Thank you for sharing all that you do and for your transparency. I have benefitted a lot from your videos over the years

As I mentioned in the previous video on Formic Pro there seems to be a slight interruption in the brood (whether the queen stops laying or the treatment kills off very young brood) but the good new is the hives come back even stronger and explode after the treatment. I'm willing to take that little bit of brood loss/delay if it means healthier bees and fewer mites and the viruses they carry. I've used formic for years here in York County PA... timing and appropriate treatment temperatures are key in my mind to this treatments success.

Watched your video and your findings pretty much mirror mine. It works. I have found the efficacy rate to be about 1 week for a single pad. Full strength formic kills weak queens in my estimation. I quit using full strength years ago when I was using. M.A.Q.S mite away quick strips made by the same company that makes formic pro. Fill strength killed right at 10% of my queens. I anxiously await your final report on formic pro. Enjoy the day.

Only use apilifevar thymol treatment twice per year. Use it at the start of the year just before new brood is capped and then in the late summer after I did all my splits after honey harvest. I put it on once the new queen lays but again before brood is capped. That way only a seven to ten day treatment is needed and not the three weeks. Very cheap and my temperature’s are not too high at those times. Two treatments in each packet so about €4 per colony per year.

So interesting. I’m in Southwestern Ontario and have always used Formic Pro. I use it in May (likely similar temps to what you are having in June). I am a small hobby beekeeper with 15-25 hives over the years. I have had some queen losses but only a couple over the years. I use two strips on my single and double brood boxes. With singles I add an empty box for extra space. I use one strip on my nucs. I’m guessing the difference is, I use inner covers with an upper ventilation.

Great formic video Ian, we in Australia, are on a learning curve, on varroa, thank you both.

Ian, I've been using FP in the one-strip, two applications mode for years. I find it a better outcome for my bees, and have always worried about a double strip application being too strong. Having said that, yes, Tom will be banging his head. He has maintained that a two-strip application is more effective. But your tests are helping to reinforce my views about the one-strip method.

Wow! That is an eye opener! Until last summer I would swear by FP, never saw those issues except when temps got too high. Last year It did not seem to work as well at reducing mite loads and I am not the only one to have seen this. I wonder, and only am speculating here, have they boosted the strength this year after poor results last year??? Big choices to make when I normally do this treatment here in July!

Ian, I run formic twice a year on a few hundred colonies in Ohio. I find good results when they are condensed more, I run two strips on a single what you would term box of bees, feed and Pattie’s the same as you. No issues. Short term open brood loss and very small queen loss % under 5%. I also run them in hot temps, I put a single pad on 300 in near 90degree just last week. I think the heat and condensed hives actually helps it fumigate better. I have never seen dead bees/capped brood like you are experiencing. Definitely some variables to pin down.

I’m so glad you’ve did the test because I haven’t used it for a few years and it might have been improved. You’re also using two boxes were a lot of people will only have one box where the damage would be greater after practically killing my colonies with two strips they advise me to use one strip, but I found verroa in the hives after. This is the middle of summer when beehives should be absolutely thriving. My opinion that stuff should be band and taken off the market.✅

For me - the loss of a queen due to formic only expedites culling her and requeening that colony anyway. Having needed the Formic is enough of a reason for me to replace them. It's always a bummer to have things go opposite of intention however - as more work is #morework!

Hi Ian, hope to see you at EXPO this year. I've used it for 4 years, 2 strips in summer. Oliver uses it in summer and his temps are way high. 1st year had a colony "lose it's mind" had to even put it down. I talked with a friend we had a plan. Now I take the wrapper, open 3 sides put 1 strip in it, the other in an aluminum sheet folded over. Haven't had any queen/brood/bee loss since. I do see the big laying frenzy. Now I don't have a big mite problem I treat with OA ALOT. Talked to them at EXPO and their position is that 3 day heavy hit is needed. So just my couple coppers on the table...

I've always found a 3 deep volume of space had better outcome in colonies.

It has been my opinion for the last few years that there needs to be a slower release formic product. I go in 4 days later and the pads are nearly spent. What I find is if it nukes the brood it gives a decent kill. Heavy price to pay most of the time.

Thank you for the update. I had a large number of bees die after using formic pro last year.

Great content! Put a mike on Carrie, she’s got some interesting things to say.

