Refusal to reconsider stance on taboo? In my society? It's more likely than you think.

NL makes no sense though, incest is not wrong because they are related, from a purely logical pov there really isn't anything wrong with it. The only reason it is frowned upon is evolutionary biases that prevent inbreeding. It's for the exact same reason that the situation he is talking about is frowned upon. The reason you can't logically challenge it is because you can't logically challenge incest. But he clearly think one is worse than the other which is nonsensical because the only difference is the string of proteins in you coming from the same or different people of last generation.

@@davidn9261 Bro there absolutely are logical reasons for incest being wrong. Society sets it's own baseline rules in order for a functioning society to be an actual thing, and thats where our morality comes from. If you take out human morality there is nothing "wrong" with murder, but for a prosperous society you need to establish that randomly killing someone else is wrong or you wouldn't interact with anyone. Incest is established as wrong because it leads to genetical problems due to limiting the gene pool. So as a baseline there are logical reasons why incest is wrong

@@davidn9261 Isn't that the reasoning that causes the divide? One type of incest causes undue suffering by having a much higher likelihood to produce genetic deformities in children. I don't follow how his position is completely illogical. One tends to cause deformed children, one doesn't. Even if you believe this doesn't matter, it wouldn't really be objective to suppose there's no difference. There's an observable difference.

@@davidn9261imo problem is that it’s hard to establish consent. since they’re 2 people that have grown up around each other their whole life it’s impossible to gauge whether the consent is groomed or “legitimate” if that is even possible with such a relationship

They do be having that machismo chin

+ freaking 2

I must have missed a recent bit... Explain

@@obnoxiouspedant Dough Boy is a dog that was born from Pimpy who was inbred twice and from Bape who was inbred three times. So 2X Pimpy 3X Bape.

@@CtrlCthenV aah, thank you, thst was enlightening

I wish I could save this comment as a screenshot in my head

Librarian, pull up all his outrageous food takes (spoilers: it's all of them)

librarian really deserves a major award for that one

Can we get a compilation of this? Seriously lmao

3:20

jarvis, i mean librarian, pull that up for me

Bro you are being weird (+2)

+/-/×/÷2

"This article is in the 99th percentile (ranked 652nd) of the 170,323 tracked articles of a similar age in all journals and the 97th percentile (ranked 9th) of the 435 tracked articles of a similar age in Nature" Insane

@@Neotenico pretty sure there's a number of high profile Lieberman papers, I'd imagine it's half because of that, and half because it's genuinely a good question

that would be so funny

The PlayStation can produce mind-boggling effects

like the dude who was restreaming a pay per view mma fight and mashing a controller on webcam to pretend it was a game

Dude, same. Took me a second for my eyes to focus and I was like oh damn this isn't a video.

Old reliable, that and the “only read the most absurd responses in chat so as to tar and feather your opponents” 😂

@@1031Sonic This bit is honestly my top NL moment of all time. Holy shit 😂

@@1031Sonic what's not absurd take about it?

@@1031Sonic we love a good strawman

To be fair he's probably right because nobody was capable of coming up a real argument other than "thats just the way it is".

I would agree but I can't find a good response though

@@nonpondo_ I think the best one is at the end about how a break up could basically destroy your family. Also there are always power dynamics between siblings, regardless of age, which can cause problems. But if they became step siblings as adults for whatever reason, I don't think there's any issue really.

​@Ragnell123 i would suggest that power dynamics are dangerous territory but not intrisically wrong. There are lots of relationships where there are power imbalances: breadwinner/home maker, older/younger, local/immigrant, able/disabled, even (to varying extents based on personality/culture) man/woman. These increase the potential for abuse, but are not intrinsically wrong unto themselves, ykno?

​@@tsawy6sure but some power dynamics are just worse than others. that's why you see some power dynamics shamed and others are shrugged off. familial power dynamics are one of them.

​@@tsawy6i mean no it's not intrinsically wrong but basically nothing is. so i personally just feel like eh, not really a good argument

I was so invested, like that's such a fantastic argument on society and a good indictment of why he is seen as different to other streamers in the same space, I mean I knew where he was going with it but it still captivated me

THATS WHY HES DIFFERENT he ain't afraid to speak hush mind

Most animals do not evolve to avoid incest, so it's unlikely that it's an evolutionary thing. It's probably a societal thing.

i think the only "logical" argument is if they break up it fucks the family up

@@tamhuy10 Yeah, the otherizing effect it will have on the rest of the family will make family gathering a lil to a lot awkward even if everything goes well. If things don't go well you have all the drama of a divorced family with the additional taboo. The innate feeling chat is showing is that they don't want to be seen or see family as possible romantic interests, they want family to have an unconditional and friendly love otherwise they have nobody to give them that family support.

