detail but now I changed to dxo pureraw2 and the results are much better and more realistic and keeps the details better.

@AndrewRock 11 ай бұрын

My main go to is DxO PureRAW. I think it preserves detail better than the alternatives.

@KurtisPape 11 ай бұрын

@@AndrewRock yea im using pureraw 2 now, I have no need to upgrade to pureraw 3

@Twobarpsi 11 ай бұрын

Great explanation! The window analogy really demonstrates the effect of aperture!

@garrywatters1140 11 ай бұрын

Camera manufacturers have now thrown into the mix what is called dual native iso. This is where two different iso levels produce the same noise result. The R6, R5, R3 in canons stable has this. Look it up as it is fascinating to see.

@MegaWeitzel 11 ай бұрын

Great base description, but you missed an important part on aperture, and that is effective aperture. The aperture is actually defined as "focal length" divided by "entrance pupil". So an 800mm F6.3 has an entrance pupil of 126mm, while for example a 400mm F4 just has an entrance pupil of 100mm. As the entrance pupil size suggests the 800mm 6.3 is actually capable of collecting MORE light than the 400mm F4! This is intuitive if you would use a 2x TC on the 400mm, it would just act as an 800mm F8. But the same happens when you crop in camera. At F4 each pixel gets more light, but as there are far fewer pixels of the subject, the overall light gathered from the subject is lower. So if you crop, the equivalent aperture is a far more valuable comparison tool than the numeric aperture of the lens! So if your subject is at a distance where you have to crop anyway, a 600mm F6.3 gathers more light than a Nikon 400mm F4.5, or a Canon 800mm F11 gathers the same amount of light as a 400mm F5.6. The Canon 500mm F7.1 often criticized for its small aperture gathers for example the exact same amount as a 400mm F5.6 ...

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for that and very interesting, it all has to do with cropping doesnt it. Same argument for and against APSC and M4/3, they have an advantage until you don't need to crop and then the FF and lower aperture has an advantage. I guess it all depends on how often you crop and can you get close to the subject. But great way of thinking of it, thanks for sharing. Cheers, Duade

@harderja 11 ай бұрын

The argument on an APS-C or full frame sensor. If you put a full frame lens on APS-C camera, you are in effect getting a cropped version already. If my friend and I are standing in the same place, me with a 24 megapixel APS-C camera and he with a 36 megapixel full frame camera, We both have a 600 mm full frame lens. Taking a picture of a statue far away, the effectiveness is not much different. He may need to crop his pic in post to effectively get what I am already getting in camera. Now if the statue is 10 feet away my friend may not need to crop in post and my camera did not get the shot. I do shoot with APS-C sensor camera for this reason. When picking a lens, if it's a long fixed or zoom lens, I will go for a full frame lens, I can get a 300 mm with an effective 450 mm. In a short lens, I will tend to get an APS-C lens. I purchased a 50 mm full frame lens because of the quality of lens and the price, I would rather have gotten a 40 mm DX lens or a 35 mm full frame.

@dangold2595 11 ай бұрын

Vary informative,good explanation of aperture & light ,keep up the good work !

@youritguy1 29 күн бұрын

I was doing some research on how shutter and ISO affect image noise and came across your channel. I use the Denoise feature in Lightroom a lot, but your video helped me feel more confident using it. After all, the most important thing is getting the shot.

@msyuan1124 11 ай бұрын

Combined with the comments, great presentation, as always. Thanks!

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Mark, I apprecaite it, Cheers, Duade

@richwoodham3296 10 ай бұрын

Wow!!! My head is spinning 😅😅 Excellent video that so know I will watch it like 20 times to remember all the facts… Thank mate.

@Duade 10 ай бұрын

My pleasure Rich, glad it was helpful, Cheers, Duade

@paulasimson4939 11 ай бұрын

This is the best explanation of image noise I've ever seen. You're a born educator, Duade.

@angusmcdonald1223 11 ай бұрын

Great info as always mate

@georgemccormick1247 11 ай бұрын

Great info, thanks Duade👀👀

@lachlangraham1062 11 ай бұрын

Hi Duade, great video again. I use Topaz after watching an earlier video of yours, it is now a default part of my workflow. It has cleaned up images from my 6D and legacy shots from my old 1000D. I use ISO up to 12800 on the 6D no problem. It was a game changer for me.

@PaulAmyes 11 ай бұрын

The notion that high ISO equals noise has some foundation in truth. CCD sensors and early CMOS sensors circa 2004 were pretty bad at high ISOs irrespective of whether you got the exposure right or not. I have the original Canon 5d and I really didn't like using it above 400 ISO. The banding and noise patterns in shadow areas was horrendous. When the sensor architecture changed to have the hardware on the rear of the sensor in 2009 things started to really improve and got us to the position where we are now. Prior to the development of the BSI sensor the chance of an input proton being captured was around 60%, BSI sensors increased that to 90% which means they are more efficient in low light situations.

@davidfelber 11 ай бұрын

Fabulous, as always. By the way, your front yard is absolutely lovely! Thank you so much. PS This video is also a great argument for buying older used gear, which is what I use. 7D Mark II with a 400mm f/5.6 or a 500mm f/4 version I (both fabulous old lenses). Topaz Denise AI with Lightroom makes many things possible.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks David, very true, we can continue to use older gear with fantastic results. Glad to hear you are enjoying the 7DII. Cheers, Duade

@robinjhood71 11 ай бұрын

Great video as usual Duade. Very informative and very well explained.

