Y we it struggles to go up a hill...

Believable

Oh yeah absolutely

@@swargpatel7634 wat?

Thousands upon thousands of horsepower and these struggle to get up any little incline. I feel the struggle, I'm currently playing a train sim and I had to stop at a signal. Took me almost 30min to get going after I rolled down the hill far enough to where it was less steep

Well put; even the newest evolutionary GE and EMD locos will always have issues with the elements. The grade obviously doesn't help.

Evan Weber, Believe it or not, that is not true. This is one of the reasons why trains are so efficient at carrying goods ... low rolling resistance!

Iron to iron is very good choice for low rolling resistance, and economical. But water would reduce friction a lot. Don't they have sanders onboard for this situation?

Michael Bauers from what I understand sanding is only used in dry conditions because with a lubricant the adhesion between the metal wheels sand wanted and tails combined would severely wear the rails.

One little slip of the wheels and it's knuckle time. Maybe drawhead time.

21st century technology on the drive train, 19th century on the wipers.

You ain't lying about!

They might not be smooth, but definitely reliable. I'd bet that's all the engineers would care about

Unseen primitivism!

They work off air.I imagine that air is being used in the struggle.

*Starts slipping backwards* OH FUCK I CAN'T OH FUCK I CAN'T OH FUCK I CAN'T

@@Liam40 Say that in case of ED.

I think I love it... I think I love it...

SirDeanosity I'm Ed.

Justin Newhall i dout it would help atall because the trains so heavy

really....

Snuffle upagu5 are you stupid?

Considering that a single locomotive weighs 200 tons, + how many Traincars its pulling, so yeah I dont think a person could push it

Justin Newhall m

LMFAO I know the feeling

Your a pilot like me! (I feel your pain)

lol r u a train engineer; howd u go into his train cabin...

@@nicksgarage8295 In 1959 when I was 14 and just starting high school, I used to hang around the railroad in my small home town. The engineers would give me rides and let me run the engines, since they saw I knew what I was doing. Using the brakes is the secret to safe train handling in the mountains and I studied everything I could find about the braking systems, especially how to avoid rough train handling. There were cabooses back then and the owner of the train, the conductor, rode at the back of the train. Having the conductor tell what a smooth ride he got really made my day on days I had off school and rode the train.

@@1776vtgmb so your 74 years old. congrats!!! wonder if theyd let me do that today idk...

@@nicksgarage8295 Our rifles went on the school bus with us so that we could shoot on the boy scout range after school... in upstate NY. The 1950s America I grew up in doesn't exist any more.

@@1776vtgmb Sad but true.

I love your Minecraft trains

:0

Make this remake

;-;

🚂🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃

Wet Curved Rails + slow speeds = bad results for the train - Can slip downhill and derail - Can Stall and go downhill and derail So yeah bad results

Southern p.

LordCarpenter eh I prefer the chug

If it were emd it wouldn’t have made it to the guy recoding

@@Jdaminbf4 LOL!

Are you kidding? This sounds so badass with earbuds!!

Well there was a curve before uphill which made them have to get rid of any momentum

@@jayasmrmore3687 It seemed foggy and moist. Thus that is your answer. Even with technology the slippery railhead can not be beaten easily. Wheel slip.

That is computor controlled wheel slip, NOT wheel spin.

Joe Cameron I know right. gevos sound so badass!

plug it into your car radio for surround sound

Joe Cameron instagram.com/laftmonk

Sound of weakness!

Heavy!!!

This is a rather steep grade, but I'd say this train was definitely lacking power

@@foxtrot7747 It had all the power needed. What it lacked was tractive effort.

its leaf mould he's slipping on with a damp coating on top. it's like teflon , slippy !!!!!!!!!!!!!

HP/ton Is constantly usled in many comments, but it's wrong. C. T. E. counts. If this train Had 2 AC4400CW units HP would be the same but c.t.e. much higher +steerable trucks maybe?

@Advocatus Diaboli Power doesn't mean pulling force, unless you mention the speed at which the train in moving. Power tells you how fast you can travel with a certain load, while tractive effort tells you how much you can pull, regardless of power. These two locos didn't have enough tractive effort, a more powerful engine wouldn't help.

