Wow you would be an amazing teacher. You speak so well and great with reassuring.

As a Husband/Father on the outside looking in. My wife is BSN. She began nursing later than most. Graduated ASN @ 50, Now a BSN. Currently enrolled in a MSN program. My daughter, ASN for 2 years. ASN is a favorable way to begin the career. A lot less cost. As well as ability to begin earning earlier with out a massive student load obligation. Also, with many available options to advance education. Just the perspective of a proud husband and father.

I am currently a BSN to DNP student and I chose that because I’d really love to teach at the university level in the future. I LOVE nursing and I want to be able to say that I am an expert in my field.

This MSN Vs. DNP debate reminds me of the ADN Vs. BSN Controversy 😂😂

I currently have my ADN working my first inpatient nursing job. I went to community college and paid it all out of pocket. I signed a contract in my hospital to get my BSN within 5 years, and my hospital offers to partially pay tuition. Retrospectively, this was probably the best route because I saved so much money!!!

I'm currently getting my Doctorate and god I wish I hadn't. I started as a BSN-MS/FNP student and transferred to the Doctoral program one year into the Masters program. REGRET isn't even the word to describe what I feel right now. I am burned out while spending THOUSANDS of dollars out of pocket for this for essentially no reason. I watched my classmates graduate in May while they withheld my Masters degree (if I knew they weren't going to give me my Masters I would not have transferred). So while I am able to take the ANCC/AANP board certification (so they say) I would not be certified as an FNP until 12/2023 when I receive my DNP degree. So imagine busting your a$$ for the past two years, completing all the requirements for your Masters (plus extra classes), and watching your classmates who took less classes graduate and become certified and employed and you can't. Let's not even get into how MDs are beginning to police the "Doctor" title (see Reddit), and most large institutions do not allow NPs to refer to themselves as "Dr" because "iT cOnFuSeS thE PaTiEnT." The only thing I look forward to is the ability to teach. That's it. That's all. The DNP was a waste of my mental energy and money.

At least for the ADN vs BSN, I read that lots of hospitals just want more BSNs because it increases their "magnet status" (just makes their ranking higher, for some reason). I think lots of people, including the ANCC, think that more education = a better professional, which isn't always true. Here in Hawaii, even with a BSN, most hospitals won't hire a new nurse grad unless they've had months to years of prior hospital/patient care experience (i.e CNA or some kind of technician). It's craziness out there and it's probably contributing to our national shortage of nurses!!!

This makes ABSOLUTE total sense, your thought process is the same as mine. A DNP should have more hours to specialize and practice your specialty instead of researching and leading or teaching just like a Doctor goes to school for several years to practice instead of research!

I'm a semester away from graduating with my MHA and I've always wanted to be a nurse. I told myself I wasn't smart enough, but then I realized I don't have to be the smartest I just have to put in the work. So. I'm going to apply to the nursing program.

Hi Liz! Thank you for an awesome video! Just wanted to share my experience as a current BSN to DNP student. Not all DNP programs are the same of course, but the research component is still clinically based on patient care. The research part in my specific program is actually based on my actual clinical site so I do see my patients and provide care while also addressing any clinical concerns or needs I observe at my site, through like you mentioned a “research” project. All my hours both research and clinical are with direct patient care, they are not split between seeing patients and sitting at a desk doing research because my project depends on my patients. For example, if I notice most of my patients are not seeing improvements in BP management due to language barriers I would look at what evidence based literature says can help address that issue and implement it within that population. Yes I still have a final paper/project and presentation but I feel like what your describing as far as the research aspect is more so PhD programs not the DNP. So from my experience nurses shouldn’t shy away from the DNP based on having to do research, as a DNP prepared NP you are implementing research in your practice not conducting an actual research study. I think everyone should definitely look into the programs available before “hopping” on any trains as well lol and find the ones that are best suited for their goals. Hopes this provides some insight to you all 😊

Thank you so much for this video. I am preparing to enter into an entry-level MSN program and have been debating going straight into a DNP afterward, or doing the MSN to DNP programs. You've definitely provided the core information to help me with my decision. I think I'm going to stick with just the MSN for the moment. I really appreciate your super informative videos!

Hey Liz! You made alot of valid points. I'm just completed my first semester in a BSN-DNP program. I'm attaining my DNP because I know having that as an option I would want to get it, so I'm going straight for it! I don't want to go back to school once I'm done. My program is 3yrs full time. Excited about the future!

This was soooo helpful!! Thank you!! I am a current nursing student (graduating in 2020) and am feeling a big pull to be an NP. I don’t want a DNP because I despise research (and those research clinical hours sound unbearable)! You helped me weigh my options better! Thank you!!