@arthurg9737 11 ай бұрын

Duade, thank you for the clear explanation very useful!

@treeman3663 11 ай бұрын

Very helpfull very informative thx duade

@wdg21 11 ай бұрын

Noise is a concern for me; I just purchased a Canon 600 f4, but will use it on an older 5D2; this alleviates some of my concerns, thanks!

@abdullahalshakib2977 11 ай бұрын

Your videos helps me a lot😊

@Lightsmith_UK 11 ай бұрын

Great explanation of noise and exposure - thanks 😊

@benoutside7593 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video! I had never really tried noise reduction software until Lightroom recently added the recent update. It has become a game changer for me. I used to worry about high ISOs and was disappointed when my photos looked noisy. I had heard about Topaz, but just wasn’t ready to spend the money on it. Thankfully, Lightroom added the noise reduction feature to my current program. I have used it for several weeks now and been very pleased with the results. It would be interesting to see how the different noise reduction softwares compare. Thanks again for the video!

@julioamaral4391 11 ай бұрын

Many thanks, Duade! High quality information! Technical and practical, supported by evidence. My R5 just arrived! Going to South Georgia next Oct. Always learning from you. Best from South Brazil.

@cerealkiller4248 11 ай бұрын

Can I just add, coming from an original 7D ( 2010 ) a notorious camera for noise, one thing I remember from back then was to use native ISO settings, that is 100, 200, 400 , 800 etc etc. if you select say ISO 640 the camera will boost it to 800 if it feels it needs to, and that extra boost introduces quite a lot of noise, more than if you just set the ISO to 800 initially. When I bought an R6 I wasn’t blown away by the FF sensor, that was because I was shooting in good light where the differences between crop sensors and full frame sensors is diminished even when there’s 10 years difference between the sensor tech.

@chrisgibson1406 Ай бұрын

Duade, When explaining about Fstops to less experienced photographers i tell them to remember "more is less and less is more."

@polmestra 11 ай бұрын

As usual your explanations are the best! Thank you for being a teacher for us all :)

@treeman3663 11 ай бұрын

Been playing with this and are slowly getting it

@laurelb8372 11 ай бұрын

Very good explanation Duade, good analogies. Thank you

@dyna-drone1952 11 ай бұрын

Another good video. I am such a slow learner about the settings and stuff but you greatly improve my knowledge of this and my photos are really starting to improve. Thanks keep up the good work.

@happynjoyousnfree Ай бұрын

Thank you! I love your charts 😊

@Duade Ай бұрын

You are so welcome!

@ianslingsby3415 11 ай бұрын

Thanks, Duade, really made me rethink my approach to ISO and shooting style.

@jimgernon7452 11 ай бұрын

Great info, thanks.

@pseudophotog 11 ай бұрын

Many thanks for this clear and simple explanation Duade

@charlesfisher2134 11 ай бұрын

I just pulled out my 40 old D. I used a 77D but love that 40. It's like a classic car. Love your shows.

@andrewkeir2282 11 ай бұрын

once again a really clear description

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks mate, glad it was helpful, Cheers, Duade

@JohnCooper-jl5nt 11 ай бұрын

Loved the technical explanations and found the content helpful I’m a topaz De Noise user. Thank you.

@przybylskipawel 11 ай бұрын

Third way to increase the light is to add some light. Have you ever use flash for wildlife? What are your experiences? I thought about it. Even have proper gear but I find it difficult to set it up right. Both physically and in terms of camera/flash settings.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Hi Pawel, I have always struggled with flash to be honest, I have used it a few times but struggle to set it up and find it to be a pain. Jan is a master at flash but uses it a lot less now. Cheers, Duade

@David15226 11 ай бұрын

I have used a flash with bird photography, and within certain limitations it works quite well. The flash is really only used as a fill light, so it is set to a -1x exposure compensation. Once set up everything is really quite automatic. It does a nice job giving a catch light for the eyes as well. The major limitations is the flash sync speed restricts you to relatively stationary subjects, and of course the distance has to be within the range of the flash. Just another tool to use when appropriate.

@bobforgas8420 11 ай бұрын

Best explanation of noise I've ever heard.

@davepastern 11 ай бұрын

splitting hairs Duade, but ISO kind of exacerbates a light starved sensor. Since ISO is simply amplification of the original input data, you're amplifying poor quality light starved data and making what's already bad, even worse. IN the good old film days, ISO directly impacted image quality, since higher ISO films had larger grain structure. This is where digital really excells imho. Even at 25600, noise from my R3 is better than Tmax 800 ever was back in the day! I am counting down the weeks till I can use my rig again. 4 more weeks.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks mate, yes, it appears I need to do more research on the exact goings on as it is a bit confusing. I will be trying the R3 soon and looking forward to it. Cheers, Duade

@davepastern 11 ай бұрын

@@Duade Nah, you are right - as long as plenty of light is hitting the sensor, even higher ISOs will be reasonably clean with digital cameras. Starving them of light (underexposure) causes noise to worse as the base signal is amplified more. Higher noise that's amplified will always make noise even worse. Darker colours tend to show up noise more too, that's just optics. Modern MLCs chroma noise is really well controlled. Luminance noise is much easier to clean up than chroma noise. Analogue film ISO is a very different beast. I think you will love the R3. It's obviously bigger, but it isn't super heavy (about the same weight as the R5 with its battery pack). I think you will enjoy its DR and high ISO performance. AF is superb of course.

