It's a bit crushing since I bought myself a combat patrol just before starting 10th edition and I was pretty hyped for GK but they morphed into this high skill floor army that requires finesse to pilot that I just don't have because of my lack of experience and it took all the wind out of my sails. "Winrates don't matter", but getting crushed by custodes since you can't realistically match them in melee unless you HEAVILY outmanouver them or just autoloose against knights isn't exactly what I want to play for

Agree with most of the points made and had a lot of fun teleporting around. One thing however that really made me sad, is the lack of hammers. Loved my hammer paladins and I think it would have improved the overall damage output, without being op. The consolidation of the rest of the Nemesis-weapons I like.

It's good to hear your thoughts on Grey Knights as they are now, and I agree with most of your opinions. I would have prefered that the weapon profiles remained separate, though. I'm also annoyed that a chapter solely made up of psychers now has so few psychers.

This video honestly made me feel a lot better. My two favourite armies are Grey Knights and AdMech from a lore, model and playstyle perspective. So, I was rather disappointed seeing them very low on tier lists. I kept reading and re-reading the index's and just saw an uphill battle and I was dreading it. But, after watching this, I realised I was coming at it incorrectly. I should be playing to the armies strengths, not just sheer power. Now I'm seeing a lot more of the available combos and actually looking forward to see where 10th takes us. On top of that, the comment of "The only way now is up" and "Every victory will be your own" made me understand that even though it is an uphill battle, the payoff is going to be so worth it. I joined mid 9th edition, so I'm still very new to this and never knew the pain of 8th, but I'm glad to see it from your perspective as it really helped motivate me again. So thank you for that.

I'm gutted about daemon hammers and lack of anti tank. But I do feel like GW are holding things back for the Codex. Or rather I'm hoping. We are a small faction so if we got all our toys at the start there is nothing to add save different detachment rules when the full codex does eventually drop

great break down. I like your note about sticking with a faction at the end.

To me, I've just had the issue with the fact that while our Army Rule is amazing, we don't have ways to capitalize on it. We can out maneuver everyone, but we cannot use that flexibility to flank and kill. I've been telling people that if you want to run pure GK and not soup in other things, you have to stop TRYING to kill. We have no psychic or weapons that can kill anything stronger than heavy infantry, so stop trying. We need to play the objectives and win with points. Which sucks honestly because other armies can do both, kill AND play strategic for the objectives. So until the Codex comes out and hopefully gives us more options, I'm shelving my GK. Sad really. Keep up the fight man, glad you are having fun with them.

Always enjoy the hobby videos and love your enthusiasm for everything gray knight.good luck at the tournament.

Hello from Spain. I wanted to congratulate you on your channel. I also play gray knights and I really liked your final reflection of the video.

as for me I dont care if i win, most grey knight lore they rarely win, they loose to win actually, its more like the last samurai, fighting impossible odds with few survivors to slay that one demon, or destroy that artifact or prevent a curse or something that tells an amazing story, i fight battles to that purpose to take the fight out of the enemy, rather hard to win anyway, so why not, feels alot more fun to me, learning new things all the time, with a chaplain you can still hunt greater demons, feels wierd its not just a given but you can, and draigo can too with raidiant strike.

Way to go on painting up a stormraven, I have mine trimmed up and test fitted. Whenever I get some time, it will be super fun to have it zoom around, or join the scenery. I love it.

Since I started watching your videos during COVID, I've always appreciated the attitude you bring to the hobby and game.

Great video & analysis! I think we, as GK players, need to make it a point to get GW to set separate stats for our Nemesis Daemon Hammers! If space marines get thunder hammers there is no excuse why ours got lumped into the rest of our Nemesis weapons. Ditto for the DK fists.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, It gave me some great insight.

Man is breaking out the cards with the birb shirt. Hope you havin a fun weekend duder.

I wonder if since Paladins don't have lethal hits, and also hit on 2+, if they might be the best target for radiant strike. Have them led by a grand master for the free strat, or a brother captain for sustained hits and rerolls to wound to try for as many wound rolls as possible. IDK, I don't play Grey Knights, just a thought I had. In any event I love your content, and I'm happy to find out you aren't located to far away. I'm in the Olympia area. Oh, also good luck in Tacoma!