Love this video. With the shortage of providers in this country it is amazing how the thought even exist to create more hurdles for aspiring providers. I agree that DNP programs should be geared towards advancing the clinical practice for NP's. I feel that this is coming up and we will soon see these programs!

you would be an amazing teacher!!!!

I loved and agreed with your comments on the direction the DNP degree went. I'm SO WITH YOU. Anyhow, I'm watching this to try and make sure I'm on the right track with my MSN degree and I loved your words. I definitely believe in using our extra hours toward clinical and specialties, or a well-rounded approach including primary care + some ED skills for those of us to have the option close by to work in both arenas. Thank you!

Thank you for clearing this up!!!! I was so frustrated with all the different names and degrees. Much appreciated 🙏

Liz! Another fabulous, informed, analytic video from you! Thanks! :)

The way Liz words everything! Cracks me up. I love it!!! She’s so right.😂😂

I chose a DNP program because I want to be able to work at the collegiate level and open my own practice

This video is so helpful!!! I am barely going into my nursing program but I've been looking at NP for a while. Cleared a lot of things up. Thank you!

Totally agree with you Liz on the classes for DNP. I, too, would love to get my DNP, but I just dislike the curriculum. I do not want to pay so much money for classes I hate. I prefer more clinical based or as you said, specialize. I hope in the future they would recognize this and change the DNP classes. If that happens, I would be on board real fast to get my DNP. Currently I am an FNP student in MSN.Thank you for another great video. Hope you will have an awesome week.

Thank you for the clarity and information, this was beyond helpful!

I started a DNP program a few months ago. I should have researched the program more. I’ve completed two classes and I’ve decided to press pause and regroup. The DNP encompasses the two things I hate to do in school, research and writing😫 I was spending over 1600.00 per class and hated it. I love being an FNP but I agree that specializing may be a better option. Great video!

I’m a career changer, getting started with nursing ADN to eventually get an MSN. You really helped me identify which np-specialty to go with and what the DNP degree is like. Thank you, this was very helpful

You are just sunshine! You are an amazing mentor always presenting the benefits of the nursing model for people with a soul

I absolutely love your ideas about DNP programs! Initially when I started my NP program I was doing acute gerontology with the hopes of doing dermatology in the future. With a lot of research, I found that there are little to no standards in place for this and learning was an “in practice” environment. This means you had to find a dermatologist that was willing and able to teach you. I decided to change my major to psych because I have a heavy background in psych but still have dermatology in the back of my mind. If more schools offered specialties, it will bring so much more to the field of nursing! Hopefully more opportunities will arise as the field develops!

I love you and you're always there for me with questions I have. Thank you so much for doing what you do!!

Thank you! I’m in the process of deciding and thought I MUST be missing something, but nope. MSN here I come (God and my body/brain/family/loan options willing.. 🙏) And deciding on a school, wow. Appreciate you, didn’t think I’d find this great answer on KZfaq 😊

Currently I am a new BSN and I’m already looking a graduate school! This video was so helpful in the future I want to teach so I am leaning more towards BSN-DNP to get it done early!

Your rant is very applicable lol. Thank you, you are an advocate for the profession. I love your channel!

Love you Liz! I have been an RN 40 years. Diploma prepared like your Mom. Loved your Mom!! I have always gotten the job I want with no BSN. I realize that is hard now but don't feel more and more degrees make better nurses. Here in Ohio there is a high drop out rate for RNs who don't realize how hard the job is and are not ready to be on a hospital floor out of school. Ask your Mom-we were pretty much prepared. I do think nursing students should realize it is a hard job. I am primarily a psych nurse and if I were a few years younger I would go for Psych NP. I am working for a home health agency that specializes in psych.You are a wonderful girl!!!

Thank you for making this video!! It was very helpful -- As a new grad RN looking to do NP, this helped me out!!

I really relate to your stance on this issue! I’m only in the first semester of an MSN and I have always wanted to continue to the DNP but like you said the benefits (beyond potentially teaching) just don’t appeal to me. Another year or so wouldn’t be insurmountable later once I’m practicing as an NP down the line, that’s what I’m hoping anyway! Thanks for sharing your opinion!

Wow! Very informative. Thanks for summing it up in a nutshell.

Yessssss thank you! They need to change the DNP program! More specializations like in surgery or more clinical hours in other areas. I’m in school now for my Np and I wanted to get my DNP but I’m not a fan of research at all! We do enough in MSN.

SUCH an informative video! This helped clear up so much and really gave me some milestones to work towards.