@Hummingbirder1 11 ай бұрын

Ha! I told my partner about our inofficial softie-game, and he was faster watching this video (I was busy consuming Trump-indictment content). He told me "No new softies in the background!" Since he might be more attentive on your message in the video than roaming for visual clues in the background, he totally missed that tiny turtle...😏 (To be clear: I totally listened to and watched the video for the excellent learning points. You're a natural born educator/pedagouge!)

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Lol, I am running out of soft toys to be honest :-) Cheers, Duade

@Hummingbirder1 11 ай бұрын

@@Duade I'm fully aware that this will happen. It's totally OK to get the old faves back in the game.

@rreichar1 11 ай бұрын

Great job as always! Congratulations! I saw the video was shared by Shutterbug as well. I shared your video with a friend of mine who is a novice bird photographer. She listens carefully when I talk about the exposure triangle and such but I don’t think that translates well while we’re out shooting. Without noise reduction software I doubt that I would have ended up with the OM-1.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Rod, I appreciate it, it really is game changing the ability to use NR software. Cheers, Duade

@narinthip3058 11 ай бұрын

Another great video Duade. I love your backlit Herons image a lot. BTW, your OM-1 images comparison, I believe one main reason is that fact that you stopped down to F8 making the right image look much sharper. Would be a fair comparison if you would have shot them at the same aperture. Of course, I agree about noise reduction software these days, they are amazing and I do use DxO as well. Cheers.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Narin, yes, I probably should have, I just wanted to show that you can stop down and use higher SS and still get nice shots. Cheers, Duade

@wildcat1065 11 ай бұрын

Great explanation. I had noticed myself that you can use a high iso setting in bright light with little noise and the same iso in poor light and the noise is far more intrusive. If you are light-limited and using a faster lens is not an option and you have already maxed out the aperture and using a slower shutterspeed is not an option either for reasons of image blur, you are then forced to raise Iso. This gives the impression that it is raising the iso that increases noise but as you correctly point out , it is the lack of light that directly causes it.

@RVNmedic 11 ай бұрын

Quite a few really technical comments. Bottom line is your explanation was simple and straight forward. Outstanding review. How do you determine LV?

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Bruce, it is a challenge to try to make is simple as the actual techincal explanations get confusing very quickly. I try to make a balance but concede I am not an expert so get it slightly wrong from time to time. Visit this site and put in your exposure and it will tell you the LV. Cheers, Duade www.scantips.com/lights/exposurecalc.html

@RVNmedic 11 ай бұрын

@Duade Paton Thanks Duade.

@ammadoux 11 ай бұрын

it seems that you were listening to my mind 😂. just yesterday was telling myself that back in the film days high iso means bigger grains of silver halide and more sensitivity for light i understand this quite well because my study is chemistry. but now in the digital world what is high iso and why it reduces the IQ so much as it gets higher, thanks for explaining.

@Gaztography 11 ай бұрын

Hi Duade, another well explained video. Thank you. The new NR in LR is very good although takes a while on my ageing PC, which does not help with workflow. I've not been a big fan of NR software previously, more expense to fork out but am trying it more now it's built into LR. Bonus. Cheers Gary

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Gary, yes very handy to have built in for sure. Cheers, Duade

@divided9312 11 ай бұрын

You are really great sir.

@nicholasgibson5549 10 ай бұрын

Hi Duade, I'm really enjoying the videos ... it's wonderful to hear an Australian voice, highlighting birds that are there for us all to see/capture. I have already subscribed, but am trying to find the 'join' tab, so I can sling a small amount your way in appreciation. Can't find it ... perhaps you already have too much cash and don't need any more! If you can steer me the right way it will be a win-win. Have decided to bite the bullet and go mirrorless with an R7, and an 18-150 as my 'everything but birds' lens and a control ring adapter so I can use my (second-hand) 100-400Lii, plus a 1.4 extender. Happy days!

@wanneske1969 11 ай бұрын

You are so right ! Aperture and shutter speed are physical parameters that determine the amount of light on your sensor, whereas Iso is something electronical or software.

@TomazNMelo-tf9sc 11 ай бұрын

The most important thing to improve my photography was when I discovered one video in your channel that you talk about Topaz Denoise and them I started to use DxO PureRaw and I can't believe how my photos become better and also now I always got much more sharp photos just because I can use higher iso and increase my shutter speed. On that point I become a fan of your channel and I never miss a new video.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Tomaz, I appreciate the ongoing support, Cheers, Duade

@jenky1044 11 ай бұрын

Great show Duade. Thank you. I use to run PS & LR a decade ago when you could buy it. Then Adobe got into renting software to make way more money, and i opted not to play. Now i just try to get it right in camera or as good as i can and hope for the best. I sure loved LR though.

@mikem922 11 ай бұрын

Very informative Duade! In New Zealand with the low winter light inside heavy bush/tree cover I used to struggle a little with the Canon 5D III and tried not to stray above ISO 3200 for fear of noise. I have found with the R6 that a combination of the sensor and IBIS (with lens IS) has allowed me to live with a slower shutter speed and ISO. Where needed I have found ISO 6400 still clean of noise. However I would like to try DXO PureRAW 3 as I have been very impressed with the results I have seen at your channel and it would really allow me to raise my shutter speed and ISO higher especially winter months with the lower light here.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Hi Mike, my experience is the same, if you use Lightroom I would suggest trying that one as well. But yes, DXO works very well. I think shooting both works, that is low ISO low SS and High SS High ISO if the bird stays still long enough. Cheers, Duade