Recently just found my 2002 old metal Grey Knights and FINALLY started to paint them. Time I finish, maybe the codex will be out with new models aha :D (yeah, we only have GK squad and terminators ultimately, that's a little poor for such an old faction) Love your spirit at the end of the video, glad I follow you ^^

the good news is its an index, not a codex, so the real codex will be very different likely keep the movement and add wargear, and other rules to fill in the gaps much needed now as we have almost nothing and many armies get bonuses just to fight us. hammers will be back as well. This is a crusher swarm dex.

Was looking forward to this ... - I haven't taken my Grey Knights out yet as I'm painting up some more infantry... My thoughts about tenth are very confusing.. - Love the scoring and mission pack.. and love a lot of the armies I have - but index internal balance seems shot with points per unit / sub unit, and external balance is all over the place..

I’m just starting to get into 40k never played before. I bought a squad of paladins and voldus so far. Been learning and watching a lot of your vids!

Enjoyed the video! I have been putting together lists with Paladin/Purifier bricks of 10 then 5 man termis with Libraians… then what little I can for chafe. Or, a Knight Paladin, some Named Inquisitors and Exaction Squads thrown into some GK shells. Heck, even some Armigers and crap. Who knows!

Just had an absolute blast at my first tournament of 10th with GK. I lost every game but I took fixed secondaries and maxed them out every game. We are amazing at doing deploy teleport homers, behind enemy lines and engage. First to the fray and deploy teleport homers is awesome to get the points for it on turn 1! I don't like that we can't really contest points for primary against stuff like custodes but it was very fun taking 6 units of 5 loaded up terminators lol

i did exceptionally well with my terminator army at the end of 9th, yea things were exceptionally killy but i had some of the most epic battles very fluffy ones killed 3 greater demons, and tons of beast of nurgle, and lost but i had most of my army left, and almost won in scoring. those are the losses i shoot for that really feel like wins because it was how grey knights really play. now though with how they play now, it feels like the soul of the grey knights is gone, too bland, gk players are getting shot and stabbed off the table, but thier ok, ill keep practicing, see whats new chaplain combo, is decent at least they should have left hammerhands alone, we needed that army wide. rerolls to wound.

I'm looking forward to the opportunity to paint more Termies over the summer holiday! Need to get some with heavy weapons.

Hey Stefan, thank you for your videos! I main GK for a lot I agree with you and here are some competetive things might be interesting for you (I am sure you know almost all of them): 1) strat allows to have assault weapons, so interceptors from a rhino with auto advance and shoot and then move again bacause of their ability can move veeeery long distance. Still very costly for me, to be honest 2) so sad about hammers and dreadknights :( 3) servitors can shot 4 melta shots from a rhino on 3+ :) 4) paladins can take extra heavy weapon on the banner boy, with grandmaster this will be 4 psycannons in 6-man squad 5) costs are huge for GK.... and abilities are weaker than other factions for the same points amount 6) I tried and I liked to have Castellan/Valiant (dominus big imperial knight), so this might be an interesting option Really likes what you are saying about "winning". Playing GK is the big challenge nowadays. Thank you for a content!!!

Amen to the rule of cool and enjoy life and playing games!

yep thats a big beef not bieng able to do what we do in the lore, hunt slay teleport out. instead run away, wound, nick something and hopefully get the objectives.

I like the rooster but the price increase on the Purgation squad is just bad. As they were a cheap heavy weapons "mobile" platform but FAR less tanky then 5 Paladins with 3 Psycannons, which also got Nemesis weapons. So now they are just an expensive heavy weapons unit which is squishy. They do have Indirect line of fire but I believe that still gets the -1 to hit and enemy gets benefit of cover. Which makes their 4 Psycannons, almost useless for this cost. At least allow us to field 5, with four heavy weapons or 10, with 8 heavy weapons for this unit cost. And yea, the Dreadknight "Babycarrier" is far worse than a Venerable Dreadnought as the Dready buffs infantry by ALOT.

Radiant strike on a block of Paladins lead by Draigo against something like Angron works well but maybe thats too situational for regular use.

Suggestion on a 2000 point list? I’m having trouble finding a good and fun list.