Jeff C, indeed, because the the more power you add, the more chances you'll get wheelslip.

This is like 2% power dood lol

Yep except for the gravity part lol. Let's leave the theoretical nonsense to the space liars

@@billygribble9939 lol? how do trains exert a perpendicular force on the track then?

Weight and geometry. Balanced chassis. Proper speed. Gravity is not required.

@@billygribble9939 what is the force that applies a load to the mass that is on the wheels?

Weight.

I need one, can I take one? Even if just to borrow?

Or, if only GE made 2-stroke diesels...

yeah, air motors on the wipers. Most if not all loco wipers are air.

yes they are

I hate those air things! It should be electric! It is 21 century RR!

Yes I know air povered windshield wipers from trucks. They are never working like want, too fast or too slow, also not very reliable. Good that nowdays trucks have electric vipers. only good of those was that when broken could make rope wipers.

Freaking junk!

I would cry

I would sleep for 8 hours

@Jeff C They actually are. I work the steepest mainline grades on my Class I and I can assure you, we spend a lot of time in Throttle 8 under 1mph in adverse weather conditions.

@Jeff C the locomotives have tractive effort software that limits wheel slip and cuts individual axles out when they slip. They grind and grab and buck when they are fighting grades. It's a rough ride up in the cab when you're in 8 and they are fighting to grab the rails. You can sit in denial, but we do it constantly. You pull in 8 until forward momentum ceases. 0.1 mph is still forward momentum. When you hit 0.0mph, you give it a few minutes to fight and try to restart itself and when that fails, you put the brakes on and call the dispatcher and either wait for a shove from a helper or you have to double your train over the hill.

@Jeff C it doesn't de-rate the prime mover. It has no reason to. Your car is a direct drive system that puts power to the transmission. It cuts the horsepower of your engine because it has to cut the horsepower to the transmission to stop wheel slip.. A locomotive doesn't have a transmission. It runs a Generator, which generates AC or DC power that is then supplied to the traction motors. If it de-rated the whole prime mover, it would cut generated electricity to the whole traction motor system and you would never get anywhere. It doesn't need to do that. The High Adhesion software only cuts out the axles that are slipping. Not all 6 axles slip at once when you're pulling, or if they do, it's rare. You will see the tractive effort software effort fail sometimes and all 6 wheels will spin and throw sparks. By your logic, if the prime mover de-rated every time a wheel slipped, we would never move the train. Wheel slip occurs constantly, even just starting a train on dry track because of how heavy they are. You use a lot of sand on a trip just to keep grip on the rails. On the computer screen on the engineer side, you have a load meter that reads in KW/h. That's what the prime mover is generating, i.e. "loading" on the generator. You don't want your load meter to drop while you're pulling a heavy grade. De-rating the horsepower of the prime mover will cause it to drop, which causes reduced load on Generator, which means less power sent to the traction motors, which means less power to pull.

@Jeff C I'm sorry but you're not as smart as you think you are when it comes to rail technology. Call GE/Wabtech and have them explain it to you. You're basing your argument on the same principle as a vehicle with a mechanical transmission and the belief that every single axle is getting 4,000hp. That's not how it works. It's 4,000hp spread out over 6 axles. This is why, when you lose a traction motor, you have to reduce your load capability in tonnage by 15 or 20%. Even in adverse conditions, you reduce by 15 or 20%. If the locomotive is rated to pull 2,900 tons on a maximum of 2.5% grade, you reduce that by 15 or 20% when you have a traction motor go down or in bad weather. That's simple physics. If you have two locomotives, and you're facing a 2.5% grade somewhere on your subdivision, you're good to pull 5,800 tons. We also have axles values that are relative to power and dynamic braking capabilities. An AC4400CW has a powered and braking axle value of 9, even though it only has 6 axles. That's how strong these traction motors are. The dynamic brakes on an SD70 are so strong, they have an axle value of 11, even though they only have 6 axles. We literally have people in our company who are smarter than you, who sit around and calculate the physics and values of what we are and aren't capable of doing, run them in simulators, and find out why we stall our trains and why we have so much power we are breaking knuckles and drawheads.