@@tamhuy10 That's true. Having an ex is already hard enough without having to see them every time the family gets together for the holidays. Still, that's less of an "incest is bad" thing and more of an unavoidable complication. Kinda like it could break up the family if the parents are overbearing and say "If you don't go into this career, we're disowning you." Pursuing their dreams outside their parent's visions might fuck with family relations, but that doesn't mean following the railroad they set is the most logical choice.

@@littlemonztergaming8665 I haven't seen the movie in awhile so go easy, but doesn't one of the siblings want to end themselves because they can't live without being with the other romantically? Wouldn't the awkward family reunions be a much better resolution than just losing a loved one?

“you’re all actually agreeing with me” maxxing

destiny if he was good

so true

Cant wait for the coconut island arc, not looking forward to the words in private arc

I hope not I don't want NL to be racist.

Yeah but like.... the parents went across town so step-siblings could go across the hall.

This is why he's lasted this long, he's no fence sitter and he's willing to fistfuck the turkey to serve a great dinner

there might not be anyone touching that dish, but by god is he cooking

This is not right at all, the only half decent point he responded to was emotional incest and his argument was "I don't think we're ready for that in 2024". If they were raised as siblings it's weird, if they were like 15 when they met it's fine.

@@Vulture_King BUT WHY? WHY IS HE NOT RIGHT? WHAT'S YOUR POINT? WHY IS IT WEIRD IF THEY WERE RAISED AS SIBLINGS? GIVE US AN ARGUMENT. Why would it be "like 15"? What's "like" 15? Is it actually 15 or around it? When does it become ok and why 15? Why not 18? Why not 12? Why not 16? Why is it ok at all even if they grew up separately? Go ahead. The world needs to know why Richie Tenenbaum is doing something wrong! Back up what you say with reason, or else why say it at all?

I think a lot of his points about people arguing poorly and distinctions between different types of arguments and their relative objectiveness are quite good. Also good on him to respond to the weirdness of potential divorces. It's a good faith discussion.

Tbh even if it is, it's just such a fucking can of worms, you better just not do it.

Literally the exact same situation, sure, it''ll be frowned upon, but as long as you're not actually hurting anyone then fuck it go for it.

In that case I think the potential problematic power dynamic becomes more of a focus.

Hot take, if you’re against incest because it would produce deformed children you support eugenics

@@PinkFlyingNarwhalwhat power dynamic? The only answer is to protect young men but I know that would never be your objective so what are you talking about? Regardless if you’re at the point morally where you think the only issue with incest is “the power dynamic” then and I am sorry brother it’s over.

That’s hilarious

Fwiw I’m so sorry you had to go through that.

I was trying to understand why that take was bothering me as well without delving into my own situation and trying to describe it properly and you nailed it so thank you. I don't like "well technically" discussions like this that try and argue why it's ok, but they're born of the "cause it's just yucky!!" thing. it completely ignores why these situations are dangerous and traumatizing and just kneejerk going "ew gross," also makes isolation worse for the people who've been subject to it. I think it's a good conversation to try and talk through because it gives a better avenue for identifying and healing abuse and also like. educating on the factors within. if that makes sense. sorry you've been through that also 🙏

I agree.

Ye my mom dated a guy with kids in their 20s when I was also in my 20s. The hypothetical crossed my mind a few times and ultimately I figured that it wouldn't be too weird if it happened since we were adults when we met each other. His daughter was not remotely my type though and they ended up breaking up anyways lol

I mean, if you think it gets weaker the later in life they become step siblings it's because you understand that the more familiar relation it is the worse it is, meaning that he is wrong. In the end this is all about the environment, there is a expectation of no romantic relations in a familiar environment, breaking this expectation is negative because people don't want to worry about romantic interest from their family members, just like people don't want to worry about romantic interest from their doctor.

@@danielsan901998 If an argument goes from weak to even weaker doesn't mean it was a good argument brother. I agree I think I'd find it weird if they'd been step siblings for 20 years but that doesn't make it wrong. It's completely taking away the main issue with incest being the possibility of passing down regressive genes is much higher which causes cumulative problems for every generation that participates. Which is exactly what NL is saying.

@@TenaciousDealer That's like saying that stealing less valuable things makes the argument against stealing weaker, you are ignoring the main issue being the familiar relationship.