About units: The regular Nemesis Dreadknight. Yes, it is a bit overpriced. No doubt. BUT. Every option is baked into the price. It does have a movement of 14"(can Advance without restricting other things, and the detachment rule means every Advance is always 6 and Flying), which gives it a melee threat range of 21"(14" move and an average of 7" charge). This, in my opinion, makes it better than the Grandmaster Nemesis Dreadknight variant. Toughness 8 is enough to mitigate small arms fire like Lasguns and Boltguns, and is just as survivable against Las Cannons and Hunter-Killer missiles as Toughness 10 or 11. But you get a 4+ Inv. Save against those high AP shots. Overcharged Plasma shots are a bit of a threat compared to regular Dreadnoughts(wounding on 4+ rather than 5+), but with 13 Wounds, it can take a few of them. You get 2 ranged weapons, which mostly have an impact as anti-infantry, but can also do some chip damage against larger targets. It seems that the Heavy Incinerator(ignores cover and -1AP is pretty good at range 18) with the Heavy Psycannon(Attacks 6, strength 10, damage3) are the best options. But it is the melee potential that is the star here. Strength 14 on the Nemesis Daemon Greathammer. That means 16 dice rolls on a Tankshock(5 MW on average) against most targets. Combine that with 2-3 good hits from the hammer itself, and it will wreck most vehicles. If a Techmarine has buffed your NDK(within 6" during the command phase), it adds +1 to hit. If stuck in melee, you can still shoot in your shooting phase, because "BGNT", and you ignore the accuracy penalty partially due to your Heavy Incinerator, which means hordes of infantry will be killed fairly fast regardless. Speaking of... The Techmarine. Fairly powerful melee combatant, with a bunch of attacks and decent AP and damage. Can be added to a Strikesquad. And can have Servitors. Grey Knight Servitors. Which has a base BS of 4+ for some reason. Together with a Techmarine, they have BS3+ and WS4+, and can be added to a 5-model Strike Squad. This means a 10-model squad of 5 GK, 1 GK-TM and 4 Servitors. For the same price as just a 10-model GK Strike Squad(270 pts). All getting to use the Deep Strike rules and GK goodness. 2 of Servitors can have a special weapon(the others are "stuck" with stength 6, AP-2, dam3 melee attack). That means 2 Multimeltas(4 shots), that you can Deep Strike within Melta Range on the regular(9"). They might still only wound on a 5+ against most vehicles, but when they do wound, they deal quite a bit of damage. And against elite infantry, at that range, they are quite deadly. Or you can get 2 Plasma Cannons for clearing out hordes and can be overchaged for "2-wound" stuff, or when you need the AP and extra damage. For general purpose, I guess the Heavy Bolter is ok. 3 attacks with damage 2 has some potential against small elite or scout units, if you can wound. 2 of those means you, on average, gets one extra hit through Sustained Hits. Other stuff. I do not like any of the Psilencers. High number of attacks+Sustained Hits is nice on paper. But the strength is fairly low, there is no AP and damage is just 1. It is not that GK are in lack of weaponry to deal with unarmoured fodder(Storm Bolters), and it is arguably worse against hordes compared to the Incinerator, especially with the amount of cover present in games. I rate the regular GK Strike Squad highly. 135/270 for 5/10 models, Toughness4, Wounds2, SV2+, all armed with Storm Bolters and a 3 attack Nemesis Force Weapon. In cover, you would need very high AP weaponry to take out models, if you charge them, they bite back, and the will gun down infantry with ease. Purifiers are basically the Strike Squad at 3 pts extra per model, but with an extra special weapon per 5 model and the Purifying Flame psychic attack. Better ranged damage potential, but slightly worse melee damage potential(special weapons means less NFW in melee). They get exceedingly more dangerous as they start to lose models(+1 to hit, and later +1 to wound for all attacks). Terminators are awesome but expensive. Quite durable, but not that much more damage output compared to the Strike Squad, when you consider the point cost. You can get 2 squads of Terminators, or 3 squads of Strike Squads or Purifiers, for roughly the same price. There are not a lot of weapons that are effective at taking out 3-wound models with a 4+ Inv. save though. Things like Lascannons will wound them easily, but often bounce on the 4+, overkill in the extreme, or can even fail to kill(potential 2 damage roll). Autocannons(wounds on a 3+, damage 3) and similar are probably the most efficient, but even they bounce half the time.