@Jeff C what you're not understanding is the locomotives have software that prevents wheel slip. Software. It's a function of their Linux-based Operating System. Yes, technically, the axle does start to spin. The software detects this and literally reacts to a wheel slip condition nearly instantaneous because it is monitoring each axle. GE/Wabtech literally designed their High Adhesion software for this purpose. When it detects a wheel slip, it cuts the power to that axle. How is this so hard to understand? The nose of the locomotive is literally full of computer electronics on the right hand side that have a function DESIGNED to mitigate wheel slip. You also realize that there are sanders on the axles that are spraying sand on the rails to increase adhesion, right? For someone so smart, you're not very good at reading comprehension.

John David my thoughts exactly, I'd be using them sanders

Jaw Tooth lol

Jaw Tooth Not right here! It would stop as soon as he cut power!!!!Just. Wham!Dead stop!!!!

I think it would take all of 30 seconds to stop this one

Wooosh

😆

Daniel Kennedy I was thinking the same thing

Primitive!

Zoran Cosic Go back under your bridge, troll

Zoran Cosic Wow, how unoriginal. You're not even good at being a troll.

@@zorancosic1237 You Are primitive, many people seem to be born yesterday and want easy things. And old F units From 1940's & 1950's, was there complaints?

But not as smooth

Phillip Taylor they leave hand brake slightly on in case the train stalls so it doesn’t slide back.

@@MattsTrainArchivewhat? That can’t be a thing. It’s just adding resistance to the train while also destroying the brakes. The automatic brake would suffice.

I heard them, and said to myself, "Why dynamics going uphill? Then realized, probably just running the fans for more cooling air circulation. Was I right?

the GOOPER Cost or availability, always one of those

+brosk1s Makes sense.

Restricted by how many powered axles you can have pulling.

+george50 I didn't realize that could be restricted.

It is on NS.

2kanchoo I know right... those damn heaters are about the worst thing too they’ll put you to sleep in a matter of minutes... I used to try and set the distance counter and count out 50 foot increments to keep myself busy and do the math to try and figure out the exact speed, when you have nothing but time it’s never a waste to do something to keep yourself busy :D

Haha, yessir. Peg the amp meter and hold her there until it pulls or lets the smoke out 😂

Josh H. Lol burn the leads up... make em glow red...

2kanchoo. Yessir. Lol. I work for UP as a machinist. It’s amazing what 1500 amps do to the leads during heavy pulls. I remember a derailment I worked a few years back, where two C44-9s were used to re-rail loaded rock cars. I’ll never forget seeing the traction motor leads twist, buck, and jump when the engineer laid into the power. They looked like a snake with the head cut off. I’m not a fan of the C44’s at all, but I was surprised to see how well they pulled though.

Josh H. I know they jump around like crazy... amazing what a piece of inch and a quartor copper will do when you start putting the amps to it.... I’ve watched them steam in the middle of winter and when it’s raining and wonder what the hell the jacket is made out of that it doesn’t instantly crisp... I worked in the northeast, new castle sub

technology is keeping those dc motors from frying, that's why there are no fires!!

AC does matter ... at a given weight on wheels, and at adhesion limits, you can run the AC motor real slow without burning up the motor. The DC motor will de-rate, reducing tractive effort. AC motors have superior wheel slip at a given weight on wheels so the AC wheels will "grab" the rails more effectively than DC. In my opinion the only reason this consist is even making it up the grade is because the front unit is an AC unit. AC, advanced wheel slip, and sand are hard to beat at these slow speeds with heavy consists.