I came up with the same thing. I treat with one strip. I also noticed older queens take it harder

Ian thanks a million. I used two strips last yr too late not good huge spike in temp which wasn’t in forecast. You have had conversations with Randy Oliver. I’m going to follow his lead almost no queen loss with one strip same efficacy as two. He has experimented high temps +30*C all good. So if weather not cooperative and we have an unannounced heat spike my girls will handle it. The Ontario bee association is getting very close to giving thumbs up on ox slow release to be used during summer honey flow. Thanks a bunch glad you shared getting in hives early. You may get flack who cares your yards. Thanks again Ian.

I would love to be a fly one the line if you and Randy Oliver had a chat about your formic experience.

Perhaps the two strips and the addition of the pollen patties compromised ventilation and thus resulted in queen and brood loss? Adequate airflow is important with formic.

You are courageous to try something new. Good luck on the second formic acid paddy, Ian.

Thanks for your honesty, we won't be trying this particular product

These results with the one pads are consistent with what I’d expect to happen with this type of mite treatment. Seems as though they’ve gone on “survival mode” for a week while the worst of the acid gets worked through the hives, and then they’ll start bouncing back after that. Seems as though that behaviour is similar to responding to a cold snap or some other external event. Super interesting, thanks for sharing.

Balancing out this present loss & the additional labor to recover with overall performance on the relatively light mite loads you've shown in your testing last year as well as the overwhelming success you have overwintering in the shed makes it hard to see the benefit of Formic Pro use. You'll grit your teeth & keep moving I'm sure, but wow. This population draw down right before all this early summer junky weather doesn't seem like a positive~

i remember the same stress levels when i first started using maqs and formic pro.. i wont be surprised if its your go to treatment after this season though. hands down best mite dropper. I am in chicago, so not too far, but I found good success using the one strip at a time over the double strip. with a lot less queen issues through treatment. Thank you for your content!

Thanks for doing this video.

You have quite a few experiments going on this year . We aprreciate your efforts it helps us see the risks and decide what is acceptable for our apiary. I wonder if the formic killed the queens or the bees did her in because her laying was so interrupted . Now to see if the single strip actually killed mites in the capped brood .

Yup it's some potent stuff. I think early spring seems to be the best time as the cold slows the release. Most keepers in my area that use it, do so early-mid March. and one pad.

I banged my head about the way those pads are made.. and placed in the middle instead on top.. with at least two fingers of ventilation space. But I know there will be a video coming.. "slabs of brood.. slabs of brood "

Some strong stuff… I gave it honest try 2 seasons. Lost way to many queens and brood

Türkçe alt yazı bekliyoruz. Sizi beğenerek takip ediyoruz.

I work a lot with formic acid, but on my way. I use 60% formic acid, 25-30ml on sponges, above brood. In next 4-5 days I repeat it again. I use four treatments on every 4th-5th day, and I cover 15-20 days of brood. And there is always some issue with brood and queens. Temperature and moisture are the main factors for good or bad experiences. 👍

I know you wanted a 2nd treatment besides oxalic acid, but not sure what you're gaining if you still have to do 2 treatments of formic. I know you are worried about resistance of a treatment, but it was my understanding is that the oxalic burns the mouth parts off the mites, so it's a physical kill, more than chemical, hard to get resistant to your mouth being burned off. Lol

Youre better off O.A.V every 7 days for 3 treatments. No death, no laying interruption, no temp thresholds.

Very, very informative Ian. Thank you so much for sharing this. If Apivar is not dependable anymore we have to find better solutions to the mites. You have good temps for using Formic compared to southern US but your short season has to be considered. Can they rebound to make a good honey crop? We will see.

Man I wish you'd done your experiment before me. I'm about 5 days ahead. Sault ste Marie ontario area. Just pulled my two strips out after 10 days. Stuff kinda screwed my apairy for the season.. Killed 3 of 8 queens. Followed directions to the t and had highs of 24c. It'll be hard to recover before our short honey season is over.. Frig

A single pad wont kill mites under the cappings!!! That has been my experience and comfirmed by the manufacturer!

Randy Oliver says put the empty package on top of the strip to slow down that first 3 days of formic blast

Would love you to talk with the manufacturer guy on a stream. I didn’t have problems with two strips but I had honey supers on you may need another box on top

Sounds like kite weather. Thanks Ian.