@utubify100 11 ай бұрын

Well done on demystifying the noise questions I'm sure many have, Duade. Thanks for the info & clarification on many of the pertinent points! I shoot in cloudy, shady conditions often & as a result, often use higher ISOs with the R7 then I would otherwise. For me, using DXO PureRaw 2 on anything over 1250-1600 ISO provides results I am almost always happy with. The highest I have gone is 10K, but I feel that is definitely a little too high most of the time. Recently, I have done some experimentation with LR's new denoise AI & find it quite good overall...not as good as DXO, but if LR had this feature before I purchased DXO, I'm not sure I would have done so. For me, to manage my noise levels, I usually take a hit in shutter speed before opening the aperture of all the way, but as always, I believe it's all about what trade offs you are willing to accept. In regards to noise in images, I can say that the current software offerings make it far less of an issue than it ever was in past. You really can get away with soo much more now. It certainly is easier now to take great shots than it ever was in the past. When I think about 35mm, all manual focus, set ASA/ISO speeds per roll, someone else processing your frames & the amount of grain/noise there was in 400 ISO shots...light years distance between those two times. Thanks again for all your efforts & best of luck out there in future sessions. Best regards ~ Chris

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks mate, I appreciate the response and yes, we are fortunate to have the flexibility now to decide what we want to do. When I started I was restricted to ISO800 really but now we can go so much higher. Cheers, Duade

@dougwelch5049 11 ай бұрын

Great video. I need to download the upgraded dxo.

@MrDan1943 11 ай бұрын

the camera world has changed. I was always a Nikon shoot and my last camera was an early D3 full frame. As a landscape shooter I usually left it on "Auto" mode!!!! Once in a while I switch to Aperture Mode. ISO was 100-200. Rarely up to 400. Never thought of shooting birds in flight. Now with an R5 Canon I switch to back-button focus-eye tracking-auto ISO for everything. So now stationary subjects are shot with 400-500 Servo while fast subjects are shot at 2000 -2500 ISO wide open or stopped down one stop depending on the lens. De-noise or DX3 fixes the noise but the focus is usually sharp. Landscapes? Well single shot 60-200 ISO seems to be the norm. Programming the M-fn button to switch between C1-C2-C3 allows all three mode to change on the fly.

@Dustman-iu7yh 11 ай бұрын

Great explanation. I will have to try and get more shots with a lighter background. My computer is too old to use noise reduction software. I can’t wait to get a new computer so I can try this noise reduction software on my images that are higher iso then I would like to use but if I didn’t I wouldn’t have got a good shot. As you said better to use a higher shutter speed and iso then to have a blurry image.

@ScottRitchie-bw9ls 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Duade another very informative and comprehensive video. I've gone the full circle with noise reduction, starting with topaz DN then on to DXO then back to Topaz Photo AI. I've been using the latter because I can do noise reduction and sharpening all the same time. A one stop shop. Recently I did try the light room Denoise and I was pretty impressed. Finally, I've had a question it's been on my mind for ages. And that is whether I'm actually processing my images correctly for what I want in the end. So I shoot in CRAW and then run that through my noise reduction. I take the massive DNG file, crop it as I see fit and reduce the size down to 20 to 30 megs. That is the TIFF file that I send to Lightroom for editing. I use the final edited file to print a JPEG for social media etc. I wonder reducing the file size down to 20-30 megs affects quality. Certainly for social media as I don't see is a problem but if someone wanted to print something and put it on the wall, should I not reduce the size from the DNG? What would the minimum size be? Thank you for your time

@WernerBirdNature 11 ай бұрын

Hi Duade, thanks for this interesting 'reflection' on how to deal with light. Always useful to stop a think about this! Recently we spotted a badger just before dark: for safety I used 1/400 but ISO was really high on my R5, my friend gambled on 1/40 and was able to use much lower ISO on his R7 and he got lucky the badger posed for half a minute .. If only we could accurately predict the animal behavior, we'd have much better settings to deal with the circumstances ;-) @ 8:22 the landscape shot reflected in the eye is much more beautiful in the lowly LV 9 case ;-) You're probably right about the sharpness of the right jacky winter even when the ISO was higher, but on youtube the difference in sharpness got lost, and then I like the pose of the left Jacky winter much better 😛

@johnglover6240 6 ай бұрын

Could you address when you would choose to use a full senor camera like the R5 vs. when you would choose to use a cropped sensor camera life the R7 and why. You explanations are always clear and thoughtful so I always appreciate and learn from them. Thank you.

@Duade 6 ай бұрын

G'day John, I personally would always use the R5 as I prefer the AF, less rolling shutter, bigger buffer and if I get close enough I have 45mp vs 32mp. However if you know the subject will be a long way The R7 is very good for shorebirds, ducks where you need lots of reach and the light is often good. In theory the R7 will offer more pixels on the subject if you have to crop the R5 heavily. I hope that helps, Cheers, Duade

@stevenrayphoto1280 11 ай бұрын

Awesome video Duade! How do think the OM-1 compares to the R5 image quality?

@johnjuby6184 11 ай бұрын

Thank you Duade for being an awesome, awesome, awesome teacher! I get it. It's all been rumbling around in my mind for years. You just removed the rumble. It means the next time I shoot I will be way more sensitive to all that affects the light I see. Is there a physical LV meter?

