OUR BIG Challenges with Buying in Portugal (Episode 5)

Рет қаралды 9,930

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Expats and Travelers! I'm Josh from ExpatsEverywhere and this is the Vertical Community Venture. We are trying to find a property in Porto, Portugal, buy it, renovate it, move in, and live in it. This is our 5th episode in this series.
In this episode I talk about the challenges that have arisen that have slowed me down from buying a place. I want to make you aware of what my challenges are so that you can set the right expectations if you're going to try to do something similar.
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Josh and Kalie left the US for a life abroad in 2009 and haven't looked back. They have lived in Spain, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, and are currently in Portugal. Yes, they realize they only moved to countries starting with the letter "S" until they spoiled that streak with their move to Portugal. Follow ExpatsEverywhere as we aim to get information to you through expat interviews, city breakdowns, expat life, travel, vlogs, and more.
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Пікірлер: 74

@JonMagno 2 жыл бұрын

You’ll eventually find it, Josh and Kalie. Great job.

@MarthaReynolds 2 жыл бұрын

Such a well-planned venture, Josh. And this post is very informative. Thank you.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Martha. I really appreciate reading this positive message this morning. 🙏 We're trying to go about this the smartest that we can. We believe that we have a good team. Time will tell. - Josh & Kalie

@DanLee1969 2 жыл бұрын

It's a very interesting proposition. I'm looking to make a move to Portugal myself. I was a carpenter in my younger years, and have built my own house by myself, pounding every nail alone. I'm currently into newer building sciences that have changed a lot since I built. Not having to go it alone would be nice. I'll follow this playlist carefully, so I hope you keep updating it. Best of luck.

@terrisokolow7796 2 жыл бұрын

Hope your search for the building you need is successful!

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! - Josh & Kalie

@tatianaschoenfield9819 2 жыл бұрын

Don’t fall for “non-negotiable”. If you want it, give your offer. The message “non-negotiable” is already a form of negotiation… How about a horizontal community where you have smaller units/houses connected through a courtyard or garden…

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

😉 - Josh

@sagmahi 2 жыл бұрын

I absolutely love this vertical community idea and all the charming (& practical) details going into the building. Looking forward to all the new content and videos about this project. You guys are doing excellent work!

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome, thank you! We appreciate the feedback and positivity. Let's see if we can make it happen. - Josh & Kalie

@GDoggProductions 2 жыл бұрын

I remember having dinner with you one evening and you were talking about your renovating ventures In your home country 🤙☺️ I'm so excited for you to be doing this now in Portugal Sounds like an awesome challenge 🍿🎥

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you, G! We've moved several houses since that conversation and we have 2 more on the market right now with 1 under contract and another that's got an offer on it. 😁 It's time to try this thing in Portugal. Thanks for the support. Definitely been a challenge. - Josh & Kalie

@christineellison9385 Жыл бұрын

PS. I’ll be in Porto the beginning of October.

@christinedelfino5322 Жыл бұрын

What a nightmare, we bought our home in Italy as cash buyers. Easy what you are doing is crazy complicated. Good luck with that Hat’s off to you. Wow 😂❤

@kameelaheverglow 2 жыл бұрын

Hey guys, I've been following your journey and all I can say is...I feel ya. We've been looking for something ourselves down here in Lisbon and it's been in-ter-es-ting. 😁

@tamaramadelin4831 2 жыл бұрын

We just bought a house in Torres Vedras and love it there...Hidden gem, or so we think!😉

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for following a long. Good to hear from you, Prachel. When are you visiting Porto? - Josh & Kalie

@royking7298 2 жыл бұрын

I appreciate seeing the update on your project. I am still searching for a place to buy. I have one other person willing to invest with me also, and it is interesting to see your 'process.'

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Roy! We hope you and your investment partner are able to find something as well! We're getting closer. - Josh & Kalie

@paulcatarino2209 2 жыл бұрын

I understand that in real-estate location is always key and you have your mind set on living in Porto, but in Portugal its almost easier to find a small abandoned (Ghost) village than it is to find the building your looking for. Bringing back to life an abandoned village would reinforce the concept and ideals you have for the like minded community and have the added bonus of being self sufficient (water wells, solar energy, farming etc).