Rocking the Shirou Emyia shirt

I like how the grey knights feel on the tabletop, as I enjoy teleporting stuff around to specific places I need them. I do dislike the lack of hammers and other Anti-Tank weapons. I feel like the psycannons should have the Anti-Tank keyword or something, idk. However, I think a lot of 10th edition's gripes come from a 9th edition mindset, where everyone played the game like it was Call of Duty, buying and using super optimized lists and armies that basically gave you an auto win, like how you use whatever gun is the best in CoD is the only one you can use to win. Like yeah there are some times that either should not be there or should be changed, like Indirect Fire or Towering, or the Eldar's fate dice, but from a lot of complaints I've seen about 10th 40k, it's usually about how they don't win as easily anymore, or they weren't as powerful anymore, even though the entire point of 10th is to tone down every army in the game, which I think they got mostly right. Like, obviously, the Knights and Eldar are still very powerful, but armies like space marines or necrons seem relatively balanced in comparison to late 9th edition, where it was Iron hands, dark angels, Eldar, iron hands, iron hands, dark angel, and dark angels lists everywhere

I love Purifiers they absolutely delete infantry and with the 3 inc drop ive stolen plenty of objectives off people with strikes the terminators squad ive utilized to delete things i use 2 units of 5 with a librarian and draigo i find them quite durable and often one or two die a turn i revieve one right back. Although i am annoyed that the apothecary is not in palidins i think it is a mistake considering i thought apothecaries where palidins.

Keen to see some tau ! I have enough tau to play based in Otago?

Hopefully the thousand sons codex and grey knights codex will actually add a benefit to the psychic keyword. As for myself, I will be running 3 librarians and 600 points of purifiers simply so I can actually use "psychic" powers

@Paladins - They can get 3 special weapons per 5, as the Ancient can have 1 as well. Paladins led by a Brother Captain has my attention. With sustained hits and Ws/Bs2+, they have a 100% hit rate in melee and with their 4 psycannons. They don't get the Apothecary, or OC3, but they do get -1 to wound. I think if you're leaning into the tactical/shooty/teleporty unit, this unit has more utility than Terminators. Psycannons are not fantastic, but they're a damn site better than stormbolters.

What is frustrating and funny for me about this army is how I have a lot of guys modeled with hammers back in the 9th, and all of those just became Nemesis weapons. However, there is a nemesis deamon hammer that actually exists in the game! It's on inquisitor Coteaz nd its actually pretty solid. 3 attacks, 3+, str9, ap3, dam3. Yes, I'll have that please for my grey knights! I quickly realized after a game against one of the local deamon players who has switched his list over from infantry to all monsters/vehicles that this edition has a pretty big problem with infantry being able to punch up on tanks and t10 monsters. I've played about 7 games, and they all usually go the same. I can't score primary very well, but I can usually max secondaries on tatical objectives. Losing all our psychic abilities seriously hurts and everything, save librarians, feels overcosted, especially purgation squads at an unreasonable 190pts. I also just wish our nemesis weapons had anti-deamon 3/4+. It felt bad that the only deamon interactions I had were Draigo and the libra daemonica enhancement that I usually throw on my champion. The teleport shenanigans are good, but we need to be more lethal and not lean on taking 3 librarians in every list to achieve that via vortex of doom.

I think the points increase for the Purgation Squad was a huge mistake, i cannot help but compare them to the Desolation Squad, which is cheaper and x1000 times better as far as an Indirect Fire unit goes. The Nemesis Dreadknight is sorely lacking in toughness, all other Space Marines dreads are T10, but ours is T8 which makes it so much easier to kill. Grey Knight strength output is abysmally low, Str6 melee and Str 9 Psycannons struggle to take down any heavy armor, so you faced with a choice of running Librarians with your Terminators for mortal wound output, or running Chaplains on your Terminators for +1 to wound so you can pound through tougher targets. Apart from Assault Cannons we have no Devastating Wounds to help punch through heavy targets with mortals. So for me, my 2 quick fixes for us are 1) Give Psycannons the 'Devastating Wounds' keyword 2) Give Nemesis Dreadknights T10

+1 to wound in general is like 4-6 str at various break points. IE, Wounding Veh on 4s is like having 10-12 str... which is why people are sleeping on Chaplains imo

