Yo Thanks! Btw you’re the winner! Congrats!!! What’s ure email? I’ll send you the Magic Racks Vol 5.

Why assume it's unique to Live?

i think ableton does 64 bit at the faders when mixing signals and keeps it at 32 bit for the signal pre fader

I like it lol

Ive heard this before lmfaoooo and it still gets me everytime 🤣

its true tho haha

🤣🤣😅💜

I know this is a joke but I saw an opening DJ redline the entire 2nd half of their set… I had to hide in the green room my ears couldn’t handle it even with earplugs

Very smart!!

I just checked Ahee's SC, mans uploaded this track at 0db...so yeah. Many other artists do the same.

@@TheJohnsofDoes I'm referring to the fact that when you upload its going add additional clipping to the audio which wasn't an intentional choice from your end.

@@Fritztafer its a choice of the producer to do that but you will have additional clipping distortion to what you chose to do with hardclippers in your daw.

In the cry some more vip breakdown he just straight up clips the song for the entire song +19dB. Also skrillex does this technique too for fuji opener

Not clipping is generally good advice for a LOT of genres, and I think writing off the advice as entirely outdated just because we're all talking about this in an EDM/Dubstep scenario. It's just the kind of thing where Dubstep and EDM, in general, have pretty much been clipping since 2010, even earlier in some examples, but that more old-school engineers would avoid this (even Ahee said, you don't want this on your downtempo tracks), even more so, most old school engineers were also recording engineers, not just mixing engineers like a lot of us here are. We aren't often recording in whole band setups live and riding the vocal, writing down our desk positions for each song, etc. We're just throwing in midi, resampling, lining up to the grid and quantizing, and because of that we can do stuff like bus mastering and mixing as we go because the workflow is so different. Ultimately it's a sound. Having the drum go into 14db and having it that punchy can be achieved without modern Dubstep limiting practices, but that overcompressed, squashed, a sound that you hear on EDM is just what we are used to hearing. I mixed a Dubstep song two different ways, one by gain staging to -18dB and then boosting volume to -0.1dB in the mastering stage, and another by using my own form of bus mastering. The lufs of the -18db gain staging was (if I remember correctly), somewhere around -14-13lufs, and the bus mastered one was -6lufs (it might've been louder). Ultimately though, once bounced and converted to whatever platform you'll listen on (whether it's a streaming platform, CD, vinyl, etc.) the "loudness" drops down to the limitation of that given platform, sometimes I've even noticed that the bus mastered track sounds better when bounced, but awful when uploaded to a streaming platform. These things need to be considered, we need to understand what form of mastering to do depending on what platform we'll be releasing on. For example, a bus-mastered CD is going to absolutely slap (and likely why Skrillex developed his style this way, because he released CDs with From First to Last before streaming became what it is), or perhaps if you're going to DJ and you want the raw file (like you have a USB of your tracks) then that'll sound sick too (again, another reason why Skrillex may have developed this unique style), but on Spotify your -6Lufs gets squashed into a flat, dead track, compared to a gain-staged track that has headroom for the punchiness to truly pierce through once it gets processed by the streaming platform. It's worth thinking about, but I agree that you don't have to worry about clipping as long as you don't hear it. There are a lot of contexts where it takes a seriously good ear to clip your music without realising that you're destroying certain aspects of your song though.

@@travisgodfrey-evans2182 I wasn't saying that you have to clip your tracks. I was rather dispelling the argument that "clipping = bad". There are also times if you do clip its done rather on individual sounds with a soft/hardclipper. There are often times where pulling a limiter is more beneficial. Its depending on the situation.

@@rebirth4119 Oh yea I get that you weren't saying that, I was just having conversation

@@travisgodfrey-evans2182 good analysis, I learnt a lot

Does that apply on the masterchannel? I know that it applies on the individual channels, but I think that the masterchannel has a built in hardclipper!?

@@SlayerDarkRaver if it was hard clipping the +12dB render would look clipped. The master channel can go over 0dB and not clip because Ableton uses 32bit playback. Rendering at 32bit also means that it’s not clipping when it goes above zero.