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Hi John, yes, film photographers used them to allow them to make accurate exposures. I have not used one personally but if you google light meter there should be plenty available. Cheers, Duade

@tysonator5433 11 ай бұрын

Very well explained video and should give confidence to use older gear. My first DSLR was canon 400d and is maxes out at 1600 ISO, I upgraded to 7D and noise came in at 800 ISO, then I upgraded to 7Dii and that was good up to 6400 ISO. My latest cameras Sony A6600 abs canon R7 are still noisy after 6400, however software removers 95% of the noise and sharpens the image. So people do not be afraid of the dark and the noise ! !

@kylehornby1842 5 ай бұрын

Duade - great videos, thank you! My 13-year old and I watch these all the time and we've learned a ton from you. We are looking at Topaz DeNoise but also their Topaz Photo AI offering at higher cost. Have you used the full-service Photo AI or do you know anybody who has? We're wondering if to just grab the DeNoise application or maybe spend a bit extra for their Photo AI which offers more functionality. Thanks again for all the great content, Duade! Kyle and Roderick

@Chris_Wolfgram 11 ай бұрын

On your little window comparison, you should have had the smallest window, with a curtain over it, to simulate my 800 F11 :) lol LOVE my slow lens :) My R7 has a max (default... I think it can be expanded) of ISO 6400. But I personally try to keep it to a max of 3200. Typically, even in lower light, ISO 2000 or 2500, for my safety shots, with a shutter speed of like 1/200 or 1/250th. Then, if my subject sticks around, I start bumping down my shutter speed, and just take lots of shots. After all, I really only need 1 good, sharp one :) DXO for the win ! If it still needs it, I might use a touch of Topaz, as a final step.... but I kind of consider that a personal fail. If I do my job correctly, it shouldn't need it. Great video as usual :) TY.

@789juggernaut 11 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Bruce, I appreciate it, Cheers, Duade

@celts88-78 9 ай бұрын

Duade, I haven't even got my camera yet and I've become a member of your page. The info you present is fantastic, but the thing I like the most is the way you present it. It really feels as if you're talking just to me in simple but fact filled ways. I'm just a beginner, so if I was to start on a learning curve with your videos is there an order or playlist you would recommend me starting with? Thanks for your videos you really are an inspiration 👍 PS - for your info I'm getting an R6 MkII with the rf 24-105 f4L kit lens, the rf 100-500 f4.5-7.1L and I found a pristine 2nd hand rf 800 f11 (will also be getting the 16 f2.8 & 50 f1.8 primes at the same time).

@Duade 9 ай бұрын

Thank you for the support I appreciate it, congrats on your kit, it is wonderful, the 800 f11 works surprisingly well on the R62 and is great for small birds. The RF100-500 is just wonderful for everything and hte 24-105 is great for landscapes etc. There is no real order in which to watch the videos, perhaps see what you are struggling with or need help with and leave me a comment and I will respond. Good luck, Cheers, Duade

@celts88-78 9 ай бұрын

@Duade I mean this in the best possible way, but it's your fault I went and bought the RF100-500 & RF800 😛 Joking aside, I had originally ordered RF100-400 with the R6 2 and felt happy after seeing your video on it, but then saw your video on the RF100-500 and thought if I pay the extra now I'll have the benefit of an extra 100mm at the top end, always know I have the better lens and won't regret the extra cost in the long run. I got a hardly used RF 1.4x extender to go with the 100-500 so that will take me up to 700mm and also have the RF800 for the additional distance. I can try the 1.4x extender on the 800 to see how it is in good light for a massive 1120mm (not sure how it will go at F16, but it's worth a go and cost me nothing to try as I got the 1.4x to use with the RF100-500). Your videos make it so exciting for myself to get into photography, and what with myself turning 59 this year I've got the next years to try and pick up some of the great tips from your videos. Not expecting miracles, but hoping I can progress from a complete novice to being able to get some decent photos in a shorter time than if I hadn't saw your videos. Mate you really have got a way with presenting the info in your videos that not just present it in a simple and easy to understand way, but you provide this excitement of what we can do as amateurs to produce photos that will put a big smile both on our faces and hearts. Thank you for putting so much of your valuable time into the videos you produce - 'go you good thing' 👍

@Duade 9 ай бұрын

@@celts88-78 Thanks for the kind words I really appreciate it. It is a wonderful hobby to pass the time and enjoy nature. The best advice is to try and find a local lake or park with tame birds and practice on those to get a feel for your gear, light etc. it is very hard chasing rare birds in the bush and can be a bit frustrating. Try to enjoy the process of being out and try not to focus too much on the photo to start with, of course this is easier said than done by many times I have come home with nothing but I had a great time getting nothing. 😀 Have fun out there. Cheers, Duade 👍

@Duade 9 ай бұрын

G'day, apologies for the delay, thank you for such a nice comment and I really appreciate the feedback. Have fun with the kit. Cheers, Duade@@celts88-78

@haydennettleton3272 11 ай бұрын

With modern iso inverant sensors you can pretty much shoot at base iso and raise the exposure in editing software and the noise will be the same as if you had used the correct iso in the field, only downside is the preview on the camera screen will be very dark. Dont try this on older sesnors though the result wont be pretty.