Couldn't agree more with lots of your overviews. I was really holding out hope that they wouldn't roll all our weapons into one, and I'm still not happy they did. Mind you, I've softened my anger at it as I've played games as I've realized S6 -2 D2 is still a pretty decent profile into most armies. You can find ways to improve that too (Bro-cap giving sustained hits on your melee weapons and Chappies giving +1 to wound), but it does hurt that we gotta make expensive combo's to do what a unit of cheap GSC squads can achieve easier. BUT I'm holding out hope that the daemon hammers are revived in our codex since that is such a key part of our identity. The fact a Ven Dread and Dread got rolled into 1 isn't a bad thing, but I'm still perplexed as to why it's not a psyker per abilities attached yet is. Sure, it does give the ven-dread access to our strats, but then they took away DS from it thus removing it's ability to benefit from the army ability? Com'on now, if you're gonna open up the ven-dread to all the debuffs associated with being a psyker, at least let them work with our faction! NDK's honestly aren't the worst, but they are def way too expensive. Both flavours should be ~190-210 point range. Only true AT profiles but they both rely entirely on making their charge. I'm hoping with the recent rulings around Death from the Warp and applying +1 to hit for the turn rather than the movement phase (hahaha) that it makes them very very powerful but who knows. I think our army rule rocks, it's very powerful and very annnoying for opponents to deal with. I played a 30-abby list this weekend and somehow still managed to pull a draw out (crowe+10 purifiers, 3x5 strikes, Stern+5 termies, Voldus + 5 pallies, Bro-cap + 5 pallies). I woulda likely pulled off a win had I remembered to put HQ's on the objectives to score the +3 points (major placement errors there). Even the detachment rule is good in my books since it lets you get units up the board quick and get units into scoring positions. One of the biggest things they need to start with is typo's in our rules. GM ability should be in line with the other 7 abilities, Chappies need leader, FttF clarification, DftW not being in movement phase etc. I've heard that they've purposely made termies unable to revive in reserves not because of us, but because it would make Necron too powerful (thus us catching strays AGAIN from other armies broken mechanics hurting our significantly less powerful ones). I've also heard rumours that GK's were very powerful in playtesting and this is the nerfed reactions to that (apparently they didn't listen to the same remarks about Eldar and GSC though...) All in all, I'm still enjoying playing the game and making my opponent sweat, I had no issue getting my butt whooped at the start of 9th while we waited for our codex at 1W, so I'll just live with this for now.

Here is the crazy combo i have dread knought give re rolls on ones and paladins that hit on 2 then teleport them behind lines and shred. Add a brother captain and equipt as many psilencers and force weapons that can maybe take out a knight.

Not gonna lie, this current Index has made me just give up with Grey Knights. The teleporting shenanigans are nice, Astral Aim being back is cool too but the damage output is just nowhere near high enough. Gonna be maining my Tau for this edition.

Gotta say, as a guy who only got into warhammer in 9th, 10th feels very bad to play as Greyknights. I loved seeing the survivability increase, but every game i've played, even against admech, my guys get killed super fast in an edition everyone says is less killy. I think the killy part of the edition is hidden behind combos of units and some strategyms for every other army which is why my 6 terminators can get shot off the table by one 11 man brick of intercessors due to a combo of bolter disciplen, othe of the moment, devistator doctron and a leutenant's ability. I've tried my damndest to focus on mobility to gain VP and not get into fights if I dont have to. I've even tried going the oposite way to actually get in there and fight for the objective. Every game I feel like paper. I move unpredictably, but when i enevitably have to stand still for VP i get hit like I'm paper too. I dont even wana talk about fighting daemons with only 2 models (i think) with anti daemon on them haha. Love your stuff man. Your passion for the Greyknights is evedent and i love seeing ur games and takes. Keep it up!

I'm a filty casual, and I don't care so much about winning as having fun with the army I'm playing, and honestly, I'm just not having fun with the GK right now. It feels like playing 3D chess for 4 hours straight and is just exhausting. I'm currently looking at other factions to build because I just can't keep that kind of concentration up in order to make the army do something simple that other factions seem to just get for nothing.

