Damn that's tough

LMAO FINALLY😂😂😂

That's what I thought! I feel like there were at least 4 episodes I missed. Nothing made sense!

remember that the first script and the first 6 episodes were scraped and they re-recorded the current 5 episodes, maybe they tried to include parts from episodes 5-6 and released it as a single episode, bc ep 5 looks very incomplete

They definitely cut an episode (or 4). The Abel Mob wants us to believe IT WAS ALWAYS 5 EPISODES! when there's clearly something missing. Where do I get my check for defending The Idol bc they can't be doing all this for free lmao

Anna Heche is in the show so something is definitely missing

I mean, by the end of episode she definitely wasn't all in. Her wanting him to leave made sense.

How would they not know when that's pretty much the point? TV viewers are weirdly trained to only want characters they can "root for". Who cares? Characters are not supposed to be friend simulations.

​@@jamk2668oh my God, stoppp that rebuttle. There are TONS of shows/movies where the main characters are AWFUL and they're still fun to watch. Gus Fring? Your defense of terrible acting and messy plot is 'You're not supposed to like them' is soooo lame and I've seen all the Abel stans saying it all over the place. It's just dumb, you can still like the villain.

@@bees.857 So, yeah, the point just soared over your head. Did you not see the OP's response? "These characters are disgusting" isn't a legitimate critique. Did you even respond to the right person because I didn't even remotely allude to his acting. I'll be the first to say he's miscast. (The acting from almost all of the other cast ranges from objectively good to great though.) The reason why you think someone like Gus is "fun to watch" is because he's essentially a comic book villain ....or the reason why the people in Succession are "fun to watch" is because there's moments where the show goes out of its way to present some empathetic moment. This show isn't concerned with that. Sure, you can like the bad guy but why is that essential? Some of the best films of all time contain characters that are all incredibly unlikeable. I'm not even a big fan of this show but the discourse surrounding it is embarrassing. And it's truly revealing that young people don't watch enough films.

@@jamk2668finally someone said it

​@@jamk2668or umm they're good actors and Abel isn't

You literally just explained it. I'm not even a huge fan but how does it not make sense? Just because you've been conditioned to crave a "satisfying" ending or affable characters doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

The WORST

You seem to understand it just fine

Easily the greatest show I've ever seen I might actually make it my entire personality

@@theCommentDevilget help

I keep seeing people say this but it's completely wrong. The original story was actually made by the weeknd and he was the one who came up with the idea. He was involved with writing the original script with the female director and was still acting in it. The weeknd actually didn't write the new script at all, according to the rolling stones article.

Stop perpetuating this completely debunked lie already. We get it. You guys would of much rather seen the Amy version of the show because she was trying to make Jocelyn a #MeToo and that’s the show you wanted. But that wasn’t the show HBO greenlit, Amy was hired and fired by Sam because he was busy with Euphoria and she tried to completely re-envision the show into a “women are the victims of the patriarchal music industry and have no agency” show. You guys wanted essentially wanted another version of the Barbie movie. Stop crying about it already!

That’s not at all surprising to me people from lower class backgrounds often give their kid’s bougie sounding names that are actually just trashy. It’s actually part of the reason I’m named Mark, my mom didn’t want me to have a Russian sounding name on top of my typical European Jew last name, she thought I’d have an easier time with a strong Western/Roman name in America.

Facts! Joss, a young woman in her early 20s beat a cult leader and the entire music industry! It would be hilarious in its absurdity, if it weren't so damn hurtful

I can't see anyone thinking that the point is how she "beat him." The point is that she's also kind of a shitty person and a manipulator. If anything, that's almost too obvious.

@jamk2668 I was curious about the latest reviews and when I Google it, those were titles that came up. 🤷‍♀️ I think the ending would have at least been more satisfying if she had left him for good.

Fr that last part, also Sam Levinson did the same nasty thing with Maddie getting groomed by an adult man at 14 (he had a character say that she was controlling the dude the whole time, as a 14 YEAR OLD), so I wasn't surprised to see it in this show. The man is clearly misogynistic.

@@grumpysphinx4911You do understand we were told that from Rue’s perspective and are told that Rue is a unreliable narrator. She saw Maddy as the person in control even though she was only 14. And to be totally honest I don’t see that as misogynistic, it doesn’t make sleeping with a 14 year old ok or mean that she wasn’t being taken advantage of as an impressionable and vulnerable minor. All it means is she was sexually aware at that age and purposefully sought out that satisfaction and had agency in making her decisions, which becomes important in contextualizing her relationship with Nate. Nate was clearly abusive but Maddy made conscious decisions to provoke him and then continued to stay with him or get back together and even lied and destroyed another person to protect her relationship and herself by protecting him

You have no idea what you’re talking about. I dated two prostitutes, I never really pimped and neither of them had actual full time pimps but both had messed with pimps and I had a pimp style relationship with the second one in certain ways at certain points. Some of those girls LITERALLY can not function without a pimp, they can’t drive, they can’t pay their bills, they can’t open bank accounts, they put themselves in unsafe situations and can not call law enforcement if something goes wrong etc… I had a friend that loved and married a stripper that rejected him (they divorced but were separated and on and off constantly) because she felt like he wasn’t tough enough or reliable enough to pimp and wanted and needed in many ways a pimp

That’s actually super common and even healthy in certain safe, consensual ways for abuse and trauma survivors

SO BAD! there was nobody to root for by the end, everyone was a piece of trash and did horrible things. I wish we saw the original version as well before sam and the weeknd fcked it up!