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

We understand what you mean, Paul, but at the same time, it would take 1000s of make a difference in a village and it would take years to have a shot at getting the culture right. What you're talking about as cool as it might sound isn't what we're looking for. - Josh & Kalie

@rebeccagutierrez1960 2 жыл бұрын

Everything's negotiable! Just start finding every defect you can in the building and watch how negotiable it becomes. I would start working on anything and everything that has to do with the inside. Then with time you work your way out. Oh, and I would go through with it... with the promissory note, however I would proceed only if I really knew that I could get that mortgage loan. I purchased 7 properties in my life and I'm living in my 7th property right now here on the island of Puerto Rico but I've never applied for a mortgage unless I'm totally sure that I can get approved. Josh one more thing, I would start small and not get too many people into the group, test it with the smaller group and then in the future go bigger. But always start smaller. It's less risky. But I feel Portugal is a great market for real estate. Good luck!

@tamaramadelin4831 2 жыл бұрын

I agree...Too many people, too complicated!

@ppietrap3876 2 жыл бұрын

Each country has its own way of doing things and perspectives about business. If you try to do things the way you are used to you might get frustrated or people might even start ignoring you.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

You would think but maybe not. Not here. These people don't seem to be in any rush although something seems funny about their number. We're likely going to try to get the house for cash (whatever house) and then get a renovation loan. We'll know our strategy when we know the property. I'm not bringing in anyone else yet, but if the property is 10 units, there will be units to "sell" and therefore, other people will be involved on the backend. We don't want to bring any additional voices in right now because we've got enough as is. Thanks for wishing us luck. - Josh & Kalie

@Yasin_Affandi 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing this wonderful video. All d best to u guys n your project partners.

@Yasin_Affandi 2 жыл бұрын

D challenges r very complex. It's like trying to fix all d pieces of a jigsaw puzzle into a complete picture, manageable, but tricky, sometimes it's like walking in a maze. Have u thought of any alternative plan, instead of buying a building, is there a way to secure a piece of land, start from scratch to build a new property n fix everything u guys want in d master plan. Maybe, in that way, u guys can just focus what u want on manage d project from d beginning. It's always easier said than done. In d midst of looking d ideal building, look out for idle land for sale, suitable for a new small building that can accommodate all your partners.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, brother! - Josh & Kalie

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

You're right. It's been like a jigsaw puzzle of sorts. The next episode we certainly get into that. - Josh & Kalie

@Yasin_Affandi 2 жыл бұрын

@@ExpatsEverywhere U r welcome. Really hope that u guys will get d best property for your project. First generation time management always work, do a checklist, n tick d right boxes each time u guys visit a potential property. 😁

@farmerthd 2 жыл бұрын

Some of the same challenges we have looking in Lisbon. Video is really helpful

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful! We're still moving forward! - Josh & Kalie

@johnjohn-sg1gt 2 жыл бұрын

you left some clues and I know where your ideal area is!! I also like that area a lot, but unfortunately, nothing was available when i was looking. one note, you should go there in the evening...there is a "seedy" side on a few streets there. also saw a couple cars that were broken into on 2 different occasions.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

😁 We've said it in other episodes. - Josh & Kalie

@jonmaher2531 2 жыл бұрын

Seems like a nice couple doing a pretty good job providing subscribers information about life and travel in Portugal. As it relates to this real estate venture, Josh is in way over his head! Does not know what he's doing or what he's talking about. Ten years of real estate investing?? I would love to hear exactly how much money he has invested and what his role was in those ventures. He really should focus on finding something his family can afford on their own, so as not to financially hurt himself and others.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

This comment is going on the fridge. #motivation #staytuned - Josh

@jonmaher2531 2 жыл бұрын

@@ExpatsEverywhere That's a good response. Thought you needed a villain protagonist to create some channel drama/excitement. Your welcome. LOL

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Now that's what I'm talking about. Thanks for looking out. - Josh

@ciprianoneves7246 2 жыл бұрын

Do NOT think about adding floors or adding to the side. Forget about that 100%.

@BreadTherian666 2 жыл бұрын

Out of topic but i went to porto last week and ate at "caralhau", cod fish restaurant. Besides the hilarious name, it was very good! Check it out!