So I have a question for you regarding the "First to the Fray"-enhancement. It can only be used on a GK character with Deep Strike. This seems redundant, since every GK character has Deep Strike. However... It then goes on to talk about any "transports" that your unit might be using. And finally, it talks about being able to, specifically, Deep Strike on turn 1, 2 or 3 with the unit. Does "First to the Fray" allow you to Deep Strike with a character along with its transport in turn 1? Why else would these things be mentioned? Even the fluff text mentions "whether braving premature teleportation assaults or leaping from the hatch of a transport still aglow from atmospheric entry...".

i really do feel like the points reflect an army wide bonus that was removed at the last minute. the Teleport Shunt Army rule is definitely one of the rules of 40k 10th ed, but i wonder if they tested something that capitalized on being psyckers and psycannons need to be S10 AP-2. the big psycannons on baby carriers need to be S12 AP-3. and it wouldnt take much to make our nemisis force weapons actually cool. keep the attack numbers the same, but make them S7 AP2 D2 but give them Devistating wounds. S7 means they could wound T12 on a 5+ rather than a 6+ which is massive at remidying the big weakness of the army, and devistating wounds makes them dangerous to anything and if the stormbolters became sanctic storm bolters (exactly the same as regular storm bolters but Lethal hits and Anti-daemon 4+) they would actually have something that makes them daemonhunters. add these three things and it might not fully fix the index, but it would go towards the massive points costs and give them at least SOME fighting edge.

I'm not saying I was keen on this but I squeeled like I just rolled 6 6's

So wait, we can teleport assault turn 1?, remove some unit then put it back on the field turn 1?

Let’s fucking goooooo. Been waiting for this one

My man these videos are the best but could you possibly get a lav mic or something? I will throw in $10.

I rmemeber seeing the first rule reveals and getting immediately excited for 40k, and have not been a real fan of the game for a very long time - 8th sucked for so many reasons. 9th was a bit better but still lacked a good rule system (imho). But as soon as I started seeing the weapon profiles, keywords, and how various systems worked, I was all in. 10th edition is so much more intuitive and tactical than I think 40k has EVER been, and is easily my favourite army-sized game right now.

GK: You fools! Our superior mobility has allowed us to outmaneuver and strike you at your weakest Space marines: Ok but our weakest is still stronger than you GK: SHIT

feels like 8th edition again. i didnt play untill psycic awakening then things got better not sure what it was like early on though.

What are your thoughts on lascannon + missile launcher for cracking armour, or even dual twin-linked lascannons on a land raider?

Not Grey knight related but vanvets are flying Khorne berserkers with their “heirloom weapons”, but should probably be “fast moving special pistol guys” since they can take all their pistols still and they don’t get the combi weapon treatment. As an assault marine fan, it is a little gratifying, and I kinda have that curb your enthusiasm music playing in my head thinking about all the guys with 30 vanvets or the poor bastards with 30 wulfen.

Almost finished it, great mind set. I don't care if I win or lose against my friends as long as the game is fun.. I have been as you said leaning into the movement and just accepted we don't have anti monster/vehicle.... I have had some success with paladins and a chaplain... Lots of attacks with a 2+ to hit. And +1 to wound and some ok durability.

One thing about paladins is you can take 3 heavy weapons total if you have an ancient in there but like you said heavy weapons arnt great anyway

Note. brotherhood champion give re-rolls to hit and wounds for himself only. not the whole unit. crowe is really good with pro arrival with a 10man squad.

So in this edition is taking any marine units worth it besides all terminator units?

A unit of paladins with three psycannons and the first to the Fray warlord trait seems like a good combo. Unfortunately they suffer the overcosted syndrome that terminators and dreadknights have

as a regular space marines player (yes, boo me) who loves taking psykers, 10th edition really screwed me over. Granted, I only had one or two per game, but still, losing all of that engaging "oh, I'm going to give these guys these psychic abilities because it'll do this or because it's fluffy and fun," really sucks. 1cp death from the warp is pretty nuts.