Game of thrones final season was the worst of all time but this one is a close second.

THIS THIS!!

Seimetz's version is pretty much the same. It's just a different cast and visual element is less interesting. Why do you feel as though you should like any of the characters? What matters is whether they're interesting, not whether or not you want to be friends with them.

​@@jamk2668Holy shit, how many times are you going to tell people the characters aren't 'supposed to be your friend'? Is that some weird thing you think is going on? I'm assuming you're like 12 and this is the first tv show you've ever seen so you don't get that shitty characters can be entertaining to watch. Go back to your bedroom covered with The Weeknd posters and talk to him about it.

Jocelyn didn't even like World Class Sinner, Dyanne was more manipulated than Jocelyn, Tedros made her believe he loved her and then made Dyanne invite Jocelyn to the club and then had s3x with Jocelyn something Dyanne didn't expect, Dyanne just wanted succeed in the industry, she didn't abuse anyone and even asked Jocelyn if she could take the opportunity, to which she said yes, after One Of The Girls I thought Dyanne would be with Jocelyn and the others on stage(I do not count The Weeknd here because Tedros in the series doesn't sing), Come on Jocelyn even forgive Xander for what he did to Rob😐😐😐😐

Joss did refer to Dyanne as a “random back up dancer”

@@wiiplaya25 that's what I'm saying Jocelyn didn't forg Dyanne for something that Tedros told her to do, Jocelyn didn't acknowledge her after knowing that Tedros make Dyanne invite her to the club and Dyanne begin taking to sign up with Jocelyn's agency, even Dyanne(jennie) is featured in one of the girls(whats up with this???), we know this because Dyanne sings and Tedros don't, so the songs that have The Weekend in them are just a way to move the story

Dyanne set her up tho so it makes sense. She could trust Tedros because she was essentially using him the whole time and she could predict and manipulate him. Dyanne was competion and not useful to her and she could never trust her after realizing that she successfully set her up

@@markg1727 So the backup dancer who asked for her permission was a threat but the pimp controlling her and making her decisions is okay?

I forgot he existed, like you could completely cut him out and nothing would change 💀

I think it was more symbolic, he was a trusted member of the group and useful for intimidation/muscle.

Look at the KZfaq channels talking about how his album was about Selena and then look at comparisons between Selena Gomez and Joseline and then you realize he thinks Selena Gomez uses ppl buts seems innocent, she moans in her song, posed naked for her album, she was an old child star, her assistant and her have a makeup line or something no swimsuit line... It's like you probably sprinkled other people's trauma in there but he definitely has like the hospital photoshoot her canceling the tour because of mental illness it's straight up stalking Selena Gomez and I think we should call in Trevor Noah for a lecture... I sincerely think part of this is him trying to say Selena Gomez's evil and conniving and tricking everyone into feeling sorry for her

I think the point is the whole thing is a cult. The industry is a cult and the celeb-worshipping fans are part of the cult and how dehumanizing the whole thing is and gets worse the further you go in. Tedros wanted to jump from street hustler/pimp/rapper to music producer/talent manager/cult leader but he couldn’t out manuever Jocelyn because she grew up in it.

Chris Brown still has millions of fans. Do you honestly believe that if she publicly forgave him and asked her fans too that a majority wouldn’t support her? Because if so, I’d say your deluded and naive

It’s designed that way.

I think this is what they meant to do too, but it sucks that the execution was so trash. It's like we can't enjoy the dynamic switch, bc neither character was likable and they didn't pace the reveal of Joss' real nature in a believable way. But I guess we can always take away that anyone earnest that isn't willing to destroy all morals, won't make it in the industry? So Joss' BFF had to leave and Dyanne wasn't cut-throat enough, so she was booted? ITS SO DUMB I can't think about this anymore lol

I guess the brush scene can be interpreted in many ways somewhere in between "She's capable of lying to him" and "She made the whole abuse up and is totally in control". Taking him back is probably also supposed to mean that she is playing with him because she is successful now while he is kinda ruined, so being with her is his best bet at the moment or even for the rest of his life? I wonder if they actually wanted to make it look as if at least one of them is in love with the other because ehm, no way.

Yep he is 😬

😂

The show is a masterpiece IMO as an abuse survivor

It was Jocelyn. That’s what’s implied

Euphoria had source material (it’s actually an Israeli show).

I agree

oh and she lied about the brush and that she had an abusive mother.

I still think the music video would’ve been a great pilot and then condense the sex scenes in episode 2, use episode 3 to show hints of joss maintaining some control in subtle ways, then 4 and 5 is a constant power struggle

Yeah, exactly. They put her in every episode so that her fans would watch but her character was never supposed to make any significant difference - at least not when it comes to Jocelyn's career. It was like 80% about her weird relationship with Tegross anyway...

They werent written well or properly developed either. Likability aside their motivations make no sense and werent earned

Maybe that's true for certain forms of art. But people often watch shows and movies or support artists because they have something relatable or role-model-esque about them.

You’re the worst

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

@@kamisartor5998 An ability to write is lost to some I see.

I don’t think any amount of episodes would’ve helped this trash 🗑️ such horrible storytelling they should’ve just kept the original director