Jeff ... yes that is one of the advantages of AC. The AC will slip like DC once past creep but it wont slip much cause the rotor (wheel) can't turn faster than the stator field. A DC motor can slip (speed up) all it wants until computer de-rates it. AC creep/slip control is more "fined tuned" (responsive) compared to DC systems. Also ... at slow speed DC motors pull in more current and they heat up at slow speeds, so computer has to re-rate and back off current (torque). I bet this consist we're looking at, the front unit is at full limits of adhesion and tractive effort for wet rail while the trialing unit is de-rated and not pulling it's share. Both units are slipping but my bet is that the front unit is "digging in" more effectively (utilizing wheel creep more effectively). Dr Reason .. please chime in

Dc series motor do have brushes (commutator) which change the field direction ... you're right about the physics. It all about "magnets chasing magnets" creating torque. But a DC series motor relies on CEMF (back voltage created from rotor speed)) to keep rotor and field current in check. At low speed since rotor isn't turning fast the CEMF is low, with lower back voltage, so the motor pulls in more current ...more heat, so computer de-rates motors. Also as motor slows down there is more torque, and more tendency to slip. I disagree your comment about taking a load away from a DC series motor ... if you did the rotor would speed up and torque would decrease not increase. AC motor (induction) has no commutator ... the stator field sweeps around the rotor inducing rotor current, and rotor current causes a field that gets dragged around and almost catches up to stator field (air gap slip angle). At slow speed the inverters simply adjust the frequency and amplitude of stator voltage until rotor current stabilizes at the required torque/speed required. I'm not knocking DC systems ... their creep/slip systems are very good, it's just that AC motors are better at the game, especially at slow speeds. No brushes to burn up or copper to melt and very effective frequency/voltage control. A DC motor does not have a frequency that gets controlled .. you just have to monitor creep/slip and back off the excitation. The two units are both at the limits of their adhesion, its just that the lead AC unit operates better at the limit, and operates closer to the limit while the trailing DC unit "dances" around the limit. I bet the trailing unit is also de-rated because of current/temperature limits.

Right on.

+Jemalacane0 it wouldn't matter

You're telling me better adhesion and a lot more tractive effort would not have mattered? If both are DC, then their starting effort (which they are close to) is a combined 292,000 pounds. Three ES44ACs would have a combined starting effort of 549,000 pounds. Three SD70ACEs would have a combined starting effort of 573,000 pounds.

Not available, I would say.

Gammareign let's compare apples to apples, first of all. Both Cat and GE are claiming 200K STE for their T4 locomotives. GE rates their ES44AC and the AC60 at 188K STE, and the AC44 at 180K. Now let's talk tonnage ratings, shall we? Not one Class 1 railroad lists a higher tonnage ratings (the practical work a locomotive can do) for any EMD over its equivalent GE counterpart (70Mac vs AC44, 70Ace vs ES44AC, etc). The fact is, and has always been, the GE outpulls the EMD. I'd even argue the older models of either make out-pull their newer replacements. Out of all of them, the GE AC44's are the craziest of the hard-pulling fools.

P Kranz You're telling me that we can't use more power?!

I suppose dispatch knew that would happen. But, yeah, a couple of helpers mid train seems like I good idea. That much tension in a curve, wow.

More engines, more sanders, more speed.

gary mathews go to the beach

Matt Patt while that is true and does happen in some instances, thats not always the case. We’ll be balls deep in N8 climbing the grade and be moving at this speed quit often. All it takes is 1 pos DC motor in our consist and your lucky if you dont stall.

Bounty6Gulf I’m pretty lucky here in the NE, most of the companies here have started switching over to AC, but we still have quite a bit of DC left.

Wheel slip is not the issue. Under powered for the tonnage. I was a conductor, NS trying to save money On diesel Fuel by using less power. Went thru this all the time with Canadian Pacific, not as bad tho. They usually gave us enough units.....

@@stripervince1 You can literally see the wheels slipping...

Of course the MU cables were connected. Both units were being pegged back by the control systems to avoid frying the traction motors.

No more engines need 4 engines no doing that or it will derail

Even on the throttle they had now they were wheel slipping when it passed the bridge.

See the one above clouds bikes, thats me when i had no grammar

Pushing harder on the console will do nothing.

They were probably on N8 but if the train does not have DPU's the cars could flip, so N5 it is (I'm guessing)

It can’t go after up the hill because it physically can’t go faster. It’s just the steepness of the hill combined with the resistance of the curve, both combined with wet rails.