They're going to HAVE to fix the psychic damage stuff, it makes NO sense that daemons would be stronger against grey knights, whose very Point and purpose is hunting them. It's bad enough to not even bother playing tenth with them

ONe thing to note is that with Mists of Deimos, a unit with Deep Strike can be placed into Strategic Reserves, not Deep Strike... so you are stuck coming back in from the table edge, as Strategic Reserves is a form of Reserves, Deep Strike is a form of Reserves, but Reserves is NOT a form of Strategic Reserves... The best anti vehicle that I have found is just triple spam Librarians, relatively small Deep Strike footprint and Vortex vehicles... stubby 18" range Vortex of self inflicted pain is pants (the best librarians in the galaxy and they still shoot themselves), and you have 3 naked characters so you will give away Assassinate... besides your opponent can't complain about this since we are seriously restricted to Land Raider and short range Librarians as our only anti vehicle, even normal dreadnought and razorback lascannons are now defunct to anti elite infantry and are no longer anti vehicle :|

Unfortunately you can't combine First to the Fray with Rapid Ingress. Rapid Ingress allows you to arrive at the end of *your opponents* movement phase. First to the Fray specifically allows you to arrive through DS in *your* first movement phase. Since "out-of-phase rules" were clarified in the rules commentary, you are not allowed to treat the opponents movement phase as if it were your own movement phase for any other rules other than the rapid ingress strat itself...

You talk about First to the Fray and how it’s great because it gives you the ability to drop down in your first turn. But the Deep strike rule states we can drop down during ONE of our movement phases. So that includes our first movement phases right? I was thinking first to the fray allows us to throw an extra unit in reserves than what’s allowed based on the mission or army size.

Armigers? I think I'll bring two

Paladins have across the board unconditional bs and ws 2+, while terminators are 3+. Paladins can also have 3psycannons (squad of 10). So their ranged damage output is higher (deep strike in and shoot, they hit for much more…) they shrug off attacks from bigger units better. Terminators require a charge. You can't deep strike and charge to get the lethal hits. Also in defensive fight/melee they slap back for a lot less. My initial thoughts on paladins were also negative. I had to fully work out their stats, probabilities, etc. With the right leader they will unconditionally deal more hate per turn no matter how you use them than anything else in the army.

Death from the Warp for assault +1 to hit. It's insanely strong.

I think GK cost more due to their equipment. Power weapons and combi weapons for each dude.

This is a very thoughtful take on the army without rage or hyperbole. Are you sure you're a KZfaqr?? 😂

Paladins can take 3 special weapons per 5 with a banner man. BroCap + 10 paladin= 13 psycannons w/ Sustained Hits 1 and -1 to wound. Not something to scoff at

I’ve beeen running a 10 man purgation squad with a brother champion, killed Guliman first go, really fun

I'm actually very excited to have a tough edition to play in with grey knights my boys didn't loose a game last edition in my play group

Honestly im starting GK as my 3rd army and this seems like an edition where i just won't play them. Id rather play my eldar or tau.

Seems not just from grey knights but from many aspects of the launch of tenth they knew 10 th and "legends" was gonna be a huge long term implementation. Feels like they launched a beta test and plan to patch around the 18 month mark. Moving from MTG to Warhammer this year it's odd going from the corporate output capacity of hasbro to the GW modesty. But I think it deters more of the spikey players.

I’m liking what I’m hearing because it sounds like my theory is correct: 10th Grey Knights play like 9th Harlequins. When played well they’re the best thing in the world but it is very difficult to play them well. This is because you guys took our rules as we were just folded into CWE. Well, I know what I’m running my clowns as till the Aeldari codex gives them their actual rules back. 😂

Yeah the hammer profile is really frustrating. I miss that. NDK sweep profile is frankly terrible. But I do find dread knights very playable myself. However they are always deep strike so not targetable until I’ve had a chance. The rules on if opponent goes first then using teleport assault does not allow first turn. Due to the commentators notes adding them to the reserves rule. I’ll be interested to what your thoughts are on this as been a hot topic at my place. I don’t have the specific wording with me at moment.

Yeah I just ignore vehicles and monsters. I have accepted we can’t kill those and we just have to try and dodge around them. Also I’m super pissed about the psychic keyword and Apothecaries. Psychic because the majority of our psychic abilities are just the same thing they other units have in other armies without psychic. Like the fucking strike squad, oh man. Their psychic ability is the same thing that fucking CULTISTS get. Apothecaries just because of codex lore reasons. They’re former Paladins, why can’t they join a Paladin unit? Overall 10th is super fun and I love Grey Knights just as much as I did in 8th. Really the psychic keyword is what annoys me.