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing. - Josh & Kalie

@trave7644 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Josh and Kalie. Still in Lisbon and will be leaving soon. I am enjoying Lisbon, the food I mean; I dont know if I said, but I went to Caldas, and several other areas. I am not sure I want to move to Portugal after having seen the places I saw over the last two months. Also I went to several neighborhoods in Lisbon, like Areeiro, and it felt like a concrete jungle, and I just could not imagine living there. Sure, it is close to Lisbon, but I just could not see how I would hop on the metro every time I want to eat something interesting (I am sure others will there are restaurants in Areeiro!). Restaurants were few and far between in that area. It is amazing how some rave about it, but I failed to see it. At any rate, I am still torn. And, one more thing: the more and more I walk on the side walks, I am realizing I could never do that for a long time; it is so hard to walk on it. I see people slipping and falling even on days when it is not raining.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry to hear that things aren't working out apart from the food but I guess it's good that you learned that on this trip. Did we read it right that you're no longer that interested in Portugal at all? - Josh & Kalie

@trave7644 2 жыл бұрын

@@ExpatsEverywhere I dont know. I am really torn. I have to wait and see, if I change my mind. I still have not ruled it out completely. I am also looking into Italy, but that is even more complicated, as you know. Will still be watching your channel. thanks Josh

@camilofarkas6965 2 жыл бұрын

I just wish that this was in Aveiro or Cascais to be all in with my wife. Keep it up Josh! 🏡

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Camilo! You want something like this in Aveiro or Cascais?! Those are a ways apart. Have you found a building you like in either? - Josh & Kalie

@camilofarkas6965 2 жыл бұрын

@Expats Everywhere Yes! I have explore a lot of towns trough the gold coast inc lisboa and porto, and Aveiro and Cascais are our top favorites to live, they have all we are looking for, currently living in Cascais loving it, however it is difficult to be able to afford a T2 around here, the only way is by renovating, Aveiro is beautiful super livable and way more affordable, still on our research and renting before applying for the mortgage. 🌊 ☀️ 💨 🏄🏼‍♂️ 🏡 🇵🇹

@uttarabansal1302 2 жыл бұрын

Hi how is growth in percentage for real estate

@ZahraElMaarifa 2 жыл бұрын

صباح الورد والياسمين بالتوفيق 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻❤❤🤝🤝🤝

@quinosonic82 2 жыл бұрын

As an almost-architect and one of the potentially interested (though I'm not yet in Pt) I will point out that IMHO you are getting something wrong: You're talking about 1 T1 and 3 T2 at 47 + 60/80/100 m²... anything beyond 65 m² is way out of reasonable T2 surface, specially in Europe. Gigantic houses/flats might be a good idea in the USA but not in the EU, where the seller will charge you for the square meters you can fit into the lot (not even for the existing building, wich you might consider accesory to the land). Again, just my humble opinion.

@ppietrap3876 2 жыл бұрын

I think the "problem" is not the floor area they wish for. The "problem" is to find an old building where you can achieve a new floor plan with pleasant big rooms.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

These are the minimum requirements. If the 100 m2 is actually 130 m2. That's okay. If the 60 m2 is actually 80 m2, the guy is okay with that too. For the sake of this video, I didn't want to get into the weeds with that. I'm not sure what you mean by "anything beyond 65 m3 is way out of reasonable T2 surface." - Josh & Kalie

@ppietrap3876 2 жыл бұрын

@@ExpatsEverywhere I believe what he is trying to say is that a normal T2 would not be much bigger than 65 m². Truth be told, if you want something much bigger than that in the city you would have to pay a lot for it... and probably it would not have much bigger bedrooms.

@quinosonic82 2 жыл бұрын

@@ExpatsEverywhere it means 65 m² is enough to fit a nice two bedroom flat, with 2 bathrooms. Say 15 more for stairs+lift and you end up with an 80 m² footprint. So, your building 'program' seems oversized (m² aren't free) and also unbalanced (you are piling different footprints) //// The owner of the plot/building in a compact city will charge you for a % of the total m² you could build (based upon local regulations) + what is already built - what you will have to demolish to build that potential surface... That's why you're having trouble to find something in your budget IMHO (if the plot fits 100 m² x4 levels you should be building/renovating something near 95% of that... say 380m²). /// I hope this helps you

@ppietrap3876 2 жыл бұрын

Be careful if you wish to increase the number floors or extend the building, because that will require architectural plan approval by the Câmara before any work can start, which depending on complexity can take sometime (no idea how good is Porto’s bureaucracy), delaying things. It also might not allow you to build all the extra area that you wished for - usually for each street there is already an established maximum height and building volume which you could check beforehand at the Câmara. As for the "non-negotiable”, though it could be just a strategy the fact is that in Portugal a lot of times "non-negotiable" means they won’t accept a significantly lower. It’s not unusual to see properties on the market for years, waiting for someone to match the price. And with today’s market where property prices continue to rise and with relative high demand, there is a good chance they will not lower the price. You definitely should look at properties outside real estate agents. Many times people will advertise them by themselves, and sometimes even do it while also having the property listed in different real estate agents.