@9Mtikcus 11 ай бұрын

Good video apart from... The Sensor size does not effect Light gathering this is a massive misconception that keeps getting repeated. No light meter has ever asked what size the sensor or film is... Shooting on 35mm or medium format, the exposure settings are the same. If ISO 400 - F/4 - SS/1000 is the correct exposure it is the correct exposure regardless of Sensor size (It does not mean the quality of images will be the same, regardless of sensor size) If a bigger Sensor let in more light the exposure settings would change It is true that Larger sensor cameras generally have better low light performance (although is less than a stop between sensor sizes in most cases, APSC - Full frame - Medium Format) this is Not because they let more light in - it is down to a number of factors, Pixel size being one (a 24MP Full frame camera has bigger pixels than a 24MP Crop camera) the Signal to noise ratio being another, The processor is another and how it amplifies the image. You will also find a modern Crop Camera will have superior performance in low light to a Full Frame camera from a previous generation... If sensor size effected light gathering this would not be true. You will also find that if you crop your full frame camera to the same FOV as your crop sensor camera (1.5x or 1.6x in the canon world) the noise levels will appear almost the same (if cameras have equally capable sensors) however you may find that the more expensive full frame camera has less detail if you are throwing away 33% of your pixels if your full frame and apsc have same number of base MP (e.g. 24MP). Best way to think about it is on a per pixel level not on sensor size and how that effects noise at a given ISO, not bigger sensors capture more light... which is just not true

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for picking that up, I got that explanation wrong and will remember for future, I have removed that part of the video which should update. I logically understand the pixel size light gathering but didnt do enough research clearly. Cheers, Duade

@9Mtikcus 11 ай бұрын

@@Duade No problem :) I love your channel, keep up the good work, you do sort of explain it right just the part about Bigger sensors capture more light/let in more light.... It is not easy to explain, I guess "In general, cameras of the same generation with a larger sensor produce an image that has approximately one stop less noise due to benefits such as larger pixel sizes, when comparing Full Frame to APS-C" - I think that would be a fair statement

@nordic5490 11 ай бұрын

What you will find when Duade and others talk about larger sensors gathering more light is short hand for an overall effect. From a practical point of view, astro photographers prefer larger sensors - and light vs resolution is the reason. One way to explain this is as below. Pixels can be summed, either in camera or in post to effectively make larger pixels. I also use that technique for iso 25600 and above on my R5. Eg, on my R5 45Mpix, at high iso, I sum the neighbouring pixels to make a final image size of approx 7MP. These 4x larger 'pixels' average the noise out, giving with the effect of using actual larger pixels, with the coressponding effective lower noise at a given iso. You can also do this in camera. The reason Canon's premier professional camera, the R3 has only 24Mpix is, sports togs often supply their images in real time, jpegs straight out of camera to their customer, and do have the time to denoise in post. The larger pixels a 24Mp sensor has is a happy practical balance between noise and resolution. Larger pixels for a given sensor size = lower resolution. A smaller m43 (1/4 area) sensor, with the same 24Mp will have 1/4 sized pixels and perform 2 stops worse in a given light level. That 2 stop penalty could easily make the difference between a money or not. Thus, you can see a ff sensor, for the same Mp count as a m43 sensor (1/4 the area) will have approx 4x larger pixels, with the corresponding 2stop noise advantage over a m43 sensor. In the real world, sensor size matters. Bigger sensor = bigger pixels for the same Mp count = lower noise. And, for a given generation, for the same pixel size, all manufacturers noise perfromance is about the same. Note, for astro shooting, sensor electronic noise can be a secondary issue to, essentially lack of photons. Even if your sensor had infinitely good high iso performance, short shutter astro of deep sky dim objects, will likely give poor results. Think of a lawn sprinkler and a bunch of plast cups on your lawn. After only 10 seconds there is a wildly different amount of water in each cup. After 2minutes, the cups all hold a similar amount. Same with very distant photons, dim objects may require 2mins or longer of imgaging to gather a nice even spread of photons. When Duade and others say 'a larger sensor has better high iso performance' what they are saying is essentially correct, it is just shorthand for the longer explaination.

@stevepritchard3970 11 ай бұрын

Great to see the 40D topping the chart - oh, hang on...

@philipfoster7269 11 ай бұрын

Hello Duade. Thanks for another cracking video. I am based in the UK and very often just have to deal with whatever light I'm given. No bother but I use DXO-PR2. I know that you sometimes use it as well but just lately I have been struggling with it and getting a lot of garbled and corrupted results, especially if I try to use Deep Prime. I wondered if anybody else had been experiencing this. Have you had any trouble with it recently?

@crapicantavoid 11 ай бұрын

Check if you are using the gpu that your drivers are up to date

@todspencer3797 11 ай бұрын

I use Topaz routinely for virtually all images of the sharp keepers. I’ve even used noise reduction software on night photography of wildlife, where I was using a dodgy old torch, with no flash, as my only light source, iso 25600 with 1/100 ss on my old crop dslr and the image was still pretty good!😂

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Great to hear Tod, it really is incredible, Cheers, Duade

@Twobarpsi 11 ай бұрын

Question...do you notice noise more on a monitor, or is it less noticeable when the picture is printed? I find noisey pictures on the monitor, are not noisey when printed!

@greenmedic88 11 ай бұрын

Noise is even simpler: signal gain. Increasing or boosting the gain of an electronic signal introduces signal noise. Hiss in audio, grain/artifacts in visual. As signal processors and image sensors improve with time, they introduce less signal noise when signal boosting, in addition to being more sensitive to signals (ie. light) along with the capacity to boost signals higher. The likely reason why all digital photographers who have been in the field for long enough, having used earlier sensors with limited dynamic range, are so obsessed with high ISO noise, is because it has probably rendered a lot of images taken over the years basically unusable. I am guilty of this. I value high aperture lenses. I like to shoot at lowest ISO whenever possible, to the degree that I often take lesser photos by limiting depth of field shooting wider than is optimal. Not the best habit. I've just started using AI sharpen tools, and I have a pretty good sense that they will likely get me to change 20 years worth of habits, when the situation calls for it. I suppose the other interesting thought is any photographer with a back catalog of archived images shot on older cameras of their time, can and probably should see which of those images can be saved using AI sharpen tools. Probably quite a lot.