For morality to function, we do need to assume some things are just objectively true on a base level, it's just that the idea of "having a sexual/romantic relationship with someone you're related to" doesn't strictly violate any of those base assumptions

@@TheThunderbirdRising morality doesn't function, the human psyche is entirely arbitrary and abstract. morality isn't thermodynamics, the standard model of physics the one and only closest thing we have to objective anything and it doesn't include morality particles. that doesn't mean "nothing matters, be cruel all the time" it just means that it's relative and infinitely more complex than anyone in a modernist epistemology wants to entertain

@@entropymanufacturing it's not that they're literally physically true, but we need to act as though they are in order for anyone to come to any agreement on a moral framework

@@TheThunderbirdRising i see what you mean, however any approach to morality that isn't relative to the desires and needs of everyone currently participating (minimising negative emotions and maximising consciousness to put it bluntly) and instead basing it on a fixed consensus unavoidably, or rather, by design, causes morality to be manufactured, and thus leaves gap in consensus. this process dehumanises and shoves the very real people in society considered edge cases of philosophical thought experiments off that proverbial/real edge and constructs stratums of people that are considered ontologically problematic. im not arguing with you or calling you a moron or whatever, i replied mostly to serve as decent reading for you and those here that had their curiosity piqued and i'm not interested in replying extensively and oversimplifying several lifetimes worth of intellectual development on large philosophical political fields. if you want a long summary: any narrative of morality that is not relativistic fails to meet its own proposed idea of "good morals" because it makes enormous sacrifices in favour of "stability". that notion of stability is a construct and a radioactive structural artifact of liberal democracy, which favours, in tandem, both fascist and capitalist ideology and class structure. if you're in any way part of a marginalised demographic it should at this point be obvious why moral (and policy) centrism isn't conducive to a happy and healthy life when the opposing positions are "all of us live" vs "all of us are deliberately killed", e.g, a position between "morality is objective" and "morality is relative" fails to satisfy either position yet is more harmful to the vulnerable. if you want to know more, read deleuze, adorno, horkheimer, foucault, etc. i'll acknowledge i've written written far too much to be socially acceptable now but i wanted to be more honest and informative than a rude dismissive joke followed by a skull emoji considering it's a topic i'm versed in that people should honestly know a lot more about, have a nice day

@@entropymanufacturing @entropymanufacturing I'm not talking about hard coding the entire moral structure, I'm talking about a handful of basic precepts that must be true in order to construct the rest of the moral code relative to its context. Like, the trolley problem doesn't work without the presumption that saving lives is inherently worthwhile. There needs to be a baseline to even begin having the types of discussions you are talking about

Hes asking an uncomfortable question but isnt illogical.

like 80% of people over the age of 70 are married to someone they're related to, it's always been a thing that happens but people just don't talk about it

@@kaffe5163 100% of people who are married are married to someone they are related to.

​@@kaffe5163Yeah but usually in those circumstances it's not people you grew up with, just a cousin from the neighbouring town or village or whatever. It's way more weird and questionable to be having sex with someone that you were raised with as siblings, regardless of the blood relation.

Domestic Girlfriend IRL what the fuck

Doesnt help that the average chatter has the same literacy as a genshin player

+2

Me at the company picnic with my spoon and jar of buttered mayonnaise be like:

I kind of disagree with your point on "it’s neither objectively good or bad". To me there is definitely an objective quality to storytelling but that also says little about my enjoyment of the story. It can be both fun and bad and it can be both really good and totally not enjoyable at the same time. It's just important to separate enjoyment from quality. I am often a bit annoyed by the system of user ratings because it's made it too easy to conflate enjoyment and quality.

It’s so refreshing to see someone who knows basic philosophy in this comment section

@@anoukk_ Music, videogames and film all have standards for why they can be objectively good or bad. The problem is that people often conflate *their own opinion* of that media as being the same thing as the objective standard, and quite often it's not. From our individual perceptions, I'd back-of-the-napkin that our stated tastes tend to be 75% personal opinion and 25% objective when we critique things. Some people are better at it than others (that's why the profession of critic exists after all) but for most people it's very difficult to separate the subjective from the objective. That's the point I think OP was trying to make, as a tangent from talking about mistaking the Ick for a moral evil.

it would also make him too empowered to say insane stuff. We gotta keep the Egg Despot in check

He put out hundreds of Isaac episodes without chat, he doesn't need the banter module fed, it's gone, he spent it

He also only picks bad responses. But it's massively entertaining. I can't blame him

@@B2Roland looking for bad responses in NL's chat isn't exactly a needle in a haystack situation

Lmao

George W Bwuh??