@rebeccagutierrez1960 2 жыл бұрын

... And the thing is many locals know that foreigners are moving in and buying properties so it's true they might not want to lower their price. But you still can negotiate!

@ppietrap3876 2 жыл бұрын

@@rebeccagutierrez1960 It’s not just a thing with foreigners, in Portugal things work differently... A lot of times there is no rush to sell immediately... Even the formal signing of all the paperwork can take weeks, sometimes months.

@Hdio99 2 жыл бұрын

@@rebeccagutierrez1960 sometimes its more complicated than you think, I read your other comment, and sometimes every country has its reality...here I know a lot of properties that are 5/10/ 20/ 30 years for sale because below certain price they dont sell, and its very common when buldings or properties are from heritance and big families and if they are older and live well and they simply dont care , because they have several...I am against I even think the state or law should intervene in this case because sometimes this buildings inside cities become ugly with time and a pity that its an area that is not habitable... there are cases and I have on my family that the ritcher woman does not agree to sell bellow certain price and the other brother they want to sell with offers that they already have and it never went through talking about more than 10 years now...and the brothers should put the one not in agreement in court ( and there is law that obligates her to buy at the price of the offer so that the brothers receive their part, but because they are brothers they dont go to court, expenses play a big part to I think , its my wife mother and their brother they are all in the 80 more or less... so you see...

@edesouza2279 2 жыл бұрын

@@Hdio99 I have Portuguese neighbours here in Canada who owns or inherited properties in Portugal and are going through similar issues. One sister is in her 80’s, another brother who has since pass so the brother’s share went to his son or grandson. The 85 year old sister said the cost of the paperwork with lawyers etc outweighs the value of the property. The problem is going to get bigger for when the sister dies, her share in this property goes to her six children and there the saga mushrooms into an impossible situation.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Recently, Town Hall here has been taking 6-8 months as previously stated in a different episode of this series. Thanks for watching and commenting. Thanks to everyone for the conversation in this thread and keeping it civil and productive. - Josh & Kalie

@edesouza2279 2 жыл бұрын

I am thinking if you were to find a place with a larger square footage you may be able to get the financial institution to finance the additional units as a income stream. You can either rent any additional units as long term rentals or as Airbnb. I have never used Airbnb because as a senior woman I am reluctant to say in a place that is not a hotel. I for one would love to stay in an Airbnb managed by you guys. Think of all your followers who would love to stay in your Airbnb/rental unit🤔

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Hi! We're not really interested in doing an AirBnb at the moment. 😊 We want to have a primary residence first and also don't want to live in a house with AirBnb guests flowing in and out. If we had the money, I've already seen a building that would be great for an AirBnb rehab project. Thanks for writing us. - Josh & Kalie

@leslieannehill6880 2 жыл бұрын

We would like to hear more about your project in person. We are in Porto this week and would love to buy you a coffee.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

We got your email. Thanks, Leslie! - Josh & Kalie

@christineellison9385 Жыл бұрын

I’m interested in the investment venture. How do I contact you? Thanks! 😊

@ExpatsEverywhere Жыл бұрын

Hey Christine. It's good to hear from you. Thanks for emailing me. - Josh & Kalie

@tinglestingles 2 жыл бұрын

Adding more floors? I immediately thought... years of Portuguese bureaucracy. 2023...2024..2025? Good fortune if you can make that work

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Right now Porto's townhall is taking 6-8 months to approve plans. - Josh & Kalie

@jeffbeats420 2 жыл бұрын

Good electrical, plumbing, sound/heat insulation in a building that has not already been renovated; that is a pretty tall order in Portugal. Non negotiable aka you're a foreigner so we think we can get more money out of you than the building is worth. My flat rents for 2-3x what a similar sized unit in my neighborhood rents for that hasn't been updated in 50+ years. I see this inflated value in property for sale around here as well.

@ExpatsEverywhere 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Jeff, our goal is to fix the electrical, plumbing and insulation. That's why we want a rehab project so we can rectify those things. We do not believe we can find a place that has those boxes ticked so we're going to tick them ourselves. Regarding the non-negotiable, they told the agents that before we saw it and before they showed it. It had nothing to do with being a foreigner. In fact, there were two Portuguese guys that put in an offer on that property under asking price but more than we were going to offer and they were rejected with no counter offer. - Josh & Kalie