@noeska46nu 11 ай бұрын

Great explaining about noise in pictures. I found another point in noise in pictures. when opening a raw picture from my canon R6 in Lightroom without anything changing i get a little bit more noise in the picture then when i first open it in caon DPP (olso without anything chaging). It looks like adobe Lightroom ads i litlle amount of noise to it. so if a have a noisy piture, i first open it in Canon DPP, export it in ass a .TIFF file a then open it in lightroom. i'm not doing it for all my raw files because it's time consuming and not all pictures have a lot of noise. i checkt the setting in Canon DPP if there is any noise reduction standard on, but i could not find it.

@wellingtoncrescent2480 11 ай бұрын

I prefer to use DXO Photolab over Pure Raw, since it offers both denoising and more conventional image processing in a smooth workflow. I get the sense that most people are using Pure Raw as a plug-in to Light Room.

@Rooster0529 11 ай бұрын

Definitely something to think about. I love a good challenge.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Todd, good luck, Cheers, Duade

@Rooster0529 11 ай бұрын

@@Duade I just got back from an Alaskan cruise and got some shots of which I never thought I was capable. You get lots of credit for that. Thank you.

@19ab59 2 ай бұрын

Hi Duade, about the photo with the Pink Robin....didn't you use a flash on that one? Thought I saw that in your vid about buying regrets? Or am I wrong?

@just_eirik 11 ай бұрын

Towards the end of the video you zoomed in on a dark spot in the background of one of your photos to show that there is more noise there. I feel like that is the perfect demonstration of how the amount of light is what affects the noise and not the ISO. It’s all about signal to noise ratio, right? I just started taking photos of birds more seriously, and I love the denoise tool in Lr. Without it some of my keepers would not have been keepers. Btw, can I ask you a question, how do you feel about getting close to birds as they fly in and out of a bird house? I did that to get some photos as I was only using a 90mm lens on a crop camera. Got some nice shots I think, but I did have to be a bit close. At one point the birds seemed to get angry at me and landed in a nearby tree and “yelled” at me. I backed away and they resumed their normal behavior. But even at the distance where they resumed what they were doing, should I maybe not have been even that close? What do you think about that?

@martinhommel9967 11 ай бұрын

Isn't the "pixel size" the determining factor rather than the sensor size?

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Martin, yes, I got that wrong re sensor size, the size of the pixels is very important. Cheers, Duade

@matthewbell1968 10 ай бұрын

Blimey Duade as an r7 owner that chart is pretty damning, it's one of the worst out there! I'm not totally surprised as I don't like going above 1600 iso and guess that all these 'i shoot at 12800iso', 'you can shoot in the dark' stories are done with help from Topaz or Dxo! Have you any idea where the R8 would be in that list? Both Wild Alaska and the Fro rate it very, very highly especially for its AF. Keep the excellent videos coming thanks 👍👍🇬🇧

@chriskattan 4 ай бұрын

It's interesting to see that your most commonly-used ISO values on the R7 are lower than on the R5. Is this a conscious effort on your part to reduce noise, or perhaps a consequence of not needing to use a teleconverter to achieve a similar focal length?

@MrTmiket0007 11 ай бұрын

Thanks so much for sharing another wonderful video like always

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

My pleasure Miguel, Cheers, DUade

@przybylskipawel 11 ай бұрын

Canon APS-C is actually 22.3x14.9mm

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Pawel, my mistake, Cheers, Duade

@Rooster0529 11 ай бұрын

Unrelated to this video but…do you leave your camera on while sitting and waiting or do you turn it on and off? I like it left on and half press the shutter often to keep it awake. I’ve not had an issue with running out of battery power but I did buy a battery grip that holds 2 batteries for my Canon t4i. I also keep 2 extra batteries charged in my bag. Just wondering what you or others do and WHY you do it. Thank you.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

G'day Todd, I am the same as you, I leave it on as I don't want to miss the action, I can always change the battery if needed. Cheers, Duade

@drprince8766 11 ай бұрын

How do you take care of your camera gear and lenses. Would appreciate if you shed some light on that.

@Earthling78 11 ай бұрын

These software programs has been a gamechanger with budget gear. However, I am not sure whether to denoise the entire scene or only the background and "spare" the motive, since denoising can cause loss of detail and make the motive a bit cartoonish.

@dimitristsagdis7340 11 ай бұрын

How far in the ISO range would you push the R5?

@harrison00xXx 11 ай бұрын

What do you think about DxO Pure Raw 3? I tried the test version and compared results from version 2, and yes they are in very rare (unusable noise!) cases slightly better, at least less "painting like" looking when using AI mode, but in general these are anyways the even from Version 3 pretty "unusable" results and anything DxO can handle (V2 and 3) is very similar in my opinion. In fact some results even vary a bit with the same software and setting when using AI mode so comparison is also very hard Except for the faster processing speed and in rare cases very very bad noise i see advantages in the newer version, but i prefer the UI of version 2 somehow (similar to Topaz Video Enhance AI vs the newer and worse Video AI)

@janvanroekel6787 11 ай бұрын

I have Sony a7r3 and 35mm f1.8 and the kit lens 28-70mm.... i took low light images with same shutter speed, same iso and same aperture f4. All at 35mm..... Full frame.... The kit lens had much more noise as the prime lens..... Could you please explain this.... thx. JvR.

