Open Europe - EU Wargames - Brexit Session (Part 2)

Рет қаралды 7,881

8 жыл бұрын

Пікірлер: 71

@BudFieldsPPTS 8 жыл бұрын

This has been a truly legendary experience. Thank you very much for it. I hope many, many people take the time to view and consider these discussions.

@THX_1138 8 жыл бұрын

Is it just me, or is Nigel Lamont the only reasonable person around that table?

@aglobackwards 8 жыл бұрын

Can someone please explain to me why the Brits completely opened their job market to us (I mean Poles) the moment we joined the European Union, when the other countries didn't??? Obviously that's why so many Poles emigrated to Great Britain and Ireland! Because the market was just completely open and the benefits were great, no requirements for anyone who wanted to come to Great Britain. Many of these people couldn't even speak English, had no idea about the country they were goint to, it used to be reatively "far away", geographically and mentally. Before joining the European Union the UK was really not a destination Poles would choose - Germany or France or Sweden were places people thought of when thinking about working abroad, much closer to home. But those job markets were not completely open as UK from the first day we joined! It was only the UK and Ireland (or so we were told, as I remember clearly). What I am trying to say (I'm no expert though) is the Brits made this desicion. It was obviously not a very foreseeing one, if that's one of the reasons they wnat to leave the EU now. Maybe they needed workers for their economy and were too optimistic? Now they complain,. I really do understand that, I understand why they feel their country has been highjacked a little bit. But I think they should have made Britain less available, they would not have this enourmous immigration now, were people actually STAY in the UK and do not go home after a couple of years. Now after 10 years if they try to tell people "go home" I do not think it's fair. It has become their home and they were practically invited. No one in Poland is happy so many people emigrated and want to stay in the UK and Ireland for the rest of their lives. We wanted them to come back after a couple of years. Now when our economy is in better shape then it was 10 years ago we would really need them back and they would not be unempleyed with no hope or prospects as they were before. I just want to make it clear I never worked in the UK or stayed in the UK longer than a week (I just visited twice). I am writing this from Poland. I just want to know if anyone else wonders why the UK let so many workers from the new EU countries in, with no limits, when they weren't forced to do so, and why they regret it so much now???? I don't think they shoud blame the EU now for that, though I am no fan of the overblown EU mentality myself, not to mention the Euro.

@Ariadne7710 8 жыл бұрын

+aglobackwards 1. The UK believes in free markets and openness and part of that openness was letting people from Eastern Europe come in unhindered. 2. In 2004 the Labour Government wanted to allow as many people from the new EU members to come into the UK to keep wages of the UK citizens low because without immigration wages would have gone up and made British goods uncompetitive. By letting uncontrolled immigration they didn't have to impose wage restrains and irritate the British workforce. 3. One of the main reasons that the UK population wants to leave the European Union is not immigration from Eastern Europe but immigration from the Middle East (Muslim immigration) but they cannot say that because they will be called racists if they do. 4. Another reason is that the UK government has given many of its powers to make laws in the UK and has transferred sovereignty to the EU and that is unacceptable to many UK citizens because when they voted to join the EU it was called the EEC (European Economic Community) which was presented to them as a Trade Organisation not a Political Union and now they are very angry that this is not what they voted for. 5. They are angry because they see that they are not a free and independent country any more and they feel that they did not give permission to any government to give their freedom away but it was done behind their backs. THIS MAKES THEM VERY ANGRY

@aglobackwards 8 жыл бұрын

+Ariadne7710 Thank you! That was very informative! :) I guess I misunderstood the whole immigration issue. I felt the new EU countries were being somewhat "blamed" for the EU-UK crisis and I did not think that was fair, hence the rant. ;-) What you explained makes much more sense. I do fully understand the whole sovereignty issue. Imo, the EU trying to pretend that the nation state is a thing of the past and a generally outdated concept is completely out of touch with reality. Sonner or later all false ideologies fall, this one obviously becoming unmasked already. The idea of hospitality and cooperation between willing nations in Europe is a beautiful one, but imo some basic rules should be in place, so that no one feels taken advantage of (easier said than done, I know). I just hope the whole thing won't become a cause of more serious, political divisions in Europe. We really do need peace, stability and a whole lot of common sense in this little continent right now. P.S. I do have to apologise for my English, esp. in my first post, pretty incoherent. All the more reason to thank you for taking the time to reply! :-)

@bizzleshizzle845 8 жыл бұрын

how spain said "this would give them all wings"....and was worried about this,more or less admitting the EU has clipped the wings of all its members.