10:26?

thats just saying "I dont want a relationship with my stepsibling because it makes me feel weird" not "here is a reason why it is bad" he is absolutely correct in that there is nothing wrong, its just the majority of people have actual biological siblings and to them the question is always tainted but they refuse to accept that they have a unreasonable bias (as in to say the bias is unreasonably used as justification)

@l0cr260 8:22 I think. "What's the reason it's not done? You can say cuz the vibes are off. That's fine, I'll accept that. Because it's weird? Ok, but why is it weird?"

i mean he explained why "vibes off" and "is weird" is different: because "vibes" implies some sort of emotional incompatibility, while "weird" is just saying "society says so" which is not a good argument

I think you mean relationship dynamic or family dynamic.

@@walterwhite468 No, because what I said there gives power to one or both members of the relationship. Since the relationship intrinsically makes it harder to say no/leave somebody, you have more power over your partner than you normally should. Which people are likely to exploit intentionally or otherwise.

Thats an argument for skewed power dynamics being bad, not against the situation itself inherently being immoral, because the situation doesn't necessarily require skewed power dynamics to exist.

@@billy_bat9754 power dynamics is a weak argument. every relation has some sort of power dynamics. someone always get's more wage etc etc

Nah no way, if they grew up together from an early age that has so much room for abuse and bad dynamics. Two adults who just happen to be step siblings though is no issue of course

​@@drewpeacock9087idk man, marriages do that shit anyway

@@drewpeacock9087 so does every single relationship?

I hope his wife leaves him because men like this will probably assault their daughters. I lost all respect for him

Do you actually believe that any ethical code is as valid as any other one?

@@rowan4327 I think theres no meaningful sense in which i can argue my code vs someone who genuinely, consistently and deeply believes a different one. This doesnt prevent me from adhering to mine very strongly

​@@tsawy6but if you were to be against incest because it's icky you'd need to be against a bunch of other stuff to be consistent, wouldn't you?

@@rowan4327 what is this insane argument technique? Who on earth "needs" to be 100% consistent, and even if you did incest is so far removed from most of life I don't actually see what else I need to support/fight because I find incest way too icky

@@titaniumant1282 the original commenter said that all ethical codes that are "genuinely, *consistently*, and deeply believed" are equally valid. I am engaging with the original commenter's argument I would agree with you that most people don't bother making sure their moral systems are internally consistent, but I would say that this is a flaw with their systems. A good moral system should be able to properly address hypothetical events, even if they are unlikely IMO.

How about beastiality?

The main way we instinctually avoid biological incest is by avoiding social incest. In other words, when two stepsiblings enters a sexual relationship, it means that their anti incest instincs aren't working correctly and I think that's the bad vibes that chat couldn't spell out.

you didn't need to admit to enjoying incest yuri on the internet tbh

​@@TheGlassgubbenit definitely isn't just the blood relationship that gives us the ick. If you grow up with someone AS YOUR SIBLING regardless of your actual blood relationship, it's weird as fuck to want to have sex with them.

​@@B2Roland why tho? "It's weird" is no argument. And this comes from someone with a biological sister who I would NEVER do anything with, in case you think this is just the only child take

CEO of analogy

Best analogy since "you are the center of a protractor"

Most stepsiblings are simply not inclined to hook up with each other. But what if they are?

They're not related, why the ban on having kids?

If they were raised as siblings then it is absolutely weird. Who cares if you're "technically" not related when everybody else views it as two siblings fucking eachother (including their parents probably).

@@Vulture_King the whole point of incest is it has to be related so its not incest.

@@Greenhawk4 Ok John Oxford if you use more than 3 brain cells and actually read the comment you'll see that my reply doesn't say incest anywhere and neither does the original comment

@@Vulture_King it’s literally what you are taking about and what this video is about.

maybe, but he's not wrong. he's simply describing how we function as a social species, and generally he is correct-most people don't critically analyze their behavior or reasoning and simply go with the flow of what's socially acceptable or the norm, and that's natural. but when we have a good upbringing and education, and engage our neocortices which make us human, we can assess whether the actual logic behind our reasoning is sound or not. but not many have that privilege for a multitude of reasons, so the majority will be unaware of the extent of our herd behavior.

​@@denks7849 Hrm? Need think more about feelings? Hmmm... NO. You dumb. I smart.

@denks7849 the majority are also not autistic

@@denks7849 Mb I should have mentioned that I am also autistic and find this very relatable. It's how I picked up on it.

is that not the same thing? they aren't related so you would still really just call her a step sister.