This is helpful. I was pursuing DNP and now I’m applying for MSN 👍🏽

Omg thank you for this video!! I am on my last semester and this video answered all my questions 😍

Thank you for the video! I have been looking into this recently and the current climate of advanced practitioners in healthcare is very interesting. The shortage of both doctors and nurses (even pre-covid) is insane. I really feel that the push for NPs and PAs is to allow each doctor to stretch farther. However, by requiring more time and debt to become those things, it really loses its meaning. Less people will be willing to get the degree, and those who do will be less willing to work under a doctor (I know that varies from state to state) They are on the road to just making more doctors in different ways (MD, DO, DNP, and whatever they call a Dr. PA)

Thanks this video is so helpful!! I just graduated with my BSN and would love to be an NP. I'm leaning more towards the MSN (for now) but I won't be going back for 2 years (I need a break) so we'll see if things change by then! Lol

I am almost done with my DNP. Actually did 960 practice hours and 120 hours on my project. However, this seems to vary from program to program. I am happy with the direction I went in.

Thank you so much for posting this! I am currently finishing my RN to BSN program and I am looking at different NP programs (still trying to pick a specialty) and this was so helpful. I agree with you, I am also not interested in doing more research so I don't think I will get a DNP. However, I would consider a DNP if there was more hands on clinical hours included in the program.

Starting with MSN to get into the field but DNP is in the plan for research. I LOVE the glasses

You're so awesome! Loved your video! Thank you soo much! You made is soo much clearer!

This was so helpful! Thank you for all of your insight!

Totally agree with everything you said! I am currently in an MSN program and taking a leadership class though lol. I have small kids so I would like to enter practice as soon as possible and be a MOM! When they get older I may go back for a PhD. And I’m so sorry your teachers were mean! I absolutely have loved all my nursing school teachers from ADN-MSN. They’ve all been so supportive

YES!!!! I have the same frustration about the DNP!!! If they made the DNP more clinical or practice based (example: pharmacology, additional family medicine training, etc) rather than classes on leadership and translational research, I’d be all about it. As it currently stands, a degree that teaches me nothing more clinically, will not increase pay, and will expand my skill set on things that I won’t use (I don’t want to do leadership and don’t have the time to translate research into practice from a systems perspective) is a waste of money and takes away from my time with my family. If they change the DNP model to a truly practice based doctorate, I’ll be right there with you in class pursuing it...even if I’m in my 50s.

I’m a nursing student dually accepted into the a program at my community college and an university. So I’m technologically a bachelor level nursing student. I will be able to take my nclex after my fifth semester or third semester of straight nursing courses and will have my ADN. This is nice because I can work as a nurse while I finish my BSN.

Love your honesty!!!

Thank you so much ! I was looking online at a few of my options and I was sooo confused!

I wish there was an option for DNP in actual practice not research. Finishing my FNP next month. Thanks for the talks!

I truly think the mandate that you have to have your DNP is just a money grab for the university system. I’m in NC and the college that I was looking at for my MSN just took the requirement away for applicants to have at least a years experience as an RN for the DNP program to boost enrollment. That’s quite terrifying to me. RN experience (in my opinion) is super important as an NP. Fun fact: my grandmother became an NP a very long time ago and all it took was 10 months after her BSN! That’s equally as crazy to me haha

Hi Nurse Liz! I'm a BSN graduate and doing my research about Nursing graduate degrees. I'm loving your videos. Just subscribed!

I just saw this video and am subscribing your channel! I had my baby during my NP program as well! haha.

Absolutely, I took the route of patient care vs research. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy digging into available research to strengthen care, and safety. I agree, provide specialized DNPs in the clinical realm, and provide fellow-type certifications in those specialties.

Thanks for your insight! Keep on nursing!

School I just applied to only offers DNP - I decided to jump on it and see where this takes me - I work in diabetes education as a nurse - DNP addresses both my needs for research and education in the diabetes & endocrine fields - I must admit that MSN is truly tempting!

Liz, this was so helpful!

Giiiiirl, THANK YOU for this… I was literally sitting here going back and forth on MSN vs DNP and I I’ve been just loathing over an additional year of research. I thought it was patient clinical based but I was soooo wrong. MSN FNP I go!

omg I'm so glad I came across this.

Thank you Liz, very helpful!