I think the best counter to knights is that super heavies shouldn’t be in games below 2500 points, and to not play games that are 2500 points so you effectively don’t encounter knights. They shouldn’t be a faction in this skirmish level war game, they should be forgeworld only (and not generally allowed like other proper titans)

All this perpetual imbalance and patching (I'm assuming some big reworks for GK down the road) is a real problem for people who are starting a new army. Put together a Knights army in 8th and Marines and Eldar in 9th all of which were made invalid by various updates by the time I'd finished painting them. Games systems like Heresy 2 feel so much better on this front!

I taking a break. The army and models l like (terminators) are just not fun to play vs the opponents l have. I dislike the inability to deal with vehicles , monsters and heavy infantry. I hate being beaten in melee for not having strike first. No hammers suck. Dreadnoughts being one shot feels bad . Looking at sm Terminators cheaper and with better rules/synergies is bad. I hate the ancient and apothecary change. I had one of each for my army, now l need 4 of each and l aint buying extra 4 boxes just to field them, but of course this means my dudes aren't just overcosted , they are also worse then what GW thinks they should be

GK have a 36% win rate I think? Point proven, GK sucks until we get reworked/overhauled to be on the same level as the rest.

I cannot wait to see what you do whith grey knights personally I love the terminators and love that you teleport in their face and shoot 6 psicannons in their face whith 10 man paladins and a grandmaster or brother captain

high skill? latest tournaments win rate was 25-26 percent this month for almost every tournament. its likely to get lower as new codexes come out, it just cant compete with anything over C tier. it was a major series of nerfs by GW, Grey knights in the lore are somewhat tactical but strike with the force of a thunderbolt, a hammer much like space marines do, and slay demons, monsters, they have much greater difficulty doing that and are overpriced, for thier abilities. most units have more wounds, or abilities per cost per model, but thier ok, and can be fun still. im hoping for more updates later. GW really doesent like us much i can see that all over the dex.

I wanted to hear your opinions on the Grey Knights. The fact that you have to wax lyrical about how losing is a good opportunity to learn to play better is all the proof I need that GK are not in a good place.

I admire your optimism but the repeated insistence that this army is just a 'finesse' or 'high skill' army assumes that the GK index is a cleverly-designed puzzle with subtleties to figure out; I think we have to consider the fact that it is more likely just written poorly and was barely tested, and any wins are in spite of it and not because of its strengths. Most frustrating of all is that all of the GK tricks are easily invalidated (not moving within 9" to avoid triggering Mists, basic screening against teleportation, etc) by any reasonably attentive opponent who takes a minute to look at their rules, on top of their dead fish datasheets. Realistically no one should lose against the current Grey Knights index more than once.

GK are broken. In a bad way. The only thing 10th has inspired me to do is shelve them snd work on a different army. Especially if you look at T Suns. T Suns are how this army should operate. Either drop all point costs by at least 25% or make their teleport land within 6inches and keep the bloated prices. I get it, GW wants to sell other armies so they are “stronger”. Good luck at your tournament!

Love your content man and your love for grey knights. But like all the other content creators, you’re never gonna say bad things about 10th. You guys all rely on it’s popularity to sustain your way of life. I did love your little monologue about loving your underdog army and sticking with them through the bad times. You have a great outlook on the hobby.

Yeap, GW F-up the GK, 2+ saves all around and teleport its no worth for what they lost, no more extra range, and mortal on psy-weapons, no melee options just plain underwhelming melee, psilencer is nerfed to uselesness, to go against high T unit they need tanks wich gets no benefit at all from army rules, DK performance is below average, stratagems are average at best. What's worse is that many of those changes makes no sense, psilencer should be a psyker assault cannon, other marines chapter have it, chaos marines have it, so why in the f.... World psilencer got nerfed and then debuff with the stupid psyker keyword, regular terminator have 5 or more melee option, including the hammer but for GK got striped of all options including the existing profile hammer. Heavily expensive elite army, with over-nerfed debuffed keywords lacking weapons that constantly underperfomed and get stomped by the anti-psyker, high T and overpowered armies.

The dreadnought is disappointing. And if you desire to build him in an artillery config there is no simple way to actually put a missile launcher on the model. If they made the dreadnought a character at least you could enhance him... Just lame. Almost half of the index feels like it was basically a waste on a unit level.