Could you buy Carrie a headlamp..makes grafting so much easier!

Sounds like a tool you can use to slow down a hive a bit to keep them from swarming.

beekeepers in my world do two strips staggered. One strip for ten days, then a second strip for an additional ten days. I had similar disastrous results with Thymol. Apiguard. The formic treatments are similarly harsh whether Formic Pro or Mite Away Quick strips. So far the only treatments I'm defaulting to are various oxalic methods. Dribble, and Swedish dish towels. I have an insect fogger and am going to try a recipe which is OA mixed into glycerine as if you are making towels, then diluted down with water so as to allow fogging. Water not ethanol.

Ian just had a thought. I’ve been securing vsh queens as well. Be interesting if you picked two hives with said queens and don’t treat. If they blew up with mites not as advertised. Just a thought. I will treat my said queens but wondering why I’m doing. I do know something mites destroy hives.

I think you can see how feeding would mess the traffic in the hive. The bees int to go to the lower chamber, better ventilation, but a feeder will keep them up top. So higher mortality.

Have had significantly more success and results with Randy's formic on pads with glycerine than formic pro! Huge difference.

Makes you wonder if the treatment is worth the cost. Turmoil just before the flow. Especially when the mite count is low.

Maybe your lack of open brood is related to your weather. We've had a lot of rain here in the last 3 weeks and I found a large number of my colonies have little to no open brood, only eggs and capped brood. I also suspect if you test your mite load in 2 weeks, you will probably not see a reduction from pre-Formic time (if you tested prior to adding Formic). FormicPro has failed me on multiple applications.

Parabéns pelos vídeos, mas responde aí de que é feito essa alimentação artificial? por favor!

How does the introduction of formic pro compare to your previous introduction of oxalic acid? I think the oxalic acid was not nearly so destructive of your colonies.

You should try putting those stripes on top of the second brood box to keep a distance between the brood and the stripes and temperatures should not be above 20°C.

Servus from germany, formic acid destroys all the young brood and the fresh hatched bees!

You guys can't get a break from the wind. Mother Nature....

A good friend of mine keeps a small flashlight in his pocket for days like this

I like it I use the 1 pad method tho and you have to watch temperatures 😊

Have you ever messed with the mite wipe/dryloc pads method? So much easier.

I don’t think I would use it you showed me all I need to see

It's just opinion but I always thought that you guys have all those problems with formic because those pads are too strong. I know it isn't approved but with our way with sponges in plastic bags on top of the hive and syringes to apply the right dose 3-4 times in a brood cycle we don't have those problems and the treatment is used last 3-4 decades. Here we have today 30 Celsius and l wouldn't think a second should i use it or not. We always end up using it at those temperatures

After reading it says not to feed interior. Exterior. I don't know

I’ve tried it too and followed the directions to a tee. Lost 80% of my queens.. :(. The bees hate it. I used 2 strips.

like 100 Brasil

I am not a fan of formic acid at all. My results are very similar to your losses. One strip 2 times is a good spring treatment. When I pull honey in the summer I use apiguard with great success and I will lose some queens but they were queens that wouldn’t have over wintered anyway, and I would much rather re queen after the flow instead of right before.

Is it actually killing the mites.

But as I know the efficiency of the treatment may be reduced by the feeding because the surface absorbing acid is higher

I think the amitraz(double dose apivar) and oxalic acid is the way to go. I still want to send you a vaporizET just haven’t finished building it. I’ve been so busy and now I’m harvesting first bit of honey. Are you going to treat anymore this time of year with oxalic ?

did you do mite counts before and after? i'm just starting my fifth year and backyard so i don't have your intuition or experience.

Do you plan to do another round on the single application formic pro pads? With the pull back in mind what does that do to your production colonies?

Slovakia

Can or should formic acid be used in the fall, when you are down to two boxes.

Did you mite wash before adding formic?

I would pull the second strip

Buy from randy oliver queens better chance you will made it

When you have to feed bees in June you know it’s the wrong place to be keeping them

Could the losses been due to possible compromised colonies? Due to mite load and virus.

If you bought part for your car that caused your car to fail you will have a claim against company that sold that part. The people who sell this treatment should pay for all the losses.

I hate that stuff just horrible