@Convergence33 11 ай бұрын

Yay

@Hummingbirder1 11 ай бұрын

(Now to something completely different: does the noise-reduction sowftware work on jpg-photos?)

@lachlangraham1062 11 ай бұрын

Yes it does.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

I'll be honest that I have never tried myself, just had a play and it appears Topaz Denoise is the only one that works with jpg, DXO Pure RAW and Lightroom needs raw files by the looks. Maybe try Topaz trial and have a play. Cheers, Duade

@0515KHR 11 ай бұрын

I think the example you shown at 1:03 is a not a good comparison. Reason being the left image was not properly exposed and taken at a different time of the day. -It was pushed 5 stops in post , correct iso would have been around iso3200 which obviously produce more noise A fair comparison would be 2 shots taken with same lighting conditions and exposed correctly - one taken at iso100 vs one taken at iso6400. (good lighting) - one taken at iso100 vs one taken at iso6400. (bad lighting) i will then suggest comparing the image taken at good lighting iso100 vs bad lighting iso100 (CORRECTLY EXPOSED). you can do that for the ones taken at iso6400 too... My conclusion: High iso does produces more noise especially in low light conditions

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks, yes, your suggestion would have been interesting and would have shown as you say the higher ISO number would result in more amplification of the light recieved. This would indicate a lack of light meaning the sensor will create noise. There is no dispute that when using a higher ISO the camera is lacking light and creates noise. I think the key is knowing that the light value, sensor and how dark or bright the scene is has a large impact on the noise. Cheers, Duade

@michaelktori5178 11 ай бұрын

I made a shot ( R6) of an Eastern Yellow Robin at ISO 10,000 that cleaned up nicely. Bonkers! We would never have believed this possible.

@ladyethyme 11 ай бұрын

Hello Duade! I’d love to join your channel membership but there’s no join button? Are you still having/using memberships??

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

G'day, looks like you figured it out, welcome and I appreciate it, Cheers, Duade

@ladyethyme 11 ай бұрын

@@Duade I did!!! But I had to follow the link in your description in one of your videos! There is NO join button on the video page or your main page! I thought I’d tell you in case someone else has trouble!

@joeret2896 11 ай бұрын

Hi Duade, if you got time I sent you a photo i captured of a juvenile northern cardinal using the om1 shot at iso 12.8k. See what you think? It’s on your instagram. Thanks for making this video!

@robguyatt9602 11 ай бұрын

I just got to say, this is the best explanation of the variables in luminance noise I've ever seen. Note I said luminance and not ISO. I got that way back. (FIGJAM) There's so many points in this vid I just wanted to jump in and make agreement with from my experience. But I held back so as not to make X dozen comments. LOL. I'll just mention a few. Shutter speed. Since going from D850 shooting mainly at 700mm F8 almost always on at least a monopod to Z9 shooting at 800 F11 and never using a mono since the change, all I can say is god bless IBS! LOL. Handheld in flight Wedgies so close 800 was at times too long at 1/100th and a Peregrine on a stick as low as 1/25th yet publishable. What was the other point? I give up. The Superb fairy wren. Out of mating plumage male or his mrs? Females have orange rings around the eye is my obs.

@bradwilliams7212 11 ай бұрын

Since I bought Topaz Photo AI my world has changed. It is an outstanding program, and so simple for to use.

@doncooper2344 11 ай бұрын

The pink robin shot is terrific. The colors are so pretty. You may have inadvertently mislead people about the use of lenses with different maximum apertures. The issue isn't "light on the sensor" it's "light on the subject". The f-number is just a ratio that tells you the flux of light. It doesn't tell you how large the aperture is or how much light is on the subject. Maybe think of it this way: If the flux is the same, and the subject occupies 1/4th of the frame with a longer lens, and 1/16th of the frame with a shorter one, the subject in the mage produced by the longer lens will have a lot more light on it and a lot less noise than the subject in the image produced by the shorter lens. IOW I you have a 100mm f/2.8 and a 400mm f/5.6, assuming the subject will fit in the frame, the subject taken with the 400mm will have less noise. You've no doubt seen how this works if you've heavily cropped a somewhat noisy image -- the subject will be quite noisy. A shortcut to figuring out which lens will be best is to just calculate the absolute size of the aperture. A 400mm f/5.6 lens has an aperture twice as large as a 100mm f/2.8 lens. FYI you should never "stop down" an m43 lens unless the maximum aperture is f/1.4 or similar. The lens will be sharper wide open than stopped down. The reason for this is that m43 lenses (1) have fewer aberrations than similar quality FF lenses; and (2) operate closer to the diffraction limit. So unless you need more DoF shoot them wide open. Another big factor is the direction of the light. Frequently more important the amount.

@Duade 11 ай бұрын

Thanks Don, that is very interesting. This makes sense if you crop the 100mm image to the same size subject as the 400mm, but I am a little confused if you get much closer to the subject with the 100mm lens, so the framing of the subject is the same. For example, you use the 100mm f/2.8 at 1/1000 ISO1600 f2.8 at 1m from the subject. You then use the 400mm f/5.6 at 1/1000 ISO6400 f5.6 at 4m from the subject. In theory the subject will be the same size in both shots, I think. Which one has more noise in that scenario? Also interesting re the M/43 the 100-400 is inconsistent at f/6.3 but sharper at f/8 in the shots that I took. I will have to do more testing on that. Cheers, Duade