LIZ!!!!! I have so many things to say. Well, firstly, I have decided I'm never going to grad school because I hate colleges with a burning firey passion, but whatever.. Anyways, I shall graduate with my BSN in May. What I DO have experience with, though, is how they force research down our throats (which, yes, great, it's important to know and they expect most of us to move on after undergrad... but my school has scared me far far FAR away from that). Anyways, so we have many classes heavily based in research, which is great, like fine I guess, but my beef is how crappy our NCLEX rates are at my specific university and I just constantly feel like we are asphyxiated on the wrong things. And when I say research based classes like I don't just mean okay EBP for ulcers, I mean like full on I wrote a 40 page research paper last semester. And, I for sure know my school can't be the only one. I also do agree with your point though of "I already know how to research".. Because thats how I feel. We've been doing it literally every single year even before the actual nursing program and we have HAD to hoan in our skills at this point to survive the program. Like we can CHILL on the research and do something productive like.. idk.. patient care? You totally may not agree with me because obviously being where you are you have a strong respect for research and the power it holds, but F! I JUST CAN'T. Anyways. Ok. Sorry this is an awful and disorganized rant. Moving on. This semester (my 3rd of 4) they took us completely out of the hospital and plopped us in the community. I know that this is a new standard for BSN nurses especially, so, I get it, but I am like really annoyed???? Like I learn everything I know about nursing by being on the floor and like yes public health could be great for some people but like..................????????? And I do think that public health is extremely important and necessary but like ... no? Am I wrong for being annoyed with that? Sorry that's probably an awful thing to say lol, but on top of our clinical hours being predominated by pop. health, we also have AN ENTIRE LECTURE ON IT. ! I just?????? Why am I so angry? Should I not be angry? Should I be happy? I'll never know. Also, I will say that my population health clinical is a disaster and we literally make power points and google docs all day meanwhile never accomplishing anything and it drives me NUTS because the whole reason I went into nursing was to NOT be a 9 to 5er doing that type of work. Okay so really here my point is that I'm def not in grad school, but like I get so angry with the way colleges go about things too? I think they do miss the mark when they change accreditation criteria like that. Like completely miss the point. And I mean, especially even with ADN vs BSN? Like literally every ADN I know in school right now is better prepared than I am.. and its because they have the clinical hours behind them! Like some days I KICK myself for not just going to a tech school. Ugh. Okay this was discombobulated and probs made no sense but I guess my point is I totally hear what you're saying and can relate in some ways even though I'm not in grad school and refuse to go. But also very sorry if anything in my rant offends anyone or yourself because thats not my intent. I have a lot of respect for those who do research or public health but that is NOT MY JAMMM. Okay sorry, I'm done now! Lol

I am not in school yet for NP but, currently researching. I totally agree with you! I would love if the MSN route or DNP route programs offered hours focused on specialty of interest (Like cardiovascular) . I know for sure I don’t want Peds, family, woman’s health etc… such a shame.

This helped a LOT

Great Video 💕...They have to redo the DNP program like you said emergency medicine would be wonderful to offer for DNP program or a specialty focus DNP program that would be a deal breaker for a lot of people

You summed up my reasons for not pursuing DNP, entirely! I am practicing in my first year as FNP, and going back for PMHNP. I am also interested in EmergencyNP, and with ANCC and AANP you do not have to go back to school to earn the ENP, and I love that!

You’re awesome!!!

Thank you, very helpful! Subscribed!

I 100% agree with you! I am not interested in additional leadership or research education. I value what I have learned in my BSN program and what I will learn in the MSN program in these areas. However, I would like a DNP program that focuses on medicine and procedure education. Something closer to a DO education would be awesome.

I’m in lpn school right now and hope to become a pmhnp, thanks for the video!

Great video. Very helpful. Thank you!!

I agree with you. I also think making the NP programs all DNP within a few years will cause less nurses to go on to be NPs because of the extra cost and time. Two years full time is hard enough when you have a family and are trying to work some, three years seems almost impossible. This whole thing will probably backfire over the long term.

This helps me so much today thank you

I remember when I started nursing school I thought ' I'm going to do the BSN program because it's the "highest" degree that I can have to practice at the bedside'.. Now when thinking of going back for my MSN, the same holds true.. ' I may as well do the DNP, since its the highest degree to have as a NP"..I REALLY just don't want the research component and I agree it's not a good use of clinical hours.. especially since I still very much want to work with people firsthand with their care. This actually has halted my decision to go back to school right now, but talking about it now is reignting the flame. There are still many programs that offer the MSN..thankfully.. and it seems mostly they are online. Liz, was your program mostly online? Did you like the way the program was structured? I think I would do better going to an actual classroom, but I could be partial since my undergrad was mostly in classroom ☺

I completely agree with you that it is very frustrating that the DNP moved towards basically being a secret PhD when the idea was to have it be a practice based degree. My only concern is that it seems to me that areas with a lot of DNP graduates they are overshadowing the MSN graduates. Where I live there are two major universities that have DNP only programs and there are a lot of graduates every year. The MSN graduates that I’ve worked with have said that they are having a hard time getting jobs because there are so many DNPs available in this market. On the flip side though, some experienced MSNs have said they have no problem and don’t feel pressured to go back to school. It really is confusing on what the best path is right now, but I’m with you, I think mostNPs are practicing so they can work in the clinical setting not research.