@@Greenhawk4stepfamily is created when two people marry of which at least one has a child, the non-birth family becomes stepfamily. If both people are parents through a previous relationship, their children can be legally adopted by the stepparent, at which point they become adopted stepchildren. This is not the case in The Royal Tenenbaums. Margot is adopted by Royal and Etheline Tenenbaum, who are Chas and Richie’s biological parents. Margot is solely adopted into the Tenenbaum family. Edit: after Henry and Etheline marry, they and all the kids, Chas, Richie, Margot and Walter(Henry’s son from his first marriage), become stepfamily of their new family.

@@janman potato pototo

Kinda what I’m thinking, I don’t know why put 16-17 seems like the cutoff, any younger and it adds an icky factor.

i think you have issues if you think incest is a tame topic

by that logic a teenager shouldnt date anyone they go to school with

@@tgirltouhou Teenagers get to go home, away from the person they are dating/are awkward with. Slash, they aren't forced to interact and when they are the problem persists

There is definetly some psychological thing inside of most peoples brains at least that just makes the thought of a relationship like that really weird, most likely to prevent possible further biological issues to keep the species alive. It can definetly lessen depending on your relationship with your own family, if you have other siblings of a different gender etc, but the thought of someone being in a relationship like that is already baseline weird for most people. You can also definetly internally/subconsciously see childhood friends etc in a similar vein to family or not, but you are still not in the same home every day so there is a psychological like line there already due to circumstances. Step-siblings is like weird by association. As NL said, the vibes are off, but it really depends depending on like the circumstances of when they became related by law. The younger you are the easier the familial assocation grows in your head and it becomes a taboo for you.

it's gut-level instinctual ick (that has been socially reinforced for generations). It's like how kids just don't like vegetables until they get a taste for them, because eating random plants got our ancestors taken off the life registry, so we're predisposed to a distaste for it. If your brain registers two people as "family" it's not actually running the math on whether or not they could or would have kids together, it just knows "family romance bad"

@@zakki9491 so basically people gaslit themselves on two different levels

@@mityakiselev if you wanna go the "nothing really matters" route then sure

I am pretty sure most people consider it to be: related by blood and/or raised together.

Three hats chatter had a point. It is immoral to wear three hats.

@@echiko4932 TF2 gamers hurriedly deleting their Towering Pillar of Hats in response to this statement

they would NEVER interact but genuinely their thought processes are very similiar

​@@maxcleghorn i couldn't explain to you why but you are very wrong

@@TheMasterMakarovinteresting I think they would agree on a lot

NL is not a pedophile so no

@@kingjonc im mean yeah destiny still fancies himself a progressiv right ? but their thought patterns to me seem almost diametrically opposed but thats just vibes

in the movie shes adopted, for reference

You'll have visit three households, unless there's some kind of spouse-swap scenario

@@wendelhaha1 Wait this is WAY weirder what the fuck, I was on NL's side

@@sehguhnai8223 How is it in any way weirder?

In what way can the power dynamics be expressed? Would it be just as bad if the “sibling” was a foster kid and both “siblings” fully recognized this and never developed a true sibling relationship?

A professor dating a student is obviously not avoid idea because the professor grades the papers the student needs good grades on to graduate. I see no such obvious and absolute power difference between siblings

Which is the exact reason it should be frowned upon, I don’t want people drunk driving just cause some are fine to do it. Same applies to incest, you add genetic problems on top of that and the inherent social and biological mechanisms our brain has against it and I don’t get why anyone is in favor of it.

i honestly cant think of a good doujin off the top of my head, watch oreimo or smth lolll

​@@TheLibraryofLetourneauAlternatively, Engage with "The Coffin of Andy and Leyley" that's managed the monumental task taking the mantle from Oreimo as the Incest dogwhistle these days

wdym lolll is this a joke to you

@@xxvmvxx 121601

@@TheLibraryofLetourneauoreimo isn’t incest until like the last 4 episodes and we hate it for that

How much higher is the abuse rates over regular relationships? All relationships can go wrong, is it just a proximity issue?

@@echiko4932 I do not have exact stats but from my cursory googlin on the subjects incestous families tend towards unhealthy realtionships mechanics awell. They are more likely to be abusive and also more likely to lead to trauma that carries over to children through the parents.

top spin 2k25, its pretty garbage though. pay-to-win out the ass for a $60 game

@@TheLibraryofLetourneau damn, that sucks. I got some virtua tennis nostalgia so this caught my eye...