@zonko0488 8 жыл бұрын

Very educative, but then again I have feeling coercion rather cohesion is what put EU together, because if not so why so much threat is heaped on UK not to leave the Union. I think came to a point even Lamont had to address that. After such a scenario I guess the only way Brexit will happen is if the Brits have the guts to say yes we can go it alone. Otherwise business as usual even after the referendum.

@JACKSONVILLE1200 8 жыл бұрын

How anyone does not think the euro has been a failure is living in lalala land

@elizabethf1591 8 жыл бұрын

This EU brexit is just a game , .l'm convinced it's all about something else .

@MarkHarper 8 жыл бұрын

Worth watching purely for Lamonts attitude towards Scotland as a region of England... Sorry Britain... Also not getting that everything changes if England is leaving, Scotland becomes the successor state.

@michaelrees2006 8 жыл бұрын

It says it all gets out of EU

@grahepo 8 жыл бұрын

which eu policy/law benefits the UK? Greece, Ireland, Spain, Italy, Portugal have access to the single market and yet their economy had either tanked or is tanking, so is it the eu membership that is driving the UK economy or it's citizens? and how can the eu justify its lavish and luxurious lifestyle when the UK citizens are being told to be austere?!!

@mickhannell3155 8 жыл бұрын

What ever they are on about we Brits still want OUT big time

@RyanMcGillMiddleton 8 жыл бұрын

There are things more important to us Brits than our economy right now.We need to be building 250000 homes a year on an island 1000 miles long by 400 miles wide, which is already well built on. What do you think will happen to my quality of life if we carry on building homes to keep up with the ever increasing mass immigration we have. I'd like to be able to afford my own home in my own country at some point!

@jimiie6167 8 жыл бұрын

+Ryan McGill Middleton You Brits need to learn to think in the big picture. Leaving the EU will make it your lives very much harder.

@jimiie6167 8 жыл бұрын

2e0kmd No I am not. And I do have saying on what is happening in the commission to a certain degree. My government is represented there. But there are a lot of places ordinary people have very little saying in. So it is not that strong of an argument.

@RyanMcGillMiddleton 8 жыл бұрын

+Jimiie Please hold in mind that we have been told every step of the way with the EU, everything we do different to the rest of the EU will cripple us. Thank God we didn't listen to the EU, and did it our way!!!! Simply telling us we will suffer in some abstract way didn't work before and I hope it doesn't work now. Your problems are your problems to deal with. Britain's done being part of the EU as its failing and doesn't even seem to realise it needs a complete overhall from the ground up! Big picture? Is that your way of saying we have some sort of obligation to you? We only joined in the 70s as we were crippled by the debts from liberating you lot. Keep your big picture!

@jimiie6167 8 жыл бұрын

Ryan McGill Middleton All the experts say UK will suffer atleast 10 years from leaving the EU. And it is the EU that gave UK such a growth, You can blame the EU all you want, but you must also admit large part of UK's success is due to the EU..

@jimiie6167 8 жыл бұрын

2e0kmd I don't know, is the EU painful now? :/ But it is your country, you decide :)

@latexcitizenx 8 жыл бұрын

How can Scotland be "the remaining entity" if the only route to EU membership for it now would be, post UK referendum and following another Scottish referendum? There is no prominent leaders in Scotland proposing to attempt to take Scotland out of the UK without a referendum. Scotland is not an "Independent" nation, recently voted to remain in the United Kingdom and never has been a member state of the EU. I hasten to add the major political party campaigning for Scotland to leave the UK was doing so with a policy to keep the Pound and not to enter the eurozone.

@mikesmithrb 8 жыл бұрын

Yes a lot of this is bluster I think. I thought it was kinda telling in the earlier video that we were being told about how it would cause Scotland to break away and join the EU and with great pride they mentioned the Euro currency too and yet later mentioned that the reason the trade deal between the EU and India failed was over Scotch whiskey. The theme being we would not get any trade deal with India for the same reason they didn't. Well if it is genuinely the case that this was the only reason that negotiations broke down as the German guy suggested then surely if Scotland DOES break away from the UK (assuming that the Scottish people support the EU as much as the EU think they do) then that issue over Scotch whiskey would not stand in our way at all? They seem to want to have their cake AND eat it! Their arguments on Scotland just don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny at all as far as I can see and entirely contradictory.

@jukeboxjonnie 8 жыл бұрын

OUT !

@boghead 8 жыл бұрын

We have a layer of foreign european government that we the British people can not hold to account or remove. They have power over our elected sovereign parliament and over our courts. VOTE LEAVE, to regain democracy and accountability to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northen Ireland.