Most piano of the past, also had a different tuning standard A4 was tuned to either 430hz or 435hz. This is in contrast to modern instruments adhering to the standard concert pitch of 440hz.

@@andrewlim300 the bigger difference is that they used different temperaments which in certain keys generally sound more in tune than the modern compromise "let's make all keys equally bad" tuning.

me too

fortepianos are muhc mroe expressive, modenr painos tend to whitewash all the tone colors and sounds for ease of use and volume

Someone commented on another video "The first piano designs were "straight-strung" instruments, that's why we can hear the notes more individually without extra unwanted generated Harmonics alike, the new generation of Pianos which over produce an exaggerated amount of harmonics that for certain Repertoire, are not so "desirable"...........New Piano designers of today such as Steven Paulello...are trying to bring back this "particular old-feature" into the Modern Piano-World......"

Are they restored? Curious if somebody builts it from the scratch authentically correct

Can I come and play some of them?

@@batner of course

@@PooyaRadbon It's near Basel right? It will take me about a year to organize a trip because I don't know how to tell my wife and kids that I'm dropping by Switzerland/Germany border for a weekend by myself.

Almost resembling a cp80 in a way at times

Pleasantly engaging. I could listen to him for two hours straight!

Thanks for the information! Do you know of a video that shows the Streicher, or something with a similar sound? I'd like to know what piano sound Beethoven had in his mind from before he went deaf.

@@philipmcniel4908 Look for the YT channel 'Edwin Beunk Fortepiano Collection'. It discusses and demonstrates Instruments from about 1750 to about 1850, in a chronological series of videos, really well worth watching. And Tom Beghin on 'Beethoven's Pathétique Sonata, Opus 13 and the Back-Check', the YT channel Mark BEELDharing, talks about Streicher and Walter and the differences between them.

Exactly

Well, for what I know, "pianoforte" is used for modern pianos, while "fortepiano" for old pianos like those Mozart/Beethoven used... but I might be wrong.

Different countries (and languages) give different meanings to the two words. In English "fortepiano" means a historical instrument. In another language (German IIRC) it just means a piano!

Jane Austen, who wrote Pride and Prejudice in 1813, remarked on Elizabeth Bennet’s ‘pianoforte’ playing.

The instrument was named by its inventor (in English) "Keyed cimbalom [i.e., harpsichord] with soft and loud." Those dynamics are _piano_ and _forte_ in Italian. Over time, the name was abbreviated interchangeably to _pianoforte_ or _fortepiano_ . In modern parlance, the familiar Steinwegian instrument is formally known as the pianoforte and its lightly-built forerunner as the fortepiano to differentiate them.

I think I’d like piano music more if I heard more of it on the period pianos… more overtones (prefer orchestral usually bc of this)

Wow. One really has to spend some time. I thought shallower key depth allowed less variety in timbre,shaping tone and getting varieties of dynamic and attack or touch. Beeth would have preferred today's big sound.106,79 even op.31 middle period Sonatas I can't imagine on a tinny sounding weak piano bed. I really must buy one!

look at the video on this channel for "mozart's fortepiano", which showcases an earlier piano with the "basoon" pedal.

Presumably not required for the Beethoven concertos with the OAE.

Maybe they never finished it

Update: There are actually a couple videos on YT showing playing with the bassoon pedal engaged. And even the "Turkish" mode with cymbals etc that was an vogue for a while. The bassoon pedal does sound awful, but it also really does sound kinda bassoonish. Now I want to know how that works.

That was my thought as well!

7 Bagatelles Op. 33, 3. Allegretto

I strongly recommend a very brief video by Boris Giltburg called “Piano Technique” where he shows what they meant here.

@@olivleonardo I know what they meant here, what are you trying to say? I hate heavy actions but regardless putting your whole weight into the keyboard is unnecessary. Max volume is really easy to reach on a concert grand.

It is stated in the video that this piano is a copy made in 1989.

unfortunately, in my almost 40 years of experience with original early pianos I must say that very very few piano players when confronted with an antique fortepiano are inspired to careful playing!!

In your opinion, does that make modern pianos closer to or further away from Beethoven's wishes than the pianos of his day?

I feel Beethoven was aware of the evlolution of the piano. Listening to his later paino works seem to suggest that thought.

@@MrNewtonsdog Thank you for your interesting question. First, for clarification, he was born in December 1770 and died in 1827; meanwhile, pianos have evolved as much as our computers over the past 56 years. So as for the first thirty years of his life, I believe in my humble opinion, that the sound of today’s pianos is closer to that desired by Beethoven than that of the pianos he knew in the 18th century.