@@123string4 I'm still not convinced. Do you have a reference for that?

@@SlayerDarkRaver try it yourself. Export something at +12dB at 32bit then drag the wav back into your DAW. You should be able to turn down the gain of the sample and recover everything above 0. If the master had a built in hard clipper everything above 0 would be lost

I’m pretty sure you’re right. Came in to say the same thing. I also suspect that after rendering to the specifications of, say, Spotify, redlining would be an issue; given that Spotify suggests delivering audio under certain levels that are most definitely under 0dBFS.

If it sounds good, it sounds good!

@@0x44Monad agree. I am now just testing if it is gonna get destroyed when played in clubs where they apply strong volume limits

I see what you did there.. Gain knowledge haha

I do have a rant where I try to explain how ufos could work via resonating gravity waves.

where'd you take a kll bill class?

@@johnnystang41 yeah, I'd like to know too!

More people need to know this. I've seen, time and time again, especially in the subgenre of hardcore that I make in which drops are nearly always 0db, people try to make headroom for things, that simply don't need that much space. A master is only useful to make a song sound good on different soundsystems, and will not help a shit mixdown.

Me 3 !

Yeah, he also said in a recent interview with Antares that he doesn't use a limiter for his songs because the distortion is nice. He also did this in the cry some more VIP breakdown on disciple's youtube channel

@@haphaz7ard and its wild cause VR is known for having large, clean mixes

I’ve been trying to apply Baphy’s method to my tracks but haven’t quite found the sweet spot or hit the crazy LUFS everyone else seems to hit. How’re you getting your tracks like that?

@@LennonJCihak Its about controlling the dynamics. Let the kick hit 0 db and mix everything around it. I sidechain alot, not only kick - sidechain but carving out frequencies for each sound using sidechain (like Trackspacer but I use Abletons stock stuff). To control dynamics I use saturation and clipping. I'm applying clipping to almost every sound in my tracks. It doesn't have to be much, remember every db counts. I do it on individual sounds and on every group. Ive found that it's important to try and control the dynamics with saturation before clipping. Don't know which DAW you use, I use ableton so saturator is my king for saturation, but you can definitely use camelcrusher which is free. My go to presets in that is British Clean and more beef. For clipping individual sounds I use GClip, which is also free. On the bigger summing busses like all drums and pre-master I use KClip 3. Don't know if I helped you or confused you more 🤷

@@LennonJCihak yeah and I forgot to mention. I make like 2-3 tracks per week, sometimes more. So I got plenty of time to practice this. Practice makes perfect 👌

@@SlayerDarkRaver Thanks for that information! That's pretty much what I've been doing, except I haven't been saturating beforehand. I'm clipping every track and then clipping the busses. I'm wondering if I'm just pushing too much bass into everything. That could be eating up all of my dynamic range. I use FL Studio on Mac, so GClip, unfortunately, is a no-go for me. I have StandardCLIP, which I love, but I'd love to grab a copy of KClip since it's a bit more CPU friendly and apparently sounds better, according to Baphometrix.

@@LennonJCihak could be that. I set the bass to somewhere around -6 to -4 db. I use a pure sine as sub with NO processing except sidechain. You an try Free Clip from Venn Audio, I haven't used it but heard good things about it. You can also use the waveshaper in FL, or the free waveshaper from MElda productions :)

I just us fruity soft clipper or a custom wabeshape for hardclipping

Thing is though, using a clipper before the master doesn't have the same effect because the clipping element and the other elements won't interact in the same way. When you have a full track and one element clips really hard at the master it has the effect of kind of pushing everything else out of the way. It can be done tastefully to great effect especially on drums.

​@@ezrabrownstein3237 This is a super popular technique in modern metal to get snares to cut through/crack in the mix. Can probably get similar effect clipping elsewhere in your session and arranging for it, but clipping the master with the snare is a pretty straight forward example. And yes, always should be done tastefully.

@@hotzemusic interesting! Metal and EDM seem to share a lot of similar philosophies when it comes to mixing it seems.

@@ezrabrownstein3237 Could you explain the difference in which they're different? How do they clip differently?