The biggest reason I haven't taken the plunge is the liability. Everyone is so "sue happy" these days & just can't get pass that. Any suggestions on getting past it?? Did this ever cross your mind while choosing a school or while in school?? Thank you in advance!

Whoa! This video, especially the questions at the end. I hv a oncology interview 2mrrw as a new grade, w/ 20 years Medical Assistant, but i will stay this is the first im anxious but excited. T.y

I've been on the PhD struggle bus for a while now, just to realise my true passion is nursing-so now I am applying to a ABSN program (hopefully I hear back this week) and trying to finish the last pages of my dissertation (so I guess I'll be RN, PhD in humanities one day lolol) I can fully understand going for the masters over the doctorate!! (Also research suuuucks)

great video, I agree with you more clinical hours, specialty focused, content for your practice, that absolutely makes so much more sense and would benefit more nurses. Maybe have 2 different options one that steers toward more research and the other option as you stated that would of even been more beneficial of course depending on the different programs out there. always good to research them to see what is entailed.

This was such a helpful video! I want to be a DNP but I hate research 😒

"That's what you want to waste all those hours on?!" got a chuckle out of me. What DNP programs have you found that offer additional specialization? I would have loved that. I did my DNP because I think I want to teach someday but mostly because MSN programs have been phased out. Oddly enough we do have strong RN diploma programs though. I think you've started to open the can of worms that is nursing education. Might as well go for the whole video now ;)

Hi Liz. This was very informative. I’m doing my project for Rn-Bsn class and this was great guidance. Mostly bc I do loooove research and teaching so I am strongly considering the DNP over the MSN, still conflicted over the time and money issue as you said, also my job opportunities kick in at the MSN level and having to wait for the DNP degree may hurt my job prospects. Any thoughts?

I’m considering DNP because I want to be able to not only provide high quality nursing care, but I’m very interested in someday making alternative medicine more acceptable - mainly to do the research if one way is more effective than the other. I hope to do a lot of research so that health insurances will cover these alternative medicine also.

Hi! Would you recommend getting your masters and continuing on to the DNP or is it not a bad idea to go straight from BSN to DNP?

Sooooo helpful. Thank you

I have two years of nursing school left, I hope in this time something will change. Anyway, how an international student could be accepted into a DNP/MSN program?

That’s so weird! How can you do different things in different states but having the same degree and level of knowledge?

And there is the direct entry MSN program which is the program I'm starting!!!! so ADN, BSN and MSN Direct Entry! 3 options

Hi Liz! Love your videos btw! I had a couple of questions. I know you touched upon these already but I just wanted to clarify. With the rise in DNP programs coming up, do you think there will be a good amount of MSN programs left? I just am not interested by the curriculum of the DNP degree and all the research involved and would love to just get a MSN one day. However, I’m really worried that when it’s time for me to apply, there won’t be many MSN programs to choose from. Also, do you think a nurse with a DNP degree will be hired at more jobs than a nurse with a MSN degree in the future? Thanks again for your informative videos:)

Does it take longer if you go from BSN to MSN then wait and practice then go back for your DNP? Of course I don’t mean the time spent practicing but actual school. Does it require more classes?

Thank You for this video !

Literally just finished my research paper I hate them too😂

Do you know what dnp programs use the additional 300 clinical hours to specialize? I found a great dual degree program at the university of Colorado boulder where you get your dnp and masters in Public health, which is what I want to go into.

so does this means PAs will one day be required to get a doctorate?

So now I have a question. The hospital that I work at is associated with a university that only offers the DNP program if I take that program part time it ends up being cheaper than me doing the masters program part time, but it would take me two years more so would it be worth it to go for the DNP program? I know that financially it is worth it because it is cheaper, but the time that I’d be losing when I could already be practicing for 2 years, I don’t know if that would be worth it.

Thank you so much for this video! What recommendation do you have for someone who want to be NP and already have a MSN. I have a MSN and looking into a bridge school for NP,. I want to work in acute care (ER ). How do I find which schools to apply for so that I don't have to retake courses?

Thanks for the videos. I loooooovee doing research and writing so i think its cool haha.

Question. Where did you get your glasses?!?! LOVE THEM!!

Herzing University out of Madison, WI offers specialty DNP programs. I am on the DNP-FNP track but there are several different options to choose from.