P E N I $

which ones specifically?

@@batboy5023 all of them except the Moonlight Sonata.

how???@@eottoe2001

Which ones. AMajSonata no.2 needs shallow action perhaps.What others? Certain movements if u go back forth from pf to piano ?

@@MrInterestingthingsyou might not agree but the Moonlight Sonata on the pianoforte of the time is more personal and delicate sound. It is like Beethoven unplugged. It works on the modern Steinway of course in a concert hall, but I like it on the pianoforte of the time. On the other hand, it seems that Chopin wrote for the pianos of our time. Please understand, I'm no scholar on this or have a great ear. My mother haf the great ear for things like this and she has long passed.

I agree 100%.

Because the order is arbitrary, it doesn't matter if you say "soft and loud" or "loud and soft".

Because they're different instruments. clavichord > fortepiano > pianoforte (piano)

@@TonyBittner-Collins Only to some they're different. Historically, both terms were used interchangeably to refer to the same historical instrument that later evolved into the modern piano (which only a few cultures/languages/countries still call a pianoforte).

@Persun_McPersonson Actually, plenty of people who are period instrument makers, organologists, and early music performers such as myself. I play the recorder, renaissance/baroque traverso, and viol.

@@TonyBittner-Collins "Some" does not exclude "plenty". I'm not saying it's wrong to make such a distinction, but that it's also not more correct to do so.

oh shut up

Wrong.

Not helped by the equal temperament tuning.

They're different instruments though. clavichord > fortepiano > pianoforte (piano)

@@TonyBittner-Collins That is not an accurate representation of piano development. The clavichord has no place on your timeline. I explained in detail my reasoning. I don't really see any convincing counter-argument here. Again there are thousands of historic pianos. Using the same word flipped to vaguely differentiate between modern pianos and old ones is silly and makes no sense. Like I said, some 1830 pianos are near indistinguishable to the modern grand. What do you call those?

@MegaMech Actually, it is. The fortepiano's mechanism derives from that of the clavichord as its strings are struck, not plucked like the harpsichord. - Fortepiano: 18th century (straight-strung, no metal frame or bracing, no pedals but hand stops or knee levers). - Pianoforte: 19th century onwards.

​@@TonyBittner-Collins This alleged similarity does not equate to derision. The clavichord's tangent lifts the strings and contains a very primitive mechanism, it's quite different. In the early days of the piano, the Italians predominantly called it the harpsichord with loud and soft whereas the British soon after (iirc) just called it the piano or pianoforte/fortepiano. There was never a standardized name, people just called it whatever. Cristofori was well acquainted with both the harpsichord and the clavichord. To conclude that the piano is derived from one or the other and not both is not logical. I would go so far as to say it's just a different instrument, inspired perhaps, but to generate a family tree of keyboard instruments that claims the piano having birthed from the clavichord is facetious at best. > 18th century (straight-strung, no metal frame or bracing, no pedals but hand stops or knee levers). This is not accurate. Cast-iron frames were invented in 1825. The technology did not take off until the ~1850s. Pianos were not overstrung until the 1860s. I don't know where you got 'no pedals' from, but various pianoforte's had pedals since the 1770s. This is why I propose we follow the academic reference material in The New Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians; the authority on music. Piano history is not black and white. The year 1800 did not roll around and suddenly we had the Steinway concert grand. Each piano maker used differing technologies and inventions. New technologies generally take around ten years to reach the market. Like I say, we can find a piano from 1830 very similar to our modern concert grand, and we can find pianos similar to that of like 1795 in the sense that it's missing a lot of the features we expect; double-escapement. So we can't do as you suggest because it's not that simple. To say that every piano in the 1800s is straight-strung, has a cast-iron frame, and pedals is simply not true. Not that straight-stringing should even be considered as a primitive versus modern technology both methods have advantages and disadvantages. Same goes for the Baroque era, we simplify reality when we purport that the era ended when Bach died in 1750. This is wholly inaccurate as Bach was among the last musicians following Baroque traditions. Most others had been following classical/galant styles since 1720. I don't mind saying that Baroque era ended in 1750 because that's easy, so long as we know the situation is more complicated than that.

He did specify a lot of technical details to which he wasn’t indifferent and that a fortepiano makes sense of.

@@olivleonardoyeah. When I thought about it again, he obviously wasn't deaf his whole life and that is the sound he knew. So he composed for it by memory after hearing damage

No

Oh, man....WW fan? 🤨

This isn’t a school assignment. No one is taking points off for using too few words.

Beethoven didn't compose in whole beat. Whole beat wasn't even invented until about 1970.